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[ProgramGamer]

The amount of disrespect Konami is capable of is staggering. Why would anyone work for these guys?

[gimymblert]

everything bad is budget cuts, guys!

Of course  , this one is evident though, it was a neat way to save animation, and kojima do love it run on cutscene, and this game had some, and those are expensive to make unlike other technique we won't discuss. Would have been as long and as boring for people who don't care though.

[Dragonmaw]

the secret is that a lot of the things that are bad are also because kojima is all over the place and his games are often complete messes

fun, ridiculous messes, but messes nonetheless.

don't let your hatred of konami blind you to kojima being super inconsistent and weird re: design and writing. metal gear solid 2 and 4 should be self-evident to the fact that kojima is always a mixed bag.

i say this as a person who greatly enjoys MGS. but not all of the shittiness in MGSV is budget. some of it is just vintage kojima.

[s0]

don't let your hatred of konami blind you to kojima being super inconsistent and weird re: design and writing. metal gear solid 2 and 4 should be self-evident to the fact that kojima is always a mixed bag.

thats why i like him tho. flawed but interesting >>>>> well crafted but boring

also the actual u know GAME part of mgs5 is excellent, can't repeat this often enough. i never expected the story to not be a mess (or at least messy).

[gimymblert]

@dragonmaw
Yes but you can clearly see what is a mess because something is missing from the usual vs mess because uncontrolled creativity.

The lack of building up, the lack of animation, when there was before (old game and this one, like the first contact with skullface and the skull troop) is troubling. It would have move to another mess entirely.

At the same time its acquired taste, I wouldn't say it's more a mess than usual game story who are trainwreck in more way than people want to admit.

MGS 2 is high on my list of good stuff though, I don't mind the occasional melodrama or stupid vampire, but all make sense in the meta. It's just unorthodox style (mixing different level of realism and fantasy, goof and seriousness), and he do a lot of thing that westerner absolutely hate for no good reason, and still happen to be playful with that hate.

[s0]

I don't mind the occasional melodrama or stupid vampire

i love all of that shit. more campy vampires (campires??) pls

[Dragonmaw]

as i get further along in mgs5, i'm actually liking the open world less and less. it feels less deliberate, more time-sink. once you get the silenced tranq rifle and d-dog, 80% of the missions become trivial thanks to wallhacks and sleep darts. the only interesting bits i'm getting into, funnily enough, are the set pieces

controversial opinion: i think now with 20+ hours in mgs5 that peace walker did it better. more focused, better set design (since it wasn't open world), better story, better characters. also, why the fuck does mgs5 not have co-op. i should be able to call a friendly player in via buddy support goddamnit.

mgs5's problems don't stem from budget, they stem from kojima working with a pretty new design concept (for him). i can honestly lay most of the problems with mgs5 at the feet of the open world design, from the weak layouts of (most, not all) of the game locations to msot of the main missions being really tepid. ground zeroes, weirdly enough, did a much better job with this design than mgs5 did, probably because it was constrained to a single base with no MB integration.

i still like it because i like all mgs games, but honestly, i think it might be one of the weakest mgs games, whereas PW is one of the strongest (mgs2 forever #1)

however, FOB invasions are amazing and i love them so much, what a great GREAT addition

[gimymblert]

I don't agree, the open world start strong, given we know the act 3 was cut, you can see they are tying it up in a rush, and it's typical stuff if you have seen the side of game dev, you spot those things clearly.

There is other legitimate problem though.

Peacewalker had a smoother dev, that's why.

[Alec S.]

Man, I disagree about the design.  I think there's some really cool level design in the bases and such.  I love the messy stealth that the open world necessitates, since you can approach an area from any side.   This, along with Ground Zeroes, are basically my ideal Stealth Games (although, yeah, like with all MGSs, the game gives you some really overpowered tools that can let you spoil the fun for yourself).  And all the little side-objectives within missions (not just the codified side-objectives, but also things like grabbing resources and fultoning soldiers) adds a nice incentive to take risks.

Also, the lack of animation during story sequences is nothing new for MGS, it's just that you only notice it now that it's no longer explained away by the Codec.  Remember how old MGS games would start a cutscene, and then mid way through the characters would decide that they should start talking to each other over walky talky instead?

Like, yeah, there was definitely stuff cut from the game, but I think a lot of that is Kojima's eyes being bigger than his stomach and forgetting how to plan for frugality.  The game had a really big budget, and is just dripping in production value everywhere except for where it isn't.

Like, MGS 2 is still my favorite Metal Gear game, but this is honestly so far a close second, and I like this as a Stealth Game more than any other MGS.

[Dragonmaw]

yeah, i'm just being harsh on mgs5. i still like it, i just dunno if i like it as much as i would've if it had developed a greater focus. there's a lot (so much) filler, not to mention the game being actually a filler game, completely unnecessary plot-wise.

still worth getting, still worth playing, like all mgs games. it just suffers sometimes.

[s0]

as i get further along in mgs5, i'm actually liking the open world less and less. it feels less deliberate, more time-sink. once you get the silenced tranq rifle and d-dog, 80% of the missions become trivial thanks to wallhacks and sleep darts. the only interesting bits i'm getting into, funnily enough, are the set pieces

1. the open world is not a gtasscreed open world and the game is obviously not meant to be played in this vein. just think of it as a bunch of nonlinear levels (bases) that are geographically linked. also whats the difference between set pieces and missions?

2. maybe instead of using the cheesiest build try experimenting more?

from the weak layouts of (most, not all) of the game locations

nope. the base layouts are good. most of them are interestingly structured and have multiple entry points and myriad paths through them. its good nonlinear level design.

i will agree about the mission design tho. many of the most interesting aspects (such as communication between bases) are extremely underused in the missions and theres a lot of filler.

HOWEVER, this game is like the only AAA game in a million years that actually takes big risks with a big budget and for that alone it needs to be celebrated. so what if it's not perfect? it's still great and id rather have one mgs5 than 5 tepid and safe asscreed or GTA sequels.

btw im not coming at this as an mgs fan (i *like* the games but don't love them) and i went into it without a lot of specific expectations.

[s0]

oh shit, watch me GET MAD AT VIDEOGAMES ON THE INTERNET 

[gimymblert]

it's the name of the thread and the forum lol

[s0]

btw i disagree about level design in peace walker. the monster hunter esque map structure always felt awkward to me in combination with mgs mechanics. mgs3 works much better bc the maps are larger.

[Alec S.]

The bit where Huey runs past you to shoot Skull Face and then goes "I did it!  Reveeeeenge!" after Big Boss and Kaz walk away was the best.

[Türbo Bröther]

I've finally started to play this and it's been really enjoyable bumbling my way around the Afghan countryside like a mix of Inspector Clouseau and Leon the Professional. If they had a cocaine white chopper that had Children Of the Grave as its theme song (thank you custom soundtracks).

I thought that the prologue was proper tense, crawling around under hospital beds whilst soldiers hunt for you and the first thing that come to mind when that big guy bursts on to the scene like someone set Mr. X from Resident Evil 2 on fire was oh shit, it's Volgin! And that kid turning up totally has to be Psycho Mantis. I mean, he's got psychic powers and is wearing a gas mask how obvious can you get. I am totally out of touch with the Metal Gear timeline but that should match up shouldn't it?

What exactly do you get from downloading your [i|Ground Zeroes[/i] save anyway?

[Lokai]

Damn, you are all a lot farther than me in MGS:V haha. I've been trying to play it quite a bit since release and I think I'm at around 40-50 hours, but I just unlocked FOB stuff and I'm only on mission 22. I have been spending a lot of time exploring places, capturing animals, and doing side missions though. So far I'm definitely liking the open world stuff and most of the story bits have been really disappointing. I wish there were more MGS Snake Eater types of moments in here, but the only story bits I'm getting feel more like MGS4, which I strongly disliked.

[s0]

uh so is it bad that i feel sorry for skullface more than anything? this game's tone is really odd

[Türbo Bröther]

I had fun tonight clearing out an entire base for recruits. Took out coms and AA radar to cause a general state of unrest, CQC all the snipers then just sort of was at the opposite end of the base that everyone is looking at whilst working my way around incapacitating whoever is at the rear whilst they all panic. Then Fultoned the lot. Man, I didn't even need to try everything just kinds happened.

[s0]

ya i think the game plays best if you don't reload checkpoints constantly and just improvise when things don't go your way. i was annoyed by the lack of mid-mission checkpoints  at first but now i understand what theyre trying to do. I would even be in favor of reloads costing GMP or a similar mechanic (restarting the mission completely would be free).