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Richard Kain
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« Reply #100 on: June 09, 2011, 12:16:43 PM »

Yep but it's like the ds vs the psp, strong brand, cheap game, good enough graphics. What i mean is they are in direct competition on the same market, apple update hardware way more frequently too and is actually portable.

For the purposes of comparing the iPad directly to the features of the WiiU, this is irrelevant.

The iPad by itself will likely still cost more than the entire WiiU does at launch.

As appealing as the iPad is, it isn't really going to be in direct competition with the WiiU. The WiiU is a dedicated games console, and it's touchscreen controller won't operate independently from the console. The iPad is a general purpose, portable device. Despite some of the comparisons, they are two very different devices, with different uses.

And if you really want a touchscreen + television gaming experience, are you going to drop $600+ on an iPad + AppleTV combo that few developers are going to support? Or are you just going to buy a WiiU? (that you know will be backed by all of Nintendo's first-party development, bare minimum)
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ham and brie
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« Reply #101 on: June 09, 2011, 12:32:46 PM »

I would love to see more software that got the devices I already own working together more, but realistically there aren't ever going to be many iPad apps that would make use of the touch screen tablet + TV concept like Wii U would, simply because developers will know with Wii U that the tablet is what you take for granted as being part of the platform and people will be expecting it to be used.
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filosofiamanga
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« Reply #102 on: June 09, 2011, 12:42:59 PM »

In the end, every console sucess depends on two things: the games and pirating the games, and... console price.

IF Wii U gets nice console exclusives that really kick ass and one or two big sleeper hits, I think It will be sucess.

I would love a FF 7 remake for that console but I know I'm dreaming.  Sad Sad Sad
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Μarkham
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« Reply #103 on: June 09, 2011, 03:58:56 PM »

If this thing only allows one pad controller, I hope it at least supports a full four Wiimotes in addition to the pad, allowing for 5-player games.  A D&D-style game where the player with the pad is the DM could be pretty cool.
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« Reply #104 on: June 09, 2011, 04:08:41 PM »

My primary problem with this new controller is that I personally don't want to constantly have to look down from the tv screen to the controller and back up again. If a game is designed properly, you never look down at the controller in your hands -- your fingers know the correct positions.

I think the Wii U is definitely not aimed at total immersion. The original "Project Cafe" name was perfect because it implied casual "enjoy yourself with friends" gaming over hardcore, "experience what war with aliens would really be like" gaming.
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Inanimate
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« Reply #105 on: June 09, 2011, 06:28:15 PM »

If this thing only allows one pad controller, I hope it at least supports a full four Wiimotes in addition to the pad, allowing for 5-player games.

It does indeed, so no worries.
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William Broom
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« Reply #106 on: June 09, 2011, 08:04:41 PM »

The problem with this screen-in-the-controller thing is that it's really offering a solution to something that didn't need fixing in the first place.

So did the DS, and the Wii, and for that matter, the iPhone.
Yeah, and guess what? My DS and Wii are both gathering dust because I never use them. I've never played a Wii game that wouldn't have been better off without the motion sensing angle. It's not just a matter of "Why not try something new?" because this controller gimmickry actually hampers good game development when every game has to be designed around some sort of waggling/scribbling/dual-screen mechanic.

It's like, imagine how much the film industry would go downhill if someone started promoting 3D screens and suddenly every director has to film his movie in 3D... oh wait...
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unsilentwill
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« Reply #107 on: June 09, 2011, 08:25:59 PM »

There's an odd hatred for trying new things going on here. That's no good for an independent community. Portables, 3D games, stereoscopic displays, and touch screens have so many detractors here it's astounding. The only thing that they have in common to me is that they aren't the SNES/Genesis. Some of you were happy with how games were, which is fine, but to complain that new technology allowing for new interfaces and experiences is a bad thing for everyone is confusing to me.

There's some cynicalness that I guess I understand where with as much potential as the tech allows there's no way it will be put to use in the way that it should in the first few years, but the reaction to failure is pure anger. New and strange thinking should be welcomed, not dismissed and ridiculed. I'm surprised Nintendo went for the 3DS after the hate for the Virtual Boy, but I'm glad because of the new method to not only the gaming crowd but to all digital mediums helping 3D add to experiences in new ways. How does it hamper game development? The games you want already exist, the games I want are based on new tech and depend on new technology.

Wii U is weird in a way that I didn't expect, and that's exactly what I wanted. I had no idea how they were going to top the Wii. It turns your living room into a giant DS, cool. With the popularity of the DS it will sell and designers will hopefully learn to make games based around touch controls. Though in a way I don't think its not weird enough. Touch controls, as most of us have noticed aren't really all that different (yet) than using a cursor. The Nintendo mentality of trying strange things like the 3DS, Wii, and Vitality Sensor get me excited for the expansion of what video games can be. Expanding into touch beyond rumble, more effective 3D projection, smell systems, who knows.

I'm not going to buy it if there is not software that was made for the hardware just because of hype, but I'm going to give it a shot. Frankly the Wii hasn't been worth the money until Skyward Sword, the only game that couldn't be done without motion control at its core. And it's that kind of design that shows how "innovative" systems become worth it, which is something we as independant game designers should remember.
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PowRTocH
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« Reply #108 on: June 09, 2011, 08:45:27 PM »

New and strange thinking should be welcomed, not dismissed and ridiculed.

the iPad is actually about a year old
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AshfordPride
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« Reply #109 on: June 09, 2011, 10:21:36 PM »

There's an odd hatred for trying new things going on here.

Guys, you have to stop hating things that you find awful and detestable!  It is simply unbecoming!  

Quote
That's no good for an independent community.


Yeah, we should just embrace everything.  That's a great way for an artistic community to function, taking in everything and anything with open arms and a welcome eagerness to praise it as the greatest thing ever.  No, what's healthy for a community is for things to fail and people to make mistakes, and for people to be mature enough to be able to make these tough choices.

Fortunately, I ooze maturity like some sort of a store brand fruit snack.  

Quote
Portables, 3D games, stereoscopic displays, and touch screens have so many detractors here it's astounding.

Because we've been around the block and we don't like what we've seen.  This isn't as new as you make it out to be, it seems to be more of a conglomerate of everything Nintendo has been herping and derping for the last five years.  

Quote
Some of you were happy with how games were, which is fine, but to complain that new technology allowing for new interfaces and experiences is a bad thing for everyone is confusing to me.

Hey man, I like new things.  I just got a gel mousepad.  It's a much different shape than a simple flat mousepad, but I don't mind that because it actually does something I like.  See, that's what I look for in something different.  Either a reason for it to be different or a potential to find a reason to see something that justifies it for being different.

Quote
There's some cynicalness that I guess I understand where with as much potential as the tech allows there's no way it will be put to use in the way that it should in the first few years, but the reaction to failure is pure anger.

If I hadn't lived through the Wii, I might allow myself to be fooled by the """""""potential"""""" that Nintendo will be able to produce.  Notice those quotes.  I stopped at six pairs because I realized that there was no way the written syntax would allow me to express my sarcasm so I just stopped there.  Nintendo has proven that they're more interested in turning heads than actually creating games.  Games on the Wii had to be good despite of the Wii, not because of it.  I'm just seeing this being that twofold, or threefold.  X-fold, where X is the amount of iPad garbage slapped onto the Wii U controller.

Quote
New and strange thinking should be welcomed, not dismissed and ridiculed.

HEY GUYS LETS MAKE SQUARE WHEELS ON THIS CAR!!!!

ISNT THAT JUST SO NEW AND STRANGE?Huh?


Quote
I'm surprised Nintendo went for the 3DS after the hate for the Virtual Boy, but I'm glad because of the new method to not only the gaming crowd but to all digital mediums helping 3D add to experiences in new ways.


I don't like 3D.  Not because it's new, not because it's different, but for real, grounded reasons that I have arrived at as a logical human being.  They went for the 3DS because of James Cameron's Avatar, because 3D was given the license by Rumplefuckingstiltskin (spelling?) to turn straw into gold.  It's the hot new thing, and that's the same reason they made the Virtual Boy.  They just wanted to capitalize on the excitement of something that the public seems positively infatuated with, where Virtual Boy is to virtual reality as the 3DS is to 3D graphics.  You can't tell me with a straight face that the 3DS was made with the intentions of giving games a deeper experience when they play some games that are scoring under fifty on Metacritic.

Quote
How does it hamper game development? The games you want already exist, the games I want are based on new tech and depend on new technology.

In the same way a teacher asking you to write in APA citation or some shit you've never used to write an essay.  Oh, of course you can write an essay, but now you're being required to dip your toes into entirely uncharted waters for the sake of delivering a satisfying product.  It's an unnecessary echelon of development, that like motion controls on the Wii, will be asked by devs to somehow work into their games.  Even when, in fact probably more often than not, the games have nothing to benefit from the new inovashuns imposed by Nintendo.

Quote
Wii U is weird in a way that I didn't expect, and that's exactly what I wanted.


Yeah, I was pleasantly surprised when Nintendo replaced the numeric keypad on an Atari Jaguar controller with a touchscreen.

Quote
I had no idea how they were going to top the Wii.

By combining all their peripherals like they were summoning Captain goddamn Planet.

Quote
It turns your living room into a giant DS, cool.


Hey, are you reading a press release?

Quote
With the popularity of the DS it will sell and designers will hopefully learn to make games based around touch controls.

Yeah, hopefully you guys learn!  Instead of, you know, drastically detracting from functionality and design by trying to make your game use every single peripheral imposed on them.

Quote
Though in a way I don't think its not weird enough. Touch controls, as most of us have noticed aren't really all that different (yet) than using a cursor.

And they probably never will be, unless we do something really, really stupid and crazy in their desperate attempt to make us go oooh and aaah at the idea of Minority Report becoming real.  DUDE DID YOU SEE THAT GUY MOVE A WINDOW WITH THE FLICK OF HIS HANDS THATS WHAT THE FUTURE IS GONNA BE!!!!!  Because it turns out that the mouse and keyboard interface is probably one of the greatest examples of 'if it ain't broke' in modern creation.  

Quote
The Nintendo mentality of trying strange things like the 3DS, Wii, and Vitality Sensor get me excited for the expansion of what video games can be. Expanding into touch beyond rumble, more effective 3D projection, smell systems, who knows.

I can't help but be reminded of that weird wheel thing Mr. Garison invented in that one episode of South Park where you had to shove something up your ass to control it.

Quote
I'm not going to buy it if there is not software that was made for the hardware just because of hype, but I'm going to give it a shot.

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELP


Quote
Frankly the Wii hasn't been worth the money until Skyward Sword, the only game that couldn't be done without motion control at its core. And it's that kind of design that shows how "innovative" systems become worth it, which is something we as independant game designers should remember.

Good, I'm glad you've admitted that the best we can hope for is ONE GAME at the end of the consoles lifecycle that might be able to figure out how to actually use the innovasshunns that everyone has been fumbling with like a greased pig for half a decade.

Also, the game isn't even out yet.  We really don't know if that is true. 

But hey, anything to not seem cynical.    
« Last Edit: June 09, 2011, 10:32:34 PM by AshfordPride » Logged
unsilentwill
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« Reply #110 on: June 09, 2011, 10:39:42 PM »

... I'm sorry? I offended you hardcore I guess. But none of your arguments make sense, and you're so damn angry I'm not sure you'd listen to anything I have to say now.
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AshfordPride
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« Reply #111 on: June 09, 2011, 10:46:39 PM »

... I'm sorry? I offended you hardcore I guess.

It's entirely impersonal and done for my own amusement.
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[RM8]
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« Reply #112 on: June 09, 2011, 10:56:30 PM »

You're taking it too seriously. Of course Nintendo is going to say it's the most amazing and innovative thing ever, MS is doing the same with Kinect and Sony with Vita. It'll play games, hopefully good games, hopefully good games that don't require the tablet. That's all that matters to me, I didn't buy my Wii because of the awesome motion controls or my PS3 because of the amazing graphics and media capabilities.
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lokijki
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« Reply #113 on: June 10, 2011, 01:48:31 AM »

Apparently the Aliens: Colonial Marines game will use the controller as the motion tracker.

Yep. I'm sold.
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Christian Knudsen
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« Reply #114 on: June 10, 2011, 01:58:32 AM »

As a fan of Aliens, that does sound kinda cool...
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Laserbrain Studios
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« Reply #115 on: June 10, 2011, 02:12:20 AM »

There's an odd hatred for trying new things going on here.

Guys, you have to stop hating things that you find awful and detestable!  It is simply unbecoming!  

Quote
That's no good for an independent community.


Yeah, we should just embrace everything.  That's a great way for an artistic community to function, taking in everything and anything with open arms and a welcome eagerness to praise it as the greatest thing ever.  No, what's healthy for a community is for things to fail and people to make mistakes, and for people to be mature enough to be able to make these tough choices.

Fortunately, I ooze maturity like some sort of a store brand fruit snack.  

Quote
Portables, 3D games, stereoscopic displays, and touch screens have so many detractors here it's astounding.

Because we've been around the block and we don't like what we've seen.  This isn't as new as you make it out to be, it seems to be more of a conglomerate of everything Nintendo has been herping and derping for the last five years.  

Quote
Some of you were happy with how games were, which is fine, but to complain that new technology allowing for new interfaces and experiences is a bad thing for everyone is confusing to me.

Hey man, I like new things.  I just got a gel mousepad.  It's a much different shape than a simple flat mousepad, but I don't mind that because it actually does something I like.  See, that's what I look for in something different.  Either a reason for it to be different or a potential to find a reason to see something that justifies it for being different.

Quote
There's some cynicalness that I guess I understand where with as much potential as the tech allows there's no way it will be put to use in the way that it should in the first few years, but the reaction to failure is pure anger.

If I hadn't lived through the Wii, I might allow myself to be fooled by the """""""potential"""""" that Nintendo will be able to produce.  Notice those quotes.  I stopped at six pairs because I realized that there was no way the written syntax would allow me to express my sarcasm so I just stopped there.  Nintendo has proven that they're more interested in turning heads than actually creating games.  Games on the Wii had to be good despite of the Wii, not because of it.  I'm just seeing this being that twofold, or threefold.  X-fold, where X is the amount of iPad garbage slapped onto the Wii U controller.

Quote
New and strange thinking should be welcomed, not dismissed and ridiculed.

HEY GUYS LETS MAKE SQUARE WHEELS ON THIS CAR!!!!

ISNT THAT JUST SO NEW AND STRANGE?Huh?


Quote
I'm surprised Nintendo went for the 3DS after the hate for the Virtual Boy, but I'm glad because of the new method to not only the gaming crowd but to all digital mediums helping 3D add to experiences in new ways.


I don't like 3D.  Not because it's new, not because it's different, but for real, grounded reasons that I have arrived at as a logical human being.  They went for the 3DS because of James Cameron's Avatar, because 3D was given the license by Rumplefuckingstiltskin (spelling?) to turn straw into gold.  It's the hot new thing, and that's the same reason they made the Virtual Boy.  They just wanted to capitalize on the excitement of something that the public seems positively infatuated with, where Virtual Boy is to virtual reality as the 3DS is to 3D graphics.  You can't tell me with a straight face that the 3DS was made with the intentions of giving games a deeper experience when they play some games that are scoring under fifty on Metacritic.

Quote
How does it hamper game development? The games you want already exist, the games I want are based on new tech and depend on new technology.

In the same way a teacher asking you to write in APA citation or some shit you've never used to write an essay.  Oh, of course you can write an essay, but now you're being required to dip your toes into entirely uncharted waters for the sake of delivering a satisfying product.  It's an unnecessary echelon of development, that like motion controls on the Wii, will be asked by devs to somehow work into their games.  Even when, in fact probably more often than not, the games have nothing to benefit from the new inovashuns imposed by Nintendo.

Quote
Wii U is weird in a way that I didn't expect, and that's exactly what I wanted.


Yeah, I was pleasantly surprised when Nintendo replaced the numeric keypad on an Atari Jaguar controller with a touchscreen.

Quote
I had no idea how they were going to top the Wii.

By combining all their peripherals like they were summoning Captain goddamn Planet.

Quote
It turns your living room into a giant DS, cool.


Hey, are you reading a press release?

Quote
With the popularity of the DS it will sell and designers will hopefully learn to make games based around touch controls.

Yeah, hopefully you guys learn!  Instead of, you know, drastically detracting from functionality and design by trying to make your game use every single peripheral imposed on them.

Quote
Though in a way I don't think its not weird enough. Touch controls, as most of us have noticed aren't really all that different (yet) than using a cursor.

And they probably never will be, unless we do something really, really stupid and crazy in their desperate attempt to make us go oooh and aaah at the idea of Minority Report becoming real.  DUDE DID YOU SEE THAT GUY MOVE A WINDOW WITH THE FLICK OF HIS HANDS THATS WHAT THE FUTURE IS GONNA BE!!!!!  Because it turns out that the mouse and keyboard interface is probably one of the greatest examples of 'if it ain't broke' in modern creation.  

Quote
The Nintendo mentality of trying strange things like the 3DS, Wii, and Vitality Sensor get me excited for the expansion of what video games can be. Expanding into touch beyond rumble, more effective 3D projection, smell systems, who knows.

I can't help but be reminded of that weird wheel thing Mr. Garison invented in that one episode of South Park where you had to shove something up your ass to control it.

Quote
I'm not going to buy it if there is not software that was made for the hardware just because of hype, but I'm going to give it a shot.

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELP


Quote
Frankly the Wii hasn't been worth the money until Skyward Sword, the only game that couldn't be done without motion control at its core. And it's that kind of design that shows how "innovative" systems become worth it, which is something we as independant game designers should remember.

Good, I'm glad you've admitted that the best we can hope for is ONE GAME at the end of the consoles lifecycle that might be able to figure out how to actually use the innovasshunns that everyone has been fumbling with like a greased pig for half a decade.

Also, the game isn't even out yet.  We really don't know if that is true. 

But hey, anything to not seem cynical.    


I pretty much agree.
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SirNiko
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« Reply #116 on: June 10, 2011, 03:03:25 AM »

If it wasn't for touch screen games, the Trauma Center series would never exist. The same for Wii remote pointing. Metroid Prime 3 and Twilight Princess's use of the wii remote for aiming convinced me that the Wii was the ideal platform for all FPS titles. And of course, Trauma Team for the Wii is a masterpiece and you need to play it.
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man of doom
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« Reply #117 on: June 10, 2011, 03:45:42 AM »

Apparently the Aliens: Colonial Marines game will use the controller as the motion tracker.

Yep. I'm sold.

This.
Also from my limited experience, some games are much better with motion/touch/pointing controls. The Metroid Prime series was greatly improved by them and I thought Resident Evil 4 on the Wii was much better too once I got used to the button layout.
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« Reply #118 on: June 10, 2011, 05:27:45 AM »

... I'm sorry? I offended you hardcore I guess. But none of your arguments make sense, and you're so damn angry I'm not sure you'd listen to anything I have to say now.
you are wrong but you'll have to take my word for it ok

Quote
It'll play games, hopefully good games, hopefully good games that don't require the tablet.
notice you'll still be paying for the tablet and all its features. notice the controller will still be an unwieldy bizarre thing with a screen in the middle of everything.
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Ego_Shiner
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« Reply #119 on: June 10, 2011, 06:01:38 AM »

bitching and moaning

for god's sake the damn thing isn't even out yet, how can you possibly 'hate' the control scheme and every game that will ever be released for it. im not saying we should see the wii u as the second coming of christ but at least wait until it exists before you pass your almighty hammer of judgement
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