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[Skofo]

I shall jump on the band wagon.

HAH I was looking for that for so long! Thanks for posting it.

[Annabelle Kennedy]

LittleBigPlanet is definitely too kiddy.

I'm not going to play it. I'm not even going to go 300 meters within a copy of it. What would all the girls that constantly watch me play think (i.e. mom, sister)!? I must play MANLY games to secure my masculinity.

*goes and makes another 1500 posts in an online indie gaming forum with a dolphin avatar*

Plus, I should be making my own games in a real game developing program, like Game Maker or RPG Maker. Using something like LBP instead of Game Maker to develop game content would definitely have a negative impact on my life. If you're having fun while designing and making game content, you're obviously DOING IT WRONG.

LittleBigPlanet is a godless bane on the world. All of you dumb kiddies go ahead and play it, I'm too cool and manly to even notice you.

*draws sunglasses and cigarette on his dolphin avatar*



'shyea boi.

 :D :D :D

[Corpus]

Someone said on IRC the other week that EarthBound was too "kiddie."

I was too hurt and incredulous to reply.

Actually, it was probably Ash.

[ChevyRay]

Someone obviously didn't fight Giygas.

[Cymon]

I think the problem for most of us is that while playing it we'd just feel guilty that we were building stuff in an editor instead of working on our own original content/games (I at least would feel that way).

It seems, tho, that you are in a minority. Remember Lode Runner? The sequel was made entirely of fan made levels. ZZT? Survived for years on the fan community. And look up [your favorite FPS] mod on google some time.

[TeeGee]

I think the problem for most of us is that while playing it we'd just feel guilty that we were building stuff in an editor instead of working on our own original content/games (I at least would feel that way).

It seems, tho, that you are in a minority. Remember Lode Runner? The sequel was made entirely of fan made levels. ZZT? Survived for years on the fan community. And look up [your favorite FPS] mod on google some time.

Sure, but those fans don't have 2+ large game projects of their own to work on . I know modding is great and can make the game go way ahead of its initial state. I was pretty into modding before I started working on my own stuff.

I think you misunderstood us. Architekt (sorry for putting words in your mouth, architekt, correct me if I'm wrong) and I meant that we - game developers - may have this psychological problem with working on something that's not our own and, in the end, won't get us nowhere. I know I do and it would significantly subtract from the fun I would get from LBP. Of course, game developers are only a tiny portion of gamers.

And yeah, in general, I think LBP is really great.

[Skofo]

I think the problem for most of us is that while playing it we'd just feel guilty that we were building stuff in an editor instead of working on our own original content/games (I at least would feel that way).

It seems, tho, that you are in a minority. Remember Lode Runner? The sequel was made entirely of fan made levels. ZZT? Survived for years on the fan community. And look up [your favorite FPS] mod on google some time.

Sure, but those fans don't have 2+ large game projects of their own to work on . I know modding is great and can make the game go way ahead of its initial state. I was pretty into modding before I started working on my own stuff.

I think you misunderstood us. Architekt (sorry for putting words in your mouth, architekt, correct me if I'm wrong) and I meant that we - game developers - may have this psychological problem with working on something that's not our own and, in the end, won't get us nowhere. I know I do and it would significantly subtract from the fun I would get from LBP. Of course, game developers are only a tiny portion of gamers.

And yeah, in general, I think LBP is really great.

What are you making "your own game" in? Does making mods mean that you're not making your own things? 99% of Source games are actually mods.

When you're making "your own games" in Game Maker, you're actually modding Game Maker. You don't own that 1~2mb portion of Game Maker that comes with all of "your" games, and you're required to mention that that portion is actually owned by YoYoGames. The same thing goes for any library like SDL. Non-compiled programming languages as well. Hell, even compiled programming languages. Even if you make your stuff in machine code, you're essentially modding all of the little switches on your hard drive. It does not matter what tool you use, it is how you use it. Just because someone has more fun or saves more time modding an FPS game or MUGEN or whatever or creating things in LBP as opposed to starting relatively from scratch (and Game Maker is nothing close to "scratch", by the way), it does not mean that their creations are not "their own".

I suggest you get off your high horse and think a bit more before saying that modders and LBP players aren't creating "their own" stuff.

Although I do see where you're coming from. I felt the same way for a bit when playing Gmod until I realized how dumb that perspective was.

[TeeGee]

Oh, Jesus, it's obvious that I don't mean that modding isn't creating "your own stuff", it's just not quite the same as working on your own game. It's fun and rewarding for sure, but an entirely different thing.
And yes, the time I would use on creating a fun LBP level could be used to do some stuff on my own projects. No matter if I'd do it using my own engine, Game Maker or glue and few pieces of paper.

I suggest you think a bit more before saying that modders and LBP players aren't creating "their own" stuff.

I'm sorry, I'm just not used to people picking by words on this forum  .

[Skofo]

Oh, Jesus, it's obvious that I don't mean that modding isn't creating "your own stuff", it's just not quite the same as working on your own game. It's fun and rewarding for sure, but an entirely different thing.
And yes, the time I would use on creating a fun LBP level could be used to do some stuff on my own projects. No matter if I do it on my own engine, Game Maker or glue and few pieces of paper.

I suggest you think a bit more before saying that modders and LBP players aren't creating "their own" stuff.

I'm sorry, I'm just not used to people picking by words on this forum  .

Hm, alright then. Sorry for blowing up on you.

EDIT: NO! I shall not falter to such a nonsensical argument! Why do you consider modding not creating your own game, again? I've already said that making games in Game Maker is modding Game Maker. There have been a LOT of games made by modding FPS games and engines. You can also make your own games in LittleBigPlanet, I think, create the levels and all that.

Why is what YOU do an "entirely different thing"? Also, why do you believe that what you do is in some way superiour to projects made in LBP or Half-Life 2? If that were true, then in the same sense people who develop their games in C++ are superiour to you, and people who develop their games in machine code are superiour to both of you. Is this true, at least in your deformed perspective?

[Valter]

LittleBigPlanet is definitely too kiddy.

I'm not going to play it. I'm not even going to go 300 meters within a copy of it. What would all the girls that constantly watch me play think (i.e. mom, sister)!? I must play MANLY games to secure my masculinity.

*goes and makes another 1500 posts in an online indie gaming forum with a dolphin avatar*

Plus, I should be making my own games in a real game developing program, like Game Maker or RPG Maker. Using something like LBP instead of Game Maker to develop game content would definitely have a negative impact on my life. If you're having fun while designing and making game content, you're obviously DOING IT WRONG.

LittleBigPlanet is a godless bane on the world. All of you dumb kiddies go ahead and play it, I'm too cool and manly to even notice you.

LBP looks sweet, though. Kind of kiddie for my tastes, but proper platformer level designers haven't been around in ages.

Uh, what? I suppose it's my fault for posting anything controversial on the internet, but this is just being a dick. You guys are being fucking assholes because my opinion differed from yours. grow up.

I didn't even dis the game, either. Apparently my thought that the sack-dolls were "kiddy" set you all off. There's a phrase out there, that goes something like "Not my cup of tea". You can lavish affection on it all you want. I'm just not someone who instantly falls in love with anything "cute". I personally think that the current aesthetic would seriously restrict the gameplay.

Sure, totally customizable platforms, moving platforms, levers, switches, I'm sure there's all kinds of shit in LBP that you can do to make fun platforming.

But where are the enemies? I looked up LBP some more after reading all you guys' trolling, because I figured I must have missed something to be blasted so much. I've read about it, but I can't find any place that mentions enemies. There's no battle mechanics at all. There may be dangers and obstacles, but there's no actual combat. And I have a problem with that.

You don't have to agree. But I think that the platforming is just a shell. There's got to be an antagonist, a greater enemy. Metroid, Mario, Sonic, Castlevania, Mega Man, Gunstar Heroes, Zelda 2..... They all have platforming, but they all have enemies that characters face off against too.

Beyond any of those problems, though, I just don't like how it looks. I yearn for proper 2D gaming, pixel art, that sort of thing. "Sack puppets" is not an aesthetic that appeals to me.

Also, fun fact:

A picture from Ecco the Dolphin. I'm trying, but I can't find any other name for the people calling Ecco "Kiddy", other than "ignorant bastard". I made sure to look up LBP before I said something deliberately ignorant. It's apparent that none of you are considering anything like that.

[deadeye]

I'm sorry GV, I was just poking fun and if I hurt your feelings I'm sorry

I think Ecco is a good game too (though I didn't say anything bad about it to begin with).

[TeeGee]

Why is what YOU do an "entirely different thing"? Also, why do you believe that what you do is in some way superiour to projects made in LBP or Half-Life 2? If that were true, then in the same sense people who develop their games in C++ are superiour to you, and people who develop their games in machine code are superiour to both of you. Is this true, at least in your deformed perspective?

Umm... where did I used the word "superior". Different thing != subpar thing.

EDIT: NO! I shall not falter to such a nonsensical argument! Why do you consider modding not creating your own game, again? I've already said that making games in Game Maker is modding Game Maker. There have been a LOT of games made by modding FPS games and engines. You can also make your own games in LittleBigPlanet, I think, create the levels and all that.

That's a pretty ridiculous and hard to defend point. I mean, seriously. Would making LBP levels in your free time make you and indie game dev? Could you live of LBP levels? Could you start a company to exclusively make LBP levels? Would people call you a 'game developer' if you would jump into these forums and announce that: "Hi, guys, check out my latest game - it's a level in LBP"?

Wait, why am I even arguing over it  ? It's just silly and I get the impression that you are one of these people I see no point in arguing with over anything - it leads nowhere. All your posts seem to consist of some random negativity and some semi-related hatred towards Game Maker. Why? Were you hurt by this piece of software, or something?

We all have our bad days, but c'mon  . 

[Tobasco Panda]

Yeah, for the most part GeneralValter, I think we've just been trying to 'get your goat', as it were.

I'm not really sure what we planned to do with it once we got it really... Maybe put Smithy on it while he is on drugs sleeping and send him on a quest to meet the mystical Panda and discover a cure for Polybius.

[deadeye]

Yeah, for the most part GeneralValter, I think we've just been trying to 'get your goat', as it were.

I'm not really sure what we planned to do with it once we got it really...

Put it on a pole.

[Cheater‽]

But where are the enemies? I looked up LBP some more after reading all you guys' trolling, because I figured I must have missed something to be blasted so much. I've read about it, but I can't find any place that mentions enemies. There's no battle mechanics at all. There may be dangers and obstacles, but there's no actual combat. And I have a problem with that.

What the hell man, you don't like N?

[Skofo]

Yeah, GeneralValter, I was just half-playing. I wouldn't make a kickass avatar for you if I were trying to seriously bash on you.

Why is what YOU do an "entirely different thing"? Also, why do you believe that what you do is in some way superiour to projects made in LBP or Half-Life 2? If that were true, then in the same sense people who develop their games in C++ are superiour to you, and people who develop their games in machine code are superiour to both of you. Is this true, at least in your deformed perspective?

Umm... where did I used the word "superior". Different thing != subpar thing.

Okay, then. You said that you'd have a problem playing LBP because you know how to create games in other things. If this isn't simply elitism and thinking that Game Maker is superiour, then in the same sense you could argue that you have a problem with eating because you could be spending that time making games in Game Maker.

EDIT: NO! I shall not falter to such a nonsensical argument! Why do you consider modding not creating your own game, again? I've already said that making games in Game Maker is modding Game Maker. There have been a LOT of games made by modding FPS games and engines. You can also make your own games in LittleBigPlanet, I think, create the levels and all that.

That's a pretty ridiculous and hard to defend point. I mean, seriously. Would making LBP levels in your free time make you and indie game dev? Could you live of LBP levels? Could you start a company to exclusively make LBP levels? Would people call you a 'game developer' if you would jump into these forums and announce that: "Hi, guys, check out my latest game - it's a level in LBP"?

Wait, why am I even arguing over it  ? It's just silly and I get the impression that you are one of these people I see no point in arguing with over anything - it leads nowhere. All your posts seem to consist of some random negativity and some semi-related hatred towards Game Maker. Why? Were you hurt by this piece of software, or something?

We all have our bad days, but c'mon  .

I'm not trying to argue against Game Maker in particular here, I'm just using it as a comparison to other things that you have a problem with using because apparently you use Game Maker.

Also, perhaps LBP doesn't give enough freedom for people to sell their games, but if that's what you're looking for in a game development platform, then forget LBP for a second. You seemed to ignore me mentioning FPS mods. There are many game companies devoted to creating FPS mods, and those companies make enough to create a living for all of their employees. Here are some of them:

* Counter-Strike - Developed by only one modder at first, went on to become the most played multiplayer FPS game even today.
* Team Fortress 2 - Very popular commercial mod of Half-Life 2.
* Garry's Mod - Another popular commercial mod of Half-Life 2, created by one person at first.
* Half-Life 2 - HL2 is actually a mod of the Quake engine.

Yet modding to create games somehow becomes unappealing when you learn how to create games in Game Maker. Hmmmm...

And yes, there is a point to this debate. I want you to realize your wrongdoings and write a formal-written apology and sell your soul to the mod community!

Like, right now. Or I might get really angry.

You don't want to see Skofo when he's really angry.

[Cheater‽]

[Annabelle Kennedy]

Actually, it was probably Ash.

I don't doubt that in the slightest...

[Ishi]

Aww what happened here.

LBP will be ace. I had the beta which was fun, looking forward to co-oping more of the story levels.

[TeeGee]

Okay, then. You said that you'd have a problem playing LBP because you know how to create games in other things. If this isn't simply elitism and thinking that Game Maker is superiour, then in the same sense you could argue that you have a problem with eating because you could be spending that time making games in Game Maker.

Wait, why Game Maker of all things?
I have a cool idea. Since it seems that you don't really need me to write anything, as you can always put lots of words in my mouth, I'll just start posting pretty pictures instead. And you'll add whatever meaning, you are comfortable to argue with, to them. That way everybody's happy.
I'll start with a nice flower:

Also, perhaps LBP doesn't give enough freedom for people to sell their games, but if that's what you're looking for in a game development platform, then forget LBP for a second. You seemed to ignore me mentioning FPS mods. There are many game companies devoted to creating FPS mods, and those companies make enough to create a living for all of their employees. Here are some of them:

* Counter-Strike - Developed by only one modder at first, went on to become the most played multiplayer FPS game even today.
* Team Fortress 2 - Very popular commercial mod of Half-Life 2.
* Garry's Mod - Another popular commercial mod of Half-Life 2, created by one person at first.
* Half-Life 2 - HL2 is actually a mod of the Quake engine.

Yet modding to create games somehow becomes unappealing when you learn how to create games in Game Maker. Hmmmm...

That's right. But we're not talking FPS mods nor Game Maker  . It's very simple - architekt said: "game developers could feel guilty for making levels in LBP instead of making their own stuff", I pretty much said: "Yeah, I know what you're talking about". That's all. No strings attached, no looking down on modding communities or saying level creation isn't a cool idea. It is cool, fun, rewarding and all, and it's what makes LBP awesome. It still would make me feel guilty, though, and you can't tell me otherwise.
I don't know how Game Maker, FPS mods and elitism got into this discussion.