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[The Doctor]

There comes a time in my life where I have to admit something that someone else can't, and since this is a game board, I figured perhaps it has a place here.

My brother is addicted to MMOs. Specifically, FFXI. He's been playing every day now since... I think around December of 2003. Recently, he's started playing with two characters at once. One on his laptop, and the other on the PS2.

He doesn't have a job anymore, lives on unemployment, denies not trying to get a job, and just plays morning until night. It's disgusting. Not to mention it's an embarassment to our family.

Now, I'm a customer service rep at my job, and a computer programmer at home, and I do actually believe I spend less time sitting in front of a screen than he does. How in the world do you combat something like that?

Anyway, this thread can be discussion about Gaming Addiction, how to possibly stop it, and how it has effected you, or your friends and family.

Have at it.

[moshboy]

Just out of curiousity how old is your brother?

[ChrisFranklin]

I haven't seen the worst of it (though I've heard horror stories) but I have seen it ruin relationships and college careers.  People just stop going to class or work or seeing other people and get totally absolved in the game.  Like all addictions, the line between "casual enjoyment" and "full blown addiction" is a relatively abstract one, but once it's destroying your life I'd say it's safe to say you have a serious problem.  When sleep and earning a living become secondary priorities, something has gone awry.

As designers and developers, I really can't say we are absolved of responsibility here.  There's no denying that most MMOs are timesinks with an addictive positive feedback loop and a carrot-at-the-end-of-a-stick mentality.  You're always chasing that next level, that sweeter loot, that more awesome mount.  There's always something to improve, and it's all in a universe where things can objectively be called better.  I'm not just against MMOs because they're pretty awful games from the get-go, I'm also against them because they're largely designed to ruin human lives for $13.99/month.

[Derek]

My roommate and good friend in college took a seminar called "The Anthropology of Online Games."  (At Berkeley there are student-run seminars that you can take for a small amount of credits.)  One of the things you had to do for the class was get a free one-month account in Lineage and do some quests with your classmates.

It was funny, because I distinctly recall him saying adamantly how he was going to quit after the free month.

Anyway, long story short, by the end of the month he was playing nonstop.  I'd wake up and he'd be playing, and when I came back from class at night he'd still be playing, in his pajamas, just the way I left him!  He was missing classes and on the verge of failing some of them.

He had his credit card in his hand ready to sign up for a paid account when his girlfriend threatened to break up with him and told him he was going to fail out of college.  That's when he quit.  And seriously, it probably would have ruined him if he kept playing!

Regarding your brother, you should probably just delete his accounts, let him berate you a bit, and then take him out bowling or something.  It's really his whole life on the line, from what you're saying.

[Melly]

I won't say that I know much in the subject, but while I believe it is partially the fault of MMO design (the carrot at the end of the stick thing, as mentioned), a bigger part of the problem is, I believe, in the psychology of the addict. There is something about your brother that makes him be susceptable to this addiction. I won't assume I know what it could be, but something is. Maybe social life, maybe he just doesn't see a point in doing other things, I have no idea. The thing is that, just deleting his accounts, I believe, would not solve the issue. More likely than not he'd be back into it the first moment he had a chance. Or he'd find another addiction to latch onto.

I personally have no problem with someone that spends most if not all of his free time playing games, even if they are MMO's. However it is a problem when that also means the person doesn't earn a living or sleep and feed himself properly. I believe you should try and get him to some professional help, see what's the root of the problem.

[moi]

Online gamers anonymous , lots of stories about the problem there. It can become even worse than what we could imagine.

[Headmade]

Regarding your brother, you should probably just delete his accounts, let him berate you a bit, and then take him out bowling or something. 

This is somwthing you really should not do. If you just delete his accounts you will only piss him off and in the worst case this will lead to the point where he doesn't listen to you anymore. He has to delete his accounts himself and it must be a consious decision (and once he quit you really should make him delete the acount to make recidivism less probable).

I realise it is not a simple task but I think the only way to make him stop is by making him realise what he is missing out. The best point to attack is prabably social life. Ask him when he was out with friends the last time. When did he have contact with other people the last time? And when he mentions his guild, ask him if he has sex with his guild. I've heard of people who quit once they met a new love. Maybe you can introduce him to someone?
Ask him questions that he can not easily brush of with a yes or no, let him explain himself and make him think about his situation. Ask him how he sees his future. What will he do when the FF servers shut down (and ultimatley this will happen someday).

Another point of attack might be his physical condition. Gaming addicts often gain heavily weight so if this is the case with him make him realise that.

There is plenty of of ammunition for you to fire at his many weak spots. Offer him your help, ask him if he wants to join you in some fun activity, show interest and most importantly: don't give up. It's not easy but it can be done.

[Derek]

Regarding your brother, you should probably just delete his accounts, let him berate you a bit, and then take him out bowling or something. 

This is somwthing you really should not do. If you just delete his accounts you will only piss him off and in the worst case this will lead to the point where he doesn't listen to you anymore. He has to delete his accounts himself and it must be a consious decision (and once he quit you really should make him delete the acount to make recidivism less probable).

I was thinking that taking his characters away would give you an opening to just lead him by the hand into the real world.  As long as his characters are there, with all their loot, levels, and other connections to the game, he probably will only be listening with one ear.  But once those are gone, you can take him out and he'll have no excuses.  Sure, he'd be angry, at first, but he'd soon realize that he didn't lose anything at all.

I agree it would be better if he deleted the accounts himself, but it seems like pointing out his lack of social life, poor physical condition, etc., would just lower his self esteem and drive him further to the game.  But a lot of it depends on the relationship and also whether your brother is feeling depressed.  If things are healthy, I'd say just pull the plug and duke it out a bit, like brothers should.  Otherwise, you have to be more delicate, of course.  Either way, I agree with Tinarg - showing interest in helping is never a bad idea.

P.S. I will gladly defer to people who know more about it than I do!

Online gamers anonymous , lots of stories about the problem there. It can become even worse than what we could imagine.

From their "twelve steps:"

"6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character."

God made the ultimate MMORPG.  It's called Life.  ZING!!!

[Chris Whitman]

So shame him into quitting?

I'm no behavioral psychologist, but I think he's going to take any of those points as personal attacks, and he's simply going to end up resenting you.

Massively multiplayer games offer a weird kind of Skinnerian reinforcement based on diminishing returns. At first you are rewarded for relatively minor actions, and the activity itself seems novel and interesting, but as time progresses, rewards diminish and the activity becomes rote and familiar. Chances are, if he's been playing for a very long time, he no longer actually enjoys playing. I've been through this before, with a roommate of mine -- eventually playing the game simply becomes habitual, and play continues even in the absence of entertainment because it displaces their normal routine.

Ask him honestly if he still enjoys playing, I guess. I like the idea about asking him what he'd rather do or where he sees his activities taking him in the long term, just be sure not to be too harsh or judgemental, or he may simply shut down and stop listening to you. The first step is for him to decide that he wants to quit playing. The second step is for him to delete his account and uninstall the damn game, because if it's still sitting around, it's very easy to go back to. I know a lot of people who have claimed they would 'quit playing' and ended up playing anyway, and it's simply because, without any other kind of routine, they weren't sure what else to do with their time.

So, convince him tactfully that it is becoming a problem for him, convince of the necessity to uninstall the game and cancel his accounts, and let him know that you are there for him, and eventually, even if he feels like he 'has nothing to do,' his normal routine will reassert itself and he will be all right.

[Chris Whitman]

I don't know about the whole 'deleting his characters' thing. I think some people respond very well to that sort of thing -- they get angry for a bit and then sort themselves out -- while some just become highly resentful and feel like you are attacking them personally.

One of the things which makes addictions so difficult to break is the intense feeling of shame associated with being addicted to something, especially something as 'trivial' as a computer game. The easiest reaction to this feeling is denial, and in the face of denial, an addict will attempt to rationalize your behavior towards him into any narrative which avoids that feeling. Most probably, he will perceive that you are attacking him personally: that you hate him, are jealous or simply don't understand.

Maybe your brother is the sort of person who will react really well to being shaken up a bit, and he'll come out okay, but be certain you know for sure before you take steps to delete his account or characters. Trust is an absolute necessity with helping someone through addiction, and if he can't recognize that you are trying to act in his best interest, as would be the case if he rationalizes your actions to protect his own feelings, he will stop trusting you, and you will be entirely unable to help until you can reestablish that trust.

You know your brother better than we do, obviously, so hopefully you can decide whether or not it's a good call.

[moshboy]

I have personally been rather addicted to text MUDs as a late teenager (which dragged over to my early twenties), hence I asked about the age. It got to the point where I was on there day and night with only breaks for sleeping, eating and going to the toilet. It ruined many aspects of my life, ranging from my relationships with my parents and brother, socialising with my friends, schooling and employment.

In my case I had some pretty bad self-esteem issues as a teenager, which lead me down this wierd thought pattern that people on the internet accepted me for who I was and didn't judge me (which is a total load of shit ofcourse), hence the more time I spent there, the more 'fake' self-esteem it gave me.

Fortunately my parents did start putting some bans on me (I was living in there house after all), so it didn't take me long to understand that there was more to the world. Things don't take long to improve when your given a reality check sometimes. That isn't to say I wasn't angry at the time (about that world being yanked from around me) but it didn't take long to realise that the anger wasn't justified and that what they had done had really helped me out.

[Outer God]

The moment you mentioned that he was playing two characters at once...*shudders*.  no seriously, your brother needs help.  maybe he needs to find a hobby.  just get his attention focused on something else and lay it on him discretely.

[ajhem]

People can be addicted not only to some MMORPGs. Even to flash games. As developers site we everyday receive a couple of letters where people mention that they gain some 38-39000000 points at games or that they play them everyday passing uncountable number of levels. Housewives especially like games like Patchworkz! or Bubblez!

[fish]

thats so sad.
i knew a girl like that once. doing the 2 characters thing.

i guess i can consider myself lucky that im sooo not addicted to videogame.
im more addicted to a dozen other things and substances but videogames? nope.
i prolly only play a few hours every week. sometimes none at all.

[Headmade]

Regarding your brother, you should probably just delete his accounts, let him berate you a bit, and then take him out bowling or something. 

This is somwthing you really should not do. If you just delete his accounts you will only piss him off and in the worst case this will lead to the point where he doesn't listen to you anymore. He has to delete his accounts himself and it must be a consious decision (and once he quit you really should make him delete the acount to make recidivism less probable).

I was thinking that taking his characters away would give you an opening to just lead him by the hand into the real world.  As long as his characters are there, with all their loot, levels, and other connections to the game, he probably will only be listening with one ear.  But once those are gone, you can take him out and he'll have no excuses.  Sure, he'd be angry, at first, but he'd soon realize that he didn't lose anything at all.

I see what you mean, but unfortunately there are several hooks attached. For once this is probably only a theoratical possibility because he would need the password for the account to delete it, which he probably doesn't have. Furthermore deleted characters can be restored. He could just contact customer support and would get back his characters fully equipped.
But even if his characters were gone for good this could have the exact opposite effect you had in mind. If he is fanatic enough he might simply start anew and because he has no alot of catching up to do he will play even more excessively.

So shame him into quitting?

I'm no behavioral psychologist, but I think he's going to take any of those points as personal attacks, and he's simply going to end up resenting you.

No need to shame him. But the way The Doctor decribed things his brother seems to be denying his addiction. Then you would have to confront him with the truth to make him realise his situation.

The first step is for him to decide that he wants to quit playing.

Exactly. What I was trying to say is that he should tell him all the good reasons to quit. I don't know how else to do this but beeing upfront about it.

[Jimbob]

How about finding a way to stifle whatever he's getting income from.
Surely credit cards have to run out at some point?

I remember one of my friends having an Ultima Online addiction, and his parents basically freezing him out so it got him out into a job, and eventually back into college.

[Madgarden]

Swap out his keyboard with a DVORAK.

[PoV]

Swap out his keyboard with a DVORAK.

Didn't stop me!  Mwahaha!  ',.pyfgcrl/=aoeuidhtns-;qjkxbmwvz\!!!

[skaldicpoet9]

Swap out his keyboard with a DVORAK.

Didn't stop me!  Mwahaha!  ',.pyfgcrl/=aoeuidhtns-;qjkxbmwvz\!!!

that's hardcore man lol



Well, I believe that the best course of action would be to just talk with him, don't attack him, or belittle him just let him know that you are worried about him. Most people will listen if you show real, honest concern. If you are too aggressive with him as it has been mentioned before he will just tune you out. A few casual conversations with him can also allow you to probe deeper into what it is that driving him to take such a vested effort in this game and thus allow you to better understand how to deal with this problem.

Personally, for me, MMOs are an intriguing concept and could be a great idea for a game if the developers weren't interested in trying to suck people's time as much as possible. I played WOW for about 6 months. At first it seemed like it was good, I liked the idea of the guilds, PVP, Arena fighting and all that. However, as I played on I realized that the game was just a tedious grind to level 70 and was just too big of a time commitment. Near the end I would log on and just aimlessly wander until I got bored, I was just so friggin' tired of killing x of this to get y gold or x experience. In a way though WOW enabled me to really get me back to good games (not that I wasn't playing them during WOW) I just realized that I like it when a game ends sometimes. The ironic thing is, before I got my WOW account I bought Guild Wars because it didn't have a subscription fee but still ended up getting WoW. I still have Guild Wars though which is actually a damn good MMO and is geared toward more casual players (no endless grind with a level 20 cap).

[sam2008]

Addiction is generally associated with increased drug tolerance. In physiological terms, addiction is not necessarily associated with substance abuse since this form of addiction can result from using medication as prescribed by a doctor.
===================================================
Sam
Drug Rehab