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[Grumpy Moose]

Hi everyone!

Let me start of by saying that this is my first post, and if I managed to post it in the wrong place, I apologize.

The question I wanted to ask you all is the following: as a someone who wants to start making his own simple games, which would be the best software to use? Game Maker (8.0) or Multimedia Fusion 2?

But, you might say, how can we possibly determine this for you? Allow me to give an image of who I am.

In short, I'm a 19-year old Belgian brat who has been fascinated by games ever since he first laid eyes upon them for the very first time. My interest in video games has only grown bigger as I've grown older. At the age of 19, my interest has grown so big that I've decided that I wanted to start making my own games. It has become an itch I simply HAVE to scratch. I can't focus in class because I'm thinking about games I want to design, I can't sleep because of it and I can't... Well, you get the (slightly exaggerated) idea...

I'm mainly interested in 2D, side scrolling, top down, and isometric games. I don't own a classic game console (back when they were cool I was still an unborn abomination), and I frequently indulge in the use of modern gaming consoles (I own a 360, which I have enjoyed very much so far  ). But still I feel more comfortable playing older 2D games. A lot of them have this homely feeling that I just can't find in modern games. I often find myself playing them and saying to myself, "I wanna create something like this." or "I'd give my entire toy lazergun collection just to have made this game.".

But there's always the problem of finding a place to start. I've often asked in other places and most of the replies were "Learn to code some decent C++ before you start!!! " At my speed it would probably take me several months to compile my first Hello World.

So I've tried a few times to teach myself some gamemaking-related stuff. I've tried using Microsoft's XNA platform, and while I managed to do something with it, I eventually hit a massive brick wall due to my lack of decent programming experience. The fact that the Xbox Live Indie Games channel was not released in Europe also left a slightly sour taste in my mouth 

Yes, that's right, I have only a little experience in programming. At school I'm currently following classes about Java, and I've teached myself a little (A LITTLE) C++. But these are ofcourse of no use to me, certainly because I know absolutely ZERO knowledge about computer graphics. But then I found out about a program called Game Maker. At first I thought it was just a software package for kids, but I later found out that the amazing Spelunky by Mr. Derek Yu was actually made in Game Maker. This peaked my interest, certainly when I learned about GML. I also found out that many of Nifflas' games (one of the reasons why I started checking out the indie games world was my love for his games) were made in Multimedia Fusion, as well as some other games such as I Wanna Be The Guy.

Both seemed like very good options considering my own (non-existant) skills. I get the feeling that I could handle GML with some self-educating, the price for the GM Pro edition is quite low, and me not having to worry about the actual engine makes me happy. Multimedia Fusion also seemed very powerful and a little more professional than GM (the YoYo Games website is rather poor). MMF2's price is a quite a bit larger, but I imagine that this is is with good cause.

I realize that both won't let me make any spectacular games, but that's not what I'm looking for right now. I just wan't to... create. Not that I have too many creative skills (it's rather sad really), but as I said, it's a itch I just have to scratch. If I never get past these low-level software packages, fine. But if they prove to be stepping stones to something bigger, well, all the better then.

I don't know if any of these programs are actually used around here (for all I know, they might be looked upon as rubbish), but any input would be very much appreciated.

Thanks! 

[increpare]

Please search first.

And welcome : )

[Grumpy Moose]

Please search first.

And welcome : )

Damnit! And I thought I did enough searching before I posted this . "Game Maker" is a rather difficult keyword for searching around this type of board though...

Thanks for the insanely quick reply!

[CRTSSLL]

Hey Grumpy Moose I think we are in exactly the same boat. I want to make a game badly however I have next to no programming skills. I have encountered the same problems you have with trying to learn XNA and being afraid of C++. The only difference is that I am 17 and from Canada. Let me know what language or tools you decide to use because I will likely use the same.

[Desert Dog]

I was in the same boat as you, about a year, 2 years ago, and used GM. I highly recommend it.

[ChevyRay]

I'll also drop in to pimp mention that both Adam Atomic's Flixel and my own FlashPunk ActionScript libraries are well-tutorialed and quite easy to get started on making games with. They are also free to use with programs such as FlashDevelop or Notepad++, so you're not putting any money down on a program that might not work for you.

The Flixel Wiki has a set of beginner's tutorials, and it's very easy to get a simple 2D sprite-based game up and running with a free program such as FlashDevelop. You can also check out the FlashPunk beginner tutorial on my forums if you want, which assumes absolutely no programming skill and helps you get started with a game so you can start wrapping your head around coding a bit more. We both also have communities available where you are free to drop in to ask questions and get active help.

That said, I've never used MMF, but I used Game Maker for several years and found it a very nice and handy program to work with (it is also very cheap for what you get). I would definitely recommend it for a beginner, as it's a good way to get comfortable with the game development procedure as well as coding, as it has useful scripting features available as well.

Cheers, and good luck!

[CRTSSLL]

Thanks CheveyRay. I poked around the two sites and both tools sound awesome! Although I am wondering is it still possible to compile either tools to the Iphone like flash?   

[ChevyRay]

I don't personally know much about Flash->iPhone porting, so I can't answer that question for you. There's lots of discussion about it on the Flixel forums though, and I notice that one fellow has attempted to port Flixel to Unity and can run it on his iPhone.

[Skofo]

I recommend LÖVE.

It is less popular and slightly more advanced than Game Maker and MMF2 in the sense that it does not have an IDE, but it is still geared for simplicity and there are many attractive advantages to it. Unlike GM and MMF2, LÖVE is completely free and open source, very cross-platform, uses a "real" scripting language (Lua), has built-in physics, and does not use catchall data files so you don't have to worry about your game file suddenly corrupting and rendering itself useless (happened to me more than once with Game Maker) and you are able to use a source control system.

Here is a tutorial for getting a character moving onscreen: http://love2d.org/wiki/Tutorial:Hamster_Ball

The biggest downside is probably the lack of many tutorials and game engines to learn from due to the aforementioned lack of community...

[ChevyRay]

I've always wanted to try out LÖVE, haven't gotten around to messing with Lua yet though.

[Skofo]

It's a pretty damn simple syntax to learn, actually. I got the hang of it after skimming through this. The 'Tables' section is the most important since they're pretty unique and extremely useful in Lua.

[CRTSSLL]

Thanks a lot ChevyRay, you have no idea how helpful you have been. The only question now is do I start learning Flixel or should I wait until Flixel for Iphone comes out? Learning Flixel should help speed up the process for learning how to use Flixel Iphone anyway so maybe I should just go ahead and start learning.      

[ChevyRay]

Yeah, if you've got the time now might as well get an early start, I say.

[Desert Dog]

Just to continue on the flashpunk note, I've been using it lately, and it's really fantastic, and much easier to use than the other 'flash' alternatives I've tried. However, in saying that, I don't think I'd have been capable of understanding it, if it wasn't for the time I spent learning GML... it's a bit more complex!

So it definitely has a recommendation from me, if your willing to give it a go, (it's still way easier than c++) but GM is definitely the best when it comes to ease of use+results+learning how to program, as far as I'm concerned.

[Mir@k]

I know this post will sound ambitious, naive and a bit stupid but, can you make RPG's using flixel?

[Grumpy Moose]

Thanks for all the replies everyone. A lot of the stuff that was mentioned looks really interesting, and I'll be checking them out over the next couple of weeks.

Thanks again 

[Mipe]

Give Construct a whirl. (Also, might want to grab the latest unstable release from forums instead of stable release).

[Akari]

I totally recommend trying out Construct as well. The work environment is somewhere between MMF and Game Maker, with more geared towards MMF. Benefits over MMF includes proper hardware acceleration, pixel shader support, a lot better coding environment (Construct event sheets are actually readable where MMF's spreadsheets aren't) and on top of that it's completely free. Downsides include that it's not as stable as MMF is due to not having reached 1.0 yet and being quite a lot younger in general.

I used MMF and other Clickteam programs for years and switched to Construct in 2008. Never looked back and never will, since Construct is pretty much everything MMF should have been and more.

As I haven't really used GM, I can't say how much it compares to it, other than that the Construct runtime is a lot faster than GM's. The downside is that right now Construct is single-platform only, Windows, whereas MMF2 can export to Java (though with limited extension support) and soon Flash and GM getting a Mac port someday. Construct 2 will be built with cross-platform support in mind, though, but it'll still be quite a while before we get that far.

[bento_smile]

I'm going to second the vote for Construct. I used MMF2 at first, then tried out Construct and didn't use MMF2 again! It's much easier to get a game going quickly in Construct than in MMF2. The biggest selling point was that it handled collisions a bit better by default than MMF2, in my experience.

[nikki]

Hello , what a well put question!

If we are recommending other languages/libraries too, i'd recommend Blitzmax
It's geared towards 2d games, cross platform (linux mac win) runs very fast, and is a clean and simple language to write in. (as opposed to c++ & OGL/DX Terror)

The problem i have with some of the game-making programs is that they use crazy programming under the hood and force you to learn to work just as crazy, you end up learning stuff that's bad practice, in my opinion your better off NOT learning such methods.To make matters worse you don't learn stuff that's essential to learn (like collision, tile based stuff, graphic programming, handling of data) So I opt to learn to code the more traditional way (in a IDE, with code and as little external libraries as possible)

However if you only want to worry about the game-design (instead of the actual learning to code) you are better of with the options you and other posters here have given you (mmf,gm,construct,flixel,flashpunk, etc) . I'd say try em all out see wich one feels good to you and don't look back for the next year!

And since your belgian and i am brabants I say "Houdoe!"