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[Graham Lexie]

I demand that you make a complete game out of this.
Also, please don't add clarification - figuring out why the hell I was "dying" was good fun! I'd rather you add more levels with even more ways to fail that are even more confusing :D

[Hempuli‽]

I demand that you make a complete game out of this.
Also, please don't add clarification - figuring out why the hell I was "dying" was good fun! I'd rather you add more levels with even more ways to fail that are even more confusing :D

Hehe, thanks! I guess I wont create a really real game out of this, but if I fix some bugs/improve the current version, I might be able to make it look more like a real game.

Hmm, I should first find out what thise other ways are! Most of the things in Mario games are Very Hard/Impossible to create backwards, sadly. :/

[Anifanatic]

I beat this game twice. The first time I thought I accidentally closed it after I finished so I did it again out of frustration to beat the game start the game. It made me facepalm as I finished it started it.

Some additional variation ideas:
* Maybe add mushrooms in so you can be big, and have to take a hit to get small.
* Bricks you have to unbreak.

[Hempuli‽]

I beat this game twice. The first time I thought I accidentally closed it after I finished so I did it again out of frustration to beat the game start the game. It made me facepalm as I finished it started it.

Some additional variation ideas:
* Maybe add mushrooms in so you can be big, and have to take a hit to get small.
* Bricks you have to unbreak.

Very cool ideas indeed. Mmph, all these nice suggestions make me think that I really should make another, better version.

[Loren Schmidt]

I already said this in IRC- but I really like this game. I'm glad you made it.

Nice work, Hempuli! 

[tagrag]

Very interesting concept for a game, although it's somewhat frustrating to play and kind of backs itself into a corner gameplay-wise.

Here is my idea for improving it, I know this makes it a different game but I think it would be much more fun for most people while still keeping the core idea: Instead of rewinding to the end of the level when the player creates a paradox, what if the game keeps creating "excuses" in the past to explain what just happened? So if you get hit by a fireball then you get bigger or something, if you un-jump too far then a squashed mushroom or a springboard appears where you land or you get a spring-shoes powerup or something to explain the jump, maybe you could even do really impossible things like dive through the lava and jump back out elsewhere as a killer robot...

...BUT, the more impossible things you do the more you get penalized and so the title screen at the end changes to reflect your actions (maybe the bad ending is a title screen that says "Super Cheater Bros.") and the earlier levels could even change before that so you can only see the "true" first level and title screen if you play with minimal impossible things up to that point. I imagine that would add a good amount of replay value right there, since at the least I'd play it a second time to try for the good ending, or if it's done really well then depending on my actions the paradox explanations could even morph the game into totally different and crazy games and I would want to experiment a lot with different ways of playing it to see all of them.

It's not too hard to come up with simple things that create new gameplay, for example if you hit an enemy and become big, then you have to find a mushroom to become small again; if you hit another enemy first then you get fire flower (or some other random) powerup and have to find one of those to become normal again and hit the block under it; if you hit another enemy then you become invincible and now you're on a time limit to find an invincibility star; if you don't find an invincibility star at all then that means you started the level with invincibility which gives you a huge "cheater" penalty.

The important thing is that it gives the player a challenge if they want to minimize the penalties and achieve the best "start", but it also gives the player the freedom to just keep going and playing an increasingly-ridiculous game if they want to. It gets rid of the need to force the player to re-play the same thing over and over, and you don't have to worry about how to make those confusing un-rewind scenes more intuitive since they aren't needed at all. But it presents the player with interesting choices all the time, since it will be easy and tempting to become more powerful but doing so builds up a debt they have to pay off if they don't want to see a bad ending.

It also gives you a lot more freedom with what you can put in the levels, for example you can put moving enemies and more complicated things from Mario games in the reverse-playing levels and not have to worry too much about making sure it's not too hard to create temporary paradoxes, and I'm sure you can come up with some really funny and wacky explanations for the would-be paradoxes and you could even randomize them to keep players on their toes and give them more variety. Sure it's all harder to program but I think it stands a chance of seriously becoming a "good game" this way.

Of course, when the player beats the game, it's crucial that you let them watch the whole thing playing forward as a reward. Also, some incentive to beat the game really fast while still following the rules would add even more replay value; maybe the scene that appears right "after" where the player starts the game could change, and it could be followed by a score breakdown that shows the time played and other things and factors them into an overall score.

[Hempuli‽]

Very interesting concept for a game, although it's somewhat frustrating to play and kind of backs itself into a corner gameplay-wise.

Here is my idea for improving it, I know this makes it a different game but I think it would be much more fun for most people while still keeping the core idea: Instead of rewinding to the end of the level when the player creates a paradox, what if the game keeps creating "excuses" in the past to explain what just happened? So if you get hit by a fireball then you get bigger or something, if you un-jump too far then a squashed mushroom or a springboard appears where you land or you get a spring-shoes powerup or something to explain the jump, maybe you could even do really impossible things like dive through the lava and jump back out elsewhere as a killer robot...

...BUT, the more impossible things you do the more you get penalized and so the title screen at the end changes to reflect your actions (maybe the bad ending is a title screen that says "Super Cheater Bros.") and the earlier levels could even change before that so you can only see the "true" first level and title screen if you play with minimal impossible things up to that point. I imagine that would add a good amount of replay value right there, since at the least I'd play it a second time to try for the good ending, or if it's done really well then depending on my actions the paradox explanations could even morph the game into totally different and crazy games and I would want to experiment a lot with different ways of playing it to see all of them.

It's not too hard to come up with simple things that create new gameplay, for example if you hit an enemy and become big, then you have to find a mushroom to become small again; if you hit another enemy first then you get fire flower (or some other random) powerup and have to find one of those to become normal again and hit the block under it; if you hit another enemy then you become invincible and now you're on a time limit to find an invincibility star; if you don't find an invincibility star at all then that means you started the level with invincibility which gives you a huge "cheater" penalty.

The important thing is that it gives the player a challenge if they want to minimize the penalties and achieve the best "start", but it also gives the player the freedom to just keep going and playing an increasingly-ridiculous game if they want to. It gets rid of the need to force the player to re-play the same thing over and over, and you don't have to worry about how to make those confusing un-rewind scenes more intuitive since they aren't needed at all. But it presents the player with interesting choices all the time, since it will be easy and tempting to become more powerful but doing so builds up a debt they have to pay off if they don't want to see a bad ending.

It also gives you a lot more freedom with what you can put in the levels, for example you can put moving enemies and more complicated things from Mario games in the reverse-playing levels and not have to worry too much about making sure it's not too hard to create temporary paradoxes, and I'm sure you can come up with some really funny and wacky explanations for the would-be paradoxes and you could even randomize them to keep players on their toes and give them more variety. Sure it's all harder to program but I think it stands a chance of seriously becoming a "good game" this way.

Of course, when the player beats the game, it's crucial that you let them watch the whole thing playing forward as a reward. Also, some incentive to beat the game really fast while still following the rules would add even more replay value; maybe the scene that appears right "after" where the player starts the game could change, and it could be followed by a score breakdown that shows the time played and other things and factors them into an overall score.

Thank you for the suggestions. Actually, there'll be a new version up soonish, though it's not created by me. A friend of mine enjoyed the idea and wanted to make a slightly better version. :D

[ShawnF]

Awesome game.  One small rule inconsistency that I didn't see mentioned, though...

Shouldn't you need to unkill all the Goombas to beat the level?  Otherwise you're creating the impossible situation of smushed Goombas that you never jumped on.  I pounded my head against the grassy level for a while before I just ran through purposely without killing one of them so I could see what was ahead, and accidentally beat the game even though I thought it was impossible.

[ElTipejoLoco]

Shawn: No need to kill an enemy that never spawned. Y'dig?

Anyway, Hempuli: This was awesome, and if you make another version, I'll be sure to have fun murdering my pinky while playing it. (unless you add gamepad support, in which case my pinky may not suffer so much)

[Dim_Yimma_H]

The idea seems great.

The game is really difficult.

It took me a while to figure out that I should get super high coins before landing on mushrooms. I just didn't get it, until now :D
(By the way, does it mean it "was" possible to bounce infinitely high, but "was" not possible to jump infinitely high?)

I believe the levels should be shorter than now, since they're based so much on trial and error. Just getting the right amount of coins is challenging, even with fewer enemies. The levels are addictive, even if they hurt a bit too much.

I really like the graphics, and I think you did a great proof of concept. Can we also get some easy, please? That would be even greater

[Hempuli‽]

The idea seems great.

The game is really difficult.

It took me a while to figure out that I should get super high coins before landing on mushrooms. I just didn't get it, until now :D
(By the way, does it mean it "was" possible to bounce infinitely high, but "was" not possible to jump infinitely high?)

I believe the levels should be shorter than now, since they're based so much on trial and error. Just getting the right amount of coins is challenging, even with fewer enemies. The levels are addictive, even if they hurt a bit too much.

I really like the graphics, and I think you did a great proof of concept. Can we also get some easy, please? That would be even greater
[/quote

Yeah, currently you're able to bounce infinitely. There'll be a new version coming.

[Dim_Yimma_H]

Yeah, currently you're able to bounce infinitely. There'll be a new version coming.

I want to clarify that I don't want to push you about the new stuff. I like the game, and I  especially liked the easy parts of it (it really is difficult!)

[agj]

Brilliant concept--good, if confusing at times, execution.

The coins that you didn't collect should still appear in the replay. Other than what increpare mentioned (that coins should 'kill' you if you touch them more than once), those are the only issues I can find. Good job!

By the way, I have AVG and I didn't experience any issues.

A suggestion: Instead of Esc, just pressing Shift should skip the 'forward play'. That makes it discoverable by just experimenting a bit.

[Sisyphus]

Yes a new version with more levels would be simply awesome. Hempuli your games rock indeed 

[Hempuli‽]

I've been such a lazy-ass that the new version still isn't here. But don't worry, it needs only some finishing touches. Like proper music.

[ExplodingCabbage]

Some thoughts (some may be confused since I never played any Mario games):
* Touching the ending flag after initially moving off it should kill you.
* There should be a key you can hold down when landing on a dead mushroom to decide not to unkill it.
* Touching coins you've already collected SHOULDN'T kill you, but in the replay you should collect them the last/first time you touch them, not the first/last time.

[Dacke]

Wow. Awesome concept, great game. Really hard, though.

[Fuzz]

My one qualm with the game was that I couldn't read the story screen when I got to the beginning, but otherwise I really liked it.

[Halcyon]

It took me far too long to realise that uncollecting too many coins 'killed' you, but otherwise really interesting and quite enjoyable game. 

[siiseli]

That game was awesometastic. Played through it.