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[feminazi]

using rape for shock value is like the jump scare of bad artists

i never seen any art actually have a point about rape and i doubt some guy who tells a lady to suck his dick has anything to say about it

[Blambo]

I don't see what the big deal is, I think anyone that finished Hotline Miami knows that Cactus and Wedin wouldn't a rape scene in the game if they didn't have a good reason for it.

In fact, isn't Hotline Miami about going out of your confort zone, losing control of yourself and question your own acts? I mean... do you like hurting other people?

I think the scene fits perfectly in the game.

Well the game's not out yet, but what I've heard from other sources (and Dragonmaw) it's done for a good thematic reason, so I agree with their doing what they want with their art.

Truth be told I'm not totally against any trivialization in games or any other medium, because consumers are responsible for their own moral delineations when dealing with fiction, and the art shouldn't be penalized for it. Real cultural problems can't really be entirely solved by attacking fiction.

using rape for shock value is like the jump scare of bad artists

I think Cactus and Wedin are smarter than that so their implementation is probably way above just "shock value". But I agree, relying on shock value for a whole piece is kitschy.

[feminazi]

i never played hotline but it looks like the 2d version of max payne 3 and rockstar seems to have similar ambitions of art = push the boundaries of being shit so i really dont care for it.
also he didnt want to make this sequel. the pub is making him... a little poppenkast "secret"

[mono]

using rape for shock value is like the jump scare of bad artists

i never seen any art actually have a point about rape and i doubt some guy who tells a lady to suck his dick has anything to say about it

this:

*cracks knuckles* Alright so I'm gonna talk about HLM2 since I talked to Dennis for like an hour and a half at E3 regarding this video game. Keep in mind that I am not commenting or condoning what happens, I'm just sharing what I was told.

Hotline Miami 2 is intended to be a reactionary game, specifically: the reaction of Dennaton to the reception Hotline Miami received, both good and bad.

The oft-talked about rape scene, which is inarguably the grossest scene in the demo and actually made me sick to my stomach, was explained as a reaction to complaints regarding the woman you rescue in the first game. It's contextualized as a movie showcasing the life of Jacket; the movie director is warping Jacket's life to fit a preconceived narrative: that Jacket was a rapist and that the woman he rescues in the first game was sexually assaulted and held in bondage.

isn't rape always used for shock to a certain extent? it has a few connotations such as helplessness and savageness. i agree that it rarely has a greater purpose but these guys actually have a good explanation.

[feminazi]

i don't believe them

[Blambo]

You should definitely play hotline miami to the end. It's not just a tasteless violence fest (though that statement is still inclusive).

[feminazi]

using rape for shock value is like the jump scare of bad artists

i never seen any art actually have a point about rape and i doubt some guy who tells a lady to suck his dick has anything to say about it

this:

*cracks knuckles* Alright so I'm gonna talk about HLM2 since I talked to Dennis for like an hour and a half at E3 regarding this video game. Keep in mind that I am not commenting or condoning what happens, I'm just sharing what I was told.

Hotline Miami 2 is intended to be a reactionary game, specifically: the reaction of Dennaton to the reception Hotline Miami received, both good and bad.

The oft-talked about rape scene, which is inarguably the grossest scene in the demo and actually made me sick to my stomach, was explained as a reaction to complaints regarding the woman you rescue in the first game. It's contextualized as a movie showcasing the life of Jacket; the movie director is warping Jacket's life to fit a preconceived narrative: that Jacket was a rapist and that the woman he rescues in the first game was sexually assaulted and held in bondage.

isn't rape always used for shock to a certain extent? it has a few connotations such as helplessness and savageness.

that's because there is never a story about rape. it's just another "action scene" in every single "art"

edit edit edit edit: it has a "good explanation" story wise, but still not a good explanation on why it's there

[mono]

that's because there is never a story about rape. it's just another "action scene" in every single "art"

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0290673/

[feminazi]

that's because there is never a story about rape. it's just another "action scene" in every single "art"

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0290673/

still another action scene.

[mono]

it's hard to make anything else of it.

[Blambo]

that's because there is never a story about rape. it's just another "action scene" in every single "art"

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0290673/

still another action scene.

What's wrong with that? It's not trivializing rape at all.

I get the sense that because of the violence desensitization in media, people tend to associate action scenes with triviality, though plenty of movies, books, and games handle action scenes very well.

[feminazi]

that's because there is never a story about rape. it's just another "action scene" in every single "art"

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0290673/

still another action scene.

What's wrong with that? It's not trivializing rape at all.

I get the sense that because of the violence desensitization in media, people tend to associate action scenes with triviality, though plenty of movies, books, and games handle action scenes very well.

i'm making the distinction between rape as action and an actual story about rape.

[Blambo]

Then yes, if it's used in a story as just another scene without any consequences (i.e. Tom Cruise in Ghost Protocol jumping 400 feet and slamming into a concrete floor only to be totally okay in the next minute) then it's trivializing.

[Faust06]

the difference is that it's a game *about* violence, it's not a game about rape. making the violence optional would make no sense, it's a lot easier to just remove one out of place part than to replace the entire work

So if a game is *about* a horrible act, then it's sanctioned? I don't buy it. Pulp Fiction wasn't about rape or violence. Irreversible wasn't *about* rape either. Innumerable movies aren't *about* violence, but gleefully include it. Are you going to be consistent and condemn those as well?

Next we'll need a disclaimer for showing tits and mentioning the Holocaust.

Then yes, if it's used in a story as just another scene without any consequences (i.e. Tom Cruise in Ghost Protocol jumping 400 feet and slamming into a concrete floor only to be totally okay in the next minute) then it's trivializing.

Whether something is meant to be trivial probably depends on the author's intention. Considering we're talking about rape, I don't imagine it would be the case.

[feminazi]

what i'm saying is if rape is what you want to push, put me in the head of a rapist or a rape victim or a bystander or something. don't give me a stupid "oh she got raped now shes a superhero or have to exact revenge" bullshit and pretend you're pushing some kind of imaginary art boundary.

the difference is that it's a game *about* violence, it's not a game about rape. making the violence optional would make no sense, it's a lot easier to just remove one out of place part than to replace the entire work

So if a game is *about* a horrible act, then it's sanctioned? I don't buy it. Pulp Fiction wasn't about rape or violence. Irreversible wasn't *about* rape either. Innumerable movies aren't *about* violence, but gleefully include it. Are you going to be consistent and condemn those as well?

Next we'll need a disclaimer for showing tits and mentioning the Holocaust.

its not sanctioned its harder to remove. learn to read

Whether something is meant to be trivial probably depends on the author's intention. Considering we're talking about rape, I don't imagine it would be the case.

"because rape is a serious topic, artists don't use it trivially"

[Schoq]

So hey, depicting violence towards a disadvantaged subgroup of society might have to be treated with a little more care and respect than depicting violence in general. Just a crazy thought?

Like is that really so mind twisting for some people?

It should be really obvious why a guy getting punched in the face can be almost universally funny while a rape scene can't, yet we get discussions like this one?

[deathtotheweird]

I don't think it's that fair to say that when rape is used to shock audiences, it's done by bad artists.

if you want to shock an audience you don't really have a ton of options. most of us are desensitized to violence. if you really want to shock an audience or make a point in demonstrating the brutality and depravity of a person or group, you have to do something that isn't as overused as 'simple' violence. Kubrick did this in A Clockwork Orange and John Boorman did it in Deliverance. And those guys are a far cry from being 'bad artists'.

[HöllenKobold]

It should be really obvious why a guy getting punched in the face can be almost universally funny while a rape scene can't, yet we get discussions like this one?

dont punch people in the face thats rude

[Superb Joe]

if you want to use rape in a story you had better be a good writer. and if you are writing the story to a video game you are not that guy.

[deathtotheweird]

obviously what makes a writer good is highly subjective, it's pointless to say only good writers are allowed to use certain things when there is no objective definition for 'good writer'.