Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

 
Advanced search

1411543 Posts in 69383 Topics- by 58442 Members - Latest Member: vicemask

May 03, 2024, 03:28:36 AM

Need hosting? Check out Digital Ocean
(more details in this thread)
TIGSource ForumsDeveloperAudioNeed some advice on composing video game music.
Pages: [1] 2
Print
Author Topic: Need some advice on composing video game music.  (Read 3825 times)
FawfulBeans
Level 1
*


View Profile
« on: June 07, 2012, 04:17:15 AM »

I've been trying to write some music for one of my games. I'm not exactly spectacular at this but I can more or less get by.

However, I'm very uncomfortable with making a piece that'll play for relatively long stretches of the game. I managed to squeeze out all three boss tracks within a few days because they'll all play for relatively fleeting moments and I don't have to worry too much about any grating repetition.

But when it comes to a main level theme I find myself worrying and messing things up and starting over and over again because I don't want it to get too repetitive and offend anyone's ears.


How can I make a looping piece of music that won't get too annoying and repetitive without making it ridiculously convoluted?
Logged
MoritzPGKatz
Level 3
***


"Was he an animal, that music could move him so?"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2012, 04:25:42 AM »

Hello,

There are many factors that play into this - too complicated rhythms, too boring rhythms, too quick harmonic changes, too arbitrary melodies, too bland melodies, too quick pace, too slow pace, too harsh sound...

Why don't you just post some of your music, maybe along with a gameplay video? That way it's much easier to tell what could be improved - at this point, it's just guesswork.

Cheers,
Moritz
Logged

Arcadian Atlas now on Steam!
>120 minute jazz OST on my Bandcamp
Vinyl pre-orders available
Head of Music at German Wahnsinn Studios
GavinHarrisonSounds
Level 1
*


View Profile WWW
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2012, 04:27:34 AM »

My advice would be to keep it simple!
Logged

FawfulBeans
Level 1
*


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2012, 12:37:06 PM »

Hello,

There are many factors that play into this - too complicated rhythms, too boring rhythms, too quick harmonic changes, too arbitrary melodies, too bland melodies, too quick pace, too slow pace, too harsh sound...

Why don't you just post some of your music, maybe along with a gameplay video? That way it's much easier to tell what could be improved - at this point, it's just guesswork.

Cheers,
Moritz

Thanks for the reply. I was looking for general advice but I guess it was pretty naive of me to expect people to magically know what I'm doing wrong or right.

This is the latest incarnation of the first level's soundtrack. It loops around thirty seconds in and so far I'm pretty happy with it. I want to make it longer without making it too convoluted but when I've tried this in the past it ends up being a complete mess.






My advice would be to keep it simple!
This is what I've been trying to do. Structurally I'm not sure if this is a good idea or whether I have an idea of what that means.
Logged
MoritzPGKatz
Level 3
***


"Was he an animal, that music could move him so?"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2012, 02:25:33 PM »

Not too shabby!

Your track already has some nice twists to it, I really like the B part starting at 00:16.

My major point of criticism would be the piano sound - it lacks dynamics. Especially the low notes sound like a robot is playing it. With a hammer. Wink
Either play around with different velocity values, and if the instrument doesn't react to it, choose a different one - or completely go with chip sounds.

What you could do is - and here I completely agree with Gavin - do less. Most of your track is pretty "busy" and I somehow like it 'cause it seems to match the gameplay. If you want to make the track longer to avoid too much repetition and you can't or don't want to fit another different chord progression in there, why not have the beat drop out for a few bars? Or let just one instrument play and have the others gradually fade in?

You've got a good start there. Experiment with the arrangement a bit, I'm sure you'll end up with something really good.

Cheers,
Moritz
Logged

Arcadian Atlas now on Steam!
>120 minute jazz OST on my Bandcamp
Vinyl pre-orders available
Head of Music at German Wahnsinn Studios
FawfulBeans
Level 1
*


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2012, 12:18:44 PM »

Thanks for the help. I tried messing around with the volume of the piano's low notes, I can't say I can hear much difference but that might be because I'm insaiyanI've just been listening to it over and over as I added to it. Speaking of which I've added a new section that starts around 0.45, which I think sounds ok. It loops around 1.12.

http://soundcloud.com/fawesomebeans/climb-wip-2

I also added some extra stuff to the repeated first section that plays before the new bit. I don't quite like it but felt I should change some stuff the second time it plays.
Logged
Superpowism
Level 0
**



View Profile
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2012, 03:01:40 PM »

I think it all depends on the style of game you're going for. I actually really like your song and depending on the style of game I think it would fit really well.
Logged

FelixArifin
Level 1
*


View Profile WWW
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2012, 04:26:47 PM »

Um. Wow. This sounds amazing. :D

What I suggest, since this is a climbing game, and the player's speed is mainly determined by the spikes on the floor, is maybe add more and more layers to the arrangement? I think you have the right amount of instruments for the song, but maybe just make it more complicated as you get higher to your goal.

Add more notes playing in the background, more percussion, etc.?

To be honest, I think the folks above me have a much more fair point though - if you keep the song simple, it'll turn out much better than you'd expect.

Good luck with the project!

Felix
Logged

tipp
Level 1
*


View Profile WWW
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2012, 08:28:44 PM »

you go fawful your game looks sweet!

if you could manage what FelixArifin said with the whole adding more and more parts the higher up the ladder you get that would be cool. personally if you can't get the piano to sound more organic, i would just make it chiptuney like the rest of the song.

anyway cool stuff i'm looking forward to playing this baby
Logged

Graham-
Level 10
*****


ftw


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2012, 02:04:17 AM »

Your game is really funny. I love the death comments, "Oh SNAP," "What a bother!" Smiley.
Logged
MoritzPGKatz
Level 3
***


"Was he an animal, that music could move him so?"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2012, 03:32:35 AM »

personally if you can't get the piano to sound more organic, i would just make it chiptuney like the rest of the song.
Yes, that's what I meant too... I wasn't talking about the volume of the piano, but about its sound.
I don't know what you're using to produce your music, but in a MIDI sequencer the velocity value triggers not only different volumes, but different samples as well. At least with a decently sampled piano.
Play a note softly on the piano and it will not only sound more quiet, but will also have different (typically less) overtones, as a result of the hammer hitting the string with less velocity and the resulting physical phenomenons that are actually quite fascinating.

Of course, this doesn't really apply to true "8-bit" chip sounds - which makes this genre so exciting and also fairly challenging. Creating a dynamic arrangement without having dynamic instruments at one's disposal is quite a task.
There are acoustic instruments that have the same barriers, by the way - like organs, harpsichords, or (to a certain degree) pizzicato strings.
As a consequence, these instruments mix pretty well with lo-fi synths and samples that don't have any filter or volume envelopes. But I digress...

Cheers,
Moritz
Logged

Arcadian Atlas now on Steam!
>120 minute jazz OST on my Bandcamp
Vinyl pre-orders available
Head of Music at German Wahnsinn Studios
FawfulBeans
Level 1
*


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2012, 02:46:37 PM »

Wow. Thanks for the encouragement and, much-valued, advice.

I haven't abandoned this thread, I had taken a break without realising it, but I've been working on the second main track, which is another new composition. I'll post up a demo of it when there's more of it.

What I suggest, since this is a climbing game, and the player's speed is mainly determined by the spikes on the floor, is maybe add more and more layers to the arrangement? I think you have the right amount of instruments for the song, but maybe just make it more complicated as you get higher to your goal.
This is way I could go about it. Adding more layers is something I've been tending to overlook. I'll play around with the idea when I'm 'composing'.

As for using it as a sort of track which syncs with the gameplay as it builds, it would require a different sort of sytem than the one I've had in mind and am using. Because it wouldn't be able to loop without losing the effect, I think. I may be looking into it too much, but that's what it feels like to me.
Quote
Add more notes playing in the background, more percussion, etc.?

To be honest, I think the folks above me have a much more fair point though - if you keep the song simple, it'll turn out much better than you'd expect.
Yes, I've been trying to do this. It seems slightly counter-intuitive but I think it's the way to go.
Quote
Good luck with the project!

Felix
Thank you.



if you could manage what FelixArifin said with the whole adding more and more parts the higher up the ladder you get that would be cool. personally if you can't get the piano to sound more organic, i would just make it chiptuney like the rest of the song.
Tipp, you ragamuffin. I think each of the three tracks get more 'dramatic' as they go up but that's about it.


personally if you can't get the piano to sound more organic, i would just make it chiptuney like the rest of the song.
Yes, that's what I meant too... I wasn't talking about the volume of the piano, but about its sound.
I don't know what you're using to produce your music, but in a MIDI sequencer the velocity value triggers not only different volumes, but different samples as well. At least with a decently sampled piano.
Play a note softly on the piano and it will not only sound more quiet, but will also have different (typically less) overtones, as a result of the hammer hitting the string with less velocity and the resulting physical phenomenons that are actually quite fascinating.

Of course, this doesn't really apply to true "8-bit" chip sounds - which makes this genre so exciting and also fairly challenging. Creating a dynamic arrangement without having dynamic instruments at one's disposal is quite a task.
There are acoustic instruments that have the same barriers, by the way - like organs, harpsichords, or (to a certain degree) pizzicato strings.
As a consequence, these instruments mix pretty well with lo-fi synths and samples that don't have any filter or volume envelopes. But I digress...

Cheers,
Moritz

What I'm using to create the piano sound is the spectacularly sophisticated FruityLoops' default piano vst. It seems It doesn't do soft sounding notes.

Replacing it so the track is entirely of a 'chip' kind of sound I think is off-limits. This is because I've already written a lot of the other tracks, and none of them are in the chip style. They all use orchestral soundfonts and, even though piano isn't exactly in keeping, chiptune would be even more out of place.


It's late and I need to be up in the morning so I'll leave it at this. Later tomorrow I'll upload some of my other tracks for this game and maybe a WIP of the new one if I do enough too it.
Logged
Calum Bowen
Level 4
****



View Profile WWW
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2012, 04:05:59 AM »

Just as a completely different comment and i didn't completely scour through the thread to see if anyone already said this BUT...

I think some wind sounds could really help to gel the image and music together - i'm watching the gameplay and listening to the soundcloud track and they don't really gel. Another thing is that the art style is lovely and kinda painted with dulled colours and both the music you've written and the instruments you've written for seem to suggest a far more bright colourful matter-of-face kind of squarey kinda game. This one is far more fluid. I understand that my advice kinda hints at a total overhaul on the music so please take it or leave it. In anything though adding a little wind sound I think could really contextualise the sound with the image and then they'll really gel.
Logged

FawfulBeans
Level 1
*


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2012, 10:42:12 AM »

Thanks for the response. I'm worried about how well the soundtrack will go and you're probably right about that. But this game is so overdue I just want to get it over and done with, so long as it's passable.

When you say wind sounds do you mean brass kinds of sounds or panpipes, flutes etc?



Here's the rest of what I've done, It's was all made before the one I posted in this thread and they kind of don't match each other.

http://soundcloud.com/fawesomebeans/sets/jacobs-restaurant

I haven't posted a WIP of my newest because I'm having a bit of trouble making it;
Logged
Calum Bowen
Level 4
****



View Profile WWW
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2012, 11:45:41 AM »

i meant wind SFX sounds. The kind you may expect to hear climbing a ladder high into the sky!

Don't worry about it if you made the game, you have only yourself to please. The music is passable for sure - honestly, it doesn't stand out to me as anything special - but i don't think it'll negatively effect your game too much at all. Congrats on making it! Make sure you post a link here when you're releasing Smiley
Logged

FawfulBeans
Level 1
*


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2012, 07:49:12 AM »

Oh I see. That's actually really easy to implement I could just have seperate loop play in the background that gets louder higher up. It would provide some nice atmosphere. Actually, now I want to have lightning in the background, that could make the final boss pretty cool.

Anyway I've done a WIP of the second level theme and uploaded it. It feels structurally wrong in places and frankly I should have included one loop in this upload so you guys can get a better feel for how it transitions at that end.

http://soundcloud.com/fawesomebeans/climb2-wip
Logged
petertos
Level 3
***



View Profile WWW
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2012, 08:34:27 AM »

My advice is:

if you have file size available, make different parts in the song (like the mario bros one)

if you have just a bit of space, make one easy short loop and repeat it thousand times LOL  Gentleman
Logged

FawfulBeans
Level 1
*


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2012, 11:13:31 AM »

My advice is:

if you have file size available, make different parts in the song (like the mario bros one)

That's what I've been trying my hand at. It's pretty tricky getting it all to sound like the same track.
Logged
Ackter
Level 0
*


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2012, 07:00:54 AM »

I absolutely love that first loop. Fair play.

The only criticism is that everything is full volume, there's no dynamics on show. I think some others have made the same point earlier in the thread.

Both your tracks are very consistent and they work really well together.

I'd suggest needing a third track which is a complete dynamic opposite, something simple and quiet that can be a link between them.
Logged
BattleBeard
Level 6
*


please touch me


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2012, 12:11:19 PM »

 Okay, take this from an actual chipscene bro here.

Real instruments and your chip instruments sound weird together. I liked the first climb song. Are you sure you don't want to go with a full 8-bit approach? If so, use Famitracker, which creates offical NES music you can play on a real NES too. I use that and it's a easy to use program.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2
Print
Jump to:  

Theme orange-lt created by panic