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[quan]

I watched Akira again for the first time since I was like ten, I love how sleazy and surreal that movie is.
You can tell it's from the late 80's era of animation but it doesn't seem dated in anyway to me.

[HöllenKobold]

+1 Jimym

Good writing always matters.
I would watch a well written movie without action over the most action packed movie out there.

none of the original movies were even well written in any sense

[s0]

but the writing in the force awakens was decent. it's not like writing was ever the greatest strength of star wars to begin with. especially the dialog writing is much better than  

a new hope had almost as many lucky coincidences and deus ex machina moments. just imagine it was presdestination because the force or some shit. i also don't get your beef with the characters. none of the characters in star wars were ever "deep" and it was always filled with archetypes. vader is a standard sociopathic villain (in the first 2 movies at least), the emperor is a classic evil overlord, yoda is the "eccentric reclusive master" character that is in so many wuxia movies, han solo is a typical charming rogue, luke's personality and character arc are pretty standard for heroes, etc. etc. actually, kylo ren is probably "deeper" and more multifaceted in his characterization than vader was in the original trilogy in some ways.

plus, star wars was always cartoonish.

the thing is, i didn't go into this expecting a masterpiece and im not super invested in the lore of star wars despite having a fondness for it due to childhood nostalgia.

[gimymblert]

I'm saying it's the level below that

[gimymblert]

But I don't think kylo ren was any deeper than vador, most vador action was driven by the rfact he tried to reunite with his son and share glory with him. That's way deeper than emo kylo ren. In fact that's the whole plot of the 3 OG movies.

Else they would have bombed hoth from orbit and not have a general get on ground.

[s0]

Else they would have bombed hoth from orbit and not have a general get on ground.

the reason they didn't bomb hoth from orbit was because shields. i literally just watched the movie a few weeks ago.

[Schoq]

didn't vader also want luke alive though?
I dunno why some people have such trouble enjoying cartoons as soon as they happen to be live action

[gimymblert]

It was a rhetorical phrases

What I meant is that there is an underlying theme of father and son, starting with the lightsaber of your father to the funeral of the father. It's strong motif through all the movie and it makes the movie more relevant than the dark side/light side. It has element of regret, and instead of having the villain TELLING i'm torn by the light, they SHOW vader's anger, jubiliation, and doubts when he is with his son. It's about family, the rest is just a supporting structure, it really is about the character, even when luke is confronted to his darkside on dagobah it's SOWNas something more introspective, as expectation and choice. Both movie are manichean, but one actually believe in its worldview and treat it honestly. SW7 is about the plot and the plot is disjointed, it's good entertainment though, like a mickael bay movie. Even the prequel was about a "big idea" like complacence of "good guy™" leading to rise of evil.

: P

Also I only seen the movies twice, once as a kid when it was on TV then the remarster at the cinema.

And I say cartoon, I say "cartoonish version" ie it's even more cartoon and simplified, that's the difference between some random cartoon show on nickoledeon and ghibli.

[gimymblert]

I want to precise, I don't think the structure is bad, I think the movie lack some small moment to sell some scene.

For example: the scene where Finn realize it's not for him, it would be better if there was an introductory scene where he is shown talking to mate and sharing his doubts, in fact 2 mates, the one who dies and leave the mark on the helmet who reassure him and another mate who is sold to the glory of the order and later challenge him (nicknamed tr-8r) because he deserted. Done. Just 3 phrases min to strengthen the character, make much more natural than he start deserting and helping poe out of sudden.

Rey too lack some characterization, we have no real motivation for her and for a lot of important character.

Edit: even phasma could have a better dynamic with finn with just a few more line and better shot. Instead of the throw away scene we have.

[Torchkas]

I've never seen a Star Wartles.
I'm not sure if I want to.

[ｂ∀ ｋｋｕｓａ]

Are those spoilers Jimym? I didn't read or watch anything related to  Star wars yet so i don't have any idea who is who so it's ok.

[gimymblert]

Finn stuff is literally the beginning, the tr 8r scene is in the trailers, so nothing major, That's why I can't pick other example. But the movie is really predictable anyway. Just take it with low expectation and enjoy the actions.

[Canned Turkey]

words

none of the original movies were even well written in any sense

They weren't exceptional, but they're sure as hell better than the new one.

[FrankieSmileShow]

I liked the new star wars. I think its clearly on par with the original series, and I'm excited to see the following ones and whatever spinoffs they make.
Obviously, being very derivative of A New Hope doesn't help, kind of wish they had done their own thing more, but I suppose they want the first movie to be reassuring and are gonna go a bit more off the books in the sequels. I'll be pretty disappointed if they don't, but I expect I would watch them anyway.

Its hard for me to say if I like Force Awakens more than A New Hope though, I've watched it so many times, I don't think those nostalgia goggles can come off, its a permanent rose-tinted color imprint in my retina at this point.

I think I like the slower paced, simpler story of a New Hope a bit better. It felt like we were on a little tour of this new fantasy universe following the adventures of two robots, something about it felt very small, circumstantial, and very slowly grew into a grand adventure. I didn't really get that feeling from the new movie at all, despite how closely its events are inspired of the other film. I wonder if anyone sees this, or if it was just the effect of my child's imagination back then, and both movies have it just the same.

[s0]

didn't vader also want luke alive though?
I dunno why some people have such trouble enjoying cartoons as soon as they happen to be live action

i enjoy live action cartoons more than actual cartoons tbh

For example: the scene where Finn realize it's not for him, it would be better if there was an introductory scene where he is shown talking to mate and sharing his doubts, in fact 2 mates, the one who dies and leave the mark on the helmet who reassure him and another mate who is sold to the glory of the order and later challenge him (nicknamed tr-8r) because he deserted. Done. Just 3 phrases min to strengthen the character, make much more natural than he start deserting and helping poe out of sudden.

it worked for me. you can see he is having doubts in the opening scene when he's sad about his comrade's death and then refuses to kill the villagers. you have to remember that stormtroopers are brainwashed from birth to have no empathy and mindlessly follow orders. so both of these things were already highly unusual. he was supposed to be sent to some sort of "reprogramming" before he deserted.

noooo now im getting into nerd discussions 

[Cobralad]

why didnt they use eagles to destroy the death star

[s0]

too lack some characterization, we have no real motivation for her and for a lot of important character.

maybe, but there isn't much characterization for luke in a new hope either. rey is a scavenger who lost her family and discovers she is force sensitive. luke is a farm boy who loses his family and finds out he is force sensitive. there isn't a super strong motivation for luke either until we find out who he really is in the empire strikes back. the force awakens is the beginning of a new trilogy and im pretty sure we'll find out more about rey and other characters like finn and kylo ren in eps 8 and 9.

btw i have not read the books and don't care about them, so i couldn't care less if the new movies follow them. also isnt the "expanded universe" crap considered non-canon to begin with?

[Canned Turkey]

The expanded universe had a lot of really good bits like the new jedi order, and it used to be canon.
It's only non-canon because of the new movies.

[Schoq]

dumb she's getting gradual motivation from feeling sorry for a robot to being charmed by rebel guy to being caught up in all the other stuff on top of OBVIOUSLY being shown having dreams of adventure plus having nothing at all tying her to her planet other than a desperate hope

nerd discussions are the best btw

[ｂ∀ ｋｋｕｓａ]