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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperPlaytestingRoach Toaster 2 Beta.
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Author Topic: Roach Toaster 2 Beta.  (Read 12052 times)
Tr00jg
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« on: August 18, 2007, 08:30:55 AM »

/////
UPDATE!

v0.85 is up (with a campaign)

////

Ahoy.

I have been working on Roach Toaster 2 for a while now. I now really really need help in testing and balancing it.

Who am I?

I am Simon "Tr00jg" de la Rouviere (from South Africa). I am in my senior year of school and I like game dev. Tongue

What is Roach Toaster 2?

Roach Toaster 2 is a sequel (of course). Roach Toaster 2 is a unique blend of turn-based strategy/puzzle and top-down shooting.

Roach Toaster 2 is currently in the beta phase after more than a year of developing it as a hobby. I plan to sell it.

I really need in help in balancing all the levels. For this I set up my forum. If you want, you can join it and help with the intricate testing. Otherwise, just play it here and tell me what you think!

2mb (NEW V0.85)
DOWNLOAD HERE

Testing-helper shortcuts:

-"Q" kills all the roaches in the level.

SCREENIES:

v0.85 screenie
Menu



Beta (v0.75 screenies).
A level


Current known still-to-fixes:

-Spelling errors (d'oh).
-Unpolished scrolling text.

-Adjust the mouse cursor to show that the round is in progress (like the Windows hourglass).

CREDITS:
See text file.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2007, 02:28:08 PM by Tr00jg » Logged
Tr00jg
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« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2007, 11:24:47 AM »

Added screenies to convince apprehensive testers. Smiley

I have not been able to dev on it a bit more because of exams.
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Guert
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« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2007, 11:31:40 AM »

Ah good idea!
I'm putting this on my list to check...
Later!
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handCraftedRadio
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« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2007, 04:24:15 PM »

I started playing this game and i found a few bugs. Actually a lot of bugs. But luckily I was able to destroy them... Undecided

I think this is a pretty cool concept for a game. Its pretty fun, but it is still lacking in a lot of areas. The main thing that could make this better is the graphics. It would be a lot cooler if the tiles were different from just solid orange and white. I only played a few levels, and I'm not sure if the tiles change later on, but there definitely needs to be a more variety of graphics on the screen at once. I also think adding animations to the movement would make it a lot cooler as well.

As for balancing out the game, the shot gun units need to be a lot more expensive. I found no reason to buy the long ranged units ever. The shotgun guys are the best in almost any situation.

And why does it say "Gray Out" whenever you hit the end turn button while the turn animation is happening?

I like the concept and gameplay a lot. Its cool you do not have direct control over your units. Keep working on it and it could be a great game! Keep up the good work! Grin
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Tr00jg
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« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2007, 12:46:39 AM »

Thanks a lot for helping with the feedback!

Yep, I am aware the shotgunners own way too much.

As for the graphics, I am also working on that. I got a new sprite artist recently. I am not too sure how to add variance, but I'll think of something.

As for the "Gray Out". You are not supposed to end a round after the previous is not done. The "End Round" button is supposed to fade/gray out to show that the round is still busy. I just put that popup message there to remember myself about it.

By the way, you are the first who did not ask me, "Why cant I move the units after I placed them?". Tongue

Thanks for playing.
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fish
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« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2007, 08:18:57 AM »

i think you could improve your graphics a whole lot just by using better color harmonies. for sure the new sprites will make it better but its pretty fast and easy to just change colors.

check out www.kuler.com for some sweet sweet color swatches that you shouldnt hesitate to just steal and use in your games.

good color hamronies can go a loooong way.
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Nate Kling
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« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2007, 08:43:37 AM »

making better graphics can make the whole game play more fun.  I pictured futuristic soldiers blasting gigantic scaly bugs.  But whatever you choose to make, more detail in the graphics i think will go along way.
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Tr00jg
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« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2007, 10:06:44 AM »

Thanks for the replies.

I got "graphics" feedback all over (other forums too). Looks that is my main concern right now. Thanks guys!
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Guert
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« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2007, 09:25:11 AM »

Just a quick message to tell you that I haven't forgotten about you, I'm just very busy lately. I think I'll have something to post this weekend...
Later!
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Tr00jg
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« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2007, 12:28:53 PM »

Just a quick message to tell you that I haven't forgotten about you, I'm just very busy lately. I think I'll have something to post this weekend...
Later!


Hey thanks! I really appreciate it. I have already started changing how the levels look. I am just experimenting though. Smiley
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Tr00jg
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« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2007, 12:17:52 PM »

Ahoy.

I experimented with a new "level" look. The previous "walls" have been made to look like buildings. The ground is going to look like a dirty street, ie blotches of random black-stuff, old newspapers, etc. The current tiles will now be transparent over this "dirty street". Its still sketchy, but what do you think of the idea? I will definitely add the "dirty street" look , but what about the walls. Do you like the concept?

Here is 3 different versions: (The entire UI is not done yet).





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Guert
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« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2007, 09:23:49 AM »

Hello there!

Ok so here we go! Here are some random comments...

The menu at the bottom of the screen isn't intuitive enough. The positions of the importnat info should be placed on top. You could have something like that:

Team          Save
     New team
Music         Back

Also, when the guys are speaking, put the icon of the mouse clicking in only one place in screen not at two places alternatly. it's annoying. I suggets that you put the second face aligned the same way as the first (align it next to the menu buttons)

The graphics are a little flat but you alreayd know that. The grid in the main screen is way too strong. It should displayed under the elemnts, such as the buildings, and have less contrast with the rest of the screen. Perhaps a lighter shade of grey. The blakc background doens't really help either, it makes the screen empty.

We loose the text telling our current money. Put it in something so it doens't float around like that.

Arrows on top of the buildings, not underneath it! Smiley

So what's the difference between the buildings?  You should explain what impact this choice will have on the game to the player.

I had to click around for 3-4 minutes before I found where to click to start the game... Tell us exactly where to click so we don,t have to guess. If there are some locked area, they gotta be marked as locked somehow.

Ok, in-game stuff... I don't like the fact that you have some room for a toolbar at the bottom or at the top but we have to press right-click to pop-up a menu to select a unit. If you wnat to stick with the right-click menu, make it so that clicking in the lower parts of the screen won't display the menu outside of the screen.

When I select a unit, I cannot easily deselect it (unless closing the menu). Clicking another unit should deselct it and select the new one.

The way that the cost of units raises with each unit is a bit wonky. I mena, why does it cost alot during one round and not in the next one? I feel like if you want to have this challenge, you should make it that the price permenanlty raises for the duration of the level. This would be a good puzzle element to have.

Yes, the shotguns are pretty nasty. The melee have no use. The ranger is nice at first but once the map is uncovered (mostly using one or two ranger), shotguns are the only wepon needed

There's not enough feedback on what happens between round. You need to show us what is going on so we can tell which are the good positions when placing the units. Right now, we're not sure why our guys die. Sure there are some bugs near them but we can't know exactly why two guys died when they were only one bug that spawned. 

My units should be a lot smarter. Instead of all shooting the same bug, they should each shoot one. Too many times, 12 to 20 shots are made toward only one bug when there are like 10 other bugs in-range. Make it so that they are a bit turned based. One shoots then another shoots.

Once the level is over, the player has no idea how to retunr to the level selection screen

In the first level, I got only 3 units and on the second I got like 12. You need to have to introduce us to these units over time. Also, I tried them and I still find that the only one useful is the shotgun. You need to make all units useful for something. Try to think of anything the player needs: single enmy destruction, mass destruction, spawing time slow down, heal, protection, teleporting etc... Then make units out of those various needs. This way you'll be sure that eahc units aren't there just to be cool: they fill a game need.

Confirmation on exiting the game screen and the application! I can't stress that enough! You'd be surprised to see how many times a miss clicks happens Wink Smiley

What's the use of the profile name? It would be a good thing to put the profile option higher in the menu option list... A bit like this:
New Game
Continue
Edit profile
Tutorial
Exit

The main menu artwork doesn't really fit the rest of the game. Why? It would be good to have artwork that matches everywhere...

Well, that's it for now... The game shows good potential but there are still some issues to fix. Don't give up, I think you have something going on...
Talk to you later!
Guert
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Tr00jg
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« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2007, 03:26:30 AM »

Quote
Hello there!

Hello!

Quote
The menu at the bottom of the screen isn't intuitive enough. The positions of the importnat info should be placed on top. You could have something like that:

Team          Save
     New team
Music         Back

Yep. I haven't gotten around to implementing a new UI yet, but I'll take in consideration.

Quote
Also, when the guys are speaking, put the icon of the mouse clicking in only one place in screen not at two places alternatly. it's annoying. I suggets that you put the second face aligned the same way as the first (align it next to the menu buttons)

Okay, on the mouse clicker. I dunno about re-aligning the 2nd face, since I like the symmetry of the layout...

Quote
The graphics are a little flat but you alreayd know that. The grid in the main screen is way too strong. It should displayed under the elemnts, such as the buildings, and have less contrast with the rest of the screen. Perhaps a lighter shade of grey. The blakc background doens't really help either, it makes the screen empty.

Okay.

Quote
We loose the text telling our current money. Put it in something so it doens't float around like that.

Yep, this is because I haven't gotten around to making the new UI.

Quote
Arrows on top of the buildings, not underneath it! Smiley

As far as I know, it is... The arrow was not on the starting places right?

Quote
So what's the difference between the buildings?  You should explain what impact this choice will have on the game to the player.

Are you mentioning the starting buildings?

Quote
I had to click around for 3-4 minutes before I found where to click to start the game... Tell us exactly where to click so we don,t have to guess. If there are some locked area, they gotta be marked as locked somehow.

Oh okay. This is after you placed your team at a starting point right?

Quote
Ok, in-game stuff... I don't like the fact that you have some room for a toolbar at the bottom or at the top but we have to press right-click to pop-up a menu to select a unit. If you wnat to stick with the right-click menu, make it so that clicking in the lower parts of the screen won't display the menu outside of the screen.

Okay.

Quote
When I select a unit, I cannot easily deselect it (unless closing the menu). Clicking another unit should deselct it and select the new one.

Sure.

Quote
The way that the cost of units raises with each unit is a bit wonky. I mena, why does it cost alot during one round and not in the next one? I feel like if you want to have this challenge, you should make it that the price permenanlty raises for the duration of the level. This would be a good puzzle element to have.

Since your radius increases via placing a unit, I had to somehow penalise the player for placing lots of units a turn. If there wasnt an exponential rise in costs, you could place all the units the 1st round, right in front of the roaches. I have to restrict the flow. Understand?  Undecided

Quote
Yes, the shotguns are pretty nasty. The melee have no use. The ranger is nice at first but once the map is uncovered (mostly using one or two ranger), shotguns are the only wepon needed

Yeah, the shotgunners own. The ranger's main purpose is to "clear" the room for placement, sort of like a scout. Hmmm... I have an idea regarding the melee+quaker and ranger+electro.

Quote
There's not enough feedback on what happens between round. You need to show us what is going on so we can tell which are the good positions when placing the units. Right now, we're not sure why our guys die. Sure there are some bugs near them but we can't know exactly why two guys died when they were only one bug that spawned.

Oh okay. Thanks.

Quote
My units should be a lot smarter. Instead of all shooting the same bug, they should each shoot one. Too many times, 12 to 20 shots are made toward only one bug when there are like 10 other bugs in-range. Make it so that they are a bit turned based. One shoots then another shoots.

Ah, now there is a way to solve that issue. I currently have "lagging" problems on older PC's when ending the round, because of everything that happens. Your idea to make it turn-based shooting could rock (in fact it could even be made interactive). I could prototype with that.

Quote
Once the level is over, the player has no idea how to retunr to the level selection screen

Yep, my bad. Still working on that!

Quote
In the first level, I got only 3 units and on the second I got like 12. You need to have to introduce us to these units over time. Also, I tried them and I still find that the only one useful is the shotgun. You need to make all units useful for something. Try to think of anything the player needs: single enmy destruction, mass destruction, spawing time slow down, heal, protection, teleporting etc... Then make units out of those various needs. This way you'll be sure that eahc units aren't there just to be cool: they fill a game need.


That aint supposed to happen. Did you press "A"? I currently introduce the units each time one comes available.

Quote
Confirmation on exiting the game screen and the application! I can't stress that enough! You'd be surprised to see how many times a miss clicks happens Wink Smiley

Ok.

Quote
What's the use of the profile name? It would be a good thing to put the profile option higher in the menu option list... A bit like this:
New Game
Continue
Edit profile
Tutorial
Exit

Yep, I still need to flesh it out. It is used to save your progress in the campaign .

Quote
The main menu artwork doesn't really fit the rest of the game. Why? It would be good to have artwork that matches everywhere...

More is coming.

Quote
Well, that's it for now... The game shows good potential but there are still some issues to fix. Don't give up, I think you have something going on...
Talk to you later!
Guert

Thank you thank you thank you for giving such detailed feedback. I really appreciate it!

P.S. I assume you did not get to the point of using enhancements? Tongue

Anyway, thanks once again. Ill get to work immediately.
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Guert
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« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2007, 08:49:06 AM »

Hello there!

Few quick answers...

Nope, the arrows weren't placed correctly on the starting places. Also, as a player, I need to know what's the difference between the different starting buildings so that I feel like I'm making a clear choice.

I totaly understand your point about the increasing value of the units. I just think that it could make the game harder if you didn't reset the value from turn to turn. So, the more untis you place, the more it costs you. Example: First round: Unit A costs 5. You place, one, it now costs 10. You place another, it costs 15. End of round. Round 2: You place Unit A, it costs 15 and it's value raises to 20. To make sure the player doesn't fill the entire map with units the first round, some units have some time restriction. Some can only be placed twice a round, other once each two rounds... Well, it's a bit different than your approach...

As for the all unit bug, I don't recall pressing anything in particular... Sad

Well, show us the next version when you can!
Later!
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Tr00jg
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« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2007, 11:38:33 AM »

Thanks for the replies once again. I have indeed made a few changes, but it is minor version update. I will post a new version once everything is "stable"-ish again.

Here is the new stuff so far:

-New Graphics style: It is crazy cartoonish.

-Semi-new UI done by me. Whether is "good" will remain to be seen. Smiley

-Removed enhancements. It is trivial and has no real need. Im going for more simplicity.

-The greatest update which is thanks to you Guert (you toppled the 1st domino), is a great new way of firing the units. When I mentioned to my friends at (http://www.gamedotdev.co.za) that perhaps the firing of the units could be done "turn-based", our community leader gave me an awesome idea.

Here it is: After you placed your units, and end the round, your units do no shoot immediately. You must then choose where you want to place a ring. The ring grows larger and larger, and when it touches a unit, that unit fires. Its as if the general is shouting "FIRE!!1!", and as each unit "hears" it, he fires. This solves the "all-units-shoot-at-1-roach" bug + its a wholly nifty idea on its own.

I havent had much time to dev on it, since I am writing exams...
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handCraftedRadio
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« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2007, 02:40:03 PM »

Any sceenshots you could post of the new graphics?
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Tr00jg
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« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2007, 04:53:08 AM »



Caption: The RING OF DEATH wreaks havoc.

Its look better in live action though, but I'm happy. What do you think? Oh the UI is still in progress.
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« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2007, 04:13:27 AM »

Honestly, I don't see a big improvement in the graphics sphere. I thought that "crazy cartoonish" would be more well... crazy and cartoonish Wink.

And I still think that you should remove that grid and blocky walls and replace it with something more jagged and real looking. Like on the picture I showed you recently .Otherwise it's a bit boring.

C'mon guys. Don't you agree it would look a bit better like that:


Even if you don't like jagged walls, I think you should change the background and get rid of that gray grid.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2007, 04:15:23 AM by TeeGee » Logged

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Tr00jg
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« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2007, 07:05:58 AM »

Let the battle begin! hehe...

On a serious note: How do you explain the "jaggedness"? And at the current moment it would be a helluva mission to make that "jaggedness".

Hmmm... The black/semi fuzzy background looks cool though.
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Guert
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« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2007, 09:29:49 AM »

Teeg gee's screen does feature better walls but at the same time, the shadows that they make can become annoying. Graphics like that needs to be very well done to make everything clear to the player. Also, you need to have a clear contrast between where you can and cannot go. A ground of a light color with walls of a darker color (or vice-versa) could help. The texture of highlighted ground where roaches are placed should be more obvious. For example, look at the creep from Starcraft. It's clear and has a clear contrast over the ground even if it has texturing...

All in all, I think the game is going in the right direction. keep workin on it! Smiley

Later!
Guert
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