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[Madgarden]

How about a retro-styled beat'em'up in the same vein as Double Dragon, River City Ransom, etc.? But with vegetables.

Tom the Tomato 2!

We (Elias Pschernig and I) just submitted this game for the Allegro "Retrohack" competition, which finished a few nights ago...

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It's not the best screenshot, as Tom is getting the beat-down by a couple of carrots, but you get the idea.

I've wanted to explore some beatemup concepts for a while, so this was a fun project. General feedback appreciated.

System requirements: Windows, minimal

[siiseli]

Haha, I remember making a game with klik 'n play called Tom the tomato... it was platforming and yes, there was killing carrots :D

[Zaphos]

I've wanted to explore some beatemup concepts for a while, so this was a fun project. General feedback appreciated.

Do you plan to do anything more with the game?  It seems like you get to the end of the first level and nothing happens (you can just keep fighting the carrots forever?)

In general the way a defeated carrot is immediately replaced by a new carrot is very unsatisfying, and makes the best strategy seem to be 'just ignore the enemies and walk through the level' ...

Also it would be interesting to explore a more sophisticated combat system; currently it seems like the combat is too simple to allow for much strategy, so it gets boring quickly.  (Mixing up the enemies would also help with this)

[handCraftedRadio]

I liked the fighting system, it was awesome. It definitely has the feel of an older nes style beat'em up which I assume is what you were going for since it was a retro contest. I agree with Zaohos though, it needs different types of enemies instead of repeatedly having to fight the carrots. It would add so much even if they don't have any new moves. Great job, let us know how you do in the contest.

[Madgarden]

Do you plan to do anything more with the game?  It seems like you get to the end of the first level and nothing happens (you can just keep fighting the carrots forever?)

In general the way a defeated carrot is immediately replaced by a new carrot is very unsatisfying, and makes the best strategy seem to be 'just ignore the enemies and walk through the level' ...

To clear each section, you must collect the tomatoes and defeat all of the carrots. There aren't too many in the first section or two... 12 and 16, I think. It increases by 4 each section.

I agree about the "immediately replaced" bit. Certainly there's a lot more refinement that could've be done (and was wanted) in this game, if we'd had the time.

Also it would be interesting to explore a more sophisticated combat system; currently it seems like the combat is too simple to allow for much strategy, so it gets boring quickly.  (Mixing up the enemies would also help with this)

We were literally scrambling right up to the deadline to get it ready for submission. I'd wanted to have 2 different enemies, and there are some more moves I was going to add as well, but simply didn't have time.

For fun with combat, try things like throwing carrots (and rocks) off of higher ground for more damage, throwing carrots at carrots, knocking carrots into pits with rocks, executing a dash-attack off of a ledge onto enemies below, time your tomato pickups and jumps to approaching enemies to execute the "hyper knee", etc.

For the time we had, I think we packed a lot of gameplay in there. I certainly want to explore the combat more, though.

HandCraftedRadio, thanks. I definitely modeled it after the NES beatemups, and others. We do plan to remove the "Retrohack" restrictions on colours and sprite memory and add more enemies, better backgrounds, more flexible synth, etc. As well, we'll probably scrap the current section-based gameplay and go with a more free-roaming map, as well as reduce the z-depth of the playfield to more closely match River City Ransom, Double Dragon, etc.

[Zaphos]

For the time we had, I think we packed a lot of gameplay in there. I certainly want to explore the combat more, though.

Yes, for a competition entry this is totally excellent!

To clear each section, you must collect the tomatoes and defeat all of the carrots. There aren't too many in the first section or two... 12 and 16, I think. It increases by 4 each section.

I didn't even realize there were sections; since I didn't see any indication of progress and the carrots are immediately replaced, I assumed they just always respawn and there are infinite carrots.  In the old NES games if there was a specific number you had to kill to progress, they would lock the screen scroll until you defeated enough; that was very effective in letting the player know there was some meaning to fighting the current enemies.

Anyway, I went back and beat up enough carrots to get them to stop spawning, then collected a bunch of tomatoes and nothing seemed to change except the carrots started spawning again ... is collecting tomatoes supposed to be bad?  Why does it make my enemies come back?  Is more of the level unlocked or does something else change when I get the tomatoes and beat up enough carrots?

[Madgarden]

Anyway, I went back and beat up enough carrots to get them to stop spawning, then collected a bunch of tomatoes and nothing seemed to change except the carrots started spawning again ... is collecting tomatoes supposed to be bad?  Why does it make my enemies come back?  Is more of the level unlocked or does something else change when I get the tomatoes and beat up enough carrots?

Okay, here's how it works. You're confined to a "section" in the map, which is 64 tiles wide, until you've beaten all of the carrots *and* collected all of the tomatoes for that section. Once this is done, you'll see a blinking arrow pointing to the right. If you're at the right edge of the section already, you may not see the arrow as you'll be immediately able to continue scrolling.

You're free to return to previously cleared sections if you want. There are 4 sections in total. So... beat carrots, collect tomatoes (they provide health, so time their use wisely), and try to get 25000 points using higher-scoring moves in order to gain the extra life.

Difficulty is set so that I'm really fighting my butt off in the last stage to try to win. I've gotten very close, but haven't quite made it yet. Maybe tonight.

EDIT: Argh... I was just on the *last frickin carrot* and died.

[Zaphos]

Once this is done, you'll see a blinking arrow pointing to the right. If you're at the right edge of the section already, you may not see the arrow as you'll be immediately able to continue scrolling.

Ooo ... I saw the blinking purple mushroom thing, but honestly missed that it was supposed to be an arrow.  I saw it meant that I had done something, and I did walk onward while it was blinking, but I guess I was near the edge of the screen and so it correlated pretty strongly with more carrots appearing.
Since I hadn't tried to get to the edge yet, I didn't remember where it was, so there was no indication that I was moving into a new area.  Er, except maybe that a boulder disappeared, but that was just more confusing.

Now I got to section 3, where there appears to be a jumping um ... puzzle?  mini-game? to get to the tomatoes.  Anyway I kept failing to make even the first jump.  Not sure if there's a trick to it or if I just am that bad at pressing the jump key at the right moment.

[Madgarden]

Yea, there's a contrast problem with the top part of the arrow. I'll fix that up.

And for the "puzzle," double-tap to run, and then jump! :D I didn't make that part of the map though, but sorry about it anyway. ;P

[Zaphos]

Yea, there's a contrast problem with the top part of the arrow. I'll fix that up.

And for the "puzzle," double-tap to run, and then jump! :D I didn't make that part of the map though, but sorry about it anyway. ;P

Ah!  I didn't realize you could double-tap to run!
But yeah, if/when you make a new version, should probably remove that part.  It doesn't fit with the rest of the game.

Anyway, I won!  Hooray!  My strategy involved finding a rock and repeatedly throwing it, preferably near a drop so I could get some 1-hit kills.  Completely ignored high-scoring moves; did not get an extra life ... but didn't need it!
... so perhaps you should make it take longer to pick up the rock, and/or make the AI more aggressive about punching you when you try to pick it up.

[Madgarden]

Thanks for the report, good stuff. I still have to try the 1-hit kill thing myself. Ugh, that must have been a pain without running before. I use the running bash a lot!

I haven't tried using rocks exclusively. Definitely the AI is a bit lacking at the moment, and I plan to rework it with various tactics such as going after the rock, and even tossing rocks (or you) into pits.

[Seth]

Hey, this was a lot of fun!  I could tell you took inspiration from River City Ransom, which was good, because that's one of my favorite games.

I particularly like body slamming carrots into pits.  Rocks were hard to pick up at times which was frustrating.  Also once a carrot hit me down and kept throwing me a against the wall.  Took me down from full health in seconds and there was nothing I could do 

I few times I didn't like the "double punch" effect where you and the carrot hit each other at the same time.  I kinda wanted the RCR block, but then again I'm not sure if that would be good, because then we'd just hit there smashing the button.

Looking forward to the update!

edit: oh also it's really hard   

[Guert]

Hey there!
I love beat'hem ups! I played the game a bit and most of my comments already been said before...

I think the game became redundant quickly. Since it's always teh same enemy that can be defeated while always using the same strategy, it got a little boring after a couple of carrot waves. It would be nice if you'd give the player more time to pick up lying carrots.

The loading screen and title are very aggressive

Anyway, interesting concept. Do you plan on workin' on it again?
Later!

[Madgarden]

Seth, I've noticed the wall-throw-death cheese as well, and I'll look into fixing that. Probably I'll make fighters vulnerable to being hit by the thrown body/rock when it bounces back.

Guert, Indeed it does get redundant. We will definitely make some more updates! I'll be adding some more enemies, and we will rip out the Retrohack boot loader screen and other related stuff as we go.

[Tex Pine]

You could make some angry and storng pinapples that will deal extra damage on the running attack with their spikes. Actually, I think the whole "angry vegetables" theme can make up for some good laughts, like beating candies alway from kids and making them cry.

Well, everyone pretty much said what I though, but I love beat'em ups. Keep on!

[Madgarden]

OK, I have uploaded a small update that addresses the wall cheese and rock abuse. I've been extremely busy with work, sickness, and a funeral, so that's all you get for the moment. :/

Next update I'll add some more fun stuff.