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[MazK1985]

Hi,
Super Lumi Live is a 2D pure platformer set in a reality TV show.  I've focused the game on having good level design for speedrunning with some light exploration, tight controls, fluid movement and collecting tokens.  The Tokens and finding warp exits open up new levels and new gravity levels respectively.

I've almost finished all the systems in the game and have released an alpha build, located below. I hope to have the game ready for a beta release sometime Q2 2017 and would love any feedback on the controls, level design or anything else.

The build can be found here: https://gemigames.itch.io/super-lumi-live
The above build is no longer publically available, please contact me at [email protected] if you would like a copy.

Thanks,
Marios.

EDIT: Updated all info and pictures to account for the changed name and theme.

[Personman]

Hi! So far I have completed one level of your game, and I have some pretty Strong Feelings already :D

First, your core engine feels great, with the tiny exception of the weird camera thing that happens as you enter the area with the boots. It would feel more fluid if the screen just kept scrolling as normal. But jumping and running is fast and fluid and precise and all around really good, and I'm excited about this game.

However, your interface choices are a bit garbage ^_^

To start off, Space and Enter are just awful default keys for a platform like this. The Space bar is pretty much the absolute worst button on the keyboard for doing precise platforming with. I highly recommend Z for jumping, especially as it's right next to L. Shift, which you default to run.

You let me rebind Space, though, so that's no big deal. But you don't let me rebind Enter! This is terrible. I now have to pick my entire hand up and move it whenever I die and want to restart. It's really really bad. Please just make the Jump button also do what Enter does. Oh, and Backspace is pretty horrible too, but at least I only have to press that at the end of a level..

Restarting a level is way too hard. Let me just have a key for this, instead of a menu choice. This combined with having to move to the Enter key is the #1 cause of irritation in your game so far.

Also, when going for speed, checkpoints are really obnoxious. Please let me turn them off, or have an option to go back to the beginning instead of the latest checkpoint when I die.

Oh yeah, one last little thing - your game is called "You Can Double JUMP", but I can't! :P I think you should at least have a bit of text at the beginning letting me know that my first quest is to get the boots - I was worried something was broken when I loaded into a game with that name and pressing jump in the air did nothing.

Or, honestly, just redesign level one and let you have it from the beginning. I mean why not? I bought the game because of the title, right? Just let me have it! ^_^

EDIT: I forgot to say THANK YOU for including a prominent, high-precision timer! As a speedrunner, it makes me very very happy to have it built-in :)

Oh yeah, and I got a 1:03.05 100% of level 1, decent run except for those four high threads near the end, which I actually hadn't noticed previously and had to go back for.

[MazK1985]

First, I'm really glad a speedrunner like yourself found the movement and controls to be decent. That was the highest priority from the start.

Also, thanks for the good and detailed feedback. You bring up a lot of good points.

I like your idea of changing the jump button to a proper key and will experiment with Z. Also, the menu controls are separate from the game controls which was a bit of an oversight on my part. I'll link them so that run is back and jump is enter. I'll have to create a full suite of icons for the keyboard and gamepad however so this one will take some time, unfortunatly.

You know, I very nearly kept the restart button in but locked it to the level editor build. I'll unlock that and add key binds.

The world map has a way to switch the checkpoints on and off by pressing backspace or Y on a 360 pad. It's a bit tucked away in the corner of the screen. I did add the option to change it in the pause menu but it was quite buggy so I removed it for now.

About the collecting boots thing. The only reason I had the player collect the boots was to make sure they first understood running and holding down jump to jump higher before introducing the double jump. I'm not sure what to do about this but I agree to some extent that it's jarring.

I just had to have a millisecond timer put in, I see so many games without high precision timers and I'm thinking WHY NOT!!!!

Thanks again for the feedback and I look forward to adding in those features for the next version,

Marios.

[Personman]

Awesome to hear that literally everything I want changed is either already there or will be changed! :D Thanks for pointing out the checkpoint toggle, that helps a lot.

I played the next level and got a 47.635 100%. I then played again any%, and got a 30.. which of course overwrote my 100% time. It would be pretty nice if these were tracked separately, but I understand that you might not want to clutter it up for people who don't care about that. If you DO, I guess you could also track times for all white threads and all gold threads separately TOO... :D

Also, it would be really nice to see the Par and Pro cutoffs before you get them - both to have something to work towards, and to see how much you beat it BY once you get it.

[MazK1985]

As I was typing my reply, you mentioning your 100% time did make me think of adding in a time score for 100% on each level and time targets to go with them. However, I feel it will add a lot more work for testing and adjusting the time targets when all the levels are done. I may just add a 100% score without medals just for show. I won't go as far as to track the threads separately but 100% seems ok since any% and 100% are the usual standard speedrun categories.

That's a low priority for now though.

Thanks again,
Marios.

[Personman]

Yeah, I don't need separate time targets for 100% - that would be a huge amount of extra work for something that probably not a huge number of people will end up caring about. Just tracking it would be awesome.

Another very awesome feature would showing me my PB on a level when at the death screen or the victory screen, and maybe a little starburst or something on the victory screen when you set a new one. As it is, I've sometimes gotten a time, felt like I could do better, and retried.. and then not actually been sure whether I'd improved or not, or by how much. In fact, showing you exactly how much you improved by would be GREAT.

[Personman]

Hey, I've started streaming my playthrough (trying to get 100% runs and Pro splits on every level).

[MazK1985]

I started to link the game controls to the menu controls but ran into a big problem. They are far too separated to easily link together, couple this with having to make an icon for every keyboard button, I figured it's not worth doing.

I also came to the conclusion that you wouldn't be using the menus that much if a restart level button was added to the game so this will have to do.

The level clear UI does need some work, there's a few other issues with it (like no fanfare music and weird pauses depending on which targets/threads you got). Showing the PB difference is planned and I will be adding that at some point.

A new version is uploaded with the suicide button added and the start position fixed for Level 5.

Thanks again for your help,
Marios.

[Personman]

Can you at least let me rebind the menu keys? And, if possible, let me bind one key to two things? The main thing I want is jump == enter, but jump on z and enter on x or space would be fine too. I guess I can just do it with autohotkey, but it'd be really nice...

[MazK1985]

It will have to be something I do at a later date because the game controls use a rebindable system but the menu controls are hard coded. It was a oversight at the start of the project

While it would take a short while to have them rebindable, making the icons and showing the correct one on the menus will be a very long task as there's about 150 different keys supported by the input API. Unfortunately I can't change it for now but I'll see if I've got time within the next few weeks.

Cheers,
Marios.

[Personman]

Do you really have to make those icons? Could you not just use the Enter icon if it's default, or else show a single, generic, "confirm" icon if it's been rebound?

[MazK1985]

I could show text instead like "[ENTER] Apply" which wouldn't be too difficult.

I'll see how it looks but this is a low priority for now.

Cheers,
Marios.

[lobstersteve]

I didn't expect much from a game that's called "you can double jump", but it was amazing, i'm god damn serious. I completed everything i think (tower of power was the last level) and loved everything about it.
The controls reminded me of immediatly of super meat boy. It felt like you are a fan of meat boy, but didn't want to copy it's main mechanic, so you made a game about double jump instead of wall jump. Which is fine, because the game itself is very different. The level design was great, you took the idea of introducing a hazard and changing it's behaviour on the next encounter very far (saw, rotating saw, saw on a moving platform..). A lot of parts were very creative, like that one part on the level with the moving platforms everywere, where you have to jump between 4 moving platforms. The timing of the hazards and the precision with which you have to make the jumps is very tight and feels really good. All in all the level design reminded me more of super mario world, because the level were build around one main mechanic: one level was about trampolines, one about moving platforms. Camera movement was great too, like in the tower of power level, where the camera rises from on floor to the next.
But the biggest problem the game has, is how bland it feels. It's obviously a game that you don't play for the story or any kind of feels, but it doesn't has any charme. Super meat boy didn't had a story also, but it had humour, a goal (save the girl) and levels that represented some kind of location (wood, hospital, salt factory..). If you wanted to just make a game and didn't care for that stuff, then it's fine, but i think if you would like to have some sort of success with it, that would be the #1 thing that would hold it back. And don't get me wrong. It still gave me some adrenalin rushes and that's a great feelign for a game also, but if i wouldn't be totally bored in the lunch break i wouldn't touch the game, because it doesn't sell itself well for the aforementioned reasons.

[MazK1985]

Hi,

First, thank you very much for taking the time to let me know how you got on with the game. I'm really glad you liked it, it's a relief to know that others find it as fun as I do.

A few people do instantly dismiss it as a Super Meat Boy clone which is unfortunate because I knew that it played very differently once you got stuck into it.  You're completely right though that my biggest problem so far has been getting people to give it a chance, so they realise that it's not like Super Meat Boy and offers a different experience while still catering to a Super Meat Boy audience. I'm happy you pointed this out to me

I've been back and forth about the games title because I, somewhat naively thought it would raise eyebrows by being a bit tongue in cheek but it's becoming more and more evident though that the name isn't great. I will change it to "Beanie and the Boots of Justice", which doesn't break the fourth wall and has a bit more mystery to it while still retaining a somewhat comical feel, I hope.

On top of that, the antagonist is no where to be seen and I think this could be the lack of charm you're talking about. The player doesn't have an overall reason to get to the end other than completing levels. I'll introduce him and make the end of level goal relevant to that overarching goal. This should hopefully motivate the player beyond just playing levels.

I'm not the best artist so I must admit I slacked a bit when it came to populating the levels with thematic elements like trees, grass, machines etc...
I will endeavor to create a more living world however, similarly to a mock up I made a while back


Thanks again for your great feedback and I hope next time I push the game out there, it will grab people's attention a bit more.

Cheers,
Marios

[Personman]

Sadly, lobstersteve may be right that in general lack of theme/story will hinder popularity, but I have to say I was really happy about the amount of those things in the game right now. I really like how little time there is between me launching the game and playing the game, and between me playing a level and playing the next one. The levels do feel somewhat thematic to me already, and the music is GREAT, so I hope you do most of your storytelling in the background of the levels rather than in cutscenes or anything.

And please for the love of god if you add a more explicit goal, don't have it be saving a girl >_>

In fact, it would be nice if there was an option menu to let you pick at least between a male and female protagonist, or maybe male, female, and robot.

Anyway, I finished everything in the demo. Here's a table of my times - these are all the first time I got in the relevant category, I didn't go back and try to improve them once I had a Pro time and a 100% time, with possibly the exception of D-A where just figuring out how to do 100% took me a while.

Level	Pro Time	100% Time
1	27.233	1:03.05
2	21.053	47.635
3	34.711	56.588
4	1:46.769	2:41.206
5	20.196	58.706
6	11.978	20.834
100	41.099	1:34.709
A	9.307	18.805
B	12.766	12.766

Hopefully that's useful on its own in terms of the reasonableness of the cutoffs, but here are some things that stood out:

- Is level 5 missing the third golden thread? Or is it just really, REALLY well hidden? Both other "secret" threads have been visible, with the path hidden, so I feel like it's just missing. EDIT: Found it and got a time :)

- Figuring out how to do B 100% was the most fun and satisfying thing in the game so far. The fact that I also got the Pro time on my first successful 100% run was gravy. It seems like it means that you COULD reduce the Pro cutoff, because getting the threads does take a bit of time, but don't - getting both at once is a very nice feeling :)

- Is the level 100 skip supposed to be possible? This is where knowing the cutoff would be really nice, because I have no idea if I did what was expected, or if I totally broke it. The process of slowly coming to realize that it might be possible and then actually getting it was very fun, so please keep it if you didn't know about it!

- Overall the level design was very good. I would caution you against going too much further with mandatory waiting-for-moving-platform levels - this game shines when you are jumping always and going very fast. For instance, the first half of 4 is amazing, and EXACTLY what I want from moving platforms - you can ride them, or you can go all out and leave them in the dust. The second half is.. eh. It's not terrible. A little bit of that is ok. But mostly I just want to go fast!

  The other place this comes up is in the beginning of 5. In that one, it's balanced very well for any%, and you can zip right through and it feels great. But for 100%, you end up stuck waiting for quite a while, and it's pretty annoying. A little more leeway would improve the pacing a lot I think.

Anyway, I want more! :D

[MazK1985]

Hi,

First to Personman, I can't thank you enough for all the critical feedback. You've been extremely helpful and I really appreciate the time you've taken to tell me about your thoughts.

The main storytelling will be confined to one cutscene when you start a new game and one at the end. The theme of the levels will be more apparent once they are confined to their appropriate worlds and have props to distinguish them further. I had the same thought about the goal not being a girlfriend so I came up with an idea that I'll elaborate below.

I've not gone through your times and compared them to the 'Pro' targets but there will be a targets display when I rework the level clear screen.

Level 5's first Gold Thread is most definitely there. The Threads go in order of when you'll be able to get them so it's before the second one

You got the 'Pro' score on a 100% run
I officially hate you for doing better than I could.

I don't want to spoil it by saying but there's a mental skip that allows you to get a sub 30 second time (It's  extremely hard to pull off) and there's the normal skip which I believe is the one you got judging by the time. The 'Pro' target is around 50 secs I believe.

There will be very very few areas of the game that make you wait. As for Level 5, it use to have 4 platforms spinning on each but it made the 4th set of them too difficult for a first playthrough so I removed half from each set of spinning platforms. I'll try 3 on each and see how that goes.


Ok so I've been racking my brain all day trying to come up with a better title, story and end of level goal and I reckon I've got something here. So the story will go:

Lord Leo has kidnapped the Beanies (the beanbag race) to use their beans as a power source for his experiments. One rebel always escapes his reach however (the protagonist, his name was Beanie but the game is more about the race of Beanies now). Leo has placed across the land, his minions and machines to destroy him so that no one can stand in his way. The protagonist creates a pair of Boots which allow him to double jump so he can save his fellow Beanies and defeat Lord Leo. There's some interesting twists that I won't reveal but that's essentially the prelude.

The end goal of each level will be replaced by a container that has a different coloured Beanie inside of it (which will then be playable) and the game title will be changed to:



I hope this should set the theme and give the player motivation above and beyond just completing levels.

Cheers,
Marios

[Personman]

Hi,

First to Personman, I can't thank you enough for all the critical feedback. You've been extremely helpful and I really appreciate the time you've taken to tell me about your thoughts.

You're welcome! This is honestly exactly the kind of game I'd been looking for, and it was totally random that I happened across it - I had actually just signed up for the first time to post in a different game's thread and the title caught me eye :)

Level 5's first Gold Thread is most definitely there. The Threads go in order of when you'll be able to get them so it's before the second one ;)

Ok, I found it and got a 58.706 :)

You got the 'Pro' score on a 100% run :o
I officially hate you for doing better than I could.

Just to check - the intended way to get the Pro time on B involves falling straight down into the exit, right?

I don't want to spoil it by saying but there's a mental skip that allows you to get a sub 30 second time (It's  extremely hard to pull off) and there's the normal skip which I believe is the one you got judging by the time. The 'Pro' target is around 50 secs I believe.

I'm assuming this just means the first one is possible too, not that a totally different style of skip is possible? If so, yeah, it seemed like it might be, but REALLY hard..

There will be very very few areas of the game that make you wait. As for Level 5, it use to have 4 platforms spinning on each but it made the 4th set of them too difficult for a first playthrough so I removed half from each set of spinning platforms. I'll try 3 on each and see how that goes.

I see. I would try putting 3 on the third and fourth ones - I don't think the first two need it at all.

The end goal of each level will be replaced by a container that has a different coloured Beanie inside of it (which will then be playable) and the game title will be changed to: Revenge of the Beanies

I can't say I'm thrilled about the new name, but I don't hate it, and I don't really care what it's called in the end. It feels fairly generic though. You might want to talk with someone more experienced in the marketing end of things before finalizing it :)

I like the character unlock system!

One other small annoyance I've noticed - frequently when you clear a level, the sound gets stuck in an annoying repetitive ticking sound until you go back to the map.

[lobstersteve]

I'm also not too excited about the new title and story :/ it kinda reminds me of that typical platformer story á la sonic, "collect the 7 emeralds to do this and that" and you immediatly stop caring.
.. but whatever, maybe just focus on the things you like to make, because they are great
If you need help with small elements, like trees, rocks etc. maybe i could help you out. I'm an amateurish artist myself, but i do some photoshop stuff in my free time, check my twitter account if you want and write me a private message / add me on skype..

[MazK1985]

This is honestly exactly the kind of game I'd been looking for, and it was totally random that I happened across it

I'm glad you found it too

I never thought of completing Level B like that. Kudos. I jump in between the first set of sawblades.

Yeah the first one is possible on Level 100 but it has to be perfectly executed.

The ticking sound is a moving platform. I forgot to stop all sounds at level clear.

As for the name and story, I suppose it is a bit Sonic like. I like the idea of saving a Beanie at the end of each level and getting that colour Beanie to play with. You'll get the satisfaction of smashing a box and high fiving a Beanie at the end of each level

Other names my wife and I came up with:
Beanies: The big stitch up
Beanies: The baggening
The Adventures of Beanbag Boy
Beanie's Bagtastic Adventure
Jumping Bean-Bags

To lobstersteve, I checked out your Twitter and you're certainly a better artist than myself. Your clean style would fit the game as well. Thank you for the offer to help but I have to respectfully decline as I can't afford to offer you anything in return. If the situation changes however, I will let you know.

I also played some "How to Bird". Pretty hard game but very well made and solid controls if a little fiddly. Trying to dash or jump at the right time was really tricky at first, it got a little easier so I imagine given enough practice it becomes second nature. Saved a bookmark so I will definitely play that some more

Cheers,
Marios

[lobstersteve]

I like "Beanies: The big stitch up" most
Well ok..come back to it, if the time comes where you would want some artistic help 
How to bird is alright. I cringe a little bit when i play it, because it feels a little bit like a children's game with it's presentation. The controls are also not very good. I'm still proud of some of the levels though. But i guess i got better with all this things by now, so next time it will be better
But yeah, whatever, i don't want to start a conversation about that in your devlog