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[konjak]

It's even being developed in MMF2, they're just porting the engine to the Wii so it can read the PC-created levels! And fuck, no Quote in Indie Brawl? Tyrone Rodriguez is beginning to really piss me off.

They're not porting MMF2.

[Fuzz]

It's even being developed in MMF2, they're just porting the engine to the Wii so it can read the PC-created levels! And fuck, no Quote in Indie Brawl? Tyrone Rodriguez is beginning to really piss me off.

They're not porting MMF2.

I know, but they're using the same level files for the PC version because Nifflas is saving the levels in an external format.

[googoogjoob]

When and why did you decide to make Night Game exclusive to WiiWare?
[...]
TR: Unknown to probably most people who have seem screens or the initial trailer for NG is that we've actually approached Nintendo very early on. They've been great to work with and have been very helpful during the development of Night Game and Cave Story.

I'd like to point out that this statement is misleading (and that it doesn't actually answer the question). The problem is that Night Game was in development for several months before Nicalis was even incorporated, and then Nifflas wasn't approached (by Nicalis, not Nintendo) concerning the game until several months after that. (Then again, it might be true if Nintendo approached Nicalis concerning a port of a game they had no relation to at the time.)

About two weeks ago I collated all available information concerning the development of Night Game. I believe it makes things rather more clear in this confusing situation. (It should be accurate unless everyone involved has been lying often concerning NG.)

[Soulliard]

However, soon after this, circa May 2008, the first few videos in DeceasedCrab's series of LPs of Cave Story were taken down by YouTube, at Nicalis's request. This suggests Nicalis has at least some rights to the PC version of Cave Story. DeceasedCrab himself was not allowed to give information on the situation.

It looks like all of DC's LPs are still there.

I worry about Pixel, too. If a predatory games company owns the premier indie game, there's nothing to stop them from making it into a commercial nightmare. They could stop fan projects. They could restrict the use of character likenesses. I'm not saying they'll do this, but if they have the rights to the game, nothing can stop them from acting so. Pixel has, in the past, acted totally benignly towards fan projects.

It's already happened with Indie Brawl...

[googoogjoob]

However, soon after this, circa May 2008, the first few videos in DeceasedCrab's series of LPs of Cave Story were taken down by YouTube, at Nicalis's request. This suggests Nicalis has at least some rights to the PC version of Cave Story. DeceasedCrab himself was not allowed to give information on the situation.

It looks like all of DC's LPs are still there.

Unfortunately, the topic on Nifflas's old forum concerning this incident was lost in a big crash thing a month ago, so I can't have exact dates or quotes.

Effectively, what happened was this guy (eceva) was trying to watch some of DC's Cave Story LPs. He accessed them from the playlist, because they were inaccessible normally. He noticed that the first five videos had been taken down by YouTube because of a claim by "Nicalis, Inc". (This all happened before anyone knew anything about Nicalis, except that they were associated somehow with Nifflas.) Eceva showed me this, and I thought it was rather fishy. Thus, I posted on Nifflas's forum concerning the situation (because, of course, at the time Nifflas was the only accessible person known to be associated with Nicalis).

DeceasedCrab himself replied to the topic, saying something to the effect of "I can't say anything, but the situation is being worked out. Don't ask questions."

The videos were restored within maybe a week, and everyone just sorta wrote the incident off and forgot about it. Months later, when the news about Cave Story Wii came out, the connection was finally made, but no one ever really figured out why Nicalis would want to take the videos down, or why they only made claims on the first five. (No one really got the full implication of Nicalis owning Cave Story till later.)

[Fuzz]

Nicalis sounds like a really scary, secretive organization lurking in the background preying on talented game developers inexperienced with contracts. It sounds like something out of a Final Fantasy game! :D

[GregWS]

In spirit, Nicalis seems to more closely resemble a big corporation than an indie studio.

Yeah, that's my take on it. 

And because of that I'm actually going to feel a twinge of guilt when buying Night Game, and that's just terrible! 



You know, maybe that talk of a GDC lynching should be acted on.  :D

[Gold Cray]

And because of that I'm actually going to feel a twinge of guilt when buying Night Game, and that's just terrible! 

I felt that way at first, but Nifflas is still the person making the game, and I think it would be a bit insulting to refuse to play it just because of Nicalis.

[GregWS]

That's the horrible aspect of it.  I really like Nifflas, but I know that Tyrone will be profiting off my buying it, and I hate that thought after the whole Wii exculsive and Indie Brawl things.

[Eclipse]

I know, but they're using the same level files for the PC version because Nifflas is saving the levels in an external format.

a binary file parser is something you can write in a day
I believe they're reading Nifflas levels file format not MMF2 files

[Valter]

Somewhere in this conversation I think we mixed up Tyrone with Adolf Hitler.

[Fuzz]

I know, but they're using the same level files for the PC version because Nifflas is saving the levels in an external format.

a binary file parser is something you can write in a day
I believe they're reading Nifflas levels file format not MMF2 files

No, that's what I mean.

[Soulliard]

Somewhere in this conversation I think we mixed up Tyrone with Adolf Hitler.

Hm? I just said that he's behaving more like a mainstream company than an indie company. From the conversations I've had with him, he actually seems like a very nice person.

[Valter]

Well, that makes me wonder why anybody would decide not to buy it just because it's mainstream. Just treat it like a pretty cool ambient mainstream game. I don't think the decision-making process should be decided by how much money goes to the developer. If you really want to pay him, just send him a check.

I hate to be so straightforward about it, but Tyrone making money as a result of this game being released isn't such a bad thing. It's not like he's imprisoning Nifflas and forcing him to make games for Nicalis, is it?

[Fuzz]

It's not like he's imprisoning Nifflas and forcing him to make games for Nicalis, is it?

It is.

[googoogjoob]

I don't think the decision-making process should be decided by how much money goes to the developer. If you really want to pay him, just send him a check.

Nifflas has actually stopped accepting donations.

[GregWS]

Yeah, that's how you can tell he feels bad about the whole thing.  Having such a high personal ethical standard and all.

[Μarkham]

Wasn't Tyrone doing the programming for Night Game?  Shouldn't that mean he should have at least some say as to what is done with it?  I remember Nifflas wanted to charge money for his Knytt Stores expansion packs, but decided to release them for free after concluding that he didn't know how he'd do it, so I'm pretty sure Nifflas isn't against the idea as much as everyone would like to imagine.

I'll be buying it when it comes out.

[Soulliard]

He's not against the idea of selling the game. He's against the idea of making it Wii-exclusive.

[googoogjoob]

Wasn't Tyrone doing the programming for Night Game?  Shouldn't that mean he should have at least some say as to what is done with it?

No. Night Game itself is entirely done by Nifflas. The Wii interpreter dealy is being programmed by programmers working for Nicalis.

It hardly matters who programmed it anyway, since Nicalis (and by extension, Tyrone Rodriguez) owns the rights to Night Game.

I remember Nifflas wanted to charge money for his Knytt Stores expansion packs, but decided to release them for free after concluding that he didn't know how he'd do it, so I'm pretty sure Nifflas isn't against the idea as much as everyone would like to imagine.

As I understand the situation, Nifflas was going to sell his work anyway, starting maybe with NG or the game after it. (Probably the game after it- in October 2007, before Nicalis, J, Nifflas's main beta tester, said he was "99.98% certain" that Night Game would be freeware.)