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[baconman]

Seems like lots of players (including me) are having fun getting their hands dirty with these games. It's also pretty astounding how the common theme of mining, spelunking, and sometimes crafting have produced such similar and yet widely varied results. But what all makes them so darned special? As a whole, and individually?

I guess in this first post, I'll try to zero in on the common factors that make most of my choices in them so delightful to play, then I'll get more into the titles I've played and what makes each one uniquely fun later.

1. DISCOVERY!!

Clearly, the most obvious thing to enjoy about treasure-hunting games is the treasure-hunting itself! And pretty much all of these games gives your character tools and abilities to systematically dismantle their worldscapes looking for the possibilities within it. Not only does it make these games incredibly fun to dissect, but many of them inherently create nonlinear gameplay options in their means of doing so.

2. EXPLORATION!!

With the understandable exception of Mr. Driller; most of these games have a nifty variety of biomes or settings to survive and thrive in, each with distinctive features that help and hinder your progress through them; sometimes even redefining the core gameplay as they do so. Oftentimes, it can be compared to Metroid-likes without actually being one of them.

A great, simple example of this that most people here should recognize is the 3rd area in Spelunky, the ice mountains. Whereas the game to this point has been about going down through pretty constrictive/tight areas, now you're faces with a world that's rather open; where at times ground can be scarce to find, and even unstable in a few ways once you do. There's meltaway platforms, fallaway platforms, finely-tuned ice to throw off your footing, and even well-concealed springboards that all threaten your steady footing - suddenly blasting through the ground isn't the surefire tactic it has been up to this point.

Even Mr. Driller has a few levels where hard rock becomes very frequent, and a couple levels that feature only 3 colors of blocks instead of the usual 4.

3. TREASURE!!

There's a wide variety of treasures available in many of these games, most of them with gameplay-related implications. Some may be more direct than others, but usually finding spoils of treasures results in new additional abilities, upgrading of core abilities, renewing of their health or resources, or the bottom-line score booster. Either way, it's not like you just find a hidden picture or something (though in a couple of cases...). However, it doesn't have this great reduction of your personal fragility - these abilities continue to test your competence in using them well.

4. THE YASD FACTOR!!

Sometimes deliberately designed, as a few sneaky-but-beatable Spelunker HD moments have proven, but also oftentimes a factor of coincidental/emergent gameplay, there's always that inevitability... something, somewhere is gonna catch you off-guard, and you're GOING to get screwed. There's always a consequence to running around impulsively. And every once in a while, even the best player is going to lose, regardless of how good they are.

That's not to say luck is a deciding factor of the game - there's nearly always some out-of-the-box way of avoiding impossible situations. But they're there, presented as sometimes "unbeatable" scenarios - and man, does it feel good to get past those! But sometimes they way you lose - the sheer amount of stuff your character ends up going through until they're finally finished off - is just outright hilarious.

5. PROCEDURAL-GENERATED CONTENT WORLDS!!

Okay, so it's not something EVERY one of these titles share - but a large number of the ones that pertain here do use PGC-created landscapes and to a rather effective degree. It's astounding at just how many different ways people use PGC algorhythms to create this vast variety of experiences.

6. CRAFTING/ALCHEMY!!

In the titles that DO feature this (like Terraria or Under The Garden), it's very prominent if not game-centric, often the kind of experience that wouldn't work without it. And there are plenty of titles here that work just fine without it, and adding this wouldn't change it all that much. Kind of a line-in-the-sand more than anything else, some people love playing with it, and some love playing without it.
__________

Later, I'll get around to dissecting some of the games I've played and enjoyed of this variety, and I'd be glad to discuss many of them.

FTR, my playset includes: Spelunky, Terraria, Oze, Under The Garden, "Mining Game," Spelunker (/HD), La Mulana, Mr. Driller (arguably relevant?), and to throw it in for sake of possible relevance, the original Legend of Zelda (because face it; Triforce and Princess Zelda goals aside, this sort of conceptual gameplay is what made that game so doggoned FUN).

And yes, I know Minecraft and it's 3D ilk are important to the discussion as well. Do share!!

[gimymblert]

You really don't gave your priority straight ??

1. FUCKING INTERACTIVITY

Simply

Everywhere you are you can do something (pick a block, place a block) and block define the whole gameplay.

X. Accessibility

everywhere is interactive and control are easy to pick up for immediate action: move, pick, place. instead of relying on ton of player ability on so many button, the world have enough affordance for diversity, basically where you are define what you do.


X. Immediacy
To shoot you need to find enemy
To jump you need to find platform
To rpg you need to find a lot of thing

in mining where you are you can do something, it's all about 1, it's everywhere, the entire world is interactive, you need to wander finding an interactive spot.

[baconman]

Never said anything about them having priorities, they're just a list. And while those are true for many of them - which I'll get around to with individual game dissection later on - it's actually not something they ALL do. Spelunky and Spelunker for example, have definitive level progression, and not everything in them is "restackable."

Go ahead and try to disassemble/reassemble Spelunker. I dare ya. XD

Those are certainly important things in many of them though, I'll grant you that. It's why I like making discussions, not writing news articles.

[s0]

Does Spelunker even have mining? Though if it did you'd probably die if you held the pick at the wrong angle.

[baconman]

It's a game about exploring/spelunking an underground mine/cave. So kind of, just not in the verbal sense?

Maybe this is two different cups of Superb Joe being mixed here.

[s0]

idk i thought this thread was about games that use mining as a mechanic. spelunker is a traditional platformer where the cave is just the setting.

[Ashkin]

"Mining Game,"

*swoooooooooon* <3

As for the discussion, I will be taking notes!

[StevoIRL]

Honestly id say a big priority for a mining game would to give the player a long term goal/objective to work towards.

Minecraft's biggest failure is that the game itself is just so opened ended that after a player completes his own goal/objective a lot of them will find they have nothing to do. You need to offer up a bit of spice and give incentives for players to do something. Being a giant sandbox is great but chances are that your users can get bored thanks to the "Simpsons Did It" syndrome.

Terraria solved this to some degree by having it's random NPC events and proper Dungeon areas to seek out.

[Ashkin]

Honestly id say a big priority for a mining game would to give the player a long term goal/objective to work towards.

Minecraft's biggest failure is that the game itself is just so opened ended that after a player completes his own goal/objective a lot of them will find they have nothing to do. You need to offer up a bit of spice and give incentives for players to do something. Being a giant sandbox is great but chances are that your users can get bored thanks to the "Simpsons Did It" syndrome.

Terraria solved this to some degree by having it's random NPC events and proper Dungeon areas to seek out.

Do you think upgrades to one's mining ability that are gotten using the money gained by mining are a good incentive? Maybe even ones that are purely aesthetic?

[StevoIRL]

Honestly id say a big priority for a mining game would to give the player a long term goal/objective to work towards.

Minecraft's biggest failure is that the game itself is just so opened ended that after a player completes his own goal/objective a lot of them will find they have nothing to do. You need to offer up a bit of spice and give incentives for players to do something. Being a giant sandbox is great but chances are that your users can get bored thanks to the "Simpsons Did It" syndrome.

Terraria solved this to some degree by having it's random NPC events and proper Dungeon areas to seek out.

Do you think upgrades to one's mining ability that are gotten using the money gained by mining are a good incentive? Maybe even ones that are purely aesthetic?

I think that's actually a very good idea. Now the only problem I could see if the costs between mining upgrades became just insane and forcing grind. Possibly introduce the idea of set/random spawns of mining tool upgrades?

Aesthetic stuff could work aswell. Have it somewhat achievement based say like "Dig Down X Amount of Feet" to unlock a mining hate or something.

You need to offer some sort of guidance to a user sometimes, being opened minded in what your going to do in every playthrough is quite a hard thing to do.

[vlaube]

Gentlemen, this could be of historic interest: my HTML5 remake of MINER!.
It's a game created by Ron Longfellow in 1980 and was probably the first mining game.

I'm also working on a remake of MinerVGA but I still need some funding for that...

[baconman]

Now, let's talk a little about Spelunky!

Whether you define it as a "mining game" or not, it does feature everything mentioned in the original article (besides maybe crafting/alchemy). There's a large variety of powerups to discover that can drastically alter a gameplay experience, some are regular enough that you can count on them appearing, and some of the rarer ones have the most dramatic effects. While the game is level-based and goal-oriented, it still leaves you a lot of flexibility in how you get there and what you encounter along the way; and exploring each level more has it's definite risk/reward dynamic about it. There's even a sequence of events you can take that make a sort of "story" within the game, but it's completely inconsequential if you don't make it - and oftentimes you won't. And the YASD factor gives this game such a variety of emotional charge about it, from being cautious and terrified of it to absolute hilarity at some of the absurd ways you can get pwned. Enemies and traps are simple enough alone, but in combinations they can be quite hazardous, especially if you're caught off-guard by a sub-boss creature, which is simply a larger version of most normal enemies... although a couple have quite astounding special attacks.

The game's level generator strikes a finely-tuned balance in design and randomness, and the way the game's environments each have unique focus and features that compliment your abilities allows you to develop a methodology for clearing certain types of areas, but strict route memorization will not lead you to optimized gameplay. It is entirely possible to carelessly squander your bombs and ropes chasing treasure or damsels, or just trying to streamline through a level, and get yourself totally screwed. But it is designed to be USUALLY fair, and at least 99% of the time, playing smart can get you through a game, although the win/loss rate is probably the meanest ratio since the Kid from IWBTG learned to play 4-suit Spider Solitaire.

But the overall simplicity of the gameplay, the catchy tunes, the uncertainty of the exploration factor and what treasures you may uncover each play create a genuinely good, addictive experience that's hard to not get caught up in. Every time I start that game, I end up "just one more timing" myself.

One impressive note that seperates it from the crowd is that it doesn't need alchemy or excessive inventory management to work. You don't harvest wood and stone, find ore, take it back to your self-built base and craft a selection of equipment - you find a goodie and THERE IT IS. You save a damsel and you get extra HP. There ARE shops you can buy stuff at, and there IS in-game money you can buy it with... but you're entirely capable of clearing the game without said equipment; though some are really worth their price - either in gold, or in "wanted stars."

[Geeze]

Yeah spelunky is awesome game and it should have more "ripoffs".
Actually I would describe Spelunky more as an action-roguelike than a mining game. We need more action-roguelikes like spelunky!!!

[JasonPickering]

so I have a question about enviroments for exploring:

would it be more important to have a vast world with 100 hidden things in it or would you rather see smaller worlds with 10 hidden things in it randomly chosen from the 100.

the first one would allow for massive exploration of a vast world. while the second would allow you to explore more worlds overall each one being different.

[baconman]

so I have a question about enviroments for exploring:

would it be more important to have a vast world with 100 hidden things in it or would you rather see smaller worlds with 10 hidden things in it randomly chosen from the 100.

the first one would allow for massive exploration of a vast world. while the second would allow you to explore more worlds overall each one being different.

Now THIS is a terrific discussion piece. It's something I wonder about, too; because I have wrestled with the issue a couple of times as well.

What I think I've came down to is a "let the player decide" approach between the two; but it also depends on your levels of persistence...

Whether you can accumulate powers or items on one character and use that in future worlds/sessions, or if it's more of a one-shot arcade-like experience. Perhaps just how differently your items can effect gameplay can affect that as well, and whether the items are permanent upgrades, slot-limited equipment, or are expendable munitions. Even stuff like a variable difficulty setting, in combination with the above, can be taken into consideration.

It's also one major factor that sets most of these games apart from one-another.

Right now, I'm going with a limited level of persistence in my project, and out of the 11 biomes I'm planning to design in total, I'm making it so the game utilizes only 5-6 of them per playthrough, so not even all of the obstacles will be present in each session.

I'd say it all comes down to how much variation your world has within it. If you can make a lot of variation, then your "fully-fleshed" game will probably be the most entertaining, especially if one or two of those items were very conditional and required a set of steps to get. If the differences in your worlds are more cosmetic than gameplay-oriented however, I'd opt with the "feature a selection of them" approach.

[StevoIRL]

so I have a question about enviroments for exploring:

would it be more important to have a vast world with 100 hidden things in it or would you rather see smaller worlds with 10 hidden things in it randomly chosen from the 100.

the first one would allow for massive exploration of a vast world. while the second would allow you to explore more worlds overall each one being different.

Now THIS is a terrific discussion piece. It's something I wonder about, too; because I have wrestled with the issue a couple of times as well.

What I think I've came down to is a "let the player decide" approach between the two; but it also depends on your levels of persistence...

Whether you can accumulate powers or items on one character and use that in future worlds/sessions, or if it's more of a one-shot arcade-like experience. Perhaps just how differently your items can effect gameplay can affect that as well, and whether the items are permanent upgrades, slot-limited equipment, or are expendable munitions. Even stuff like a variable difficulty setting, in combination with the above, can be taken into consideration.

It's also one major factor that sets most of these games apart from one-another.

Right now, I'm going with a limited level of persistence in my project, and out of the 11 biomes I'm planning to design in total, I'm making it so the game utilizes only 5-6 of them per playthrough, so not even all of the obstacles will be present in each session.

I'd say it all comes down to how much variation your world has within it. If you can make a lot of variation, then your "fully-fleshed" game will probably be the most entertaining, especially if one or two of those items were very conditional and required a set of steps to get. If the differences in your worlds are more cosmetic than gameplay-oriented however, I'd opt with the "feature a selection of them" approach.

Okay so you create your random world which has 10 pre set locations randomly assigned to it in some way. The player then needs to be told these 10 unique areas exist otherwise they'll have no meaning when they find them. But how can you convery to the user that these locations are in the world when they are placed randomly?

Gotta ask yourself why people explore. If I mine a cave in Minecraft what is the main factor that draws me into mining my next cave?

[jeffrobot]

I wanted to add something about the loot-gathering appeal of most of these games.

I played Terraria for about 10 hours with my friends, and had a lot of fun scouring the caves and biomes for various items. However, I think it's really important to understand WHY I enjoyed that, because in most grindy rpg affairs, I could care less about getting the next piece of equipment - I don't like sinking my time into games like that.

I cared in Terraria because of the presence of my friends. I wanted to get more/better loot than them because I wanted to rub their noses in it and feel like a badass. I was literally mining as FAST as I could below my friends because I wanted to get the treasure before them. It wasn't about improving my character for my character's sake, it was all about getting to be smug because I had the sweet new treasure.

If I had just been playing by myself, I think the appeal would have worn off pretty quickly.

For a lot of gamers, it's enough to play through a single-player game gathering loot. But for others, you need to give them a more meaningful reason to collect said loot. In Terraria, the reason for me was to be better than my friends.

Minecraft doesn't appeal too much to me because none of my friends have it, so it won't have any of that social significance for me were I to play it.

[JasonPickering]

so is it the collection thing or is it the stats in general. so if you were playing with a friend and he said hey I got a new sword is that the same as when he says hey so I was totally digging a hole and I uncovered a cavern with a T-Rex skeleton buried inside it. is it 'aw man I wish I had found that before them' or do you actually like having an object.

[jeffrobot]

If their sword was better than mine, I would think "aww fuck that, I need a new sword." If they found a t-rex graveyard, I would also be jealous and wish I had been there at the time of discovering.

I'm starting to look like an asshole, but I imagine most people are like this when playing coop/competitive games with their friends....?

Also, I can totally a enjoy a 100% cooperative experience in games. I've played Trine with friends and had a lot of fun. This is just my two cents about gathering loot.

[Ashkin]

I agree that competition is a huge aspect of mining games. But my question is, would a highscores board have the same effect or even anything close? I'm thinking that it wouldn't, because there's not that personal aspect- they're not people you're competing with, they're just numbers.