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[1982]

I thought theres place for its own discussion, so I don't have to side rail other topics with this thought.

I'm am completely sure that serious gaming doesn't require musical score or background music at all, and its usage makes game actually worse. By serious games I mean bigger, serious, story drawn, and immersive games like Deus Ex, Half Life, System Shock, and so on. Games that try to represent as believable world and environment to player as possible - immersion.  

Why not music then? - It has nothing to do with believable world. It kills the immersion. In real world, you usually don't hear music in your head only. Unless you are using headphones. But then again either you select the music by yourself or it is completely random and has probably nothing to do with actual living environment.  

However you can hear music in the environment through radio inside shops or waiting rooms, in elevators, in concerts etc. That is called source music. Music usage in serious gaming should be always about source music only. It adds up the immersion a lot, and does not kill it like "abstract" background music.

Why is background music used? -Because with music it is easy to control players emotions and expectations. Set up the mood, give subtle or not subtle hints about something. Convey desired emotion. Only too bad that in real immersive world it doesn't work like this. And nor should it in serious games either. All the narration should be told via elements inside the actual game world. Music usage is cheap, and is there only to try to force you to feel certain way like designers intend, just because they are not capable of doing it through more important and better means. But with clever source music usage, you can make good narratives without killing immersion!

I personally always mute the music off in all serious games I play. It works great.

All this same applies same way into serious films as well. Take a look at Wrestler and you know what I mean. It has really little music and it is mostly source music when used. Here is one scene:

[trq]

I don't think "serious game" and "immersion" always means realistic game environment. For example, Silent Hill games - deep, story drawn, high immersive, with excellent music.

As regards to movies, I completely disagree as well, since "serious" film doesn't have to be realistic and immersive. Though, it depends on situation

[bart_the_13th]

I personally always mute the music off in all serious games I play. It works great.

You're not alone Some games doesn't even bother to throw in any BGM at all
Sometime background music can hinder the gameplay itself.
Some may argue that some great serious game need some nice music, RPGs for example. Now if you look deeper, that game actually have serious flaw, boredom, having to hack through a dungeon w/o any music played can easily lead player to boredom. That's where music come to play, to 'hide' the 'flaw' the designer made, lack of immersion.
On the other hand, in some already great game like SMB, music is really as to lighten up the situation, you can play it without any music(even no sound at all) and you still can play it for hours

[1982]

On the other hand, in some already great game like SMB, music is really as to lighten up the situation, you can play it without any music(even no sound at all) and you still can play it for hours

Yes these I tend to call "laid back games", where music is very needed addition. And in these games music itself has a entertainment value - if it is good anyway.

I don't think "serious game" and "immersion" always means realistic game environment. For example, Silent Hill games - deep, story drawn, high immersive, with excellent music.

As regards to movies, I completely disagree as well, since "serious" film doesn't have to be realistic and immersive. Though, it depends on situation

Of course not realism equals immersion, that was not what I meant. Silent Hill for example can be very immersive without being that realistic. However, also there applies that it doesn't need the music.

In movies thou it is a lot harder to be immersive and fantasy at the same time, because a film cannot ever achieve the immersion level which good game can. Actually because there is no immersion level even to start with, background music is not that harmful in films than in games. I'd say 99% of major films go into laid back category, and few exceptions like Wrestler can be considered serious.

In gaming there is a lot more bigger percent of immersive games, because generally games have that edge of easily to be immersive. Also thats way bad music usage is quite harmful too.

[dek]

It really depends on what you define as music. I dont know where this discussion originates.
I clearly remember the ambient soundtrack of HL2 (I think HL1 had one too?). God, I loved that... it plays a huge role in what made HL2 a good game (for me). I would definitely say its music, especially with some of the ambient tracks that use drumloops.

These really only need one sound to express/define the whole mood of the game. Amazing if you ask me!

[sublinimal]

Absolute silence can be the creepiest BGM sometimes. Imagine a boss fight with Death itself, with no sound at all.

[rivon]

I really disagree. Metal Gear Solid without the music wouldn't be Metal Gear Solid. The music is just an irremovable part of the game. It would be a totally different game without it.
The same can be said about many other games.

[1982]

Absolute silence can be the creepiest BGM sometimes. Imagine a boss fight with Death itself, with no sound at all.

Problem with absolute silence is that it is too easy to misunderstood as being glitch, than intention But yes I approve that thought!

[_Tommo_]

*snip*

In fact no movies at all have a soundtrack, as they evidently are all photorealistic and very story driven!  

Music is one of the most powerful tools to underline an atmosphere a feeling or whatever, and has been used like this in nearly all art mediums that support it, so the whole point "lol reality has no music I want a realistic game" is moot.
Silence or static or whatever is just another sound background type, often it is used as an absence of music.

Just watch any great movie, they all have great usage of background music, with nearly no exception!
Do remove music from 2001: A space odissey, or a spaghetti western, or whatever and tell me what remains.

PS: maybe I'm a bit biased - to me music in videogames is just a little less important than graphics (and Bioshock had one of the best OST usage, imo) and I couldn't really give a shit of the "realisticness" of the whole thing. I'm much more immersed when there's music.
I guess depends on the person... but I also guess that being "immersed" by music is more common, and I can't find nothing bad about it.

[biomechanic]

Because games can directly control only two senses it is perfectly normal for their makers to use them to make up for the other three.

In the real world I don't always hear a calm, jingly tune when strolling down a beach in the summer, but I have the smell of the sea, the warmth of the Sun and the sand enveloping my feet with every step. And even though (that's how you spell it) the game can't give me the same sensory input, it can evoke through music the memory of that experience, which would then blend with the play experience.

In the real world when I'm running I don't always hear a fast beat action music, but I have the beating of my own heart, wind swishing past my face, my feet hitting the dirt and a cocktail of glandular secretions running through my body. Again, the game can't give me the actual experience, but can make me remember it - which is the next best thing.

I can't think of a game in which the music killed immersion, in most games it is music that makes the immersion possible.

[_Tommo_]

biomechanic said it better than me :D

[Indestructible]

Depends. I dont think that music would be good if it played ALL THE TIME but I dont think  it should me completely removed. It would be inappropriate to have a background score that plays while the player is supposed to pay attention to something else however it still is a good influence on the psyche. However dont trust me on that as I play dwarf fortress with the background music on

[sublinimal]

Absolute silence can be the creepiest BGM sometimes. Imagine a boss fight with Death itself, with no sound at all.

Problem with absolute silence is that it is too easy to misunderstood as being glitch, than intention

That's part of the horror, I think. Then again, I am glitchphobic. When computers do something that suggests they have a mind of their own, it just freaks me out.

[biomechanic]

@Jasmine
It was serious immersive games, not mobile or arcade games.
Background music, not any sound.

Even so, all the "other people may not like it" problems can be fixed with headphones.

[1982]

I can't think of a game in which the music killed immersion, in most games it is music that makes the immersion possible.

Well they are quite bad games then if they have to rely on music that much. I have had no problem getting immersion without music.

And yes, I am also heavy user of music as being also composer myself. I love music because it is abstract and provokes wide range of emotions much better than any other form of art. Still, I don't want to hear it when I play serious immersive games. If it doesn't belong to the actual game world, don't force it.

[biomechanic]

If you discard music as unimportant, why stop there? Let's throw away all the sounds as well, maybe put in some sfxr beeps just so the user gets some feedback. And lets drop the graphics, simple primitives will do - if the game isn't "quite bad" it won't have to rely on them...

Maybe the "no music" approach would work for some sort of ultra-realistic VR non-game in which you just want the user to see and hear the facts of the simulation, but I dare venture an opinion that in an immersive game you want to give the player the truth of the experience.

Categorically denying the use of music is like taking away any other element of the game - you lose a huge part of what makes that experience happen.

So you don't need that, or at least you think you don't. Good for you. But your not liking background music is no base for saying that games shouldn't have any.

And yes, I am also heavy user of music as being also composer myself.

Tunes or it didn't happen.

[SundownKid]

Applying this to all 'serious' games is, quite frankly, ridiculous. Do all 'serious' movies have no music? I highly doubt it. The lack of music can be very powerful and useful for atmosphere, but it's not a definitive fact and this is simply one person's view on the matter. Games without music quickly become boring because unlike in real life, there is no way to experience the emotions viscerally without music to guide you.

[1982]

If you discard music as unimportant, why stop there? Let's throw away all the sounds as well, maybe put in some sfxr beeps just so the user gets some feedback. And lets drop the graphics, simple primitives will do - if the game isn't "quite bad" it won't have to rely on them...

Maybe the "no music" approach would work for some sort of ultra-realistic VR non-game in which you just want the user to see and hear the facts of the simulation, but I dare venture an opinion that in an immersive game you want to give the player the truth of the experience.

Categorically denying the use of music is like taking away any other element of the game - you lose a huge part of what makes that experience happen.

So you don't need that, or at least you think you don't. Good for you. But your not liking background music is no base for saying that games shouldn't have any.

Tunes or it didn't happen.

http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=3248.msg618885#msg618885

I was removing only one thing from serious games, and that is background music which does not have source. I'm not removing graphics, sounds, characters, actions etc. They all are very important in games I am talking about. Music is not, it doesn't have source or substance. It is there only because it is expected to be, or when designers want to hide otherwise weak narrative, or because lame imitation of film tradition. These all are bad reasons.

No-music approach works very well in ultra realistic simulations, as well as in more fantasy/scifi games. It doesn't work well in game like e.g. Contra.

I've given a lot thought for if it's personal taste of not actually liking the music. And it is not, I've come to a conclusion that even if I was able to listen the best possible music for my taste, it won't still work in serious gaming. Kill your darlings.

Games without music quickly become boring because unlike in real life, there is no way to experience the emotions viscerally without music to guide you.

Never experienced this. If game has become boring or bad, it definitely isn't so because I turned music off.

music to guide you

You just said what is the worst part of the whole deal. Background music is the last thing that should guide your actions and emotions in a game environment.

[rivon]

You're just not right.
The games are kind of packages of experience. Without music, the experience is totally different. The game would have totally different feel, the same with movies. The Good, the Bad & the Ugly final three-way duel would feel totally different without Moricone's awesome music. It would be MUCH less epic. And that's it. The creators wanted it to feel like that. If you play any game and just turn off the music you're getting completely different experience than the creators anticipated.

[DavidCaruso]

Deus Ex and System Shock 2 wouldn't be better at all without their respective soundtracks. Neither would Total Annihilation. The fact is that music is a key part of what immerses me into a game's world, especially with older games (some new games like doing "ambient" stuff, but honestly they would also be improved with actual soundtracks.) Music also helps build up tension and anticipation for what's coming; in old games, whenever I first reach the end of a level and the music changes into a more ominous or fast-paced theme, I know that some shit's about to go down and I get tensed for it. It helps you get pumped for what's going on.