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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperDesignRun Button
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Sean A.
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« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2011, 08:39:51 PM »

A lot of SHMUPs have variable speed levels for precision when there are a ton of bullets on screen so that is understandable. One thing I hate about walk buttons is they are often used to silence footsteps for stealth but if you're going for stealth wouldn't crouching be the better option to make yourself smaller? Crouching almost always silences footsteps as well so a walk button isn't really needed.
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2011, 10:20:08 PM »

i like when it's optional. some games have an option to make run the default and press a button to walk (i think ff7 or something did that, or some other rpgs in that era).
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baconman
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« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2011, 10:26:56 PM »

Another alternative thing popped into my head while I was eating dinner today.

You have a base walking/running speed that was overall fairly paced, not unlike Mario walking, for instance. But then you accelerate by using the jump button, rather than a run button; so by tapping it with a particular rhythm, you get the benefits of running in exchange for a degree of control precision; you'd actually have to land and then go another 3-4 tiles of deceleration before you got back to normal speed, during which you could jump again to keep your momentum up. A combination of high-horizontal and low-to-medium-vertical momentum could then be used, along with various inclines, to control your direction.

1. You're moving on a platform, duh.
2. You press jump; which bumps your momentum upwards a bit, enough to clear a tile or two high, and to a directiontal maximum speed, equal to the direction you're already walking in.
3. The "additional height" variable can be nixed by releasing the jump button, but the directional momentum is solid until you hit the ground.
4. Once you land, your momentum will decelerate for the first 3-6 tiles to a rate that returns you to the normal walking speed; during which you can freely rejump to the same effect.

This creates a rhythmic-like sensation similar to running and striding, along with a degree of precision handling (the extra height/clearance, and the change in pacing that using it allows). You can "stride" at a slower-than-optimal pace this way, but it will still carry you much faster than walking. Walking is still vital to precise positioning, since striding with the jump button, even once, will still move you a significant distance further.

PRE-EDIT: I'll finish this thought in a bit. Something came up.
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Stephen Orlando
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« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2011, 12:52:38 PM »

I was considering this topic the other day when working out an idea for a platform shooter. What do you think of having no run button but when the player is pressing a directional key the in-game character starts walking but slowly accelerates into a jog and then a run? It wouldn't be that dissimilar to Sonic. Would this end up being too frustrating to a player?
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« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2011, 03:06:04 PM »

What do you guys think about a double tapping a direction to run? I really like that, but I haven't seen it outside of the fighter and beat em up genres at all.
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mirosurabu
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« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2011, 03:21:24 PM »

I've seen it in the very first Alone in the Dark and it was awful. Epileptic But it can probably work well if it's done well.

I think good game design will make sure that everything is properly balanced (in a RPS fashion; as in - A beats B, B beats C, C beats A). This applies to navigational modes too. So if a game makes distinction between "walking" and "running" then it should better have walking be preferable option in cases A, B and C, and running be preferable in cases D, E and F.

Demon's Souls (again!) is an example of this. While it limits you from running all the time, it also teaches you that running is associated with high risk of death when in exploration mode, and that vice-versa applies during battles (and especially boss battles).

I think the bigger problem is balancing. In Super Mario Bros, running is associated with high risk of death too, however, it seem it doesn't apply to everyone.
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P-Flute
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« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2011, 10:17:04 PM »

What do you guys think about a double tapping a direction to run? I really like that, but I haven't seen it outside of the fighter and beat em up genres at all.

I'm actually a pretty big fan of this setup, so long as the delay between taps is just right; Not having to try multiple times to do it fast enough, but not accidentally activating it all the time. 

It can be a bit of effort to start up a run, as opposed to just holding a button.  But I suppose that fact has merit in its own right; running being something you have to commit to, so players will (probably) actually be more aware of the merits of running and walking respectively?
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gimymblert
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« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2011, 09:58:03 AM »

"Taping" the analog, analog overall is the ultimate running control
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baconman
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« Reply #28 on: April 26, 2011, 10:27:50 AM »

What do you guys think about a double tapping a direction to run? I really like that, but I haven't seen it outside of the fighter and beat em up genres at all.

MegaMan X ftw. Wink

Though what would be interesting is combining that with the jump-input thing I mentioned before - so appropriately rhythmic tapping leads to running, where holding it would just be a quick spurt, followed by a steady walk.
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paste
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« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2011, 03:26:00 PM »

What do you think of having no run button but when the player is pressing a directional key the in-game character starts walking but slowly accelerates into a jog and then a run?

I personally don't like it because there's a loss of control.  It's like making me walk or run when I don't necessarily want to.

What do you guys think about a double tapping a direction to run?

I also don't like this.  It kind of breaks up the rhythm of the movement, and I also end up mashing the button over and over instead of just holding down a button. 

I prefer to just have a run button or always run.
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SirNiko
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« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2011, 06:11:05 PM »

The purpose of double-tap to run is to allow for run and walk options on a digital pad without consuming a dedicated "Run" key. When every other key is mapped to a unique attack, you don't have any other way to get a speed toggle.

Analog sticks have made the whole speed modulation thing pretty moot, as analog controlled naturally implies speed modulation. New Super Mario Bros brought back "Hold 2 to run".

The run key can be meaningful if the fatigue gauge converts it into a limited resource. In your typical racing game, for example, the Nitrous serves the function of a run button and fatigue gauge.

I consider Super Meat Boy to be demonstrative of the problem the OP states - in all but ONE situation, I found it ideal to hold the run button from start to end of level. It was in exactly one level (Cotton Alley 18 or 19) where running would get you killed in the last stretch. Otherwise, running was optimal. It would have made more sense to have a 'walk' button, for all reasons except to imitate classic platformers. This is especially strange because several characters have their special moves tied to the run button, which means they can't run anyway.

Somebody further up pointed out that when you spend more time simply holding the button than not, you've made a design error. I agree with that. Make up more reasons to not hold run, or make run the default mode of movement.
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« Reply #31 on: April 27, 2011, 06:17:54 AM »

I consider Super Meat Boy to be demonstrative of the problem the OP states - in all but ONE situation, I found it ideal to hold the run button from start to end of level. It was in exactly one level (Cotton Alley 18 or 19) where running would get you killed in the last stretch. Otherwise, running was optimal. It would have made more sense to have a 'walk' button, for all reasons except to imitate classic platformers. This is especially strange because several characters have their special moves tied to the run button, which means they can't run anyway.

Varying your speed is helpful if you're not trying to go for the target time, especially if you're trying to complete a world without dying.  I thought it made some levels easier to vary the speed for split-second precision, and it seems unnatural to have a walk button instead of a run button, but maybe that's just cos I'm so used to the run button in the game at this point.
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« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2011, 11:08:17 AM »

Hard cops:uprising is the game i played with the most useful run button. You don't press it because the game is too fast-paced to follow by running but in some circumstances it can help a lot or have to be used. Very good use of the run button.

New super mario bros is a good game but with a bad running button. 99% of the time i played with 1 press. It's very uncomfortable at the beggining. It's not as if the normal speed is really useful, you can't make 75% of the jump in the game without running.
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Shackhal
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« Reply #33 on: April 29, 2011, 01:16:01 AM »

To my opinion, the "run button" depends of the design part. If is needed, then awesome. But if don't, then awesome too!! It's all in to keep a useful gameplay in your game...
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