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[I_smell]

Yo dawgs. I'm at a bit of a conflict and need some input. To basically introduce who I am: I make games at home and sell em, I want to work in a professional team, and I just got a job about 3 weeks ago. Here's where I am:

A couple weeks ago I started workin at [Actually I should probably remove the name], an independant studio made up of a very small team. They needed an animator, an that's me. I can't say what they're workin on cos y'know- contracts etc. It's great for me to be here allready cos I came straight out of college without spendin 3 years on a degree. The people there are fab, and I can do the job.

Here's where things get messy though: My contractual hours are 10 til 6:30 Monday to Friday, but I actually work from 10 til 8 or 9, and I just got a phone call asking why I didn't show up today (Saturday).
I get paid £50 a week (that's about a quid an hour) and my boss had a meeting with me to see if he could get it any lower. I make a lot more than that by sitting at home making my own games.
I'd guess that they don't have a lot of money, but right as I started work they bought a £300 statue of Big Boss to decorate the office, and it stands right next to me. That's my wages for the next 6 weeks.

Considering I've got zero work experience, I've got a lot of work to do in a fucking short amount of time. I can't say exactly what I do there, but they've needed an animator for a while. If I left, they'd have to get someone new in immediately.

Now don't get me wrong; I like working there. I work in a small team where everyone knows each other, and I've met people who've worked in games for decades. Oddly enough though, my parents hate that I have this job. They hate me getting home from work at 9 or 10 every night, they hate that I spend my wages on getting to work, hate that people are phoning me askin where I am on weekends, and basically think I'm an idiot for putting up with it. If I don't quit soon enough, my dad is gonna walk in there and get me fired one way or another.

So I might actually quit.
Everyone comment on this, cos I need pushing over to one side o the fence. My brother's first job was an absolute joke, they basically hired a load of fresh-faced graduates just so they could take advantage. Leaving that place ended up workin out great for him- That was a few years ago.

[brog]

Quit.  You're working hard, being paid basically nothing.  Effectively, you're doing charity work.  Except not for a good cause, just for the profit of these guys who are taking advantage of you.  If you were getting a share of the profits, then maybe, if you really believe they'll actually finish the game (which is uncommon), but you're not.  So just leave now.

[george]

Here's where things get messy though: My contractual hours are 10 til 6:30 Monday to Friday, but I actually work from 10 til 8 or 9, and I just got a phone call asking why I didn't show up today (Saturday).
I get paid £50 a week (that's about a quid an hour) and my boss had a meeting with me to see if he could get it any lower.

I must not be understanding this correctly. Are you saying you're paid fifty pounds a week, as in 80 U.S. dollars, for working 50 hours???

Or did you post this from 1935.

[Jimbob]

Uh... heard of minimum wage much? Especially as you mention 'contractual hours'... no contract saying that much work for that much can be legal surely...

[I_smell]

Okay so far this sounds like what everyone else is telling me. I think I forgot to mention that I've just come out of College, didn't go to Uni, and they say I'm getting paid in work experience. I don't think that makes a difference to anyone at this point though.

If you were getting a share of the profits, then maybe, if you really believe they'll actually finish the game (which is uncommon), but you're not. 

That's a good point. I can't say anything about the game I'm working on, but personally I don't think it'll make it through the gates.

[raiten]

Wow, I_Smell, get out of there NOW, what the hell? Is that kind of slave labouring even legal in the UK? I know the unions would be all over this here in Sweden. Your parents are fucking right, how can you stay there?

[Jimbob]

Coming straight out of college just means that they think you're easier to exploit, when in fact it's just slave labour. If you're essential to the team, and not just doing an internship, they are really fucking out of line.

[Glaiel-Gamer]

That sounds like slave labor to me. That's like less than $5k USD per year... you can make that much in under a month off of a flash game...

Hell, I make that much from picking up change off the streets

[george]

Okay so far this sounds like what everyone else is telling me. I think I forgot to mention that I've just come out of College, didn't go to Uni, and they say I'm getting paid in work experience. I don't think that makes a difference to anyone at this point though.

It's not unusual in the U.S. to take an unpaid internship in some field you're interested in, and I've heard that in some fields that are very competitive to get into, the interns can have a tough time of it. It's your decision to make whether you think the work experience and contacts you're making are worth it to you.

I was a little confused at first, I thought this was a legit job. That it's an internship does make it a little less clear-cut in my opinion. But if you think you don't need this intermediary step of an internship, by all means get out of there.


eta:

If you're essential to the team, and not just doing an internship, they are really fucking out of line.

That sums it up best.

[aeiowu]

Give them an ultimatum. Something like rev-share and your own hours.

Even then though these people sound poisonous. I've found with poisonous folk it's best to just get as far away as possible as soon as possible. They do the most damage to honest people that "want things to work." Sounds like you're one of those honest people.

Too often "inexperienced" creative people get abused like this, though I've never heard of something this bad. To be honest, I think you'd get more experience simply by finding a nice programmer and an artist to work on stuff in your free time while making a living doing something unrelated and low on responsibility (barista, cook, waiter).

EDIT: but if this were an unpaid internship, you'd be treated a lot better. At least if they were decent people I don't think they'd be relying on you to do all of their animation. In an internship, unpaid especially, you'd be working with a professional animator and helping out as more of an apprentice. The value would be in those lessons you'd get directly from a professional. This doesn't seem to be the case here.

[Dataflashsabot]

That's absurd, get outta there!

[I_smell]

If you're essential to the team, and not just doing an internship, they are really fucking out of line.

They're talking about it like it's an internship, but I'm the only animator on the team doing all the animation in the game.

That's like less than $5k USD per year... you can make that much in under a month off of a flash game...

I actually did make more than this yearly wage on a Flash game in two weeks: Robot Dinosaurs in April.
I know I can't do that forever though, and this is why I need work experience.

[raiten]

You know, an internship is only worthwhile if it's for a respectable company. I mean, apparently this isn't an internship, but say it was. from what you've told us, I think it's fair to say the company you work for is shit and poops and diarrhea.

[valkrin]

LEAVE IMMEDIATELY. It will be the best thing you can do for your career. Look ELSEWHERE. Where you are currently working is by no means the norm and in no way does it imply that you cannot find something better.

If I understand you correctly, you keep saying that you need the experience, and I get the impression that, that alone is your primary justification for this job. If that is the case, then you've got it all wrong. You do not need to accept what amounts to slave labor for the opportunity to gain experience.

Experience should be acquired working on challenging projects, in an environment that nurtures growth and values YOU. Also you do not simply gain experience through repetition, you must learn from those more experienced from you. If you are the sole animator, what more experienced veteran on the team will you learn from?

If you are truly looking to enhance your skills, make a game with some indie devs. You will learn more than you possibly can working for those leeches.

[ElijahKatz]

Dude. Your games are amazing. Get out of that shithole and make more of what you love doing!

[Craig Stern]

I'd be surprised if that arrangement didn't violate any labor laws. I'd quit if I were you.

[Sam]

It really does violate labour laws.

Minimum wage in the UK for anyone over 22 is £5.73 an hour (£4.77 if you're 18 to 22.)  Only way you can pay someone less than that is if they're on an apprenticeship scheme (and that means actually being on an apprenticeship scheme, not "it's kind of like being an apprentice.")

You can submit a complaint to the government online if you like:
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/nmw/complaint.htm

Either way, get outta there.

[I_smell]

Let's not get wrapped up in what's legal and what's not, cos I'm gettin paid cash-in-hand. None of us are lawyers, and I wouldn't feel great about forcing a couple thousand pounds away from anyone. You should sue is allways a really over-excited thing to say.

[Snakey]

Even if you leave, I don't believe that the team members that you like being around are going to hate you. I feel that as soon as you said "I can make more doing what I do at home", that you probably should leave as well.

Experience is only worth getting if anyone values it. Working at a small game start up, may acquire you some experience, but is the actual experience worth anything? That one is a hard one for me to judge here ... but it usually worths more if the experience is from people who are well known within the industry. Typically, if you are going to be an intern / apprentice you would have a mentor to help guide you along your way. Otherwise you would be doing what everyone else is doing anyways.

It seems that the boss or the people running the place don't really know how to budget. If that was me, I'd always put employees first over myself. After all, I should be providing employees the best environment so that they can get their work completed. Buying a random decoration is cool, but you only do that when everyone is happy for you to do that...

To put things into perspective, I live in New Zealand. People on the dole (unemployed people who are given money from the Government to help support themselves) are given about $250 NZD per week. That's 105.19 pounds for doing absolutely nothing. People who are paid minimum wage for 40 hours work are paid about $500 NZD per week. That's 210.37 pounds for doing any kind of random job (such as cleaning an office).

I'd suggest you leave, and run far, far, far away.

[Μarkham]

Anything where the payment is "work experience" is something nobody should agree to.  You don't go to a neurosurgeon and ask for a free brain surgery because he can "put it on his resume."