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[moi]

Tell them to fuck off, they're trying to exploit you, and from what you've told us they seem to really have no respect for you.
You'd be better working anywhere else (although I know the employment situation is a bit shitty in the UK these days, but don't let people disrespect you).

[Snakey]

 

Heck, even I'd pay you $50 pound a week to make me some games.

[raiten]

Heck, even I'd pay you $50 pound a week to make me some games.

In that case I'll pay $51

[Ajene]

i'll go in for $55 lol, i would quit if i were you man.

[Snakey]

I raise that to ..... 60 pounds per week!

*Pinky to the mouth pose*

[Stegersaurus]

Let's not get wrapped up in what's legal and what's not, cos I'm gettin paid cash-in-hand.

But that's the rub... you AREN'T getting paid. If the amount they are GIVING you is less than the minimum wage and would not be a livable income if you were on your own, that isn't in the realm of a valid salary. It's a deft attempt to placate someone desperate. As others have said, if it's an internship, it should be labeled EXPLICITLY as such going through all the right channels with all the normal stipulations that go with an internship. If they have you listed as an employee and not an intern, then I wouldn't be surprised if they are doing something fishy with their book keeping to avoid the government finding out they are paying their employees below min wage. Who knows, maybe someone higher up is even pocketing what should be your wages? You can probably get more "industry exposure" through online volunteer projects than you can through this company.

[Cagey]

If you're worried about getting work experience, show any respectable company all the flash games you've made and they will know you mean serious business. It takes a lot of dedication to complete a single game, let alone a collection of great games.

[Triplefox]

I worked for a shop that cut an awful lot of corners, and I rode along with it until the wheels came off a few months ago. Pay was cut, and it started to come months late by the end, but it did eventually come in. The reason why it was easy to stay on board in my case was because my workload became quite light(the bottlenecks were in the rest of the team - the most I could do was clear the way for them, which they respected) and I was still pulling enough money to gain some savings. My salary was low for the industry but definitely better than working retail or food service. Plus after getting laid off, unemployment benefits were sufficient funding for me to take on a bigger project.

I did learn a lot about taking on ambitious projects, cutting them down to size, learning the different roles in small-to-medium-sized teams, and developer/publisher/licensor relationships. That was all very valuable and has helped me tremendously to focus my own efforts.

In your case the main factor would be - are there grizzled vets around the shop that you can learn something from? Those are the guys that can give you a leg up, and you need only stay a few months, at most, to get most of the benefit from their presence. Other than that, there's nothing in it for you in this job, especially with such a poor wage.

[Draknek]

Let's not get wrapped up in what's legal and what's not, cos I'm gettin paid cash-in-hand. None of us are lawyers, and I wouldn't feel great about forcing a couple thousand pounds away from anyone. You should sue is allways a really over-excited thing to say.

The cash-in-hand only makes it more suspicious. If they are breaking the law (which sounds probable, but obviously we can't make that call), why not report them? Whose interests are you looking out for?

Leave. You're not getting anything out of this situation.

[lordmetroid]

I would never report them, he is doing it voluntary and they are doing it on a voluntary basis. No one is really hurt here. Going to the government is the very last resort, it is costly and consumes your time like nothing else.

It would be much better to just quit and get a new job somewhere else.

[Eclipse]

Fist i had to say that I LOVE Robot Dinosaurs.

Now let's start with the current discussion, I worked for three years here in italy, in small and middle-sized software houses, and a lot of them act in that same manner.

Here's where things get messy though: My contractual hours are 10 til 6:30 Monday to Friday, but I actually work from 10 til 8 or 9, and I just got a phone call asking why I didn't show up today (Saturday).

that's normal... people usually works the Saturday in a lot of places, i could leave when i wanted, but sometimes i even did nights working when i had to meet a deadline, that's something you can't do nothing about, if you accept a schedule you need to meet it, even if it will lead to do extra hours... the trick here is to not accept crazy deadlines from the start.

I get paid £50 a week (that's about a quid an hour)

Ok, that's SLAVERY, say them to fuck off, I was paid around 50 EUR a day (around 1300-1500 eur per month, taxes excluded), basically more in a day than you get in a week, even if your one is an entry-level job that's not fair at all, i'd pay you more for some animations as freelance job if i had the money.

Leave with a big "FUCK YOU!" and slam the door, you can do much more on your own, from house, with flash games.
Luckly not every team is like that...

[increpare]

I was pretty sure that your original post was a joke when I read it first.  I still don't really believe that you would be that stupid.

hmm.

[Eclipse]

c'mon increpare, i bet it's already an hard situation as it is!
He surely got the wrong way, but i can understand that starting in the industry leads to ungrateful situations most of the times.

For me, for example is that i expected to be "in the industry" and I discovered that i was working for a bunch of idiots that knew way less than me about how to make a game.

Tom, you really got talent, I'v just played Legend of JOHNNY and it's fuckin' amazing, you can aim way, WAY higher than this.

I really wish i had some spare money to do an xbox live game with you

[mewse]

The question you have to ask yourself is why you should stay there.

You might choose to stay for the money.  (Actually, based on what you've said, this one isn't a compelling reason)

Or if not, you might stay for the money-down-the-road, when the project you're working on is released, becomes a runaway best-seller, and your share of the profits make you absurdly wealthy beyond your wildest dreams.  (Only applicable if they've given you a share in the company, or if there are royalty rights already written into your employment contract.  I assume that neither of these is the case, and so this one is probably also out.  But if you do have one or the other, you need to make your best guess about whether the game is likely to ever be released, and whether it's likely to actually become a runaway best-seller)

Or you might want to stay just for the experience;  simply to learn from the people who've done this stuff before.  (This will depend on how awesome the people around you there are, and on how much that's worth to you)

Or maybe you think that if you keep working there for a while, it'll make it easier to get your foot in the door at a different company later on.  This can work, but it only works if you actually release at least one game while you're there, and that game receives halfway-decent reviews.  So if this is your reason for staying, you need to do some soul-searching and decide whether you think they'll release a game which is reviewed favourably.

Or you might be working there because there's nothing better available.  (Actually, you say that you'd earn more by working as an entrepreneur, so this isn't it.  But if this was it, you definitely want to be looking for another job while continuing to work there;  it's always worth looking to find that "something better"!)

Or maybe some other reason that I haven't thought of.  But you need to find a reason to stay;  a reason other than simply inertia;  that that's what you're already doing, and therefore it'd be too much effort to change now.  If you can find a reason, and the reason makes sense to you, then go for it.


(But with all that said, it sounds like a terrible place to work, to me.  But I'm not the one who has to live with it, so it's really not my call.) 

[I_smell]

It's slightly worrying how everyone's asking how I think the game will be when it comes out- because the game doesn't look that great, and I don't think the audience of our priority platform is gonna pick it up at all. I really think they've chose the wrong platform to focus on. Y'all know what I mean; they WANT to release it on platform X when it's much better suited to platform I.

Also the issue of who I'm learning from is slightly shakey. The boss has a good few years of experience, but everyone else is either straight out of uni or currently studying. People come in from time to time who've worked in games for decades and that really shows.

I really wish i had some spare money to do an xbox live game with you

Thanks, I'd be up for that.

Anyway the boss and the sub-boss (mini-boss?) are away this week, so I don't wanna leave them totally in the shit, and I don't fancy explaining my problems to anyone who isn't the boss. So maybe I'll just hang on for a week.

[Jason Bakker]

Yeah, it sounds like, from their perspective, they're bringing you on as an internship, with some slight monetary benefits, but to them it isn't as if you're an actual employee there yet. It's quid pro quo with them getting cheap work, and you getting experience. But in that case, they definitely shouldn't be working you into the ground the way you are. If you are integral to their process, bring it up and ask to become a proper employee, and if not, then they shouldn't be asking you to come in and work crazy long hours.

I know you're probably not a confrontational person, neither am I, so the idea of talking to them and saying "pay me a decent wage or I have to go" would seem pretty unappealing... but in the industry (and outside of it, really), you have to be able to stand up for yourself, otherwise you will get exploited like this.

[Eclipse]

Thanks, I'd be up for that.

Anyway the boss and the sub-boss (mini-boss?) are away this week, so I don't wanna leave them totally in the shit, and I don't fancy explaining my problems to anyone who isn't the boss. So maybe I'll just hang on for a week.

I think that in this situation that's the best and the most professinal way to act, explain to the boss\mini-boss in private that you was expecting much more from the work when they'll be back and then leave.
I did exactly the same with my last job, i was expecting to work on a wii\pc game but they got short on funds during the development and the entire team switched to iphon\mobile\flash crap, the sort of thing i can do myself during my spare time, I wasn't under a contract (they always delayed that matter) so i just dropped the ball.

Another collegue followed me shortly after and now we're working on our own game, trying to fund our own indie software house  

[bateleur]

The point of minimum wage isn't solely to sue people (which would be pointless in this case). The existence of a minimum wage level provides a negotiating tool for employees in an otherwise weak position to prevent exploitation by their employers.

That said, I don't see this case as employment. The unnamed game company is exploiting I_smell's desire to be in the industry by persuading him to do voluntary work for them. This basically is an unpaid voluntary post, with the only difference being that they are misleadingly not characterising it as such. The £50/w is just confusing the issue.

[Destral]

50 quid a week is way below minimum wage in the UK, so that should be a warning sign right there. If you're telling me they're trying to haggle you even below that, the company doesn't deserve the time you are putting in there.

If I were you I would request a reasonable salary for the work you are doing, and barring that, would quit. Like you said, you make more money making your own games and selling them. Those conditions are inexcusable, no matter how tight their budget is.

The only reason why I would suggest staying there would be if you feel you are gaining invaluable experience, the game is going to be halfway decent, and your name is going to appear in the credits. That right there will open some doors for you in the future. On the other hand, however, if you can make your own games, and they are good, there really is no reason for you to work there unless you feel you are gaining something you think you can't gain elsewhere.

[undertech]

Leave and take the statue with you. Who do these people think they are, blizzard?