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[rj]

@catguy - you totally schooled me! that's what i get for not knowing jack shit about programming and its limitations w/r/t genre. i was just considering aesthetics and mechanics, not actual, you know, guts.

i should have mentioned balance in a deeper way than "it's hard to make competitive games feel good" because that's a big deal too and easily why there aren't a whole lot of indie fighters with mega popularity either

w/r/t it not being in vogue anymore that's partially true (and there definitely haven't been (m)any good traditional rtses of recent years) though tbh i'm not sure that that's ever stopped an obsessive indie dev with passion from making something before

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[Dragonmaw]

Traditional RTS games are indeed not so popular simply because they are far more mechanically complex than other genres.

Non-traditional RTS games, like Harvest: Massive Encounter or Creeper World or so on are made fairly regularly.

[Leon Fook]

@rj
You does have the point about artstyle, but i guess the example you post is really just the dev f**k up, mostly because the color is just not visible compare to the 2d sprite.
It just something team based game dev have to take note and they failed to notice or ignored the thing.

[Oskuro]

I often wondered this very same thing.

Then one day I tried to implement my own very basic chess AI.

Now I know why so many developers pass on these types of games. 

[oahda]

Because RTS and MOBA are the worst genres ever. Duh.

[Leon Fook]

Because RTS and MOBA are the worst genres ever. Duh.

I didn't know a worst genre can have their own international e-sport competition and watch by millions with millions of dollar for the prize.

[oahda]

Because RTS and MOBA are the worst genres ever. Duh.

I didn't know a worst genre can have their own international e-sport competition and watch by millions with millions of dollar for the prize.

To think of all the good that could have been done with that kind of money instead.

[jiitype]

To think of all the good that could have been done if any form of entertainment wouldn't exist

[Leon Fook]

To think of all the money i can have if everyone stop buying games and give it to me 

[oahda]

To think of all the good that could have been done if any form of entertainment wouldn't exist

Yeah, but RTS/MOBA isn't entertaining.

[pelle]

Why should indie rts copy all the traditions of aas rts?

I have a rts in my list-of-future-projects (aka total vaporware) that is 2D and players have a limited pool of clicks that refill sloooooowly, plus random delays on all actions, so kids that try to win by clicking like mad like they normally do will be destroyed by a thinking slow opponent. I think I would enjoy playing.

[rj]

so you're...basically for the most part taking the rt out of the s,

[Alevice]

it should be noted that at high level play, apm is not the be all end all. you still need a minimun threshold, much like any game that needs skill, and part of the real time aspect is tht you need to think and act fast. if you want time to tinker with your actions go turn based.

[s0]

Why should indie rts copy all the traditions of aas rts?

I have a rts in my list-of-future-projects (aka total vaporware) that is 2D and players have a limited pool of clicks that refill sloooooowly, plus random delays on all actions, so kids that try to win by clicking like mad like they normally do will be destroyed by a thinking slow opponent. I think I would enjoy playing.

or you could just, u know, make the game turn based

[Gtoknu]

or you could just, u know, make the game turn based

Then it would not be a RTS anymore...

[Schoq]

...

[rj]

i eagerly await command and conquer: bored alert

[Dacke]

Real time is actually something quite different from turn based, even if speed isn't a factor. Getting continuous information and having the freedom to act at any time can be very interesting in a slow game. A few examples being Defcon, Eufloria and Firefight, which play out in real-time but where you are still able to take your time in making decisions (usually).

But limiting player actions doesn't really sound like a good solution, as new players won't be able to correct their mistakes.

[Alevice]

I have dabbled about the possibility of a slower paced rts before. The truth is that the dune formula doesnt lend well to interesting slow-paced designs. There have been genre deviations/reinventions as of late that peek more closely to wargames that could float such a boat. Either case still relies on some havily complex systems that are still quite a challenge for a small group of developers, specialñly for a flourishing multiplayer ecosystem.

[s_l_m]

I know a lot of people around where I am from who have started making an RTS, and exactly zero people who have finished one. I imagine there is something about the genre that leads to an endless rabbit hole of complexity and balancing from which few devs are committed enough to escape. I mean, most indie games started are never finished, but RTS games seem to be way worse.