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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperPlaytesting[Ouroborus]
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« on: March 30, 2012, 10:51:21 AM »

*=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-*
Title: '[Ouroborus]'
Genre: Role-playing Movie
Graphics type: II*D (Vanilla)
Version: v∄.V (Round I/Alpha)
Dev.environment: RPG Maker VX Ace
Distribution: FreeWare OpenSource.
Author' E-Mail: [email protected]
*=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-*

...Why ?...
There are things just need to be said. There are things, which shall not be expressed at any case. Somewhere between mentioned edges lays birthing place of that, what people recently found their might to recognize as art. I know original legends very well and quite aware of how many people would be offended from start just by EXE-file’s icon. Well, not everything could happen the way we want to. Resignation is the only road to happiness. Resignation for inability to be happy.

...How ?...
In fact, as a first acquaintance with the brand-new RPGMaker installation. Test-app, grown up to size of some tiny sketch with quasi-biblical characters. Complex, senseless and merciless - almost like the Book of Books itself. Yet why ask for mercy, if us have no desire to bestow it on beings around ? I just shown some developments from vastly different point of view. Judas and Cyanide: sworn enemies of everyone at their route in ocassional attempt to penetrate sacred body of Christ with something sharp enough. Or is it actually Christ ? History should put everything at its rightful places.

...What ?...
II of the three planned protagonists (Magdalene is little busy at scoped segment of time).
XIII of the twenty-one planned skills (III is enemy-only for now).
III/III sprites of your opponents.
IV/IV human (?) portraits.
IV/IV human (?) sprites.
All necessary music.
The title screen.

...Next ?...
Heavily dependant on what I would be able to extract from all your comments. Note that main story is ready for most key points of it - me just need to rework it more-or-less aesthetically and put right into the mouth of corresponding characters. New weapons, items, skills: all of such could be expected as well once I would finish new battle scenarios. And, just to be honest, it would be very surprised if someone tell me any way to prevail at the final one.

[Special gratitudes to:]
*Johan Edlund, Anders Iwers and Lars Sköld: since it would've be impossible without their hymn ("Nihil").
*Gary-FlaggedOnArrival, for combat BGM ("Gray Wrath").
*John Carpenter, for title screen' BGM ("Requiem to God").
*Ronny Jacobsson, for core leitmotif BGM ("I.Revelations").
*Brian Viveros, for Magdalene's most fitting portrait.
*Antonian, for moral and editorial supports alike.
*Jesus, just for all of his thankless job.


Download link: Ouroborus.rar (~95MB)

Screenshots:




« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 09:27:31 PM by Society » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2012, 10:11:00 AM »

...And yet it moves. I finally made up with inability to balance combat mechanics in self-given timeframe and braced myself to making it more differentiated instead. So, right now (with last patch, I mean) current system gone some massive overhaul and retuning for better integration of next skill-wave. You thought that Lot’s eye should go to Judas by default ? Be not that sure with current WIP additions:



(Yes, unique nternals for unique personaes. I just enjoy raping those dumb engine.)
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« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2012, 01:01:48 AM »

...Fixed downloading link. Sorry for inconvenience.
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« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2012, 02:09:51 AM »

...Fixed downloading link. Sorry for inconvenience.

I adore polite people~~

I'm playing this now =]

Hey btw what is your native language? noticed your profile comment...google says its hindi.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2012, 02:25:00 AM by Pandara_RA! » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2012, 05:45:58 AM »

Quote
Hey btw what is your native language?

Believe it or not, yet I'm actually Russian (who else would ever use Mail.RU ?). Not that such inconvinent birtplace changes slightest thing about my obsession with Latin, Hebrew and Hindi, though. ALSO, just to make situation a little more painful once again...

New version (v∄.IV) uploaded:
* Μαγδαληνή now resets maximal SP to zero.
* 'Fire and Dust' now affect user's Intra (-1).
* Merciless glitter now counts as spiritual attack (since it kinda is).
* C≡N solution's effect now causes slight SP degradation on Cyanide.
* Ardor aeternum now costs 19 SP and has 25% chance to cause 'Pyrophobia'.
* Ignis fatuum nos cost 9 SP and has chance 100% chance to cause 'Pyrophobia'.
* Memento flamma now costs 15 RT and regenerates 20% of SP per turn (also new text).
* Contamination now got 20% chance to evade spiritual attacks and 50% resist to perforation damge.
* Catharsis now got boost to healing, 20% chance to evade physical attacks and 50% resist to heat damge.

+ New state, 'Pyrophobia' - doubles heat damage for next few turns. Cyanide is completely immune to it.
+ Dried eyesphere now grants exclusive (and Intra-based) skill for Cyanide, 'Osculum euthanasia':



...ask me questions ?
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« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2012, 06:23:43 AM »

The world you made is pretty cool, and the ideas behind the dialog is also very interesting and different.

As a native English speaker, I am having trouble following some of the dialog, not because of the words used, but rather the way they are presented grammatically.

along the same line, understanding what each action translates to in game is all very hit and miss for example

"do as said"
"do as should"

what am I making the choice of? or dead-->gone the description of how the ability works tells me "we are humans. It's imminent for use to murder" Though that leave me confused about what am I actually making the choice for If the point of the game is to learn as you go, it kinda drops you in a sea of confusion, making it a tad less accessible to newer players.

It's a very interesting game, though currently I'm confused on what actions I'm making, where am I, and what am I doing. Other than that it's very interesting, and I WILL be sticking with it, and playing and updating feedback as I go.
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« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2012, 08:05:10 AM »

Well.. There are II intertwined problems at present moment:
1) Flaws in my English, which I never had practice to express much in literary style.
2) Differences between Biblical-inspired speech and words people actually communicate with.
First one could be more-or-less smoothed at sharpest edges with your help. Second just are, like obelisk they talked about.

Quote
"do as said"
"do as should"

It actually is the dilemma Cyanide mentioned just one step before. They should just leave and return, yet whole situation forcing you to fulfill Magdalene' instructions. You are their fate. Well, part of it.

Quote
what am I making the choice of? or dead-->gone the description of how the ability works tells me "we are humans. It's imminent for use to murder" Though that leave me confused about what am I actually making the choice for If the point of the game is to learn as you go, it kinda drops you in a sea of confusion, making it a tad less accessible to newer players.

Well... Let me explain how all those thing works. Without screwing it inwards RPG Maker, allow only II lines of description for objects. It was choice between atmosphere and playability. Guess what I sacrificed there for novel-styled game ?

Quote
It's a very interesting game, though currently I'm confused on what actions I'm making, where am I, and what am I doing. Other than that it's very interesting, and I WILL be sticking with it, and playing and updating feedback as I go.

You are free to ask some questions, which I may later include into in-game helping system... Or did someone actually believed that bibliophile-maniac like Cyan could lack any "Deicide for dummies" manual ? No, it just not yet present in any menus until I finally would be through with polishing whole mechanic.
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« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2012, 08:30:09 PM »

Quote
Well.. There are II intertwined problems at present moment:
1) Flaws in my English, which I never had practice to express much in literary style.
2) Differences between Biblical-inspired speech and words people actually communicate with.
First one could be more-or-less smoothed at sharpest edges with your help. Second just are, like obelisk they talked about.

I could help translate the project if you'd like, maybe you can keep both sides happy, with a biblical, yet "semi-modern" approach where the dialog is punctuated like modern times, but written with old timely words.



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« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2012, 10:47:27 PM »

Actually, any support would be appreciated much, since being one and only person behind those project detain me quite a lot. There are one more problem, however: RPG Maker uses monotype font for dialog window – no spacing or anything else to make texts aligned. Just art of word compilation. Just hardcore.
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« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2012, 02:07:56 PM »

Actually, any support would be appreciated much, since being one and only person behind those project detain me quite a lot. There are one more problem, however: RPG Maker uses monotype font for dialog window – no spacing or anything else to make texts aligned. Just art of word compilation. Just hardcore.

Oh, I'd be able to learn it no problem, or I could take the easy way and have you just give me all the dialog in game by copy-pasting it, I'll polish it and send it back for feedback from you to make sure it captures the same feel, then you publish it. =]

Been trying to learn through trial and error what things do in the game as of now, there has to be a solution to the issues I am having learning what skills do what, the first 2 enemies seem extremely hard to beat as it is insured the player will have no clue what they are doing right now because no spells/actions/items actually have mechanical descriptions hahaha.

It is extremely hard to learn by trial and error as some actions have a miss chance, or have no effects that mean anything to the player as the player was never explained what things are and what the stats actually mean yet =].

We'll fix this together so I can play test the game properly =P
« Last Edit: April 02, 2012, 02:29:39 PM by Pandara_RA! » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2012, 06:24:54 AM »

Quote
I could take the easy way and have you just give me all the dialog in game by copy-pasting it

Not that easy, actually: due to nature of used engine, most of text is easier to write directly at corresponding events, which later become auto-clasterized to script files in "Data" subfolder. I would try to explore some of available alternatives here, though... And why I'm still immersing into more sophisticated side of project, here goes screenshot of remastered 'Heaven’s smile' technique:


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« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2012, 10:02:00 AM »

Just a little preview for those, who have already begun doubting future of my project:



...While I'm not much livelier than my own dramatis personae, news still incoming...
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« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2012, 10:02:53 AM »

New version uploaded (v∄.V):
* Ignis fatuum nos costs 9 SP.
* Ardor aeternum now costs 6 SP.
* Sealed letter now increase maximum SP (+3).
* Dried eyesphere now decrease maximum SP (-3)
* 'Fire and Dust' now increase all SP outlay by 50%.
* Heaven's smile now recovers half of max VP and 10 SP for petitioner's side. Also new animation.
* C≡N solution's effect now causes severe spiritual evasion and deflection penalty for Cyanide (-30%).

+ New state, 'Indemnity', which causes victim to lose all SP and means to recover it for one turn.
+ Lightbane now grants exclusive (and SP-based) skill for Judas, 'Ouija Magnum':



...Ask me questions ?
« Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 10:20:17 AM by Society » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2012, 11:41:11 PM »

 Shocked

The complexity of how the skills work versus the knowledge of the player is to the point where the player must consult a guide on what exactly they need to do to even beat the first set of monsters.

Some skills work on one but not the other, and in 3-5 quick turns the enemies kill you...so it's frustrating as a player not knowing how anything works at all.

1. magic/items/attacks need information on how they mechanically work in the game. somewhere in the game
2. The first enemies are far to strong for someone how doesn't have information about any of the above, if they need to read the lore to understand the lore needs to be readable in game (it passes by too quickly)
3. the chance to dodge/miss attacks is extremely frustrating when you dont know how the abilities actually work or what they do.
4. Enemy text passses by far too quickly to understand what is happening.
5. Items reduce stats and I have no clue what each stat does or what each item actually does, so how can I choose to add or remove items if I have no clue what either does?

My questions.

Please tell me the exact mechanical effects of
Dead-->Gone
as well as every ability.

I have made 12 attempts to beat the first enemies, and still have no clue what anything does.

I have finally killed the first set of enemies, I think I found what kills them...you have to equip certain things at the start and such to get some abilities that help.
still no clue why what I did worked lol

then...the cut scene played and I went back to the menu?
« Last Edit: April 08, 2012, 11:49:28 PM by Pandara_RA! » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2012, 07:26:16 AM »

Quote
The complexity of how the skills work versus the knowledge of the player is to the point where the player must consult a guide on what exactly they need to do to even beat the first set of monsters.
Well... Not that I'm too indolent for writing detailed manuals, yet it's very tiresome to find and update corresponding entries on each change in mechanics. And with new equipment incoming, there are no way to avoid some further re-tweaking: there always should some reasons to both keep and toss away every piece of player's setup (except for clearly inane steps, like bringing Judas to battle without any weapon).

Quote
Some skills work on one but not the other, and in 3-5 quick turns the enemies kill you...so it's frustrating as a player not knowing how anything works at all.
Yes, it's exactly how I planned whole layout from start. In spite of established traditions, every enemy is coming to stop player's party, not just grant some more experience points. Timing is essential, every single faults – trounceable.

Quote
1. magic/items/attacks need information on how they mechanically work in the game. somewhere in the game
There would be exact formulas provided (never seen any reasons to keep such stuff in secret) once I come to more-or-less satisfying battling scheme. Right now, basically, everything is not much more than testing model. Ever seen early prototype with detailed manual ?

Quote
2. The first enemies are far to strong for someone how doesn't have information about any of the above, if they need to read the lore to understand the lore needs to be readable in game (it passes by too quickly)
Well... Cyan received fair warning about incoming dangers. Slightly less than threat, slightly more then advice. And yes, there are no planned ways to pass any battle without pre-developed tactics. Fortunately, you got unlimited number of retries storywise.

Quote
3. the chance to dodge/miss attacks is extremely frustrating when you dont know how the abilities actually work or what they do.
There, I suppose, goes following tip: your assailant is quite aware that people tend to:
1) ...Attack same-shaped target from left to right.
2) ...Focus firepower when possible.
Corresponding conditioning was made and, as overall feedback compilation seems, proven itself quite effective.

Quote
4. Enemy text passses by far too quickly to understand what is happening.
Agree. Problem is, 90% of battle engine was hardcoded like that by some smart people, who thought that logs, access to any status screen, result predictions and/or any opportunities to implement some of mentioned without messing poorly-commented source code just isn't necessary for average RPGs. So, there are little to no control over corresponding GUI for me.

Quote
Items reduce stats and I have no clue what each stat does or what each item actually does, so how can I choose to add or remove items if I have no clue what either does?
As I said a little ago: “ask me questions”. Right now it's second most productive way to obtain any information of interest, trailing right behind direct sources exploration.

Quote
Please tell me the exact mechanical effects of
Dead-->Gone
as well as every ability.
OK, quick and dirty:

*Dead->Gone: user.fludity * 2 - target.kismet of perforation damage. Single target, physical-based, 15% chance to apply 'Freedom' (OHKO) onto victim. Granted by 'Μαρια'.
*Ignis fatuum: user.extra * 1.5 - target.inertiae of heat damage. Mass target, spiritual-based, 100% chance to apply 'Pyrophobia' (2x Heat damage for next few turn) onto each victim, 25% chance to apply 'Inceneration' (Intra*1.5, Extra*1.5, -25% VP regeneration, +25% RT regeneration, immunity to cold damage) onto each victim. Granted by 'Fire and Dust', base SP cost = 6.
*The Wall: user.fludity * 2 - target.kismet / 2 of perforation damage. Single target (5 separate strikes), physical-based, 10% chance to apply 'Freedom' (OHKO) onto victim, 100% chance to apply 'Depleted' (disable usage of 'Dead->Gone' and 'The Wall' for few turns) onto user. Granted by 'Μαρια', base RT cost = 30.
*Ardor aeternum: user.extra * 3 - target.inertiae of heat damage. Single target, spiritual-based, 25% chance to apply 'Pyrophobia' (2x Heat damage for next few turn) onto victim, 100% chance to apply 'Inceneration' (Intra*1.5, Extra*1.5, -25% VP regeneration, +25% RT regeneration, immunity to cold damage) onto victim. Granted by 'Fire and Dust', base SP cost = 13.
*Merciless glitter: Single target, spiritual-based, 100% chance to apply 'Condemn' (Physical evasion - 100%, Kismet * 0, 'Freedom' applying rates * 1.5, physical-based damage received * 1.25) onto victim. Granted by 'Μαγδαληνή', base RT cost = 5. Consumes 1∞ on usage.
*Memento flamma: Self target, 100% to apply 'Inceneration' (Intra*1.5, Extra*1.5, -25% VP regeneration, +25% RT regeneration, immunity to cold damage) and 'Soothing memories' (-25% RT regeneration, +25% SP regeneration) onto user. Granted by 'Sealed letter', base RT cost = 15.
*Osculum euthanasia: user.intra - user.intra / 3 of dementation damage to SP. Single target, spiritual-based, applies 'Freedom' (OHKO) if victim's SP falls to 0 after usage. Granted by 'Dried eyesphere', exclusive for Cyanide, base RT cost = 20.
*Ouija magnum: (user.sp – target.kismet) * user.kismet / 3 of rupture damage. Single target, spiritual-based, applies 'Indemnity' (initial SP reset, SP restoration cancel, 3/4 of reset SP recovering after self-removal) onto user. Granted by 'Lightbane', base SP cost = 1.

...Like that ?

Quote
then...the cut scene played and I went back to the menu?
Seems so. Adding content goes easy as long as it fall into Enterbrian' standard jRPG template. And for my style of game designing, everything...well, not really complicated, just irksome and quite time-consuming. Second round should go smoother since I have some script-base now, but there are still too much to do for every littlest thing. Do you, for example, know that there are no way to make proper animation in RPG Maker without manually editing every frame ?

P.S. Sorry for loose writing, got barely few hours of sleep that night.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2012, 10:46:14 AM by Society » Logged

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« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2012, 08:53:33 PM »

Whoa thanks for the response, I was confused what were your planning on doing/what you could do to change all those things, and sounds like you have a pretty good idea =] so far.

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« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2012, 06:05:33 PM »

this is extremely hard to translate due to not understanding the message you are trying to send.

If I knew Russian you could just tell me though and I could translate.

for example.

(It's?) just another bad trip. Why am I unable to gather any nerve for leaving behind those (people?) Cyanide maddness (behind?)?

For an example, I need to know the reference to translate correctly =P
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