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[Thomas Finch]

Environment art isn't always about the individual parts but also about the composition. Personally, I think its a massive exaggeration to say its all the same thing repeated, but either way as a whole the environment ends up beautiful, at least in my opinion.

[mpolney]

feels patronizing to say this, but a lot of you are fucking it up: level design =/= environment art. Level design is a game design task, and has to do with the layout, scripting, enemy placement, etc. Environment art is your broody tombstones or same fucking brown cobblestone x100. Also not appreciating bloodborne's goofy aesthetic but appreciating dark souls' equally embarrassing one is personal taste, and arbitrary.

Neither game's aesthetic is embarrassing. Bloodborne's is just overwhelmingly repetitive. Dark Souls may be  "cobblestone x100" but Demon's Souls and Dark Souls 2 are not. Dark Souls 3 is beautiful and where it's not, it's reminiscent of Bloodborne. No amount of "level design" will save you if the whole thing is boring to look at. There's nothing arbitrary about it.

[Tumetsu]

Shit. Onion knight died in Yhorm because I had no idea how to unleash the special attack of the storm ruler I guess that was that quest line. I think I have failed now every one of them so far :s Bummed. From and their trick bosses  

EDIT: Checked wikis. Apparently I didn't lose anything valuable except a final toast

EDIT2: Beat the boss on solo. Quite fun fight even though it is repetitive.

[Thomas Finch]

Shit. Onion knight died in Yhorm because I had no idea how to unleash the special attack of the storm ruler I guess that was that quest line. I think I have failed now every one of them so far :s Bummed. From and their trick bosses  

EDIT: Checked wikis. Apparently I didn't lose anything valuable except a final toast

EDIT2: Beat the boss on solo. Quite fun fight even though it is repetitive.

Don't feel bad. I played through the game super slowly checking back at locations constantly and talking to everyone a ton. I still somehow failed nearly every quest-line. Seigward didn't even show up at the well for me.

[Dragonmaw]

still not a big fan of how enemies randomly extend their attack patterns, which was something bborne did too. while it's exploitable, it's way less so than 1/2. i really like how predictable enemies are in dark souls, because it's less about timing your attacks perfectly in-between a constant enemy assault and more about learning how to trick enemy AI into doing things.

there are a few bosses and enemies in 3 that have fairly predictable and enjoyable patterns, though. the big oil dragon things, the curse-rotted greatwood, and the dancer all have fun patterns that are predictable and easy to manipulate.

i guess i just like action games that are about figuring out "the puzzle" rather than waiting for my turn to attack, which is how enemies feel in 3 sometimes.

i still super like dark souls 3 though. it's not as good as the first game, but the world feels more connected than 2 and more diverse than bloodborne, which i dig. art direction is really tepid on colors tho, everything is grey, brown, black, or red. would it really have been such a bad thing to include some color?

[quantumpotato]

still not a big fan of how enemies randomly extend their attack patterns, which was something bborne did too. while it's exploitable, it's way less so than 1/2. i really like how predictable enemies are in dark souls, because it's less about timing your attacks perfectly in-between a constant enemy assault and more about learning how to trick enemy AI into doing things.

Interesting feedback.

Do all enemies do this? I thought they all just had a few attack patterns and you have to attack after their last hit, which if it's not a huge hit is usually 3 or so

[HöllenKobold]

here's a question
why are the holy arrows in demons souls called toad-eye arrows in the asian ver

where did toad-eyes come from

are toad eyes holy

are

[Thomas Finch]

there are a few bosses and enemies in 3 that have fairly predictable and enjoyable patterns, though. the big oil dragon things, the curse-rotted greatwood, and the dancer all have fun patterns that are predictable and easy to manipulate.

I only really felt this in one boss battle. Fucking Nameless King. He just won't let you fucking attack and no matter how well you memorize him, he'll still fuck you up cause you're out of stamina before he stops. Other than him, I was always able to memorize an enemy's or boss' moves and plan for them or exploit them.

i still super like dark souls 3 though. it's not as good as the first game, but the world feels more connected than 2 and more diverse than bloodborne, which i dig. art direction is really tepid on colors tho, everything is grey, brown, black, or red. would it really have been such a bad thing to include some color?

I felt like that was the art of Bloodborne. Pretty much dark blue and red. Really rarely some white or grey in there. In Dark Souls 3 though, there's grey, black, brown, red, green (many swamp and forest areas), blue (mostly Irithyll areas), and yellow (mostly Archdragon Peak).

I suppose they could have used a little more color, but it was more color than I expected. Dark Souls 1 only really had yellow, green, grey, black and a little blue.

[Dragonmaw]

Dark Souls 1 was more willing to have saturated colors, though.

[Glyph]

I only really felt this in one boss battle. Fucking Nameless King. He just won't let you fucking attack and no matter how well you memorize him, he'll still fuck you up cause you're out of stamina before he stops. Other than him, I was always able to memorize an enemy's or boss' moves and plan for them or exploit them.

I actually thought his boss fight was superb, and this is coming from a rough experience with the guy: I had his second form to a sliver on my fourth try (so low that I thought he was dead so I stopped attacking) and then it took twenty more tries to actually kill him afterward. But in those twenty tries I figured out that his pattern is actually really predictable and I beat both forms with only one chug throughout afterwards. My only advice is to not give the guy too much respect, since after a two-hit combo or big attack he usually just stands and lets you get an r1 in. When he buffs his weapon you can also get incredible damage in, which can lead to a stagger-and-riposte for even more.

Gundyr 2.0 was also very good. I think that took me 10-20 tries to figure out his pattern. At least for these two bosses, the attacks didn't feel like a constant stream, but just very fast and brutal. You just gotta learn when they're going to use a roll-punish attack, and there is some criteria before one is used that you can learn to look out for.

That said, I never figured out Pontiff's pattern after many many tries. My strategy quickly became 'land two parries and then hack away on the comparatively easy second form'. I feel like that boss probably most embodies CA/DJ's complaints about bosses from earlier in this thread, and I have to agree for him (but not in the general case).

[joseph ¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

NLK just has few safely punishable attacks (depending on your weapon), you can definitely wait and bait several of his attacks out.

____iff's attacks are pretty normal dark souls boss attacks, all punishable, but you have to understand when #2 is gonna time everything in order to do it. its a good boss I think if you get it!

[Thomas Finch]

Dark Souls 1 was more willing to have saturated colors, though.

True. I think that can come down to personal taste though. I prefer things slightly less saturated. Otherwise they look more cartoonish.

I actually thought his boss fight was superb, and this is coming from a rough experience with the guy: I had his second form to a sliver on my fourth try (so low that I thought he was dead so I stopped attacking) and then it took twenty more tries to actually kill him afterward. But in those twenty tries I figured out that his pattern is actually really predictable and I beat both forms with only one chug throughout afterwards. My only advice is to not give the guy too much respect, since after a two-hit combo or big attack he usually just stands and lets you get an r1 in. When he buffs his weapon you can also get incredible damage in, which can lead to a stagger-and-riposte for even more.

We had very different experiences with him. For me, every try it was the same thing, he'd swipe at me a few times which I roll through, then he'd do a super powerful attack that's hard to dodge, throwing me backwards, then he'd charge at me to stab me with his spear, I'd barely roll out of the way, then attack him once before he suddenly attacks me again. I'm out of stamina so I can't roll and he kills me. I beaten him after 7-8 tries, but it was by far the most frustrating boss I've faced in the Soulsborne games.

Gundyr 2.0 was also very good. I think that took me 10-20 tries to figure out his pattern. At least for these two bosses, the attacks didn't feel like a constant stream, but just very fast and brutal. You just gotta learn when they're going to use a roll-punish attack, and there is some criteria before one is used that you can learn to look out for.

Funny enough I had the opposite experience here too. Beat him on my first try. I just rolled through 2-3 attacks (sometimes just walking underneath his swing even, R1'd a couple times, then rolled away to regain my stamina. Rinse, repeat.

That said, I never figured out Pontiff's pattern after many many tries. My strategy quickly became 'land two parries and then hack away on the comparatively easy second form'. I feel like that boss probably most embodies CA/DJ's complaints about bosses from earlier in this thread, and I have to agree for him (but not in the general case).

He's actually one of my favorite bosses because I love that his second form predicts his movements. I knew his pattern pretty well and he usually waits a decent amount of time in between combos. It helps that I co-oped to help other players beat him probably 30 times.

[JWK5]

Shit. Onion knight died in Yhorm because I had no idea how to unleash the special attack of the storm ruler I guess that was that quest line. I think I have failed now every one of them so far :s Bummed. From and their trick bosses  

EDIT: Checked wikis. Apparently I didn't lose anything valuable except a final toast

EDIT2: Beat the boss on solo. Quite fun fight even though it is repetitive.

Don't feel bad. I played through the game super slowly checking back at locations constantly and talking to everyone a ton. I still somehow failed nearly every quest-line. Seigward didn't even show up at the well for me.

Where people are saying they are near the end of the game at 40 hours or so I am at Farron Keep at 40 hours or so. I do a lot of multiplayer, I take my time and comb every inch of the areas looking for interesting things, I farm up upgrade material so I can try out all the different weapons, etc.

It doesn't matter how slowly you truck along, it matters what you get out of the experience. You're probably going to miss stuff but you can always get it on your next run through. If you go through the game like a wide-eyed child rather than just soaking up the experience fretting over what you may have missed you'll find that you are going to be more excited than disappointed.

[DJFloppyFish]

I beat da game! Some thoughts:


In my opinion the bosses get better after eldritch, worm, and the funky bunch. Nameless King is a great boss with some unfortunate camera problems in phase 1. The twin prince fight might be my favorite in the whole game, and it really speaks to what makes a miyazaki souls game so good (the lore for them is interesting and their relationship and personalities are reflected in how they fight). It copied a similar boss mechanic of one boss reviving another from throne watcher & defender but its more impactful here. The soul of cinder fight was a kind of touching farewell finale for the whole series, starting with the realization that the final boss is in essence the player character and the very spirit of these games, and ending with a return to gwyn's theme and fighting style. Awesome.

After fighting the later game bosses, I think my opinion on the bosses overall has kind of changed. The combo switch ups are actually pretty important for keeping the fights repeatable and exciting. It keeps things from being cut and dry memorization and I think that's great. At first I thought the change ups weren't as noticeable as fume knight or any other older souls boss, but I started getting used to them after enough time. In general, I think it's good that I feel like theres room for improvement after only 40 hours of play time. It'd be kinda messed up for a souls game otherwise.

The new lore in this game is great and very compelling (lothric & the boreal valley are rad) but I'm left feeling uncertain about a lot of the callbacks. I still have no idea how Andre is even here. Granted, I haven't completed a single NPC quest and I still don't understand much, but that's my two cents after a first playthrough nonetheless. Can't wait to start hearing some interpretations of the lore. Like what's up with the consumed king??

How cool was it that we fought Gwyn's firstborn and that it's implied that ornstein & others came to archdragon peak in search of him?

Overall, a fantastic conclusion. I agree that this is a superb place to stop. Can't wait to start making new builds, everything feels so smartly revamped in this game.

[Thomas Finch]

Where people are saying they are near the end of the game at 40 hours or so I am at Farron Keep at 40 hours or so. I do a lot of multiplayer, I take my time and comb every inch of the areas looking for interesting things, I farm up upgrade material so I can try out all the different weapons, etc.

It doesn't matter how slowly you truck along, it matters what you get out of the experience. You're probably going to miss stuff but you can always get it on your next run through. If you go through the game like a wide-eyed child rather than just soaking up the experience fretting over what you may have missed you'll find that you are going to be more excited than disappointed.

Yeah, I went through very slowly, combing every inch and co-oping a good bit as well. I never had to try areas many times though so I got through things a bit faster even though. I also never farmed for any items and probably didn't do multiplayer nearly as much as you. I definitely missed a lot despite my careful combing, but I wasn't stressed about it. I'm on my second playthrough now to do all the questlines and get all the achievements.

I beat da game! Some thoughts:

Andre: It's the same Andre. If you bring him the Giant's Coal, he talks about being friends with the giant and being sad that he passed away. Current theories are that Andre is a deity of smithing.

Oceiros: The consumed king wanted to become immortal so he looked at Seath and Big Hat Logan's research about it. Over time he became more and more insane, just like Big Hat Logan did. Eventually he decided to follow the path of the dragon and became dragon like but blind. His son, whom he loved dearly, left him for unknown reasons. The consumed king grew even more insane and delusional. During the battle, he even mimics his son's baby cries.

Nameless King: I love that we know who Gwyn's firstborn even is now. I also read some item descriptions that implied Solaire was one of the Nameless King's Knights.

[s0]

im kinda lagging behind everyone else (except jwk5 it seems ). im 40hrs in and only at the dancer.

thoughtz on bosses i've fought so far:

i like that there are (seemingly?) fewer bosses in this game and the actual levels are bigger and more challenging. the series got increasingly bossfight-centric as it progressed and this is a good corrective. also the boss design actually reminds me a lot of demon's souls with its focus on unique gimmicks and the bosses as characters. i know i've said previously that i would like Fromsoft to return to that style, but i'm not sure if im happy with how it was handled in dark souls 3. in demon's souls, most bosses were fairly easy once you figured out their gimmick (so they were kinda like more freeform zelda bosses in that sense). in dks3 theyre so hard that they often act as "showstoppers" (i don't really like that in games, but that's another story), but due to their gimmicky nature they're just not as good as an actual challenge as the traditional duel-based bosses in bloodborne.

btw aldrich is actually one of the better bosses i think. the fight seems very chaotic at first but becomes more and more manageable the more you try. he is also fast to take down once you figure him out. i died a bunch of times, but in the end i felt i won because i had mastered the boss. with the abyss watchers i felt like my win was 50% luck.

also this probably sounds cheesy, but for me revisiting anor londo and seeing what had happened to gwyndolin, the giant and the darkmoon knightess was actually an emotional moment. kinda like returning to your childhood home and seeing it in disrepair or sth. some ppl probably think it's "pandering", but i think it's very fitting for a series finale to do something like that. the transition from the irityhll part of the level to anor londo is really well done too, with some nice foreshadowing with the "royal mansion" part.

[Tumetsu]

Ok. What the hell happened to the difficulty after dancer?  I'm getting my ass handed to me in light speed by these lothric knights. Tried to learn parrying for them but no use because of healer henchmen :s

So far the areas have been ok difficulty but here pretty much every enemy is super powerful and durable 

[quantumpotato]

I paid attention and noticed the randomly extending attack patterns. That is kind of frustrating.. different challenge I feel like you just have to watch more carefully for the animation and maybe you only get 1 attack.

I cheesed the Fire Demon by letting the Onion fight him -- I literally got the last stab. Is there no way to get the Giant to spear him? After the fight I googled and read that [spoilers]alluring skull will distract the fire demon & "Rapport" taunt will make peace with him. Hinted at by the Onion talking about 'just talking to him'[/spoilers]

The levels feel mostly linear, more so than I've heard DS1 is. I'm impressed that I found 2 mini-bosses before the Cursed Tree (Underground Ice Soldier) & the Fire Demon. Cool to see off the beaten path lead to challenges.

[s0]

Ok. What the hell happened to the difficulty after dancer?  I'm getting my ass handed to me in light speed by these lothric knights. Tried to learn parrying for them but no use because of healer henchmen :s

So far the areas have been ok difficulty but here pretty much every enemy is super powerful and durable 

do you have any range? those clerics can be taken out safely from a distance before the knights aggro on you (their aggro radius is fairly small). they also have next to no health.

the knights themselves can be easily backstabbed. also PROTIP: after you backstab them, prepare a charge attack as theyre standing up. that should stagger them and you can finish them off with a combo.

[Tumetsu]

I'm playing quality build. Feels like my Claymore +7 does really poor damage to most enemies in later areas. Each enemy taking at least 5 shots or more which is bad considering how slow great swords are. Not sure why but it really feels that my damage output is really low after dancer. Maybe the end game enemies in this game are much more beefier than in previous games.

Got through the garden mostly by stealth. I tried sniping healers but usually they could cast their miracle before I could get enough shots from my long bow. I might have to upgrade my bow though since it is only +4 atm. However, I'd like to save my chunks :s