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[Exorph]

Maybe this isn't the right place for this. Doesn't really feel like business, but it is job related so...

I have spent 2 years at a game programmer school, and now 30 weeks as an intern at a prominent indie studio. When I started school, I wanted to work with AAA titles, hoping to change them from within. I really wanted to do design, but programming seemed like an easier way into the industry. I still had those same feelings when looking for an internship, mostly focusing on the biggest studios I could find.

My internship has completely changed my outlook on making games however. The small team size and creative freedom here is just something I never want to be without again.
Unfortunately, they are unable to hire me after the internship ends. And I'm having a hard time finding any places like it that are hiring people.

And I've just got that desire to do something artistic and experimental instead of the kind of stuff done at AAA studios.

So now I have to figure out what to do next.
The way I see it, my options are:

* Find a job, any job in the industry. Work there a couple of years until I have enough experience to impress the cool indie studios, or enough contacts to start my own studio, or enough money to live off while making something of own.

* Find a job at a place that I really want to work at, and don't settle for anything less. This would also include "nice" companies. The kind of company that might not be indie, but still creates games bursting with love.

* Enroll to a game design school. As I said, I want to be a designer, so it makes sense. But I'm 25 in a few days, and I'm really growing tired of being a student.

* Just do what I love to do. Try to find a couple of people to join me and make awesome games. This is where I want to get in the long run. I'm just not sure if I'm ready.

Not asking you to make the decision for me. I just need some outside input.

[nico]

Well, you're asking a forum full of indie devs, so the recommendations you'll get here will probably be pretty predictable . With that said, let's do a breakdown of your alternatives:

* Find a job, any job in the industry. Work there a couple of years until I have enough experience to impress the cool indie studios, or enough contacts to start my own studio, or enough money to live off while making something of own.

This is the "safe" option, staying in your comfort zone and delaying the decision for later. Problem is, the "safe" option often isn't.

How do you know this will actually impress anybody, as opposed to making epic stuff on your own? How long would you have to work to build up "enough" starting capital? What is "enough"? Will settling for a few years really bring you any closer to your goal? Or will it just slowly eat away at your soul? Will you learn and grow from this job, or will you just stagnate? And once you've grown to rely on the paycheck, do you really think the decision will be easier down the road, or will you just have gotten more to lose? I've got some personal experience with this one, it wasn't in the game industry but still...

* Find a job at a place that I really want to work at, and don't settle for anything less. This would also include "nice" companies. The kind of company that might not be indie, but still creates games bursting with love.

I don't think this is a bad option per se, but if you're not careful it can easily degrade to the same as option 1. If you 'select' this as your option, you're still going to be at the mercy of what you can find. And you'd be amazed at how fast you'll "settle" once the money runs out and you don't have any other alternatives lined up.

If you want to keep high standards for yourself, you'd better know exactly what you are looking for, and have something else to do while you're looking. Or else you're eventually gonna end up taking whatever you find.

* Enroll to a game design school. As I said, I want to be a designer, so it makes sense. But I'm 25 in a few days, and I'm really growing tired of being a student.

I think you've done a nice job of ruling this one out yourself. Trust your instinct, this is just more life stalling. Besides you will learn a lot faster by doing than you will through more schooling. I think you'll find surprisingly few top successful indie devs who learned their craft in school.

* Just do what I love to do. Try to find a couple of people to join me and make awesome games. This is where I want to get in the long run. I'm just not sure if I'm ready.

You never will be. And you will probably fail, several times over. So you better get started . The nice thing about this option is that it doesn't preclude going for option 2 later. In fact it's probably the best thing you can put on your resume. I've had several job offers where my time spent working on various failed ventures and open source projects were the thing that interested the hiring reps the most.

This isn't the "easy" option, but then again "easy" won't get you where you want to be. And it won't be any easier in five-ten years when you've got wife, kids and a morgage to support.

Just my $0.02

[Schwiggy]

Nico's right, your answer depends on who you ask just as much as what you ask.

I'll add a cent too though. So now you're up to $0.03

Design school's advantages would be to give you materials, peers, a learning environment, and mentors to guide you. So replace it with those elements directly! You can find plenty of peers and mentors in places like here. A learning environment is every game you make. So make em'. And for materials I suggest reading Jesse Schell's The Art of Game Design as soon as or before you start a game. It's a great book that's something like a table of elements for game design.

[Falmil]

For the love of god, do not go to game design school. If you've already gone to school for something you can apply to games (programming/art), that should be enough. Most schools with "game design" programs are complete garbage anyway.

If you really can't find a small studio/group willing to take you, then you should probably just work on your portfolio and skills, doing game development on your own.

Not sure what to tell you about making a living in the meantime, though.

[Exorph]

Naturally, I'm asking here because I know that I want to be an indie dev in the end. So I can't really trust people who don't have that ambition.

That being said...

I am certainly worried about getting stuck at a boring uncreative company. I'm also worried about coming to a super sweet place that makes the kind of games I love, only to get stuck as the programmer who doesn't have any creative input.

But I can't imagine there's no value in working at a "safe" place. Everyone at my studio has a history of working on AAA titles, and they're all bloody amazing at what they do. Sure, they all seem to have been fed up by it in the end, but as a learning experience?
If I was to start my own studio now, my only contacts are people from my school. Some of them are far better programmers than me, sure, but hardly mentor material.
I could learn from people on the internet, sure, but I don't think that's the same thing.

I'm not sure how it makes sense to learn more by doing than by schooling, either. I would hopefully be making games AT school, together with real-life people I can brainstorm with, while having teachers present. I would also be getting my student loan, making it possible for me to focus on getting better without having to worry about my economy.
If anything, education seems like a very safe bet, but still I have that nagging feeling... I was really looking forward to having some sort of income...

As for just starting my own studio... I don't think I have the contacts needed. I'm asocial enough as it is and I'm really worried about being a one-man studio, as I'd probably never talk to a person in real life again...
I'm also absolutely terrified of being forced to mass-produce crap iPhone-apps with no personality just to make ends meet.

Edit: And the design schools I'm looking at have pretty good reputations. They certainly don't lead to jobs for everyone (since there aren't enough design jobs to take them all in), but my goal is just to learn.

[Falmil]

I'm not sure how it makes sense to learn more by doing than by schooling, either. I would hopefully be making games AT school, together with real-life people I can brainstorm with, while having teachers present. I would also be getting my student loan, making it possible for me to focus on getting better without having to worry about my economy.
If anything, education seems like a very safe bet, but still I have that nagging feeling... I was really looking forward to having some sort of income...

Edit: And the design schools I'm looking at have pretty good reputations. They certainly don't lead to jobs for everyone (since there aren't enough design jobs to take them all in), but my goal is just to learn.

I mean, if you can find a great school, I suppose. But if you already have a degree in programming or art, there is really no reason for it. If you're going to school, then you're just taking classes. And classes on game design are pretty soft compared to programming or art courses. To be worth it, you would probably need to be cranking out a game or a significant part of one every semester instead of just piecemeal school assignments.

I still think you would be better off picking up a game design book or two, and doing "game design" yourself. Those jobs are usually filled by A) people that have programming or art skills and B) people that have a few games under their belt.

If you don't mind me asking, what schools were you looking into?

[Exorph]

If you don't mind me asking, what schools were you looking into?

Two Swedish universities. If you're not from here you probably haven't heard of them. Though one of them recently had some graduates produce Bloodline Champions which seems to have done fairly well.

I hear what you're saying, but I'm not entirely convinced. Of course, I'm not here to be convinced, just to get a nudge in the right direction. And so far I've certainly been nudged.

[Falmil]

I guess as long as you know the game design program will lead to something big to put in your portfolio that you wouldn't have been able to do on your own.

[ryansumo]

I'm fiscally conservative so I'd say let your bank account decide for you.  If you don't have enough money to last you a few months, go for the safe option (1), save a lot of money (plus bitterness).  Once you're fed up, resign and hole up in a studio and crank out the game of your dreams.

[nico]

Or go for a safe job and at least make some small freeware games in your free time. Well, whatever you choose, I wish you luck, and remember that no choice is ever permanent.

[Exorph]

I guess, though it's been a bit of a depressing realization that there's just not enough time to work, make games and have a life at the same time. Luckily I don't have much of a life these days anyway. <_<

[bateleur]

One option you should consider is looking for a job that pays sufficiently well to accumulate some savings. Going full-time indie is made considerably easier by having savings you can live off while you develop your first game.

[Fallsburg]

It depends on what you want. If you want to make your own games, then don't work in the industry.  Because you won't be making your own games for a long time (typically when your company fails and you decide to make it on your own).  If you want to work in the industry, then go for it.  But if you want to make your own games then you should get a steady, safe, 9-5 job that doesn't have "crunches" that pays well.  Work on your games in your free time (mornings, evenings, weekends) and save until you have enough stored away that you can go full time for yourself.

[eyeliner]

Make your own studio?

If you are in a crossroad and can try it out, go at it for a while see how it pays out. My only regret is not getting to this party sooner, I'd have tried to do things by myself while I could (without responsibilities and amplitude to fail).

You would have to give it your all, though.

[JasonPickering]

from my experience I went from mediocre studio making movie games, to AAA. after I was laid off from the AAA company after the project was cancelled I spent a lot of time applying for studios. On a whim I contacted a smallish Iphone company and started doing freelance animation for them. I now have moved into the studio and work fulltime doing animation, but also design stuff. in my free-time I work on my own games also.

One thing I know is with the current state of the internet most of the people we work with are not even in the same hemisphere. Have you contacted any smaller companies that do iphone or android stuff. they usually have smaller teams, but always look for some outside help. you might be able to work for one of them doing supplemental coding and then do your own stuff on the side. This of course depends on what type of programmer you are and what you know. the downside usually is though money is not a guarantee. usually you will be working for a percentage of the revenue coming in, so this might not be an option. mobile games are also excellent resumes when applying to other companies, usually the games are inexpensive so the companies can look at them, and if you are meeting in person you can hand your phone over to them and let them give it a whirl.

[Soulliard]

I'm not sure how it makes sense to learn more by doing than by schooling, either. I would hopefully be making games AT school, together with real-life people I can brainstorm with, while having teachers present. I would also be getting my student loan, making it possible for me to focus on getting better without having to worry about my economy.
If anything, education seems like a very safe bet, but still I have that nagging feeling... I was really looking forward to having some sort of income...

I would advise against this route. I go to a school with a good game design program, and I've taken a few of their classes. I've made several games for these classes, and I wouldn't consider releasing any of them. When you make games for classes, you have tight deadlines, and arbitrary restrictions (such as what language or platform to use). You and your teammates will make a game that matches the professor's rubric, not a game that's necessarily any good.

You can certainly learn something about game design by working this way, but you already have a degree and experience working at a game company. You already know just about everything they would teach you. If you start your own indie studio, you'll probably learn more, and you can save money on tuition.

[Exorph]

Well, I've sent an application to a place some friends from school works at. If anything it should be a nice work environment, with less commuting than to and from my internship. Less commuting = more time for side-projects!
If the interview works out I'll probably give it a go at least, and see if that's enough, or if I need to do my own thing full-time to feel good about myself.

When you make games for classes, you have tight deadlines, and arbitrary restrictions (such as what language or platform to use).

[...]

You already know just about everything they would teach you. If you start your own indie studio, you'll probably learn more, and you can save money on tuition.

The first part sounds like a game jam to me. 

I'm not sure I know everything though. My school was very AAA-focused and didn't have a designer course, so basically we were told to just copy stuff from other games. I have some basic intuition for what works and what doesn't in game design, but I know pretty much zero theory. I'm unable to formulate my ideas properly, and often come up with crazy solutions to gameplay problems that just make everything worse. Naturally, I need to learn some of this by doing it, but just like with other art forms, I believe there's a value in being schooled WHILE doing.

As for tuition, there is none.

[Soulliard]

Lucky Europeans, with your affordable education and health care. 

To be honest, a lot of game design is basically intuition. It's more art than science, so it can't be easily taught. Even the best professor can't make a good designer out of someone without an intuitive grasp of the subject. Still, there are some very good game design books available. Unfortunately, I don't have the names of any of them on me right now...

[Exorph]

Affordable? We get free money for being students!

It may be more art than science, but it's not like art can't be "taught" either...
I don't expect to become a good designer by having a teacher tell me how to make games, I'm hoping a good education will force me to look at game design from new angles.

But yeah.. I don't know, right now none of the options available seem reasonable.

[tametick]

* Just do what I love to do. Try to find a couple of people to join me and make awesome games. This is where I want to get in the long run. I'm just not sure if I'm ready.

You never will be. And you will probably fail, several times over. So you better get started .