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[pelle]

What about games that need to self-update it's binaries frequently?

There are commercial applications that through their installer (in say Ubuntu) installs their own apt configuration to make sure the system automatically update the application just like any other package is expected to do.

[pelle]

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to support Linux in the future, but will it be worth the effort and my time? The jury's still out on that.

As someone who as used Linux almost exclusively since 1996, I say if it is too much work to support Linux, don't. But please release binaries for it anyway. That is how I have played many games in Linux anyway. IIRC all the iD games did that. You had to somehow extract the data files yourself from the Windows version, then replace whatever.exe with the Linux binary.

Of course, ideally, some sort of installer would always be included, or at least an Ubuntu DEB, but I can see how that is too much work for a small company, and I think unsupported Linux support is OK given the current situation.

But I don't get that thing about Linux users not buying games. Where did that come from? I never heard anyone say that (or see any numbers suggest that)? To me, given that 99 % of what I run is free and open source anyway, I feel like I have money to spare to actually buy games, unlike almost everyone I know that play pirated Windows games. Have been buying the Linux games I wanted to play since back in Loki days.

However I am a lot less desperate for Linux games now than only a few years ago. When the first HiB came out I did not hesitate to send them a bundle of $$$ because OMG LINUX SUPPORT, but now I have already bought more Linux games (mostly through the bundles) than I have had the time to play. The unexpectedly good sales for Linux versions seen a few years ago might be difficult to match now. I still think the Linux market is a lot less saturated than Windows, but maybe not so much better (in sales per user) than OSX.

[Oddball]

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to support Linux in the future, but will it be worth the effort and my time? The jury's still out on that.

As someone who as used Linux almost exclusively since 1996, I say if it is too much work to support Linux, don't. But please release binaries for it anyway. That is how I have played many games in Linux anyway.

That would be my thinking too. If I don't support Linux in with future games I'd probably still release a Linux version for free, but totally unsupported.

[Klaim]

So the only way to make a game work like minecraft on linux is to have the full game in the user's home directory and let it manage it's own files, right?

[Dacke]

@pelle: I don't agree with you. In the olden times, most Linux users were usually extreme powerusers. Today we have millions of casual users as well, thanks to Ubuntu. I think that a piece of better advice is to find a nice and helpful Linux user that can help you support Linux for free-ish. Also, as I mentioned before, Canonical will package the game for you for free: http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/

@Klaim
No, there are other possible solutions. You can update the game through official update system, without going via the official channels. In Ubuntu you can set up a Personal Package Archive, that people can subscribe to. If you are using auto-updates you probably already have a server, so you can set up your own repository on that server.

It works like this:
1. You set up your server with the game on it
2. People add your server to their "Other repositories"
3. Your game becomes available for download in their software center or package manger
4. All updates you make to your game become instantly available in people's system update manager

(5. I'm not sure if you can force the update as soon as people come online in the game, though)

[Chris Koźmik]

Oddball, is this your only game you ever released on Linux?

I think that maybe, just maybe, your low Linux sales could be caused by the game type. Linux players are accustomed to text and text interface (command line thing you use a lot in Linux). Windows and Mac players are purely served GUI based software. So, on Linux, you were competing with ADOM, Nethack, Angband, etc. Your game could have been seen as inferior there. But on Windows/Mac games with ADOM like interface are totally hardcore niche, there your game was competing only With Diablo and Diablo like games. From the perspective of a user that play text games yours was inferior and the most primitive one, just with better graphics. From a perspective of a user that do not play text games yours was the most complex and advanced that was ever available, just with worse graphics...

It would be great if other people that released multiplatform games posted their percentage breakthough for comparison...

[Dacke]

find a nice and helpful Linux user that can help you support Linux for free-ish.

An even better option: give a profit percentage from the Linux sales to that someone. That would be a win-win situation for everyone involved. I think that Linux usage may explode relatively soon though, thanks to Steam and Windows 8, so just don't give away too large a percentage


@Archibald: His Linux sales weren't low, they were in proportion to the current Linux userbase. The problem was that Linux users weren't as over-represented as was hoped.

Also: Linux users don't need to use terminals these days, that was only true in the old hacky days before Ubuntu/Mint/Android. Both my girlfriend and father use Linux as their only/primary OS without ever touching the terminal. I only use the terminal because I'm a programmer, and I used to use the terminal in Windows as well.

[PompiPompi]

I don't think it's right to call Android Linux, it might have the same roots, but it is developed by Google and I don't think it is Linux any longer.
Correct me if I am wrong though...

[Squid Party]

I always assumed the didnt do it because the markets not big enough and they wouldnt be much of a point

[Dacke]

@PompiPompi: Both Android and "Linux" (Debian/Gentoo/Ubuntu/etc.) are based on the Linux kernel. This makes them Linux systems. The correct name for systems that are usually called "Linux" in daily speech (Debian/Gentoo/Ubuntu/etc.) is actually "GNU/Linux".

So it depends: do you use the word with it's actual meaning or as a short-hand for GNU/Linux? In this thread we use it as a shorthand for GNU/Linux, so me throwing in Android there was sort of a stupid under-stated joke  

[PompiPompi]

Yea, though linux kernel is based on some type of unix kernel, I am really not familiar with all of this. Linux was not written from scratch as well, as far as I know...

[Dacke]

A short Unix, GNU and Linux history:

1969: Unix is created at Bell Labs for use on supercomputers.

1983: Richard Stallman gets pissed off at Unix because he isn't allowed to fix it's bugs. He creates the Unix-like operating system GNU ("GNU's Not Unix!"), which is written from scratch but is based on standards established by Unix.

1991: Linus Torvalds writes his own kernel from scratch, because GNU's own kernel isn't written yet. The Linux kernel ends up becoming the standard kernel used with GNU.

GNU can be used with different kernels, like GNU Hurd. Linux can be used with other systems, like Android.

[Chris Koźmik]

In this topic I meant Linux as a platform on desktop computers which consist of a certain userbase that buy games, not as a technology. Therefore Android can't count, it is a separate platform and userbase (and due to screen size Windows games usually can't be ported to mobile anyway).

[PompiPompi]

Dacke, he took the design details from Minix though. So it's not that he just implemented standards, so I wouldn't consider it from scratch.

[Dacke]

@Archibald: My entire post was about GNU/Linux, except for that (stupid) detail. As I already said, I am sorry, it was a stupid joke. Please read my post again

@PompiPompi: Both GNU and Linux were written from scratch, specifically to replace non-free programs (Unix and Minix). They had to be written from scratch, because nothing of the original code could be used due to the non-free licenses.

[PompiPompi]

The code was written from scratch but not the design. The design is part of the software, even if it's not part of the code.
Imagine you would take the design documents of braid(if they exist) and create your own braid game. You would write the code from scratch, but is writting the code the only thing that matters?

[Chris Koźmik]

@Archibald: My entire post was about GNU/Linux, except for that (stupid) detail. As I already said, I am sorry, it was a stupid joke. Please read my post again

Yes, I know your sin is small and I was not trying to condem your crimes. I posted this clarification in a futile attempt to stop the upcoming devillish hordes of offtopic and tried to steer it back to the rightfull path of business only related discussion

[Dacke]

@PompiPompi: you said that the Linux kernel wasn't written from scratch and I pointed out your error. I didn't claim that it sprung into existence from the void But at this point, there isn't much non-Linux left in there anyway.

@Archibald: I see, good point, back to business.

[PompiPompi]

The point is he cloned MiniX. Kind of like where you see some company make an exact(more or less) clone of another game.
Though I am not sure the level of cloning.

[Christian Knudsen]

Details on early Linux development: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~awb/linux.history.html

Perhaps this thread can get back on track now, Pompi? Games on Linux is an interesting topic -- especially for indie developers.