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Derek
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« on: June 27, 2007, 05:04:45 AM »

I'm not really sure what this is about.  Call this a continuation of the Spirit of Independent Gaming, perhaps.  But really I'm just reflecting, getting pumped up, organizing my jumbled thoughts about being an independent developer and TIGSource and the community at large.

I'll be honest, I was partly inspired to write this because Rinkuhero posted some links to the Indiegamer forums and I ended up surfing around the place (which I haven't done in a while).  It still sucks, in my opinion, but it was interesting to read about what people thought of TIGSource.  I've heard the term "elitist" leveled at TIGSource and TIGForums more than a few times now.  I know it's not used as a compliment, but I take it as one.  Because I think what it reflects is a certain standard of quality for independent games and also for our community.

So yeah, what began as a question of why people think we're elitist ended up becoming more of a general reflection of how we're doing and what we can do to be even better.  What transpires is an (as organized as I could get it without doing much editing) written version of that, for what it's worth!  And maybe it'll clarify more where I'm trying to go with all this (for me, too Huh?).

What's Good

So, so much.  I am entirely convinced that we're riding a tidal wave that's about to crest (this being independent games).  The general vibe "around town" seems to be that independent game development is where it's at, and everybody is starting to take notice, even the mainstream media.  This year was the first year I've been to IGF, but from what I've gathered, it's been the biggest.  But things are still kinda under the radar, which is great - it's the absolute best time to be active and participating in independent games and I'm excited as hell about the possibilities.

TIGSource and TIGForums are just getting better and better.  This little experiment has taken on a life of its own just like I hoped it would, with people discussing as opposed to fighting, learning as opposed to tearing down, playing and creating as opposed to whining, complaining, and trying to figure out how to make a quick buck.  We're getting to know each other and having discussions about art and Captain Commando.  The fact that a text adventure game sprung up in the forum itself is a testament to the creative power of the people on this board.  It's absolute paradise for a game developer.  I would have killed to have this forum around when I was just starting to make games.  I'll kill for it now.  You guys rock. Grin

What Could Be Better
(Note: size of this section not relative to its strength against the other sections)

There's this attitude that's still rather pervasive amongst a certain sector of the independent community (*cough* Indiegamer forums *cough*) that I think needs to be fought.  Yes, I actually believe it should be fought as opposed to ignored, because not only does it push indie upstarts in the wrong direction, but it hurts the community's image as a whole.  It's also just a really negative attitude that leads to bitter cynicism and will probably ensure that you will never live to see your dreams fulfilled.  Yes, it's THAT bad.

It's this mentality of "sell, sell, sell" as opposed to "create, create, love, create."  Call it a certain failure of capitalism, or just call it mental laziness, but these are some of the terrible antics of fellow game developers that I've encountered with alarming frequency in the few years I've been a part of the independent gaming scene:

1. The used car salesman mantra: "Anything to make a sale!"

Go ahead and spam your game everywhere!  Put on a clown nose and a funny hat and pull down your pants while you shout out your game's name over a loudspeaker!  Anything but actually make a good game!  It's basically this idea that you have to use every gimmick and cheap trick at your disposal to sell your game, and I call it the "used car salesman mantra" because you only have to resort to these tactics if you're selling a used car (or a really uninspired game).

The end result is that you (might) trick 10 stupid people into buying your game instead of actually earning the 100's or thousands of loyal fans that you need to make a living.

Also, you get permanently banned from TIGForums. Tongue

2. Doing without thinking about why.

This is a problem that afflicts game design as well as game marketing in general, but I think it's especially bad in the independent sector, where we are perceived as and, by consequence, perceive ourselves as, the smaller and lesser half of the mainstream industry.  As Greg Costikyan would say, we're "the pimple on the ass of the game industry."  Well fuck that... if you see yourself as a pimple, you'll get treated as one.

But anyway, "doing without thinking about why:" it's the reason why a lot of the early console games were cheap and hard as fuck and had you collecting items for pointless scoring systems - the developers put these mechanics in because arcade games had them and they didn't think about why they had them.  It's why so many indie devs copy mainstream games and each other and spend so much time analyzing meaningless results.  It's why Game Tunnel has a number rating system and gives out "Game of the Month" awards.  There are all these ugly, cumbersome conventions that have stuck around like unappreciated, antiquated family heirlooms just because no one bothered to think about why they existed in the first place.

Developers need to realize that different games, different demographics, different teams, and different resources mean that you have different ideals for your game and consequently, should have a very unique perspective for how you design and market your game (or how you run your website, or whatever).  There was a great thread on this forum somewhere about working with constraints and how it forces you to be creative and it's so true.  But those constraints should also include the fact that you are a unique individual making a unique game in a rather new industry that may have new rules (or no rules).

3. Money money money.

"Money isn't everything, but everything makes me want it."

You talk about money enough and eventually you lose sight of why you're doing something in the first place.  Again, if you want to make money, there are a million easier ways to do it.

And ultimately, making a clone, riffing off of someone else's ideas, or resorting to stupid marketing gobbledegook is logically far more risky than working on an idea that makes sense to you.  Why?  Because you can hack something out, make a clone, riff off someone else's idea, try to use cheap tricks... but there's always the (very good chance) that you will be outhacked, outcloned, and outriffed.  The market (whatever that is) may change.  Or your game just won't make it, whatever the reason may be.  Plus you will very well tarnish your good name and hurt your chances in the future.  (Double plus, you are hurting the credibility of the entire community!)

So the alternative is to develop a personal game - and I'm not necessarily talking about an innovative game or a "hardcore" game, but a game that you want to make for yourself.  Something that embodies something about you and about what you like about games.  So yeah, if for some reason you like to match colored things together and that's your passion, do it.  But make it your colored thing matching game.  Something that says something about you, and make it as good as you can make it.  If you don't have the resources to make something on the level of a mainstream company, then use what you have that others don't and make it the best you can.

(Mind you, when I talk about making a "personal game" I am in no way saying you should not ask for and accept the generous feedback of your fellow developers or users.  Improving graphics, sound, music, design, and gameplay should in no way compromise any kind of "vision" you've got, or else you've got a different kind of problem. Tongue)

This is not a surefire way to make a million dollars, but, barring any force majeure, I believe it is a surefire way to a certain type of success and a much more certain path to financial freedom.  Because:

1. You will have creative satisfaction. (Very important.)

2. Unless you yourself are a clone, you don't have to worry about anyone releasing your game before you do.

3. Even if you don't make enough from this game to call it a living, at the very least you will build on a potential future by strengthening your reputation as a game developer.

4. You'll learn a lot more about yourself as an artist and a game creator.  You will grow as a person.

It's a win-win situation and those are the best kinds of situations.

Remember: we're indie.  We have smaller teams, smaller budgets.  We have to compensate by having bigger brains and bigger balls.

What's Next

Game developers are creative people, not businessmen.  We're artists, designers, musicians, programmers, writers... but we should know how to handle our business.  This is different from what I described above (being a shill).  Being smart about business as a game developer means that first and foremost you have to make a good game (which I firmly believe, as stated, lies in making a personal game), but then you have to know how to sell it.  More happy developers making money from their games means more good games, and the ultimate goal is to make more games!

Unfortunately, every moment spent trying to figure out how to run a business means that you are not concentrating on your game, so one direction I'd like to go in with TIGSource is to make it a single-stop resource for game developers who want to learn how to run a business and make a living selling their games.

The Indiegamer forums has thousands of users, but it's hard as hell to get any useful information out of there.  For one thing, it's completely disorganized.  One person asks one question, and a few weeks (days? hours?) later it's asked again.  The other thing is that you have people with no experience giving advice and because nothing is organized, you really have to sift through a lot of shit to find anything good.  I'm really happy about the community we've got growing here at TIGSource and the direction it's heading, so I'm not worried about the latter.  I think we already have and will continue to have a wealth of great knowledge shared on this board.  As for the former, I'll happily handle that!

This is the thread that will basically become the place to go if you want to start a game company.  Right now, of course, I'm in the middle of trying to start my own with Alec, and I'm learning a lot.  As time goes on, and I feel more confident about what I know, I'll start putting up threads relating to all those topics listed there (or hopefully some of you will Smiley) and then link them all on that index so that they can be easily tracked and updated.  I know there are a lot of experienced folk out there, so it'd be awesome to have you contribute to such threads.

Eventually it would be great to have similar info threads for making games (although we do already have some good ones for finding programming engines and the like).  I'm less concerned about those sections, just because I feel the resources are more readily available and better understood generally.

But yeah, really it's just more of what we already got!  Paradise for game developers is the goal!

DISCUSS. (Your addendums, qualms, reflections on the community or on yourself, anything.)
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Derek
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« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2007, 05:05:39 AM »

Sorry, yeah.  I didn't realize I wrote a fucking tome. Shocked
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ptoing
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« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2007, 05:18:30 AM »

Just had a quick readthrough and now I wish we had a beer emoticon.
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« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2007, 06:17:45 AM »

Preach it, brother. WOO.

I don't really get why people think TIGSource is elitist.
It's one of the most inclusive forum communities I've ever found (Though saying that might be elitist Wink ).
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« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2007, 06:26:22 AM »

Great post Derek!
I suppose other community sees this one as elitist simply because you have to introduce yourself and post something before you start showing off your game. For people who don't care about community, it's a very hard step to take Wink

This post actually makes me want to show you guys a project I've been workin' on lately. An experimental game but didn't know if I should show it yet... This is making me doubt and getting me thinking that since it's original, no one is going to have something similar and there are no worries of showing it off at an embryo stage...

Man this is getting me all excited about indie gaming and the future of videogame as well! Or perhaps I've ingested too much sugar... Either way I'm happy! :D
Later!
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fish
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« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2007, 06:28:36 AM »

right now is so intense.
there are tons of cheesy powerbalads to be written about right now.
with lyrics about the heat of the moment, and tonight being the night.
and rocking you like a hurricane.

im pretty sure 10 years from now, some people here will be remembered as "those indie devs from late 00s" the indie rennaisance.

also, does being called elitist imply we are the elite?
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Derek
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« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2007, 06:42:33 AM »

We're in a position where any one of us can make something and have a real, palpable impact on the industry!



KAPOW!  It's awesome.
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Alec
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« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2007, 06:45:21 AM »

Yay, Toronto!
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Alex May
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« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2007, 06:47:51 AM »

Thanks Derek Smiley Great post.
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« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2007, 08:00:59 AM »

I love TIGSource because it is elitist (though I prefer the term "selective").

IndieGamer, as much as I like a lot of the people on there, has a lot of Match-3 garbage and a lot of people who are obviously just in it for the money. I think Mr. Fost said it best about the forum in general. I think GameDev suffers from the same sort of commercial bias from time to time; I've certainly seen more games I like coming out of this community than I ever saw coming out of there in the past seven-odd years.

I love your post. We should frame it, or something. The TIGForums are awesome because it's like everyone else just like me is wasting as much time posting at work as I am. I don't think we've even had an honest flamewar, even.
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« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2007, 10:02:47 AM »

we are so evolved.
we should all go live in a country house together, grow vegetables and make games all day. and then make love all night.
a community of game developers that sleeps together is a community of developers that STAYS together.

but yes, the total abcense of flaming is weird.
what the hell people.

xbox? more like xbutt, amirite?
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Alex May
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« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2007, 10:07:36 AM »

There are more freeware hobbyists here though, I think that makes the big difference. As soon as money comes into the equation that's when things can get strained and the "love" seems to take a back seat. And it's obvious over at indygamer. That's not to say that all shareware indies will be like that, c.f. all the guys up making cash here, rinkuhero, Fost was around for a while I think? Derek and Alec, and whoever else. There are also examples of people making games they love over at ig, and doing well enough out of it. It's just a shame that it often seems to devolve into "what's selling, is this new type of game selling, is your game you made out of love selling" etc. That's ok, that's what that forum is for. But because this forum isn't about that, it's much more chilled.
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2007, 11:11:09 AM »

Nice post.

I'm not against a lot of the sales tricks actually, excepting the stupid ones. One shouldn't obsess over them, but word of mouth can't do everything. But I agree that they're often more boring than making games: I made a list of marketing things I was going to try here but almost immediately got bored of them and started working on my next game; I still plan on marketing, but because I find a lot of those things boring I've been putting them off -- I should have sent out a press release for Immortal Defense by now (it's been nearly a month), but I still haven't put it together. Instead I've been arguing with my "mating partner" as Lorne called him over the story of our next game.

But I also don't separate business and making games so starkly. Making games and telling people about those games can go hand in hand. If you made a great game, you want people to play it. Even if your game is just freeware, you would still want to  "market" it if you loved it, because you want as many people to enjoy it as possible.

I agree very strongly about thinking about what we are doing. One danger is cloning earlier NES/SNES games and uncritically thinking it's great just because it's retro. Something can be retro and great, but a game isn't great just because it plays and looks like earlier games. That's just as bad as the match-3 thing.

I agree that people should make personal games, but I think it's hard to judge whether a game is personal to someone too. For instance, take FF7. There are good arguments for both sides -- that it's a game the creators personally wanted to make and had something important to say with and cared about, or that it's a game that's just a 3D Final Fantasy designed to sell. It's hard to tell from the outside.

So I don't want to tell someone and I don't like the idea of telling someone that their game isn't personal or that they didn't really care about it and just made it for money, because it's impossible to know that, it's "psychologizing", I'd just instead say that their game didn't feel unique to me and I didn't enjoy it.

I think indiegamer.com has some good points. I respect many of its members too. Cliffski, Papillon, and others there generally have some great posts, and make distinctive, personal games.

I think you're right about the lightning.
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« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2007, 11:52:35 AM »

Man, the point wasn't that marketing was boring. You don't have to treat us like kids.

TIGForums also aren't all about retro games. Nobody here is that stupid.

The point was business doesn't have to come first. Business doesn't have to be the leading cause.

In fact if you're indie, IDEALLY, if you're not a total douche, it should be at least somewhat the other way around.
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« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2007, 12:27:36 PM »

Marketing is good up to a point, but it shouldn't be the primary push. I think part of IG's personality is that it's the thing a lot of people over there have in common; they all have different backgrounds (technically, artistically) and they're making totally different games with different philosophies. Profit's pretty much the factor that pulls the community together.

Here, it's manhugs.

/7000th post on tigsource OMFG
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2007, 12:39:44 PM »

Yeah, I got that point, and I agree that needs to be fought. The boringness part was mainly my own interjection of my experience with it.

It's true that one can be focused too much on making money, and it's a nefarious force and leads to unenjoyable games. But I'm not sure that the answer is character attacks on the people who do it and telling people to make games from the heart. I don't know what the answer is, and maybe that actually is the answer, but I think there should be more involved in the solution than that.

Perhaps many indie games are unenjoyable/unoriginal/clones not because people don't love them enough, but because they aren't experienced enough, or not imaginative enough, or lack self-confidence, some other reason(s)?

Yes, TIGSource isn't all about retro games, but I think there's a bias for them here too. I'm not free of it myself, in earlier years I once complained to a friend that their NES-like game used more colors than the NES would be capable of so it wasn't really NES-like.

I didn't mean to treat anyone like a kid. I can be pretty bad at communication sometimes -- but my outlook is that you can't make a community of people value heart over money by just saying they should. I'm also not all that sure that the ones that don't even matter. Do they get in your way? They give indie games a bad image, yes, but why not think of them as things on the side of the road that you'll zoom by, not as walls in your way. People have their motivations, and they're difficult to change.
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Alec
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« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2007, 12:45:47 PM »

Yeah, why bother saying anything or having opinions.
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2007, 12:46:55 PM »

No, as I said I think it was a nice post. It's great to have opinions on these things. It's also great to have counter-opinions on those opinions.
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« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2007, 12:53:12 PM »

Oh, heaven forbid we might actually discuss something.
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2007, 01:09:03 PM »

Yeah, that would make this like a forum or something.  Smiley

I think "what I love about my game" is more fruitful to think about than "why other people don't love their games". It's easier to lead with honey than vinegar in other words. Not that we shouldn't think about the second, just that I don't see it as as important as the first.
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