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TIGSource ForumsCommunityDevLogsKerfuffle
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Author Topic: Kerfuffle  (Read 97233 times)
happymonster
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« Reply #660 on: July 05, 2015, 02:52:54 PM »

I like SpaceDuck Smiley
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siskavard
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« Reply #661 on: July 05, 2015, 06:24:21 PM »

LONG LIVE QUARK
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Rat Casket
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« Reply #662 on: October 12, 2015, 07:42:26 AM »

Player Controlled Hazards

When I started working on Kerfuffle I knew that I didn’t want to have regular ol’ hazards. Various pits populated with spikes, lava, infinite blackness, and other normal “death pit” tropes were out of the question. Mostly because its boring but also because its really static and cuts off the playable space. In the original concept for The Maw stage, the bottom layer was just a spike pit. It sucked.

The idea behind The Maw is that the high ground player has the advantage. There are no hazards on top, but it is where players spawn in. The middle layer has a small hazard that prevents you from executing a full height jump, and of course the bottom layer is instant death. I was pretty happy with the top and middle layers, but the bottom needed some dramatic changes.
As the stage started to flesh out, and we settled on the hot spring theme, it was decided that the spikes would be replaced with monkeys. Despite the fact that this isn’t a snowy hot spring, we added white Japanese macaques anyway. You know, the red faced fuckers that hang out in hot springs.

If the player falls to the bottom layer they are no longer instantly killed. Instead, should they land close enough to one of the macaques, it wakes up and chases the player. If it catches the player, they are killed, and the macaque wanders for a bit before going back to sleep. The player can also kill the macaques, and they will respawn a short while after.

This is way more interesting than simply falling into a pit and being killed. The player has a decent chance at escaping, most of the time, and the bottom layer of the stage is still the most dangerous.

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Rat Casket
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« Reply #663 on: October 12, 2015, 08:24:46 AM »

Playtesting and Reduction of Scope

At the end of August we put out a test build and let me tell you something, kids. It was shit. As it turns out, it is very difficult to develop a multiplayer game alone with no one to test with. Let alone four someones. A handful of people were kind enough to test the game, and one guy was super great and recorded some video.

of horrifically slow and boring game play. This video has been the single most important thing in the development of Kerfuffle so far. It reveals every single problem the game has. So after watching this like a hundred times, and getting feedback from about 25-30 play testers, here are the problems and the steps I am taking to resolve them.

Slowness
The first major problem I noticed was how slow the game was. Characters have long attack animations, long death animations, bounce around forever before despawning, and then taking even MORE time to respawn. Originally I thought it would be good to allow the players some time between a kill/respawn to re-position themselves on the map. Which is still totally a valid idea but the time between kill and respawn is just too great.

To fix this I've dramatically shortened the time it takes to despawn the character once they are dead. Instead of a beam from space to pick up the players, they explode. This despawns and then respawns the player instantly. No more waiting around. If a dead character is hit BEFORE the initial despawn explosion happens, they explode and despawn when hit. This, in theory, allow players to have more control over the pace of the match. It still grants a second or two to re-position yourself if you need it. Also explosions have a habit of making everything feel much more urgent.

The second big problem is that some of the characters have really lengthy attacks. Take Jiro's spin attack for example, or any of Quark's attacks. They just take forever. Quark in particular slows the game to a pace. He is able to zone out opponents with his projectiles, effectively creating a wall between him and his would be killers. When this happens the game just stops. The attacking player isn't advancing. No one is dying. Nothing is going on. That sucks. However fixing this problem leads me into another major change to the game...

Simplicity
When I started to make this game I had big ideas for asymmetrical combat. Characters with crazy move sets that were totally different and completely unique from one character to the next. So thats what we did and it turned out to be a bad idea. It turns out that none of your big fancy moves are worth a damn when the guy you're fighting dies in one hit, to any of your attacks, regardless of their fanciness. Play testers were confused when switching between characters, projectile attacks, and how all of this shit was supposed to work together. The confusion was justified though. None of this shit worked together after all.

I still stand by my asymmetrical design for this game. Characters still have unique movement speed, fall speed, acceleration, attack speed, attack range, attack hitbox angles, etc etc. Aside from that I have chosen to just gut all of the goofy attacks. No more one off confusing attacks from one character to the other. No more projectiles for ANY character without the use of items. All characters now have the same 4 attack directions. Now, as I've had to explain to every single person I have talked to about this, that does not mean every character is the same.

Lets compare Shelly and Jiro under this new design. Yes they both have up, down, left, and right attacks. Yes they are all the same button presses. This is where the similarities end. Shellby attacks with spikes that protrude from her helmet. Her up attack is a tall, narrow attack with quite a bit of vertical range. Her down attack is much shorter in comparison. Jiro has a wide, short range up attack. It covers his entire sprite from left to right but doesn't extend nearly as high as Shellby's does. His down attack, while also fairly wide, has much more reach than Shellby's down attack. By having this simple difference in range, these two characters now play entirely different. Shellby has the tools to control the space below her opponent, while Jiro controls the space above. The goal of each character becomes different.

Get under a guy and jam a spike into his soft butt cheek meat.
Jump over someone and brain them with high quality tuna.
And so on and so forth until the end of time.



There are some other issues that need to be addressed like the camera, lack of effects, good sound effects, blah blah blah, that will make the game significantly more exciting but this post has already dragged on far longer than it should have.
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Xonatron
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« Reply #664 on: October 12, 2015, 09:30:16 AM »

Love the opening animation on this one!
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Matthew Doucette, Xona Games
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« Reply #665 on: October 12, 2015, 02:41:23 PM »

Holy shit an update for Kerfuffle! And it's a post about multiplayer game design!  Screamy

Is the hype train back on track?
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marcgfx
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« Reply #666 on: October 12, 2015, 03:07:06 PM »

great to see you are still working on kerfuffle. the game looks really nice, but yes, the gameplay video does look quite boring. one part that is really missing is the player comments though. as its local multiplayer, the reaction of the person next to you also adds to the atmosphere. did the testers have fun?

youre anaylsis seems pretty good and I think it's wise that you are ready to remove some features to improve the game. you never know, maybe there will be a sensible time to add some of them back in a different form later.

good luck on your improvements!
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« Reply #667 on: October 12, 2015, 06:16:42 PM »

yeah people said it was fun but i never saw it played IRL so i dont believe them, or assume they have bad taste. theres no way that game is fun lol.

in an attempt at more fun, you have the option to add more HP so its no longer 1 hit kill. Then you can do cool combos like this.



but you can recover and escape




obviously still needs tweaking but hey. i just added it.
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« Reply #668 on: October 13, 2015, 01:55:06 AM »

combos! I think thats a great improvement. it should open up a huge new world of possibilities. I was pretty sure you were going to stick with the single hit kill. combos will be way more satisfying. I like where this is heading  Grin
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Rat Casket
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« Reply #669 on: October 13, 2015, 04:54:10 AM »

i had never planned to keep it at 1 hit, but its up to the player. you can adjust hp between 1-10, just as you are able to adjust any setting in the game.
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« Reply #670 on: October 13, 2015, 06:33:40 AM »

Alright, I'll be the one to ask I guess. WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN AND WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN DOING ALL THIS TIME??
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« Reply #671 on: October 13, 2015, 08:30:29 AM »

I noticed the game slows down with each hit. Classic fighting game mechanic, but I don't know if it would work for 4 people. In Smash Bros. I think there's no slow down although some hits shake the camera. Unless you implemented the slow down to only affect the 2 players interacting.
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« Reply #672 on: October 13, 2015, 06:24:35 PM »

Love the style and animation and character design  Hand Clap

that little baboon <3
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Rat Casket
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« Reply #673 on: October 19, 2015, 05:54:53 PM »



added tech rolling, and hit stun. this is so you dont get btfo on one touch. this is all pretty basic fighting game stuff so if you know your way around fighters then just skip this. after being hit, depending on what attack hit you, you are put into hit stun for x amount of frames. after those frames have passed you are able to tech roll out of the stun or wait for your character to recover automatically. you can tech roll forward, backward, or in place. you are invincible during your tech roll.
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« Reply #674 on: October 29, 2015, 06:05:36 AM »

I spent some time talking to the team behind Pocket Rumble and I learned a lot from it. Right now Kerfuffle has no input buffering. To me this felt fine because I've been playing so much of it during development that I can reliably combo/dash/jump out of attacks. When someone else tried to play it, it ended up being really stiff and awkward. (insert penis joke here) I'm not sure if I will add input buffering because I don't want combos to be too easy, or escaping to be too easy. If you can dash out of an attack 100% of the time on the first available frame then... idk. Seems lame.
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Rat Casket
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« Reply #675 on: October 29, 2015, 06:50:07 AM »


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CakeDrake
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« Reply #676 on: October 29, 2015, 07:08:00 AM »

Are those seperate sprites, if not how did you do it?
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« Reply #677 on: October 29, 2015, 07:11:33 AM »

Following this. Very cute and I like how it originated from LD Smiley
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Rat Casket
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« Reply #678 on: October 29, 2015, 07:17:14 AM »

Are those seperate sprites, if not how did you do it?

they are separate sprites
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« Reply #679 on: October 31, 2015, 06:18:37 AM »

Hey Rat Casket, I’m also working on a platformer/brawler game and I’ve run into the same questions regarding input buffer.
I was so accustomed to the gameplay that I didn’t see it as an issue but when I started playtesting it with other players I saw this stiff and awkward (yeah, penis joke again plz) "perfect" timing requirement as something making the game not accessible enough.

At first, I implemented a generic input buffer and the whole gameplay felt much more fluid and smoother. But in some cases, it made some skillful moves and combos way too easy to pull off…

I remembered how some fighting games I love implemented it and realized that using an input buffer doesn’t necessarily mean you must put it in all your gameplay areas.
For example, Street Fighter IV has a quite long input buffer for special moves (and input leniency helps too) but normal attacks links require a strict timing.
Guilty Gear has (probably ?) an even longer input buffer, making normal attacks "gatling" combos easy to pull off but some moves require a very precise execution (for instance there are some just frame combos and FRCs (some special moves recovery frames can be completely cancelled if you press 3 buttons during a very short frame window).
What I did for my game was to set a long input buffer for most movements (especially for jumping, like Nintendo did for most Mario games except Mario Maker (weird)) but not use it -or with a shorter duration- for what I designed as "skillful" moves (parry, dash, some specific tech recoveries/cancels etc.).

All in all, I think it all depends on your design, where do you want to focus, what kind of players you are targeting and if you want twitch skills to be an important part of your game (which is not the same as adding depth/interesting choices).
« Last Edit: October 31, 2015, 06:25:04 AM by Baptiste » Logged
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