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[JackieJay]

A lot of people often complain that mmorpgs nowadays have zero originality, or just not ambitious enough.

Assuming you agree with one or both of those statements (personally I do), what would the mmorpg of your dreams ?

[iffi]

I've been having a lot of fun with Vindictus recently, so it would probably be something similar to that, at least in combat mechanics (though Vindictus is barely an MMORPG).

[Türbo Bröther]

One's already been made: PlanetSide.

[Pineapple]

First of all, I like my online games to have small open communities downward of 100 regular players otherwise it feels completely impersonal. Secondly, I hate RPGs with few exceptions.

So my dream MMORPG would have to be pretty not MMORPG-ish.

[Nix]

My favorite online games have been MUDs from Iron Realms (Achaea; Midkemia for a little while). The biggest aspects of these games that stood out to me were the roleplaying and the focus on community and social interaction. My dream MMO would take all the best aspects of the RP-heavy MUDs of Iron Realms and translate them into a modern, graphical game. This would mean the interface should be less of a method for playing the game and more of a way of interacting with the world. Combat should be a secondary aspect to world-interaction. In fact, there should be a place in the world for people who have no desire whatsoever to explore the game's combat. Being able to give players the same freedom to do things as is inherently available in text-based games it the biggest hurdle to overcome with a game like this, and is perhaps the reason that no graphical MMO has achieved the level of immersion and fantasy that makes MUDs so great.

[Xion]

I actually wrote a massive post about my dream-mmo (on another forum) that began as something about a zelda MMO and quickly devolved into a rant about what I'd want from MMOs in general...I'd feel weird posting it since it's so old and ranty but I guess it fits the topic so if anyone wants me to I will.

[HDSanctum]

I've been having a lot of fun with Vindictus recently, so it would probably be something similar to that, at least in combat mechanics (though Vindictus is barely an MMORPG).

-_-" After downloading it twice (thanks to not being able to resume a dc), it turns out I can't play it in Australia.

[JackieJay]

Nix: I think what makes MUDs special is the element of imagination. In a regular mmorpg you can see the players, the npcs, the environment etc... while in a mud all you have is short descriptions, your imaginations is forced to draw everything in your head.
Honestly I'm not too much into muds, though I used to read Fighting Fantasy books when I was younger.

Xion: Go ahead ! 

[s0]

Let me preface this with saying I've enjoyed games like Diablo 2, Monster Hunter, Demon's Souls and Phantasy Star Online, but I don't necessarily consider them "MMOs" in the normal sense because they don't have persistent worlds and are based on out-of-gameplay matchmaking, among other things.

My main issue with "traditional" MMOs is that they mainly reward time investment as opposed to skill and are often deliberately designed to be massive time sinks with the social aspect serving as an anchor to keep you from quitting the game. The "hands-off" combat these games usually have is dreadfully boring as well, like playing an RTS with only one unit or something. Also, no MMORPG I've played is actually good as an RPG. Design-wise they were all early-90s level grindfests with a multiplayer feature. And my final gripe is that MMOs mostly fail at establishing any sense of atmosphere or immersion. When I was playing WoW for instance, I never felt like I was in a medieval fantasy world (or steampunk or whatever Warcraft is), but rather a large chat room with animated player avatars.

So, if were to design an MMO, I'd do the following

• Make player skill (twitch reflexes and "tactical skill" more important than grinding. Even the best gear can't save you from dying if you don't master the game mechanics.
• Or maybe remove grinding entirely. Make investing skill points/choosing gear a real strategic choice.
• No "time investment entry barrier" and no guilds.
• Focus on creating an immersive atmosphere. Limit player communication to avoid fourth wall breaking.
• Make exploration feel less formulaic and ritualized. Don't divide world up into clearly-defined "level areas" but make transitions smooth.
• No hundreds of generic fetch quests. Instead just a couple of genuinely fun and meaningful quests, the rest is "free-form" play.
• And finally, somewhat related to this, no huge amounts of mediocre content. Instead, keep things moderate in quantity but high in quality

[RCIX]

My MMORPG would be an MMORTS (RPGs are nice, but.... meh). The most interesting issue is how to allow new players to establish themselves in an environment with strong "empires" (for lack of a better word) without the established guys roflstomping every noob they come across. Perhaps make it so that being smaller grants you unique bonuses (in mobility and concentratable firepower f.e.) to offset any bonuses of being big? This would lead to an environment less centric around huge warring armies, but i'm not sure if it would help with the player skill issue.

I actually wrote a massive post about my dream-mmo (on another forum) that began as something about a zelda MMO and quickly devolved into a rant about what I'd want from MMOs in general...I'd feel weird posting it since it's so old and ranty but I guess it fits the topic so if anyone wants me to I will.

Please do! rants are always fun to pick apart

[Nix]

The most interesting issue is how to allow new players to establish themselves in an environment with strong "empires" (for lack of a better word) without the established guys roflstomping every noob they come across.

In those MUDs I was talking about, the "newbie" problem is solved as a sort of side effect of the many immersion organizations in the world. For example, Achaea has a number of cities, houses (like guilds), and orders (religious organizations) that all have systems in place to be welcoming to newbies. This gives new players a welcoming environment to figure out the game while contributing to the organization, and the new players aren't at risk of being picked on by stronger rogue players because the weak players have their entire organization backing them up.

In an MMORTS, a similar system could be in place with "alliances" or something like that. New players are automatically placed in an alliance, and experienced players of the alliance keep the new players relatively safe while they get their bearings.

I think this idea can be generalized to any online game with a "newbie problem": this problem is best solved by introducing mechanics to the community rather than to the game itself.

[DeadPixel]

My ideal MMO would probably have a small community like Madk mentioned; both for the tighter interpersonal bonds and fun to be had from that social connection, and because the game under that would work better with fewer people.

Basically I want an immersive, multiplayer Nethack-esque game.  During each session the game world would be randomly generated by the server, and players set loose upon it.  I'm thinking a dungeon setting here, but it could be anything.  Players can cooperate or compete to obtain that session's goal.  Once done (over a decent period of time, maybe a month or so per session?) the game ends, rewards are dolled out to the champion(s), and the next session is geared up...

Player characters would start fresh each session though their backing accounts would remain static.  Clans/guilds would be account based to allow for easy co-op play amongst friends.

I just feel like that's something I'd really like to be a part of, and one day hope to work towards creating.

[Nix]

Nix: I think what makes MUDs special is the element of imagination.

I don't disagree with you, but I don't think that it's the imagination itself that makes my favorite MUDs so great. All of the things that I like about Achaea are possible because the text format enables imagination and that imagination enables those aspects of the games that I enjoy the most to be as fantastic and easy to enjoy as they are.

In Cyrene (a city in Achaea), for example, there is an annual parade where illusionists conjure up a wide variety of floats and balloons of their own design. How would this same depth of interaction be possible in a graphical game where the players can't just type in what the float looks like and "have it be?" I don't know. But in my dream MMO, it would be possible and as easy (or easier) than in text-based MUDs.

[DeadPixel]

I have to agree with Nix here.  I dev'd on a MUD (lostsouls.org) off and on for about a decade, and the type of exploration (dev-wise) and iteration that you can pull off just isn't possible when you have to attach graphics to every object. 

The ability to describe in a summary of sentances, rather than painstakingly render, an object allows for an incredible amount of depth on the part of the creator while still leaving plenty of room for the player to fill in the cracks themselves.

[Xion]

okay. You can completely ignore the "Zelda" parts and just imagine the same game in whatever setting.

Subject: Zelda, MMO
Type: Dream Rant
Method: Fingers wouldn't stop typing


Anyway, what I want is a real, official Zelda MMO. Maybe with combat like the 3d Zeldas only with a little more stat based outcomes (only a little though). Like speed, power, magic, accuracy. Accuracy beats speed, power beats accuracy, magic beats power, speed beats magic. Maybe not so black and white as that. Maybe magic can beat speed sometimes. Maybe accuracy can fell power in a single blow sometimes. Not so black and white, see? But as a rule of thumb. Swords, knives, hammers, axes, polearms, fist weapons (incl. fists), bows, slingshots, boomerangs, rods, bombs, hookshots. Maybe you can make your own weapons. Find ingredients, bring them to smiths. Eyedrops.

Maybe there could be factions like in WoW or something, two or three sides, those with Ganon, and those against him, different races. On one side would be the Hylians (balance), Zora (stealthy), Gorons (warriors), and Ruto (casters), on the other would be the Stalfos (balance), Moblins (warriors), Bokoblins (casters?), and Gerudo (stealthy). The world would be huge, with landmarks from every zelda game and some new ones. Two worlds, dark and light. Light world is less dangerous. Dark world is free-for-all. Anyone can attack anyone. Even allies. (turn off safety.) Dungeons. Most dungeons need a group since they have puzzles you can't do by yourself or with just one class. Mounts. Ride a horse or a giant Tektite or a dodongo. Learn spells and shit. Get items. Dungeons have different items for each class. Rogue finds hover boots. Warrior finds Mirror Shield. I dunno.

Items. Equipment. Primary weapons. Sword, spear, etc. Then secondary weapons. Bow, boomerang, etc. Then tertiary. bombs, hookshots. Can only carry one of each weapon type at a time. Not five bows. One bow. Store the other four at home. Four bottles. Don't waste your shit. Shields. Armors. Tons of fucking armors. New types of shields. Shield that has spikes. Can ram with it. Shield that can leave behind temporary, weak energy shields. Shield that absorbs things and replenishes magic. Shield that absorbs things and can shoot out energy bolts when charged. Boots. Hover boots. Boots that increase speed. No leveling. Item-based stats. Armor that increases strength. Helmet that grants reflectivity, chancily reflecting any projectile that hits you. Learn new moves. Like in Twilight Princess. Like in Wind Waker. Hundreds of moves. Or dozens. Whichever. I dunno.

PvP. Hell yeah.

The thing I hate most about MMOs is that nothing you do ever changes anything. After every quest, every boss fight, every dungeon run, things return to status quo. Maybe there could be a kind of quest economy. Each quest only has a certain number of runs. After like 50 or so people do it it disappears and another quest appears elsewhere. It might come back later, but you'd never know when. And maybe have the effects of quests follow individuals. I know what I mean by this but I can't explain it. Like, don't just do a quest or series of quests and then leave and completely forget about them, have some way to make sure that the player never really forgets about the things they've done.

And on the subject of economy, have a dungeon economy as well. The more people go into a dungeon the less profitable it becomes to go there. They'll all clean it out of the good stuff, including enemies. If you go to a dungeon a week after a big rush it'll still be barren and deserted, populated with weak enemies, or young versions of the powerful enemies that will repopulate it later. Maybe there could be a character who puts the stuff in the dungeons. Really hard to catch in the act, but they go into dungeons and restock their treasures and empower enemies. If you managed to catch them maybe they'd sell really really rare, expensive items at a slight discount. Or maybe they'd try to kill you.

Maybe bosses could have young transitory versions of themselves. They'd just be really powerful normal enemies on the overworld that would seek out a dungeon to boss over. When a boss dies, that boss' dungeon gets marked as inhabitable, and boss enemies searching for a home add that dungeon to their list of places to check out. There could be different versions of the same boss signifying the same enemy type finding different dungeons and adapting to their homes. Maybe it would be possible for certain dungeons to become permanently cleaned. They'd be really high level dungeons with super-hard enemies though, and it would take an army to raid them to the point where they were no longer considered dungeons. And they'd have to be reasonable places too. Not like Ganon's Citadel or anything, but that temple over there that was taken over by raiders and shit. Clean it out and the nearby town would reclaim it as a Temple rightful. But then another location somewhere would be marked to become a dungeon. Across the world a town would come under attack, and the catacombs below the church would fill with enemies. It would become a dungeon. Cleanable, but again, high level and requiring an army.

It would keep things in motion. It would keep the world dynamic. Players would actually have some influence on the world, and safe towns wouldn't always be so safe. At any time they might become designated to become a dungeon and the invasion would start. It wouldn't be sudden. There would be build up. An army would set out from the Keep far to the north and begin its slow trek. Players would be able to slow the caravan, but it would be hard to do. More importantly, they'd be able to warn the towns in the path of the army and set up chokepoints and stuff. Ambush the caravan and steal precious items, cash-money, take out generals for bonus whatevers. Wouldn't be able to stop it cold though. At least not for long.

Once the army reaches the dungeon-to-be, a battle. If the town has no player support it could fall in minutes. If it has a bunch of players defending it, it could take hours. They'll take it anyway. To keep the world balance, you see? It shouldn't be possible to have a world with too few dungeons, and once a place is designated to become a dungeon the change is inevitable. But players fighting to keep the place from becoming a dungeon would still get some kind of reward, like items, or honor, or maybe they'll keep the opposition at bay long enough for an important NPC to escape. This NPC would then have a quest chain which wouldn't exist if he'd been let to die. The enemy breaks through the town's defenses and rushes the church, after some time. There is something beneath it that they want. They take up residence in the winding temple below and the town becomes a dungeon. I'm not even talking about Zelda any more.

Players could act to influence the dungeonstate as well. Certain places would automatically stop being dungeons when completed. Certain quests would mark locations to become dungeons. Like say you need to steal some plans, and then assassinate a leader of an opposing faction's dungeon, and then beat 100 enemies within that dungeon. Do this and the dungeon gets marked for a change, from their dungeon to your dungeon. These transitions, unlike the others, could be stopped, because it's a dungeon-dungeon transition. The total amount of dungeons would remain stable.

Anyway.

Then there would be the big bosses. The major storyline to the game. The endgame state of the world. Slay the Lich King. Slay Ganon. Resurrect Ganon. Kill the King. Crown a new King. When both factions' leaders are alive the world is in balance (but at war). If one or the other dies the balance shifts. Quests change. One faction becomes "the Rebels". The underdogs. Their primary goal becomes regaining a leader.

I'm not talking about Zelda anymore.

in response to a cry of dismay regarding "MMOs are always grindy and have stupid stats and the equipment differs only in numbers":

The reason I want a Zelda MMO is because I think a Zelda MMO would properly not have any of those things - the grinding or the stats or the items which differ only in appearance and numbers, but not function. There would be way fewer items compared to the usual gajillions in normal MMOs (but there'd still be a whole bunch) but they'd all serve a distinct purpose and shit, and be very different from each other, and the combat system would be the same or similar to the 3d zeldas. I know I said have a few stats but I wasn't thinking like "level up" stats, I was thinking like obtain item z and you get a speed boost, or obtain item x and you get an accuracy boost. Items z and x would be, of course, rewards at the end of a dungeon.

And the quests would be stuff that actually have an impact on the game world, as opposed to 1000 people doing the same thing 1000 times and nothing changing. Even if there were a quest that was "kill 100 gurbleburbles", it would be safe to assume that once you killed those dudes something would change and the quest wouldn't exist any more.

And what procedural generation? Dungeons would be hand crafted. The only thing that would really change are the bosses and maybe a few of the enemies inside, but the bosses would still be hand crafted and have a strategy to kill. Maybe there would be more than one way to kill the boss to accommodate for differently equipped players taking it on but just wailing away at it would never work. Be limited to like 3 or 4 methods of beating him, all real specific. Same with enemies. The normal enemies would have unique behaviors and shit, again differing more than just in stats and stuff.

Also, team dungeons and shit. Like have a dude stand on that switch to open the gate and then you have to go find a way to get him out of the room while he fights off a bunch of dudes, or a goron throwing a deku dude up onto a high ledge and stuff.

I just think the Zelda universe is so big and awesome and shit that it's just begging for an multiplayer version. It gets lonely sometimes being the only hero, or being a hero at all, and sometimes I wanna be a moblin and just fuck shit up, or a stalfos because stalfos are awesome, and I've wanted to fight a human with the 3d Zelda combat system since OOT first came out.

And anyway, beyond the zelda parts of this rant, I think the whole dungeon economy thing and 'have an impact on the world' is not all that bad an idea.

I like Zelda, okay?

[Kren]

My main complaint is that most mmorpg revolve around the same theme and idea, medieval worlds with similar enemies, even if they have different stuffs, most are around medieval ideas. which is why I find them unoriginal :/, I would like to see more themes, for example, a prehistoric mmorpg, a bioshock theme , anything else works, thats what I dislike of most mmorpg they are too similar atleast for me.

[Xion]

I have no problem with fantasy settings - I really like fantasy settings and medieval shit, actually. I don't like elves tho. Fuck those guys. But I'd rather have a fun game than one with a wildly original setting. It could be based on some crazy cool original shit that no one's ever seen before or something, but if it plays the same as all the rest what's the point.

A prehistoric mmo does sound interesting though...instead of forming raiding parties you'd form hunting parties and go take down a mammoth or something...

[eva_]

a gambling mmo wher if u lose... u pay doubl the subscription fee!!!

[Pineapple]

a gambling mmo wher if u lose... u pay doubl the subscription fee!!!

Why would anyone want to play that?

Oh wait, that's like saying nobody plays the lottery. Whoever does this will probably get rich.

[Türbo Bröther]

My main complaint is that most mmorpg revolve around the same theme and idea, medieval worlds with similar enemies, even if they have different stuffs, most are around medieval ideas. which is why I find them unoriginal :/

Maybe you could give PlanetSide a look-in, or EVE if you love drowning in complexity.