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[J. R. Hill]

Virtual On.


With the exception of every console port of the game, in which the controls were unintentionally horrible.

Virtual On had pretty good controls I thought.  Intentionally weird maybe, but they weren't very hard to get used to, and they were pretty responsive.

I thought this thread was about "intentionally weird" and not "just bad game design"

[X3N]

http://www.kongregate.com/games/Eric_Gurt/dead-drunk-1-1
Play a drunk sysadmin on his way home!
You control a flopping stick-figure who stumbles around with physics.. and it makes explosion sounds when you impact a wall too hard. Fun.

[Chris Z]

Oh man so I was playing this game called SUPER METROID, which some say it's /the best game ever/ _{(this part isn't important, okay?)} and guess what, I spent most of the time trying to make the controls work.

Walljump, I'm looking at you.

I'm not sure that was intentionally bad, walljumping just wasnt as prevalent at the time and I dont think the team had a grasp for what smooth walljumping should feel like controlwise.  Or maybe they did but didnt have time to go back and fix it.  There wasnt enough leeway for when youre not doing the flip jump or not completely on the wall.  I found it easier to not try to jump off right away but to wait until you slide down then slowly hit direction then jump.

[John Nesky]

I know from experience that it's possible to beat Super Metroid without realizing that the wall jumping even exists. However, I had a turbo controller that let me effortlessly infinite-bomb-jump straight up out of the pit where you're supposed to learn how to wall jump. I do regard that room as one of the worst parts of Super Metroid.

[SirNiko]

Once you get used to it, I think Wall Jumping is well-implemented in Super Metroid. It's just not something that children and novice players can pick up quickly.

Later Metroid games (The Prime games) made the wall jump into a one-button deal where your only goal was to time your jumps. It was easier, but you lost a lot of the flexibility of the 2-d games.

-SirNiko

[J. R. Hill]

Oh man how could I forget about Onimusha?

Absolutely the worst control scheme I've ever played with in any game and yet I got used to it.

[tim_the_tam]

suda 51.

[rob]

I'm actually playing through NMH2 with a broken Wiimote. Every minute or two Travis will do nothing but run to the left. I have to unplug then replug the nunchuck. From noticing it's broken to pulling it out I'm vulnerable for a few seconds. Yet somehow the game's still playable.

[team_q]

Based on some of the press I've heard about Heavy Rain, they make some decisions more difficult to commit to by forcing you to contort your hand into complex button presses. Some Games media aren't a fan, but I was listening to Rebel FM, Anthony Gallegos explained it as if the difficulty of the button presses is a 'warning' that you don't want to go down that path. I was thinking, it might also be difficulty to make sure you truly want to commit to that decision.

Unfortunately, I don't have the budget for AAA games right now, so I won't have the opportunity to give it a try.


Also, the thread is Intentionally 'Bad' Controls, there has to be INTENT when the controls are bad, not neglect or inexperience, throwing out the name of a game(or designer) without posting thoughts about why the controls are INTENTIONALLY bad isn't really the point of the thread, as there isn't a take-away, you can't learn from it.

[laserghost]

I think there's a good number of simulation games that make their controls hard to master, because the mechanism they're simulating is also hard to master. The game itself could easily simplify those controls, but the actual real-world control scheme of the mechanism can't, due to the various constraints of reality. Like, a train can't stop on a dime, so neither does a train simulator, despite instant stopping being easier to implement on computers.

[SirNiko]

Based on some of the press I've heard about Heavy Rain, they make some decisions more difficult to commit to by forcing you to contort your hand into complex button presses. Some Games media aren't a fan, but I was listening to Rebel FM, Anthony Gallegos explained it as if the difficulty of the button presses is a 'warning' that you don't want to go down that path. I was thinking, it might also be difficulty to make sure you truly want to commit to that decision.

This was the one thing that makes Heavy Rain sound clever and fun. It's a properly implemented risk/reward system (in theory, I haven't played it). My only concern is that the "risk" is minimized when you know what you're doing (you always succeed and therefore it's not actually risk) or that the reward is so great that you have no choice but to take the risk (the reward is the "Good ending", therefore, picking the low risk route is tantamount to selecting to fail the game).

I'm interested to hear more details about this, and how it actually works out in the game. Maybe I'll pay a visit to the GameFAQs page for it.

-SirNiko

[Mikademus]

/me brings in the CPR machine, ZZAP!

I was playing some old Alone in the Dark and remembered this thread. So it is indisputable that some games intentionally make controls more difficult to increase the challenge of a game. The older Resident Evil are prime examples, and more efficient controls would make the game less challenging and scary. When I first played Alone in the Dark 1 and 2 I thought them really good and scary, but when I replayed them now I thought them annoying and frustrating due to the controls. That I thought them so cool then was probably because they did several new things at the same time--a good setting, introduced 3D, and combined adventure and horror--so I forgave the game its blemishes, or perhaps simply knew nothing better. It's a bit the same with Resident Evil: those games introduced action, horror and a player always at the disadvantage. But today, again, the controls rather takes away than contributes to the games.

So I played Doom III a while ago. The game everyone loves to hate, because of the stupidity of not being able to wield both the torch and the gun at the same time. But from the perspective discussed here--to increase tension by limiting the controls--Doom III is really a very successful game! If the torch was constantly present the game simply wouldn't be as scary.

Still, it seems that we have a situation where some gimmicks will be forgiven as long as they're compensated by something novel that both provides an experience that takes precedence as well as distracts from the shortcomings that comes with other choices. However, this would seem to be a short-lived strategy since as soon as the new grip is established and the novelty wears out the issues will overtake the other aspects.

I don't think this is a problem we really can escape. It seems to me that fear in humans generally (always?) is accompanied by feelings of shortcomings, insufficiency or incapability to handle a (threatening?) situation. And perhaps is the only way to simulate this in a game by limiting the freedom of the player and the controllability of the avatar. This might even be a game mechanics Catch-22: allow freedom and a game won't feel threatening and scary enough; restrict it and it will be remembered for "bad controls" after its novelty wears off. Is there a sweet spot to find somewhere between these?

[SirNiko]

http://www.kongregate.com/games/levelyak/sumiyaka

I saw this the other day and immediately thought of this thread. Thanks for bumping it so I don't feel like some sort of necro fanatic.

If you could play the game at half speed, this game would be incredibly short and easy. As it stands, simple tasks like jumping over a pit take several tries.

-SirNiko

[Mikademus]

http://www.kongregate.com/games/levelyak/sumiyaka

I have NEVER hated a game as much as that one! My stomach curls up and I want to scream just THINKING about it now afterwards!


* Goes to make soothing tea

[Tanner]

6.14.23 with 202 deaths.
wasn't that angering.

[Valter]

Mega Man.

Maybe someday you'll be able to shoot diagonally, little robot dude. Maybe someday.

[X3N]

Has QWOP been mentioned?
http://www.foddy.net/Athletics.html

[s0]

Yes.

[Contrary]

Has there been a discussion on fighting game moves and combo execution?

[Chris Z]

Has there been a discussion on fighting game moves and combo execution?

I'd consider that more intentionally difficult (to reward skill) rather than intentionally bad.  Unless there's a specific game you had in mind.