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[Radnom]

GOG.com success may also help prove that DRM-free software is a valid way to sell something electronically, as well.

[Hideous]

HOLY SHIT GUYS, ABE'S ODYSSEE.

Now I wish I had even more money. Because I don't have a lot. And I'm buying UT GOTY.

[William Broom]

I would be pumped, but I already bought the Abe games from Steam. Still good to see them on GOG.com as well, though.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

I think it all boils down to personal preference.  I just wanted to make sure that anyone who might have a problem with that knew where their money is going.  Really, its not GOG's fault that Interplay and Strategy First are companies of ill repute, but I have to question a business that partners with known shady characters.

This is actually an instance where I really think piracy is an acceptable route.  If I can't give a random person my money for a physical copy, then I don't want one.  I would rather just pirate a game than give my money to people I know don't deserve it.

But the developers benefitted by selling their IP to whoever owns it now. So even if you're buying it from someone who bought their IP, they still got paid for that IP (even if it was just a salary), so you're supporting people who paid people who paid the developers a salary, which is an indirect form of payment.

Also, is it okay to counterfeit if nobody directly is hurt by it? If you could just create 100 $100 bills, perfectly, and nobody would be hurt, would you? It'd still be a bad thing to do.

[TheBlackMask]

But the developers benefitted by selling their IP to whoever owns it now. So even if you're buying it from someone who bought their IP, they still got paid for that IP (even if it was just a salary), so you're supporting people who paid people who paid the developers a salary, which is an indirect form of payment.

Usually when IP changes hands its not anything beneficial.  IP only changes hands when a company is desperate to make some money to save itself from financial ruin.  In the case of the Fallout games, GOG's biggest seller, Interplay has owned that IP since day one.  In fact, the main force behind Fallout left to form Troika shortly after the first game was finished.  Yes, the people that made Fallout got paid by Interplay for it, even if it was just a salary while making the game.  However, Interplay is a company of ill repute, and I personally choose not to give my money to them.

Who owns Fallout now?  Interplay holds the rights to any Fallout MMO, where Bethesda owns the rights to any single player Fallout game.  Why?  Because Interplay needed cash to save its ass.  Right now, Interplay is still trying to snake its way out of paying wages that it owes its former employees.  I don't feel right not knowing if my money is going towards a Fallout MMO, ex-Interplay employees, or a new heated pool for Herve Caen.

Im not telling people to not buy games from GOG.  I just want to make sure people realize that GOG is doing business with companies which have done direct harm to people that work in the industry.

Also, is it okay to counterfeit if nobody directly is hurt by it? If you could just create 100 $100 bills, perfectly, and nobody would be hurt, would you? It'd still be a bad thing to do.

As for the piracy issue...I don't think things are that black or white.  I don't care about something being "a bad thing to do" because that is a relative term.  I personally don't think stealing from companies that steal from developers is wrong.  Just as I dont think that stealing from the government is wrong.  If I could counterfeit perfect $100 bills you bet I would.  I would not pirate any indie games or any game where I knew the developer was still getting a cut.

Simply put, I dont buy things because I have to.  I buy things because I want to, and if a company doesnt deserve my respect, then they certainly dont deserve my money.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Fine, if you're going to justify it that way to yourself, that's your prerogative, but it's just false to say that you aren't supporting the developers by buying a game they made, even if they won't get any more money from it.

If I paid a guy $1000 to do the music to one of my games, and you didn't care about me but cared about him, it'd be strange to argue that you shouldn't pay me anything because he has already been paid and won't get anything more if you pay me for the game. This is the same deal.

And just because something is relative doesn't mean you shouldn't care about it. E.g. it's relative or not whether your girlfriend loves you, but it's still important. Subjective things are still important to figure out and deal with. Saying that good and bad are just subjective is true, but doesn't mean that you're free to abandon good and bad and do things without a care for morality.

I'm also not sure there's any point in discussing something with someone who says "If I could counterfeit perfect $100 bills you bet I would." Those are basically the words of a sociopath, albeit an indirect sociopath.

[Tanner]

not this again

[TheBlackMask]

Is the guy that did music getting royalties?  If he isn't and I wanted to support him, buying your game wouldnt do anything for him, but I would still buy your game if I wanted it.  This is not an issue of "the developers made the game...I want to give my money to them."  This is a case where some of the publishers GOG does business with have cheated their own employees and developers.

Wanting to support the developers and not wanting to support crooks are two very different things.

Saying that good and bad are just subjective is true, but doesn't mean that you're free to abandon good and bad and do things without a care for morality.

Morality itself is a relative term.  What is moral for one person may not be moral for another.  So, please, don't try and push your morals on me.  Honestly, I don't appreciate being called a sociopath.  I am simply trying to make sure that people know that GOG has some business partners which have harmed the industry in the past, and this should be scrutinized.  

I would rather be called a sociopath and have formed my own opinions on right and wrong than just blindly try to throw around my morals on internet forums.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

I wasn't trying to push my morality onto anyone by saying that not compensating developers (or the people who pay them) for their work is a bad thing to do, any more than you were by saying that one shouldn't support companies that cheat their developers. If morality is relative, it's relative for your own morality as well, not just for other people.

I.e. I find it weird that you'd be willing to cheat (counterfeiting, piracy, etc.) and justify it by claiming that morality is relative, and yet at the same time you have problems with a company cheating their own employees and developers. Why be upset about what they do if you do something very similar?

[TheBlackMask]

I am willing to steal from institutions which I believe are detrimental to society or, in this instance, the game industry.  Just as I believe that the government is broken, so do I believe that publishers have helped break the game industry.

I am only willing to cheat or steal from institutions which have done the same to others.

[Gainsworthy]

Beneath a Steel Sky. Lure of The Temptress. Both free for download. No conditions.

Made me join. Now I'm-a browsing, and I'm-a hunting for some extra mulah to purchase... numerous titles. Namely Abe's Exoddus, when it comes out. Could do with a copy again! I miss it.

[William Broom]

Awesome! I don't see how they're able to give these ones away, but I'm not going to question it.

I've been interested in Beneath a Steel Sky for a long time, if only because of the name. Does anyone know if Lure of the Temptress is worth downloading, too?

[Gainsworthy]

It's 12 Megs. And free. Why not, ey?

Also, this place looks to be rather fantastic, especially as it grows.

[shinygerbil]

Beneath a Steel Sky is officially freeware. That's probably how they've managed to be able to give it away for free. 

[William Broom]

Ok then :D Still glad I was alerted to such a fact, though.

EDIT: Wow, Beneath a Steel Sky is really good. I haven't had a game make me laugh so much for a long time.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

I am willing to steal from institutions which I believe are detrimental to society or, in this instance, the game industry.  Just as I believe that the government is broken, so do I believe that publishers have helped break the game industry.

I am only willing to cheat or steal from institutions which have done the same to others.

Sure, and that's fine. But don't you believe that it's inconsistent for you to say that companies should not cheat their employees, and at the same time object to me saying that people should not pirate games? Both are forms of pushing morals onto others. I admit that saying that it's a bad thing to pirate games is pushing my morals onto others, but you have to likewise admit that saying that it's a bad thing for companies to cheat employees is pushing your morals onto others.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

As an aside, do you have more specific details as to how they cheated them? Because cheating employees can mean a great variety of things.

[mjau]

It's 12 Megs. And free. Why not, ey?

If it's just 12 megs it doesn't include speech, does it?  You can get the 67mb CD version from scummvm.org (play it with scummvm).  http://scummvm.org/downloads.php#extras

[PaleFox]

I think he was referring to Lure of the Temptress, which doesn't have a talkie version (so it's, of course, smaller). From the file size I'd say GoG's Beneath a Steel Sky does, in fact, have speech.