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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperPlaytestingMagic Kid
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Terry
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« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2007, 01:55:58 PM »

I'm not sure if I like that approach... Maybe you should consider if the whole aim and shoot with the mouse is something that's going to work? It can be kinda tricky to do right and it isn't as much fun as a standard jump and run, IMO. If you abandon that, then you can use Z to jump and x to shoot, and it would be dead easy to jump while in the hat (you could just hold down while you jump).

Or maybe not. It depends where you're going with the whole card shooting thing, heh.
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Melly
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« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2007, 02:38:46 PM »

Thinking about my idea again, I don't see an issue with too many keys being pressed at once.

Lets take jumping onto that small opening right at the start in order to get to the doors: You'd tap 'up' twice in order to double jump, and while you're on the apex of the jump you'd press and hold 'down', ducking in the hat, then you'd press and hold 'right' to enter the opening. You only need two buttons being pressed at once (down and right), any other action being done with the mouse that doesn't conflict with keyboard keys.
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Zaphos
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« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2007, 03:08:39 PM »

Thinking about my idea again, I don't see an issue with too many keys being pressed at once.

Lets take jumping onto that small opening right at the start in order to get to the doors: You'd tap 'up' twice in order to double jump, and while you're on the apex of the jump you'd press and hold 'down', ducking in the hat, then you'd press and hold 'right' to enter the opening. You only need two buttons being pressed at once (down and right), any other action being done with the mouse that doesn't conflict with keyboard keys.
The question you really want to answer is not "can the player work around the keyboard limitation and find a way to avoid pressing 3 keys at once?"  But rather, "can we design the control scheme to never give the player a reason to press 3 buttons at once?"  Ideally the limitations of the keyboard should never surface to make your game feel unresponsive -- the player should not need to be conscious of them.  If there's a reason for the player to want to hold W and S and D all at once -- for example, to jump and move right while in the hat -- it's problematic.  Furthermore, if people have to press two keys in quick succession, they often don't fully release one before pressing the other, so asking them to press W and then S in quick succession might lead them to press W and S simultaneously.
Of course, there are other considerations in picking a control scheme which may out-weight these, so it's not an absolute criteria for rejecting a scheme.  Just something to keep in mind!

I'm not sure how to buy keyboards that don't have these limitations; it's my understanding that really old keyboards might not have this issue, but it's the norm for current consumer keyboards.  To some extent you can take advantage of the manufacturers' tendency to design keyboards for word processing, so, for example, Shift+W+D is much more likely to work than W+S+D.
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« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2007, 04:16:44 PM »

Plus, how the hell are you going to press both Up AND Down if you've got a Joypad? Huh?
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Oracle
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« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2007, 05:43:39 PM »

Zaphos;
First of all, thank you so much for the great input; ill adress everything particulary


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    * Doors are collectible items?  That's really odd ...

Keys are collectables, doors/locks simply open up/dissapear, some animations are missing tho, but for the effect of the demo, i think it gets the point across.

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    * Controls don't feel quite responsive because of dead zones where they don't work -- like the jump key doesn't seem to double jump as the character is falling downwards, and the "go into hat" / duck key doesn't work while moving.

Noted!, and i just finished fixing that.

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    * It was odd to me that the duck key didn't toggle ducking; the idea that you right click to un-duck isn't intuitive to me.

Unfortunaly, its the next best thing i found... i tried some of the configs that Melly and Terry sugested, but unfortunaly, Mellys doesnt work as an all around alternative, and Terrys Z/X keys + Directional (was my original intention with the game) doesnt let me implement the gameplay like i want it.

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    * It might help to have a different animation for throwing the cards in a more upwards direction -- the animation seems a bit disconnected from the throw when I throw upwards.
    * Also, an animation for throwing backwards, for when I run one way and throw the other ... or, actually, perhaps a 'running backwards' animation would be even better in this case.

Actually, i thought about this myself, and even tho, it might require quite a bit of remaking + some extra art, i think ill add it when i have a bit of spare time...tho, as it is right now, i dont feel like it takes much away from the game...does it?

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    * On that note, when I stand still and throw, if I've been running and the cursor was behind me I don't turn around to face where I'm throwing.

    * The timing on card throws seems slightly off -- the second card seems to sometimes come out too quickly, sometimes too slowly, and then after that it's at a regular pace.  I can see this getting confusing as people tough enemies where the number of cards hitting them is really important, so even though it's really small it would be good to fix.

Thanks, i noticed this myself, and im looking into it...dont really know whats causing it.

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    * Not sure if this is something you're planning already or not, but anyway it might help to make a more vibrant world if you put small animations (not too much -- just a few frames) on background elements like the flowers and grass.  Just (for example) swaying in the wind, that kind of thing.  For kicks you could also have more elaborate animations, but they should be randomly triggered (don't want the background to become too distracting).

Yeah, thanks a bunch for the suggestion, im actually planning to have subtles animations all around the scenery, like small creatures, butterflies, fireflies and stuff acording to the enviroment...actually you can already see the flower on the background moves. Im not sure about the elaborated animations randomly triggered...but i was thinking of some reaction of the enviroment on the player.
Tho, im trying to keep focused, i dont want this to become overly complicated.


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    * You absolutely want sound effects, but I'm sure you know that already!

Absolutely, music and sound effects, integral part of the game, however im outsourcing that line of work to my little brother, i hope to have the theme of the forest zone included in the next build.

Again, your input was fantastic, thank you so much, and i expect to correct the problems you mentioned and include your suggestions.

Quote
Thinking about my idea again, I don't see an issue with too many keys being pressed at once.

Lets take jumping onto that small opening right at the start in order to get to the doors: You'd tap 'up' twice in order to double jump, and while you're on the apex of the jump you'd press and hold 'down', ducking in the hat, then you'd press and hold 'right' to enter the opening. You only need two buttons being pressed at once (down and right), any other action being done with the mouse that doesn't conflict with keyboard keys.

Melly;
I tried to implement your configuration and works fine in open spaces (like entering that tight passage on the demo), however, inside tight spaces, trying to jump and enter the hat in mid air is right near impossible since you collide with the platform above...So im afraid im discarding that config.

Jimbob: I dont plan to include Joypad unless...well the control scheme returns to basics, and i drop the mouse control.

Terry: Like i said to Jimbob, i dont think ill enable that control scheme (tho the very first version was built around that system) hopefully its for the best!

Thanks everyone for the great critique; keep it comming!

Im not posting the fixed version without the deadzone...as i want to wait until i have something with and extra oomph! for you guys to test out.
Hopefully ill have something this week tho.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2007, 05:45:41 PM by Oracle » Logged
Zaphos
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« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2007, 06:27:39 PM »

First of all, thank you so much for the great input; ill adress everything particulary
No problem -- glad it's helpful Smiley

Quote
Actually, i thought about this myself, and even tho, it might require quite a bit of remaking + some extra art, i think ill add it when i have a bit of spare time...tho, as it is right now, i dont feel like it takes much away from the game...does it?
Yep, it's a relatively minor thing I think.

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Tho, im trying to keep focused, i dont want this to become overly complicated.
Yeah -- definitely focus on the rest of the game before spending too much time with silly background elements!

Quote
Im not posting the fixed version without the deadzone...as i want to wait until i have something with and extra oomph! for you guys to test out.
Hopefully ill have something this week tho.
I'll look forward to it Grin  (Don't neglect your finals, though! :D)
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Oracle
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« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2007, 05:43:35 PM »

Okay guys....im half dead with all those finals, and more comming along next week!
Tho, i managed to wip this out today, and even managed to attend this game conference that some guys from EA gave at my university the other day! (it was my first, there arent much of those around here)

Anywho, this is a simple demo, tho, its a little more fleshed out...a lot its missing still, but you kinda see where this is headed Smiley

http://distractionware.com/oracle/Magic%20Kid%20leveldemo.zip
All input is greatly apreciated and i hope you like it!!


« Last Edit: November 10, 2007, 05:48:19 PM by Oracle » Logged
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« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2007, 04:26:15 AM »

Hi!

I played that stage demo. I really liked the graphic style Smiley And it's was quite funny to play. I think I passed all, until I got the cape :D. I think this game have a lot of potential.

Know, I will talk about some things you may consider to improve.

One thing I didn't like is the way you control the scroll. The player is always in the center of the "camera", so, when I jump, all the world moves down and up. This is something quite anoying Tongue I think will be better to move the world only when you walk some steps after the center, and the same thing when you go up or down.

I also found some small things that I think you could fix:
- When I'm stopped, and a moving plataform comes near me, it catches me.
- I would like the coins (after killing a monster) go up a bit and not down directly. Will be easy to catch then when you kill flying monsters and you are in a plataform.
- In the tree, I can walk "in the air" in some points of the plataforms.
- The weapon not always launch the bullet to the position I want (sometimes it's a bit down or up of the point).
- I would like to be able to quit the magic cape with righ click of the mouse (the same button to put it). I know pressing down the player quits it, but I think would be better to have it in the same button.

PS: Sorry for my bad english.




« Last Edit: November 13, 2007, 05:58:12 AM by Loover » Logged
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« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2007, 05:17:39 AM »

Very interesting game, although I have to admit that the controls are a little counter-intuitive.  Beyond that, however, you have a nice engine on your hands - something I'm looking forward to playing, if it ever becomes fully complete.  The graphical style, agreed, is very beautiful, and suits the game well; it'll be nice to see the final product. 
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Oracle
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« Reply #29 on: November 18, 2007, 09:13:22 PM »

Thanks for the nice input guys, im caught on the middle of some finals until the end of december...so i dont know how much i can update, but ill respond properly during this week!

Thanks again for trying it out, and of course for giving that precious input!
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« Reply #30 on: November 25, 2007, 06:12:52 AM »

Magic Kid is simply evil. He just walks up to friendly animals, kills them and loot their money... Wink

Seriously, I'd work on the basic concepts to make the player feel like the good guy and not some evil magician out for destruction. On teh otehr hand that would be interesting to do Wink

Gameplay wise, I don't see why you would need to aim with the mouse. We can easily align the kid with the other characters so shooting with a button wouldn't be much of a problem.

The jumping would need some refinement too. I just posted something in the pixel warrior thread, you could take a look. 

I'd personaly put the jumping action on a sperate button and keep the up arrow for something else, such as ladder climbing, door entering, hat throwing, magic using or anythign you might think of.  I feel like the jumping mapped on the up arrow is not very intuitive and isn't easy to use. 

Well, keep us noticed of further dev and good luck with the exams. I know your at law school... What are the exams? The basic courses or the bar?

Later!
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