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[Hayden Scott-Baron]

http://deadpanda.com/lj/forum/hires-sparklequest.jpg
You can do a high res game with most of the qualities of a low res game. Of course, this sort of thing won't be received as well around here.

The problem with high resolution artwork is that lots of people suddenly forget the fundamentals of artwork itself. Detail consistency is the biggest problem, but also use of contrast often goes out of the window, and... yeah.  For example, unfortunately, I find that Kilgore screenshot to be horrible, but it has nothing to do with its resolution. It doesn't argue 'against' high res for me, it just tells me that this is handled in this fairly typical manner.

However, certainly, pixel art has a charm to it. However, quite often it is just used because it is the done thing, or it matches their influences more closely.

[Μarkham]

The problem with high resolution artwork is that lots of people suddenly forget the fundamentals of artwork itself. Detail consistency is the biggest problem, but also use of contrast often goes out of the window, and... yeah.  For example, unfortunately, I find that Kilgore screenshot to be horrible, but it has nothing to do with its resolution. It doesn't argue 'against' high res for me, it just tells me that this is handled in this fairly typical manner.

This isn't really an issue with resolution, but more of an issue of jumping straight to putting in detail before getting in the overall composition of the piece.  It's just as easy to make bad pixel art as it is bad "high resolution" art.  A good pixel artist should be able to pick up a new medium and create something that looks nice, with a little practice, and vice versa.

[Hayden Scott-Baron]

This isn't really an issue with resolution, but more of an issue of jumping straight to putting in detail before getting in the overall composition of the piece.  It's just as easy to make bad pixel art as it is bad "high resolution" art.  A good pixel artist should be able to pick up a new medium and create something that looks nice, with a little practice, and vice versa.

Precisely this. Managing the balance of detail is something which is entirely fundamental in film, photography and painting. 

The thing with pixel art is people are quite familiar with many of its methods, or are content to keep screenshots open and take heavy inspiration.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

I guess I missed this thread back in Sept somehow.

Pixel art along with chiptunes are the best of the retro fetishes to me, in that they're not *only* an outdated retro fetish the way scanlines or Atari 2600 beeps are, but are still things that can be appropriate for many games.

However, I've a pet peeve against *bad* pixel art. I like good pixel art. Using fewer pixels isn't an excuse to do a shoddy job of it, and plenty of indie games have bad pixel art, more than those that have good pixel art. Even several well-known and otherwise excellent indie games have bad pixel art, like Gibbage.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Another pet peeve is dithering in pixel art. It does not make pixel art look better, it just makes it look outdated and is a relic from when fewer colors were allowed. One of the artists I make games with loves dithering, but I hate it.

[Peevish]

I work in very, VERY low resolution sprites, when I do spriting at all. Generally, making a 100x100 pixel drawing is much like making a larger drawing, but reduced. But when you're making a character that is 11 pixels tall and 7 pixels at the widest frame of the walk cycle, you are not even drawing anymore. Every pixel is being placed very deliberately; one pixel represents a hand, two pixels represent eyes.

I have trouble when the sprites get above maybe 30 pixels tall because the technique changes. I'm not placing each pixel individually, I'm trying to draw a line. Low-res pixeling, I can't get any expressiveness with their faces, so personality comes through body language. I like the look and I'm good at it. But I can't DRAW a human to save my life.

What I'm saying is, unless you want to make a weird argument for pointillism, below a certain resolution pixel art is an art form that doesn't exist anywhere else.

[Hayden Scott-Baron]

The sprites in Lemmings are a good example of pixel art in one of its truest forms, but at a certain resolution there isn't really much scope for new expression.

[Seth]

Another pet peeve is dithering in pixel art. It does not make pixel art look better, it just makes it look outdated and is a relic from when fewer colors were allowed. One of the artists I make games with loves dithering, but I hate it.

dithering can be effective if used well

http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/9461.htm
http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/7006.htm#

[Ivan]

I think the reason that pixelart tends to be more pleasing to the eye is because it's an abstraction which breaks up the image into elements that are easier to parse. I think that the more that's going in a particular visual signal, the harder it is to process. Also, through the accepted pixelart techniques, it sets up a sort of pre-defined set of rules through which to parse the image, which might account for the fact that pixelart is fairly niche, even considering its video-game pedigree.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Another pet peeve is dithering in pixel art. It does not make pixel art look better, it just makes it look outdated and is a relic from when fewer colors were allowed. One of the artists I make games with loves dithering, but I hate it.

dithering can be effective if used well

http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/9461.htm
http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/7006.htm#

I'd have to compare a dithered and a non-dithered version of the same drawings -- I mean, yes, those look very good, but I don't really know if they look *better* than they would if they just used more colors instead of dithering to fake in-between colors. It's possible they'd look better that way.

[Glaiel-Gamer]

Try to back it up all you want, but the only reason why people do pixel art is for nostalgia.

Also it's ridiculous that you're trying to say vector art can't look good because all the amateurs doing flash games make bad games with vector art. That has nothing to do with the art style.

I much much much prefer vector art to pixel art. I think it's a lot easier to add character and style to vector art or high res sprites, and I think everyone's pixel art looks so much like a homage to older games that it's tough to find an original pixel art style that wouldn't be just as effective as high res.

If you think vector art can't look good:
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/480006
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/459147
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/415976
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/334324
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/290631

For a lot of those you might have to change the quality to high (in the right click menu or by pressing q) since I tend to default to medium quality for those with slow machines.

There's a lot of absolutely wonderful vector art out there, stuff that's easily identifiable to the person who made it. With pixel art, if you showed me 100 pixelated characters, I would have a lot of trouble grouping them by artist based on their style.

[Seth]

Closure - neat, but looks like sketchy two color pixel art with lighting effects
Aether - These graphics I like, though I wouldn't pick it as an example of how far vector art can go
Nutcracker - I don't find these graphics to be appealing in the slightest
Aqua Slug - ...seriously? especially compared to Metal Slug?
NightStrike - this looks good

Is it the case with all vector art that it has to look cartoony?  Because honestly even with these examples vector art doesn't seem any less generic than pixel art.

There's a lot of absolutely wonderful vector art out there, stuff that's easily identifiable to the person who made it. With pixel art, if you showed me 100 pixelated characters, I would have a lot of trouble grouping them by artist based on their style.

I don't think I'd have any trouble with this, I remember once flipping through a copy of Nintendo Power and looking at a screenshot and thinking "Hmm, that looks a lot like Tsugumo's stuff" and sure enough it was.  And his style isn't even very distinctive.  Looking throughout pixeljoint just now (after not having been following the pixel community for some time) I had no trouble recognizing a lot of the artists

I'd have to compare a dithered and a non-dithered version of the same drawings -- I mean, yes, those look very good, but I don't really know if they look *better* than they would if they just used more colors instead of dithering to fake in-between colors. It's possible they'd look better that way.

That's a bit of a silly argument, considering even if we had examples of both undithered and dithered we could always say "well, if the person was just better at using dithering/not using dithering, it's possible it'd look better."  In any case the Monsoon2D one only achieves it's grainy effect by using dithering, that texture (regardless if you like it or not) wouldn't be possible without dithering.

[Μarkham]

Is it the case with all vector art that it has to look cartoony?  Because honestly even with these examples vector art doesn't seem any less generic than pixel art.

Here's some non-generic vector art (once you get past the pre-loader...)

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

At first I thought it was just the opening scene to a game, but it was an entire short movie, nice. That was probably the best Flash movie I've seen.

[Xion]

Adam Philips is awesome. You should totally check out his other stuff if you're unfamiliar - it's totally rad.

[Hayden Scott-Baron]

If you think vector art can't look good:
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/334324

Unfortunately, to me, the artwork in this game is pretty poor. I think it's competent and the game itself it a nicely coded clone, but from an artwork perspective I think this represents is typical of flash games, and it's a look I'm very keen to avoid when I make games.

It's not the fault of the medium, however. It's just sloppiness on the part of the artist. For example, the line width consistency is all over the place, even from one character to another - often a result of working on them seperately. The grey used for the strokes on the clouds is low contrast against the sky, and is a much warmer and incompatible tone. Most of all, the most common thing with flash games like this is the large areas of no interesting content, which is the same problem that Kilgore has. Glaiel-Gamer , I hope you don't take offense - I actually think this is very good, but it unfortunately demonstrates a lot of the weaknesses of typical flash artwork.

It's not the fault of flash or vectors though, it's just a knock on effect of the production methods more than anything. Without the constraints of pixels people need to take greater care of things like size, scale and detail.

[Peevish]

In summation:

Pixel art is a style that some people like.

Vector art is a style that some people like.

Nostalgia can factor into pixel art but does not define it.

Cartooniness can factor into vector art but does not define it.

Let's all have a glass of water before the blood pressure gets high, m'kay?

[Glaiel-Gamer]

It's not the fault of the medium, however. It's just sloppiness on the part of the artist. For example, the line width consistency is all over the place, even from one character to another - often a result of working on them seperately.  

Actually Aqua Slug was probably a bad choice to pick, since we did the whole thing in 2 weeks for a contest

[Hayden Scott-Baron]

Actually Aqua Slug was probably a bad choice to pick, since we did the whole thing in 2 weeks for a contest

It certainly is an ironic choice, given how detailed Metal Slug's artwork is. It was the only one of your links that I clicked on though, I didn't take time to look at the others as I figured it was indicative.

[Joseph]

...unfortunately, I find that Kilgore screenshot to be horrible, but it has nothing to do with its resolution...

Ouch man ouch
All I can say is that that is an old screenshot and i've been working on improving it since then.

eh whaddya think about this one? the character is drawn in flash and the bg is photoshop