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TIGSource ForumsPlayerGamesUsing Flash for Indie Games?
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Μarkham
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« Reply #140 on: April 11, 2009, 12:45:02 PM »

Wasn't Castle Crashers made in Flash, combined with an interpreter for XBLA?
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John Nesky
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« Reply #141 on: April 11, 2009, 12:48:57 PM »

If you want to earn money for a game, charge for it. (You can do this with Flash! AIR is one way)

If you want to filter out the people who don't really care from your community, create some barrier-to-entry. If not money, any artificial barrier will do. Like, maybe they can't comment until 24 hours after requesting an account. If they still care enough to comment after 24 hours, then great. Barriers-to-entry are not hard to create! (though frequently they are made by accident...)

Flash is extremely flexible. You just have to think outside the box.
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Corpus
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« Reply #142 on: April 11, 2009, 01:06:02 PM »

Wasn't Castle Crashers made in Flash, combined with an interpreter for XBLA?

No. Dan Paladin uses Flash as an art tool, simply because the appearance of the flash brush defines his whole style. The game engine was not made in Flash.
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neue
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« Reply #143 on: April 11, 2009, 05:24:26 PM »

<rant>
It's always amazed me just how incredibly unreasonable some of these players can be regarding bugs, imbalance and so on for a game THEY GOT FOR FREE! It's like because they spent five minutes playing the game now the developer owes them an immediate bugfix. It's exactly like a spoiled child with little concept of "No". How do you teach them? Well, you have to charge. Only then will my milkshake bring all of the boys to the yard... To play my games.
</rant>

Just because you make something for free doesn't remove you from any possible criticism, theres countless A* free games out there and unless your game is also close to that level then really people are doing you a favour by playing it.
If you had wrote a song and put it on the net for free would you expect people to thank you for it even if its not amazing?
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #144 on: April 11, 2009, 05:26:36 PM »

He said they were unreasonable, and demanding immediate bugfixes, he didn't say people don't have the right to criticize the game.
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Tom Sennett
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« Reply #145 on: April 11, 2009, 06:58:33 PM »

As a recent convert to Flash, (I dig it! I just got my first sponsorship) I kind of see what some dudes are saying about the fickle Flash portal audience.

But come on! Blaming your audience is a cop-out. I make games so that people will play them; I'm not gonna cut up those same people. If they don't feel like sinking more than 30 seconds into my game, whose fault is it? My own. I don't have a marketing team and mainstream press coverage to make sure people know what's in my game and why it's worth playing. I have a 30 second blind trial by someone gracious enough to waste their valuable browsing time.

If you have a great game and you think no one's giving it a chance, the solution is not "put up more barriers to entry". Criminy, why would you want less people playing your game? What you need to do is make sure that person willing to give you 30 seconds has a hell of a time immediately. If you have a great game, make them play it right away.

I'm of the opinion that content makers should never waste an audience's time, whether money's involved or not. And I don't think you can get outraged at the typical Flash portalite who feels the same way.
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John Nesky
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« Reply #146 on: April 11, 2009, 07:38:31 PM »

For the record, I think the "barrier to entry" thing is an appropriately silly solution to a silly complaint. Though it could be valid depending on the situation and severity. I mean, that's basically what CAPTCHAs are. And I wasn't suggesting putting this barrier in front of actually playing the game, I was only suggesting putting it in front of getting involved in the community.

My own games have a similar barrier: They don't make it clear how to contact me. You have to go to my website and find my contact page. My game Forklift Kid gets hundreds of plays per day and actually links directly to my website, but hardly anyone bothers to contact me about it.  The people who DO contact me care about the game and thus are not wasting my time.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2009, 07:43:30 PM by John Nesky » Logged
Terry
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« Reply #147 on: April 11, 2009, 07:54:57 PM »

As a recent convert to Flash, (I dig it! I just got my first sponsorship)

Hey, congrats Smiley
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astrospoon
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« Reply #148 on: April 11, 2009, 08:08:23 PM »

What is the scoop with AIR exactly? Anyone have experience with this or any other "make Flash standalone app" Apps?

I was considering doing my next interactive story book this way, because it would be so compatible and easily portable, but I have read bad things about Flash and full screen (higher) resolutions, so I have avoided it so far.
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Craig Stern
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« Reply #149 on: April 11, 2009, 08:23:28 PM »

I used AIR for a document player program I created in Flash. It works fine, from my experience.
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aeiowu
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« Reply #150 on: April 11, 2009, 10:54:21 PM »

But come on! Blaming your audience is a cop-out. I make games so that people will play them; I'm not gonna cut up those same people. If they don't feel like sinking more than 30 seconds into my game, whose fault is it? My own. I don't have a marketing team and mainstream press coverage to make sure people know what's in my game and why it's worth playing. I have a 30 second blind trial by someone gracious enough to waste their valuable browsing time.

If you have a great game and you think no one's giving it a chance, the solution is not "put up more barriers to entry". Criminy, why would you want less people playing your game? What you need to do is make sure that person willing to give you 30 seconds has a hell of a time immediately. If you have a great game, make them play it right away.

I'm of the opinion that content makers should never waste an audience's time, whether money's involved or not. And I don't think you can get outraged at the typical Flash portalite who feels the same way.
Congrats on the sponsorship! What's 'er name? Let us know when it's out.

Here, just take a step back. Make the games you want to make, but don't kid yourself into thinking you can make whatever game you want to make and it'll do just as well in the Flash market as it would anywhere else. Consoles, Steam, Web, Mobile all of it is very, very different, right down to the portal you put your game on. Of course, if you naturally make games that are conducive to the Flash scene, then you're in the right place, right? But if you're into making some mythical MP RTS MMO with a tech-tree the size of Canada, is Flash still the way to do it just because you'll get millions of players?

I know it seems like I'm blaming my audience and whining, waving my arms in the air, but it's really not the case. I'm blaming myself for not seriously considering if our game was being presented to the right audience. Certainly we considered it, but the whole time we kind of knew in the background... "Yea, our game is pretty hardcore, zero-sum 1on1 real-time stuff based on skill and strategy. hmmm." But it's not like we could change platforms back then. Now we can. And will.

Here's a little tangent I'd like to go on about audience:
Take Matthew Barney, husband to björk and hip video artist that created The Cremaster video series. Here I found one randomly on

. I'll pause while you watch it.

 Blink

So... whatever your opinion is on this kind of art, if you like it, it moves you or you think it's stupid, none of that really matters. You see, he charges $100K for each DVD set. There are a limited number of copies and there are 20 sets. He sells one set to a collector/fan and he makes 2 MILLION DOLLARS minimum. If he released his DVDs on the free market what do you think would have happened? He would have been extremely lucky to make that kind of money during his entire lifetime had he done that.

But this sidetrack isn't about money. Barney has found an audience for his kind of work. Granted he's a "video artist" in the most pretentious sense of the word, but he certainly is smart enough to know that simply releasing his DVD to stores isn't the best idea. Not because it would have led him to the poorhouse, but because nobody would have given a shit. By hiking up the price tag on his DVDs, people take it seriously, they see it as something beyond mere film and start calling it high-art (not completely the reason, but you know what I'm getting at so let's just go with it). Surely there is a much greater divide between something like The Cremaster and modern film than there is between a free game and one that's paid for, but I think the correlation stands true. As I said in my article, it isn't logical (and it certainly isn't fair) but it's the way it is.

Finally, I just want you to know I'm not outraged. None of this is even a fraction of me beating my chest getting all frothy. I'm just putting an opinion out there based on my own experiences. Hell, I'm still working on Flash games and I love doing it. I plan to continue making Flash games, but I wouldn't kid myself into thinking our next big project would do as well* as a free-to-play Flash/Web game as it would in downloadable/console form. I wish I was wrong about this, and maybe I am. I'm open to that, but from where I'm looking right now I don't see this whole relationship going much further when it comes to our "Big Projects" which are the games of love we pour ourselves into when we have enough resources to pull them off. Smaller Flash games are still a labor of love, but they are more like affairs than wife-n-kids type stuff. Nawmean?

As a real sidenote, I just stumbled onto this. If you're interested in maybe checking Unity out here's a neato tutorial series for Flash developers making the jump: http://ethicalgames.wordpress.com/2009/01/14/unity-for-flash-developers-tutorial-1/
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« Reply #151 on: April 13, 2009, 05:07:16 AM »

I think that it's a general principle that people undervalue things and/or take them for granted if they're free. I discovered this early in my freelance career as a graphic designer - paying clients are typically courteous, willing to give you some creative control, pleased with the final product, and respectful of your time. Anyone asking you to do pro bono work is almost inevitably demanding and perfectionistic, and shows no awareness that you a) have other clients who are actually paying you, and b) are doing this as a favor.

Given the sort of "reviews" I see on e.g. Newgrounds, I get the impression that the same is true of games. "not enuf ninjaz 0/10."

There's a reason that we have an expression "don't look a gift horse in the mouth" : It's because it's human nature to do so!
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #152 on: April 13, 2009, 08:08:38 AM »

That clip from the Cremaster Cycle feels as if the actors had no idea what they were doing, even though the actual scenario/screenplay was interesting. If he gets 2 million from each he could probably afford better actors.
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messhof
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« Reply #153 on: April 22, 2009, 03:19:13 PM »

Can flash ever change your computer's resolution? When I scale games fullscreen it slows them down quite a bit..
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Craig Stern
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« Reply #154 on: April 22, 2009, 06:31:49 PM »

Yeah, Flash runs slow if you're running in a projector and you adjust the window size. I don't think Flash has the capability to change screen resolution, but it's possible that some functionality along those lines was added in AS3.
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raiten
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« Reply #155 on: April 22, 2009, 11:49:32 PM »

Yeah, Flash runs slow if you're running in a projector and you adjust the window size. I don't think Flash has the capability to change screen resolution, but it's possible that some functionality along those lines was added in AS3.

It's not in AS3, but I think AIR lets you do this, although I'm not sure.
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Mipe
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« Reply #156 on: April 23, 2009, 11:41:17 PM »

I loathe Flash games, for the controls often jam and there is this annoying beeping, while the character keeps going into one direction - often lethal.
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raiten
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« Reply #157 on: April 24, 2009, 12:16:37 AM »

I loathe Flash games, for the controls often jam and there is this annoying beeping, while the character keeps going into one direction - often lethal.

uh, that must be down to your keyboard, if I'm not mistaken?
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Mipe
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« Reply #158 on: April 24, 2009, 12:20:47 AM »

Uh, sure, that is why I don't have any problems with other games... Oh wait.
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raiten
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« Reply #159 on: April 24, 2009, 12:32:27 AM »

Uh, sure, that is why I don't have any problems with other games... Oh wait.

uh, but there's nothing in Flash that limits how many keys you can press at the same time, and Flash certainly won't beep at you for pressing too many keys...
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