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[moopf]

The iPhone market is a little disturbing with all the 99 cent games, discounted or not.

Only joined here today, but thought I'd wade right in I started developing a puzzler for the iPhone back in July last year, and released it in September, priced $1.99. I treated the whole thing as a learning experience, having never developed in Objective-C before, but with plenty of other programming experience. I hadn't written a game before, however.

It fairly quickly became obvious during the first couple of months after the app store's launch that there was a race to lowest cost, the $0.99 level, by developers because of visibility. There was a massive number of shoddy games released, but there were some real gems as well and there were few ways you could try to get higher visibility on the app store (unless Apple 'picked' you). It got to the point that the only way you could get some visibility was by dropping your price - in part this was an expectation from the consumer who had, and really still do have, a different way of looking at mobile games, especially from indie developers, and also because the developers were competing for visibility. I ended up putting my price to $0.99 (which is where it's stayed) and even did a 'lite' version to see if that made any difference (I still think that for something priced at $0.99, a lite version seems to make no sense at all, but you try anything).

In particular I feel that the shoddy nature of the vast majority of the games really impacted on the willingness on behalf of the consumer to plump over another $0.99 for something they thought they'd probably play for 30 seconds and then think 'what a waste' - that individual purchase may only have been $0.99, but they'd probably purchased 20 of them and found nothing they really liked, so the real gems also suffer. That really led to the influx of lite versions, even for $0.99 apps, as a way to combat that.

But overall I've made a little and did it mainly just because I fancied a challenge, and enjoyed it a heck of a lot.

Some of the same consumer beliefs hold true for the overall topic of this thread - there is a kind of expectation from the consumer that indie games should be dirt cheap, whether because they feel they aren't purchasing something professional or polished or because there is a misguided belief that it couldn't possibly have the depth of a commercial release. I know that's nonsense, as I'm sure do many people here. But that's something that will take time to erode and I see the real widespread success of games such as World of Goo and Braid as really helping to push that erosion along. Like it or not, however, the vast majority of indie titles will be pretty poor and that's why some consumers can end up tainting all indie releases with the same brush, expecting less and expecting to pay less for it. But again, those titles I've mentioned can help to change the consumer's view towards indie titles.

Anyway, that rambling nonsense probably made no sense, just thought I'd put in my couple of pence worth.

[Craig Stern]

Wow. That convinced me: I'm never ever going to try developing anything for the iPhone. It sounds like they have a horrible marketplace.

[JoeHonkie]

Wow. That convinced me: I'm never ever going to try developing anything for the iPhone. It sounds like they have a horrible marketplace.

It's downright terrible.

[moopf]

Wow. That convinced me: I'm never ever going to try developing anything for the iPhone. It sounds like they have a horrible marketplace.

The biggest problem with it is the biggest reason it's been a huge success - it's just there for the consumer, they need go nowhere else. They can access it, purchase and install directly from their device. That's why there has been something like a billion downloads of apps, but that also makes it a nightmare to actually get something seen because you're lost in a single sea and Apple hold all the cards and can pick and choose what they want to push. And that isn't always the best and, increasingly, it's the apps from commercial development houses that get that exposure and so the indies lose out. The hype led to a lot of "developers" jumping on-board, rushing something poor out and the market gets swamped with rubbish, a double-whammy for those indies that take the time to develop something more polished and worthwhile. Look at it now, there are something like 6,500 games I believe. In less that a year since the launch! Expecting visibility on the app store is like doing something in the wind

There has been a growing number of review sites (there were few when the app store was first released) which may make getting some exposure easier but when the marketplace itself is just there, complete with recommendations and highlights from Apple, the majority of consumers probably won't look elsewhere.

So it's a strange situation and for indies I think it's fairly bleak, especially now a greater number of commercial developers are on-board. And that's a real shame as I really enjoyed developing for it and it's got an awesome amount of power for something in your pocket.

[JoeHonkie]

The search and sort algorithms and whole display system on the app store only enhance the problem.  Pretty much the only way to stumble across something you aren't specifically looking for is for it to be a top 50 download, or for it to be a featured app.

Hell, even when you search for stuff, the best results are rarely at the top.  If you search for "apple inc." you actually get 1 apple app at the top and the rest further down underneath a few totally random apps.  Terrible.

EDIT: confusing typo removed.

EDIT2: At least "hiqup" is unique enough to only generate 2 hits (game and demo).  So you have that going for you!

[moopf]

EDIT2: At least "hiqup" is unique enough to only generate 2 hits (game and demo).  So you have that going for you!

Yes, true. For me it wasn't really about making a load of money. The game was really me putting my toes in the water, getting used to XCode and Objective-C and Mac-based dev generally. I knew the game wasn't something truly unique but I did try to make it as professional and polished as I could because I don't really know how to do things any other way (at least, I try). It was amazing, however, how quickly what you thought was a reasonable price for the length of play and experience you gave was blown out of the water The iPhone is an indie dev's dream, the app store however is not. But, it's been so successful, I don't imagine that changing soon.

Anyway, hope this isn't all off-topic, it all does come back to the basic thrust of this thread I think, if limited to a particular marketplace.

[Alex May]

Only 2 search hits could be a problem, not a blessing. You should have called it "Beer Lipstick"

[moopf]

Only 2 search hits could be a problem, not a blessing. You should have called it "Beer Lipstick"

iBeer Lipstick would probably have been better :D

BTW, was playing about with Dyson a little while ago - really impressive, love the overall 'feel' of it.

[Alex May]

Thanks

[JoeHonkie]

Only 2 search hits could be a problem, not a blessing. You should have called it "Beer Lipstick"

The point being if you search for that specific term (the name of the game), nothing else comes up.  I'm not about to search for PUZZLE GAME and try to find his game.  That would be horrible.

[Alex May]

But more people will search for "puzzle game" than "hiqup". Even if the number of people that find it using "puzzle game" is very small, it may still provide more hits on the game than something nobody searches for unless they already know about the game. You want to get more eyeballs on the game, right? So the people who already know about the game's name are already aware of it and shouldn't factor into the equation.

[JoeHonkie]

But more people will search for "puzzle game" than "hiqup". Even if the number of people that find it using "puzzle game" is very small, it may still provide more hits on the game than something nobody searches for unless they already know about the game. You want to get more eyeballs on the game, right? So the people who already know about the game's name are already aware of it and shouldn't factor into the equation.

Yeah, I think I made it pretty clear the search system sucked and you wouldn't find a game without even knowing about it in advance in my previous posts.  I was making a joke about the fact that even if you DO know what you are searching for it can be hard to find usually and that his game at least had a name which wasn't a term anyone else ever uses.

Sheesh.

[Corpus]

Sheesh!

Anyway, moopf, did it never occur to you to release a free demo of the game?

[JoeHonkie]

Sheesh!

Anyway, moopf, did it never occur to you to release a free demo of the game?

That's what the "lite" version is.  Pretty much when you see that on the App store it means demo.

Still buried, though.  I would never have found out about the game if I hadn't looked at his website and found the name.  There's too much stuff to sort through and it's all organized under the category of "game."

[moopf]

Sheesh!

Anyway, moopf, did it never occur to you to release a free demo of the game?

Yeah, as JoeHonkie says it's the lite version. There is a reason why it's called 'lite' as well - Apple forbid you from releasing demos, so you have to release something that's fully functioning but cut down, e.g. I only included a few levels. It's semantics really, and infuriating, but thems the rules you have to play by

[Corpus]

Wow, they don't allow demos? That's bizarre?

But yeah, I think it seems like it doesn't work to think of the App Store as anything other than a transaction system - it's important to advertise your game elsewhere, too.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

The only issue I have with 99c games is that they encourage developers to make short, throw-away games that they don't really care about, and to make as many of them as possible. That's also why I tend to dislike Flash games. The model they're funded on encourages shoddy work rather than long-term craftsmanship. You don't typically see games that people spent 4+ years making in Flash or on the iPhone, whereas you do see that in Game Maker (Iji for instance).

But Cactus is still indie!

But cactus probably cares about even his shortest games though, rather than just making them for a quick buck. He described making games as similar to bearing children in that lecture and all.

[skaldicpoet9]

As a side note, there were almost as many sales of ID during its weekend $5 sale as I've had all year.

That's awesome.

I may have bought it for $5 but I will definitely buy the latest version off of your website when I get the money to do it. It's definitely a great piece of work 

I only played the demo of AudioSurf, and hey, maybe it's just me...but it seemed overpriced to me at $10.  I didn't see any deep or meaningful gameplay, anything to keep my interest longer than half an hour or so. 

Well the thing that I like about Ausiosurf is why I like any game of that type: high score. I play Geometry Wars 2 to try and beat my high score and those that are posted online as well. The same goes for Peggle and other games. I am a score junky, I guess I am a little old-school arcade at heart but I have always liked the challenge of beating a high score. This is why I love shmups too.

Audiosurf is great because I can play a game and just chill out and listen to music which I do a lot anyways in games that aren't even music oriented. Plus if you really like a challenge Audiosurf has a very dense amount of different modes to play for various skill levels which increases the replay value tremendously for me.

We all know though that it is all a matter of preference. However, I think that it is ridiculous if smaller devs cannot make enough money on their games because of the way people expect indie games to be priced. I would have payed $20 for Audiosurf at the very least if that was how much it was.

I just thought of an interesting dilemna though: if indie games do gain more acceptance and become a viable source of money for studios will the "genre" (loosely labeled) be homogenized like so many "mainstream" games are? It could be the same thing that happened to punk rock. You have some really dedicated bands out there who were doing some really great stuff (Pere Ubu, X and others). Then the record companies came in and packaged and commercialized it and now you get crap like Blink-182 and Sum 41.

The thought just makes me shiver. However, crappy music, games or whatever will never kill the spirit of those who are really passionate and dedicated to their craft.

[Fuzz]

Hey, they don't count because they're so muthafuckin' paid. :D

[raiten]

But cactus probably cares about even his shortest games though, rather than just making them for a quick buck. He described making games as similar to bearing children in that lecture and all.

The point I wanted to make is that a game isn't automatically better because it took 4 years to complete. Which you of course know, but it's just I get touchy when people criticize flash in a lopsided manner.