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[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

moi, could you name some examples of what you describe? i can't really think offhand of any games with small sprites and interesting scenery

[moi]

Yes but not right now
I think tiny sprites are cute,I know I know a few games with tiny sprites but I can't remember right now.
BTW this example is not really "tiny"

[Skofo]

The problem is that almost all professional sprite art is found on games with resolutions less than half of the resolution of that game you posted. The sprites on SNES/DS games look so "big" because it is nigh impossible to make them any lower res without making the game look like a confusing mess where you can't tell the player character from a random box.

All about resolution, baby.

[Mipe]

moi, could you name some examples of what you describe? i can't really think offhand of any games with small sprites and interesting scenery

[undertech]

Cannon Fodder is all I can think of atm.

[Chromanoid]

sorry for the Offtopic:
Clonk sprites are small and the game is purest fun.

@jrjellybean: I tested your game. Maybe you could sell it as donationware or maybe you can find a publisher who uses it for a minigame collection. maybe you can just sell it for 5$ and hope for some people who like the game - this way you can "train" selling a game, learn which distribution channels you can use etc.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

moi, could you name some examples of what you describe? i can't really think offhand of any games with small sprites and interesting scenery

coincidentally i was just playing that game recently. but if you look at the size of the plants relative to the screen, they're huge! they're about 1/8th of the screen's width in width, or more. that only supports what i'm saying: that for something to be interesting you need to be able to see it, and you can't see something very well if you can fit 5000 of them on the screen at once. it's not the tiny dot sprites that make the scenery interesting, it's the huge plants.

[weasello]

Hey dudes,

Here's a few pennies from my perspective only.

Your game looks as if it hasn't had any real, silent, random, off-the-street user testing. I could go into a lot of detail here, and I could very well be incorrect, but it is something you should seriously look into before continuing.

No, seriously. I am so goddamn serious right now you don't even

I think most of the comparative comments being made above me here will all be resolved by you doing this.

But I digress. To stay on topic, in regards to price points:

Why not sell it at both?

Excellent strategy that works well. World of Goo was listed for sale at FOUR different price points. Ron knew people who went to his website would have no problem buying for a higher price (as they are likely fans and supporters). He also knew the copy for sale on BigFishGames wouldn't sell if the price went into double-digits. Did the cheaper price at BFG make everyone flock there to purchase it, thus cannabalizing his own sales? Hell no. Most people still aren't even aware what's going on.

Not going to work for you?

Look at bracketing. Look at all the other products for sale in similar locations to yours. A $20 game won't sell on the app store (too expensive) and a $20 game on the shelf at WalMart won't sell (too cheap). It's not a question of what your game is worth, or what you want to get for it. If you set the price incorrectly for your market, your customers will simply not pay. You do have a target market, right?

You think people will come to your website to buy it? NO. THEY WON'T. Again, I could go into detail, but again, I am so goddamn serious right now. You have to put the game up for sale somewhere on a shelf, virtual or otherwise. This can include "viral versions" at portals and such.

From experience: Fantastic Contraption sold for $10. A huge chunk of the game (days of gameplay) was free, and got people hooked. When's the last time you played a flash game for DAYS? Make sure your content is GRIPPING and price accordingly. Nobody else in the industry was, at the time, selling a flash game; we had to shoot in the dark and picked a number. What kind of thought went into that price point? "Well, $20 felt like a big chunk of change. But $10? I don't even worry about it. It's a small amount." It was done completely by feel.

If your game is quite good there is a chance you can make more money on selling the game to a portal (eg: sponsorship) than you ever will in sales. I've made more money than my old-job yearly salary on a single game sale, and the game only took a month to make. Seriously consider this option.

Portal sponsorship not going to cut it? Maybe look into micro-transactions. Though these days, with FarmVille offering $45 items and Three Rings selling $100 "coin packs", they aren't so much "micro" anymore. Asian markets even "rent" you your in-game items so you have to keep re-purchasing them!

But it's hard to rig MT into a game that wasn't designed for it, especially after the fact.

TL;DR Version:

There are a ton of variables depending on your plans. Get some user testing done and price according to your competition.

[bateleur]

@weasello> Superb overview of the issue!

The one thing I think needs emphasising from the above is this: it's easy to focus too much on pricing strategy and forget that the most important factor is game quality. A great game that's a bit underpriced will sell really high volumes and get lots of word-of-mouth recs. A great game that's a bit overpriced can always be discounted later. Mediocre games, on the other hand, don't generally do well at any price.

[Chromanoid]

@weasello> Superb overview of the issue!

The one thing I think needs emphasising from the above is this: it's easy to focus too much on pricing strategy and forget that the most important factor is game quality. A great game that's a bit underpriced will sell really high volumes and get lots of word-of-mouth recs. A great game that's a bit overpriced can always be discounted later. Mediocre games, on the other hand, don't generally do well at any price.

mmh i would say marketing is the most important factor. only very few games are of such a high quality that word-of-mouth-marketing really works out. i agree with you that the right pricing is not that important. pricing might be the driving sale factor in many product categories but i would say that the video game segment highly depends on marketing efforts (at least if you don't sell your game at retail). xblig sales might support that theory (the A GAM3 W1TH Z0MB1E5 soundtrack is in my opinion a wonderful marketing strategy).
i think the indie game business is all about branding and marketing just like in the big game industry.

[AuthenticKaizen]

from a design point of view the graphics need some work. really...
i think a major problem here is that the colors just dont work together.
it think it would be good if you study the basics about colors:
how they work, their effects, their relationships etc.

im no expert on that topic but consider to check out the following links and maybe get a few books on amazon (or library) on colors.



http://justcreativedesign.com/2008/06/13/how-to-design-learn-the-basics/
http://www.colormatters.com/colortheory.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color
http://www.colourlovers.com/

useful tools
http://kuler.adobe.com/#
http://www.colorblender.com/
http://www.colorjack.com/sphere/
http://www.colorschemer.com/online.html

tailored to web design...might still be useful for you.
Smashing Magazine
Color Theory for Designers (Part 1)
Color Theory for Designers (Part 2)
Color Theory for Designers (Part 3)



also:
weasello has some damn good advice...listen to him!

[Triplefox]

I would suggest reading about the "get out of the building" concept to customer development. Do whatever it takes to find the customers you're looking for, sit down with them, and see them play. This won't always get you feedback about the gameplay, but you'll immediately see that your potential customers are trying to do things with the game that you couldn't have possibly imagined, and you will be able to use their feedback to improve their ability to actually get into the game and (hopefully) start enjoying it in the intended manner. You may find that the market you'll sell better to is not your original market. Stay flexible.

The other part of this is "selling" the look without actually doing anything expensive. It's not there yet, but I think another two weeks of work would go a long way. The feedback I've studied says this: High resolutions and smooth shapes are more attractive unless the user "identifies" with pixel art. "Noisy" detailing that doesn't express additional information is unattractive because it's hard to read - you're actually better off with solid colors, if it comes down to it. ("noise" also includes unnaturally repetitive tiling patterns, "cheap" filter-based textures, etc.) And a little bit of perspective, lighting, coloring, and animation can add a lot - you don't need more than a suggestion.

Here's a list of "fit+finish items" that would help address graphical complaints without requiring a huge additional art investment:

• Tweening animations(make elements scale, glow, pop, slide, etc.)
• Have objects cast shadows. If it's possible, bake a lightmap into the background.
• Cut each tile into four smaller pieces, make 6-8 variations, and procedurally randomize the look of the tiles. Walls can use an alternate procedural method(testing what's nearby) to apply an outline to their shape. This way - you're making smaller pieces of art, it'll have more detail overall, you don't spend any time changing level data to match assets, and the tiling won't feel unnatural anymore. If you can add even a little hint of perspective, that will help too.
• Add effects, trimming, borders, etc. to the font and HUD. The HUD right now has poor legibility - white text on light backgrounds. And put a similar amount of work into the opening menus - those are the first thing the player sees!

On the sound and music front - it needs some work. The cheapest way to make strong original sounds is to learn to use synthesizers and DSP effects(mainly reverb and compression) - there are lots of free, computer-based ways to do this. Music-wise, it's hard to fake good composition. What's there isn't strong enough yet, but you can easily draw themes from MIDIs of classical music, or if you're daring, contemporary works, and piece them together into an original work in a short time. As long as you avoid copying the source material wholesale, this is a reasonably healthy practice and a good way to learn.

[AuthenticKaizen]

good suggestions triplefox 

i recommend also to consider the price elasticity of demand (ped)...
the following scenario is about an elastic price:

for example if you sell your game for 10$ and 100 people buy your game you would have a revenue of 1000$.
on the other hand if you reduce the price by 10% to 9$ the sales might increase to 150 (increase of 50%) which would translate into a revenue of 1350$.

if you would increase the price to 15$ (+50%) and then get 80 sales (-20%) it would make 1200$.

also:
jeff vogel (spiderwebsoftware) follows a high price strategy cause the avernum series fills a niche and his fanbase is gladly willing to pay that price.
(btw he founded his company in 1994)

note:
the figures are totally fictive of course but i hope you understand the point im trying to make:
finding the right price...
and this is done by polishing your game up and then trying different prices.

[Skofo]

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/27628/GDC_Refenes__Saltsmans_Baffling_350_App_Store_Success.php

/thread

[JackieJay]

No offense to the creator but do you actually think your game looks better than Cute Knights (the first one, let alone the last) ?
I can barely understand what's in that screenshot, to be totally sincere it's one of the ugliest games I've ever seen in the last years.

If you want my opinion, keep doing more games, work on them hard, even if it takes you a year or more. Your assumption of "my game is bad but there are worse" is just... wrong.
You can only sell your game when you are sure that your game is the best out there, or at the very least one of the best. Remember people won't see your game the same way you do. Your game might look awesome in your eyes but might look like uter crap by everyone else's standards.
If you don't put all your sweat and dedication into the game you are making it will show and nobody will give a crap about it.

By selling your game, your exchanging money for your hard work. Don't expect to make something in two months that looks and plays like it was someone else's first attempt at making a game and expect a quick buck out of it.

If you were to sell this, even for 5$, I'd be surprised if anyone bought your game.
Just redoing the graphics and getting a slight improvement in the graphics area is far from being enough I'm afraid. If I were you I'd start s new game from scratch and actually put some effort into it. If you lack specific skills, contact someone to help you out.

I might sound like an asshole and perhaps I really am but I wish someone had told me this earlier a few years ago, perhaps I wouldn't have spent my time doing crap games that led me nowhere. I'm glad I realized shortcuts weren't the way to go, I'm sure you'll get there too, sooner or later.

[Skofo]

If you don't put all your sweat and dedication into the game you are making it will show and nobody will give a crap about it.

By selling your game, your exchanging money for your hard work. Don't expect to make something in two months that looks and plays like it was someone else's first attempt at making a game and expect a quick buck out of it.

Did you read what I posted just before you?

[Zenorf]

Wow.

This is a subject I am very interested in finding some kind of answer and after reading the whole thread and associated links I can now confidently say I'm more baffled than I was when I started.

Points of note include.

People generally think that the good apprentice wont sell cause it looks like crap,

But marketing is more important than any other thing.

Other than that everything has heavily conflicting opinions. I guess that's why it's a discussion forum and not a how to.

Oh well. Good luck with your game anyway.

[JackieJay]

If you don't put all your sweat and dedication into the game you are making it will show and nobody will give a crap about it.

By selling your game, your exchanging money for your hard work. Don't expect to make something in two months that looks and plays like it was someone else's first attempt at making a game and expect a quick buck out of it.

Did you read what I posted just before you?

Yeah, two points:
-The iPhone is a completely different market with completely different standards.Also there is way more and better competition in the PC, and you can't find every game for the platform in the same place which means people actually have to find your game so if it isn't good chances are it won't be well known and therefore it will be harder to find and won't sell much.

-That article smells like uter bullshit. Do you really believe 14 people would spend 299$ in a game where all you have to do is "pop vitual pimples" ?

[Christian Knudsen]

It's true that the higher you price something, the more value people will often place on it. However, even in the comments to that article, it's suggested that the people that bought the game for $299 very likely thought it cost $2.99. There's no way to prove this, of course, unless those buyers make a chargeback on their purchase when they discover that they actually paid $299. I can believe that pricing it at $50 brought in some legitimate purchases, though, as that would make it stand out from all the other thousands of iPhone games.

[JackieJay]

I don't believe anyone bought the game for 50$ either.
Before throwing so much money in a game they would at least check out what it's about and see some screenshots. A game where you pop pimples is hardly worth more than one dollar, let alone 50$.
Also I think it's a bit hard to believe that 14 people stumbled upon the game and bought it by mistake, because the group of people that would be willing to pay 2,99$ for it is already very small and it would take a huge stroke of luck to have 14 people misreading the part where the price is listed. That could be an explanation, but given the fantasist nature of the rest of the article it's impossible for me to believe it.
In addition, I think the price in the app store is listed as 299.00 which makes misreading pretty much impossible.