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[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Isn't he the guy who sued somebody because mowing the lawn is like a nature massacre?

Honest question, I'm just not sure if it's the same guy.

no, from what i remember, the community sued *him* because he didn't want to mow his lawn and his neighbors wanted him to

[Oddbob]

I think he has already proved that he is very good at, you know, selling hot air.

Jesting aside, one of the things that always struck me as odd about Rohrer was his ability to make the facts fit his worldview as opposed to his worldview wrapping around the facts. Some of the debates on the old IG left me perplexed at the end of them because no matter how much evidence you could pile up in opposition to his stance Rohrer would always argue that the pieces of the mental jigsaw he'd put together in his head were the one true reality and he'd read books to prove it. Erm, okay.

I came away from reading the now infamous interview with a similar feeling that it's pretty much how he views the world in every aspect. If it doesn't fit, he'll try and make it fit. The grass being a silly but extreme example of this. Stuff your social norms - this is how I want it to be and how it will be. I found it a tad uncomfortable a read in many respects because of the distinct lack of empathy for anyone other than himself and his own.

In light of which, I think he'll actually be very successful as a tool. It's almost the perfect job because you're essentially asked to bend the world to a whim with advertising, something he's proven rather exceptionally good at.

Do I care that he's in advertising? Not especially, but then aside from the odd moments of idle curiosity and the odd internet clash in the past, I've never really found much time for him anyway. One momentary flash of his Passage that impressed me isn't going to make up for all the ridiculous obsessive shouting at Ebert for no good reason, the bizarre-o view of art history that his books taught him and after the fine display of childishness on these boards which were a tad erm 5 year old ish? Pfft. Good luck to him.

His heart is clearly with himself and long may he prosper at whatever he chooses to do.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

it's not odd to fit facts to one's worldview rather than vice versa, that's how everyone lives. he may just be exceptionally skilled at it, but it's a characteristic of the brain, not him particularly -- intelligent people in general also tend to be the best at rationalizations

i did come up with the not budging an inch a bit of that in my discussions with him. occasionally i talk to him over email. we had one discussion over whether the visual art of a game can be artistically significant for instance -- he didn't think it did. still, not much different from most people, very few people ever give an inch in any of their beliefs.

he reminds me a lot of chris crawford actually, and has that same type of nobility/stubbornness, of sticking to principles even in the face of the apocalypse; the two apparently met at the gdc and got on well together. i think it's just a personality style, i don't think there's anything particularly awful about interpreting all sensory data into a complex system of abstractions, though i do think there are inherent problems in systems of abstractions and that the world will always be more complex than such systems can handle

[Oddbob]

I think there's a difference between interpreting something differently - which is what most people do, and assuming that your way is the 100% correct way of thinking and expecting other people to adhere to that and screaming and shouting when they don't.

See raging against an old man who did nothing worse than have a different opinion as Example #1 here.

[Movius]

Well you know. Infant urine alone won't fund a jungle paradise

[Alex May]

Is it cliché yet to quote Bill Hicks?

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

I think there's a difference between interpreting something differently - which is what most people do, and assuming that your way is the 100% correct way of thinking and expecting other people to adhere to that and screaming and shouting when they don't.

See raging against an old man who did nothing worse than have a different opinion as Example #1 here.

i think it's a difference in degree, not kind

could you link to that example? i don't actually remember what rohrer said about ebert or where/when

Is it cliché yet to quote Bill Hicks?

no, because i don't know who bill hicks is

[Alex May]

and the classic

[pgil]

Is it cliché yet to quote Bill Hicks?

Yes, it is....


Oh. Too late.

[Alex May]

 

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

hadn't seen those. i agree w/ the sentiment but i still think the issue is what's advertised, not advertising itself -- there's advertising for pepsi and taco bell and arsenic babyfood, and there's advertising for solar panels and vitamins and exercise equipment. presumably rohrer wouldn't advertise for a product he thinks is harmful

[Alex May]

I should think he'll advertise whatever the heck Tool want him to advertise

[AdamAtomic]

Jeez you guys, have any of YOU ever worked for the advertising industry?  It's fucking AWESOME compared to the game industry.  They pay 5-10x more for the same work and are WAY more flexible and open to creative ideas than any game company I've ever worked for.  The second I run out of iPhone money i'm going RIGHT back to advertising because it subsidizes at least 60% of my game dev time through working on fun projects with talented people.

So y'all can fuck off, bunch of highbrow pricks.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

I should think he'll advertise whatever the heck Tool want him to advertise

we'll see i guess / time will tell

even major advertising groups often refuse to advertise things they disagree with (often guns, cigarettes, alcohol, porn, etc.)

[Alex May]

Jeez you guys, have any of YOU ever worked for the advertising industry?  It's fucking AWESOME compared to the game industry.  They pay 5-10x more for the same work and are WAY more flexible and open to creative ideas than any game company I've ever worked for.  The second I run out of iPhone money i'm going RIGHT back to advertising because it subsidizes at least 60% of my game dev time through working on fun projects with talented people.

So y'all can fuck off, bunch of highbrow pricks.

1. My dislike for advertising is independent of my choice of occupation. It stems from being pissed off by adverts in general, and seeing how susceptible people are to them. I really don't care how much it pays. I wouldn't take money doing something I know will piss people like me off. If you like adverts and being affected by adverts, then there's no reason not to work in advertising. I just think it stinks I'm quite hardline/unreasonable on this, though, I realise that. Most people will be fine to be in the middle ground and be fairly reasonable about it.
2. It's not high brow to dislike advertising, I'm quite certain it takes a great deal of thought to be good at that type of thing.

[Alex May]

Point is that I find it a little odd that someone so culturally independent would do something that is very much a commercial thing. But maybe it works out anyway, he's still living life the way he wants to and being unaffected by it, maybe it's like sticking a little money tap on the bottom of that industry and turning it on Dunno

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

think of it more positively: would you rather have jason rohrer creating the ads you see, or some typical advertising major? at least he'll be *replacing* someone else who would make more harmful / annoying / less thoughtful ads

as an analogy, i'm against schools, i don't think they should exist (either public or private), but i at least am happy when i hear about good people going into teaching rather than bad people, because at least they'll be one less harmful teacher out there

[AdamAtomic]

Trying to argue that advertisement is moral is kind of a crazy approach, because A, it justifies judging another indie developer on moral grounds still, and B, advertising is fucking devious and evil.

I despise advertisement - I'm the guy who mutes the commercials obsessively and can't stand seeing commercial logos in the middle of movies because they're so distracting (FUCK YOU, TRANSFORMERS).

BUT...if you want to eat food and have a TON of free time to do whatever you want, it's really hard to beat ad companies' budgets.  They have WAY too much money, and NO idea what to do with it.  They will part with massive quantities and let you make fairly kickass games, and then you can use the buckets of leftover money to make whatever you want for the rest of the year, and you can even include the work you did for them in your portfolio.  Sometimes it even gets covered by cool blogs and you meet new friends.

So yes, in ways it does run counter to my morals...but the ends justify the means 10x over in this particular case in my particular experience!

[AdamAtomic]

I'm quite certain it takes a great deal of thought to be good at that type of thing.

 :D

[Lurk]

Rohrer's taking care of his family. As long as they don't accept 'principles' as a barter currency, people will have to go again'st their core values sometimes: it does'nt mean you don't have them anymore, just that you leave them at home when you leave in the morning, because you don't want them to see you crying