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[Don Andy]

So I recently fired up Weird Worlds - Return to Infinite Space again and I'm sort of surprised there seems to be nothing like a wiki or other kind of website dedicated to it. I mean, every roguelike these days has at least a cheap wikia listing all the items and hidden stuff in it.

I mean, it's pretty old, yes, but is it really that obscure?

[PDF]

I don't think it was a roguelike, actually. I would say it was just a strategy game with procedurally generated levels. Maybe it was too random (or too easy), or maybe it just did not deserve a wiki?

[Radix]

Anything you would want to know is plain text in the data files, isn't it?

Apart from that, yeah, I think it's just such a straightforward game that there wouldn't be much to a wiki, just an items list and a few spoilers about the special missions.

[Don Andy]

Yeah, I guess you guys have a point there. Didn't know about the plain text though.

[Tanner]

Oh man, this game is one of my favorites.
Definitely a classic.

[Derek]

Great idea, great graphics, slick interface... but too easy and random was how I felt about it, too.  It didn't take many plays for me to figure out the items you needed for maximal success, and whether you got those items depended a lot on luck.

 

It's unfortunate, I really wanted to like it.

[Don Andy]

I'm in much of the same boat, although I love spending a few minutes on a playthrough or two now and then. It's the closest thing to a spaceship roguelike I have right now.

The only thing still bugging me is that I still can't figure out whether I stand a chance in a fight or if they will hopelessly obliterate me. It's mostly the latter.

[Nektonico]

One of my favourite indie games. A very good concept, that could be greatly expanded upon i think (more content / randomization i mean). I swear when i got it back in the day i was addicted to it, those 15 minute sessions always left me wanting one more playthrough. Still, it doesnt take long to exhaust all gameplay situations it has to offer.
If you want extra info about it you have this one FAQ
http://www.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/926215/42753

[Waltorious]

I agree completely... I think it really just needs more content (more items, things to find, etc.) and maybe some rebalanced combat so there aren't only a few kill-all weapons with the rest being mostly useless.  The game's a lot of fun until you realize you've seen everything, which doesn't take that long.  I'd like to see the basic concept expanded into a bigger game with some more tactical decisions and a lot more stuff to find.  Individual sessions could still be short, the idea being that each one would be pretty different because there would be a different subset of the total number of items in the game that was available for that specific playthrough.

I don't mean to knock the game too much though... I love the concept behind it, I just wanted more.

[Lyx]

I dont think that making weird worlds more complex would work out well. Its main appeal IS that is a SIMPLE coffeebreak game with high replayability. However, "trivial complexity" would add variety... for example, having more different planets and lifeforms with (important!) funny descriptions would add replayability. The other problem of it, as already mentioned, is that ship upgrades are mainly hierachical, rather than tactical.

So, i dont really think that the concept itself needs modification - it is already optimal. It just needs more story-based variety and equipment which is less about "leveling up" and more about "what would be tactically useful in the currently generated world".

[Radix]

Mods prop it up a fair bit. There are a couple of themed ones which are fun (I liked the Bablylon 5 and Battlestar Galactica ones) and at least one which is the basic game plus a bunch of new items and iirc a new special scenarios or two.

The only thing I disliked was the combat. I appreciate that it was meant to be a casual coffee break game, but optional actiony controls would've been nice.

[Lyx]

The ability to do "themed mods" imo is the major reason why game-mods in general suck so much. It doesn't attract people who simply want to add something coherently into an already existing framework - rather it attracts (i'd even say "encourages") people to abuse the modding abiltities for making an entirely different game - in short, it attracts people who want to create games, yet want to skip all the requirements and background knowledge for doing that... and that amateur stuff then gets raped into a framework which was never really designed for that from the bottom up.

IMO, it really isn't enough to just make the game-editor and datastructures available to gamers. As a dev, you need to be aware that you are not dealing with game-designers, but instead with unexperienced people who need guidance... in practice this means that it would make sense to provide an unmoddable basic structure, and various aids for extending that existing structure coherently. Why would a gamedev want to do that? Well, that way you make sure that you provide an optimal environment for people to improve YOUR game, rather than create another game on top of an already existing game. Why would a player want that? Simple: A better vanilla game, rather than a bunch of hackish half-conversions.

[Eclipse]

The ability to do "themed mods" imo is the major reason why game-mods in general suck so much.

i hope you're talking about this game, because there are mods that are better than some commercial games out there

[Lyx]

The ability to do "themed mods" imo is the major reason why game-mods in general suck so much.

i hope you're talking about this game, because there are mods that are better than some commercial games out there

By the way, i see no contradiction between your statement and mine. The majority of attempts made are either crap, not using a mod-editor but instead a blank-slate game-engine, or a rare exception. Plus, the arguments raised by me (which you did not quote) are unaffected.

Using modding tools for creating different games is braindead. A developer or team of developers spend lots of time, effort and experience on creating a rock-solid base-game. But they lack the resources to add high variety of content. The devs have the skills and understanding to deliver a well balanced and well designed base, and gamers have the resources for adding tiny contentbits which fit coherently in the already existing framework.

Modding opens up the possibility to create games which cannot be created that way be developers: A rock-solid foundation, and then a seemingly infinite world of content, which - if well guided, documented, non-mutually exclusive, and someway moderated - fits seamlessly in the already existing framework. Here is a chance for both sides to with minimum effort per person create games which are "worlds". As a gamer, you have a framework in front of you, into which you can comfortably and colaboratively insert content bits, to create an awesome game... and what to the gamers do? Try to abuse it as a game development IDE. Earth to script-kiddie: If you want to create games, then create a game, not a mod.

[JamesGecko]

I dunno. The people modding stuff like Valve's Source games seem to be doing pretty good. Source being an insanely flexable and modable engine for FPS games in general probably helps with that.

[Lyx]

...The majority of attempts made are either crap, not using a mod-editor but instead a blank-slate game-engine, or a rare exception...

Source isn't just a tool to mod a game - it is a *generic* game engine for first person games. Creating a game from scratch with a generic game engine, isn't "modding a game". Those things may be called "mods", but they aren't.

This is something entirely different, then a developer making an engine and editing tools specifically for a specific game, releasing the editor, and players then trying to create games of it for which neither the engine nor the editor was designed. Plus, when you create a game from scratch, then this is quite different to some script-kiddies replacing a few images and strings, and then calling it a star-wars mod. I'm talking about people who would be better served with a general game IDE for beginners, but which for whatever reason dont want to start out small, and instead think that with a mod editor they can get some kind of magical shortcut.

[Mipe]

You know, Space Exploration: Serpens Sector reminds me of Weird Worlds. I guess the author may have been inspired by Weird Worlds, however he wanted more out of it like the rest of us.

[Nektonico]

You know, Space Exploration: Serpens Sector reminds me of Weird Worlds. I guess the author may have been inspired by Weird Worlds, however he wanted more out of it like the rest of us.

Gonna have to check that out then.

I love it how the thread just derailed into a dissertation of how game development is spiritually superior to mod making, instead of actually talking about the game itself.   

The battle portions of the game actually remind me of what Gratuitous Space Battles battles look like... on a smaller scale, of course.