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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperPlaytestingTank Universal: 3d tank combat - beta demo
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Author Topic: Tank Universal: 3d tank combat - beta demo  (Read 5067 times)
madjack
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« on: May 17, 2007, 04:47:48 AM »

Hi all - first time poster here.

I would like to submit a beta demo of a 3d tank game I have under development - Tank Universal. The demo contains two levels from the game + training level (recommend you play the training level first - the first demo level might be quite tough otherwise).

Default keys are WASD and mouselook for the turret. Q for stop. Function keys to activate powerups (if you have enough powershards). Keys can be remapped.

Download size is 94megs - demo is moleboxed.
www.tankuniversal.com/TU%20DEMO.zip

Specs:
Windows XP / 2000 (apparently runs ok under Vista as well)
Processor 2Ghz or higher
3d capable video card, 64megs (preferably 6600gt equivalent or higher?)
100 MB free disk (for the demo)

I've given the specs above, but in terms of feedback I'm looking to hear how it runs for people. The demo includes one of the biggest battles in the game with a lot going on, so you're going to need a reasonable machine (i.e not integrated graphics).

If it runs sluggishly be aware you can turn off the glow and complex sky fx in options for a boost (glow is off by default) - you could also try a lower resolution.

Screenshots:
Main menu


demo level


NB: piece of advice, take out turrets from afar and keep moving!

Thanks in advance for your comments and feedback.

Phil Jones
Dialogue Design Entertainment
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ravuya
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« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2007, 08:11:52 AM »

Wow, shiny. Smiley Wish there were a Mac version.
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madjack
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« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2007, 07:26:05 PM »

Sorry ravuya, developed using Blitz3d - so no mac version possible.

(If I develop the followup in Blitzmax + 3d engine wrapper, there might be a Mac version Wink)


Has anyone had the oppotunity to give it a whirl - I'm specifically looking for feedback (what you did/didn't like, how it ran for you on your specs)
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madjack
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« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2007, 08:57:14 PM »

So anyone had a go? Annnyyyooonnnne?

Listens for a reply but only hears faint echoes and the wind blowing mournfully through the stark winter branches Shocked
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Guert
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« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2007, 08:05:28 AM »

I'm downloading the game as we speak but reember that 92 mo isn't very accesisble. Specially if you are warning us about having a very good machine to run it...

Why is the game so big? Is there a way to make it smaller for testing?
I'll come back with more feedback later...
Guert
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Guert
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« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2007, 04:59:58 PM »

Title: Tank united

This is a first person tank shooting game. The player finds himself in the seat of a futuristic tank, battling enemy forces.

Emotional
Intuitivism : The game is hard to get at first. When you start moving around with the tank, you’re not sure what to do or where to go. The controls are easy to pick up but you don’t know why to use them. The radar, once you take a close look at it, is a big help. The problem is, at first, we don’t have anything that tells us exactly where to go. When enemy tanks are around, they appear quite clearly on the radar but the overall direction of where to go is not that intuitive.

Also, aiming and shooting is not as intuitive as it could be. We don’t see very well where we are shooting and where the bullet actually lands because of the eye shaped icon where we aim.

Moving around when the “move turret while turning” option is off can easily loose the player in my opinion. The game should start with the option turned on so that the first steps of the player are more intuitive.

Using the call option is not intuitive since we don’t know when to use it or what it does.

Another thing that’s not intuitive is the reload time for the tank. It took me awhile before finding out that I could only shoot when the blue lines appeared.

Immersion: Even if the game shows the player a lot of information, the general idea of being in a futuristic tank is well represented. We have various information and a chat-like command window that tells us what is going on, a very nice touch by the way, as well as interesting death transition effects.

I also like how the loading screen and re-spawn screen make us feel like we never really left the tank.

The game has a strong “tron” feel to it, very futuristic. It also helps to make the idea of fighting space tanks very believable. The sounds add to the overall theme and the lack of music gives the game a more realistic flavor. It’s just a little touch of realism that makes this game serious enough to believe that this tank war is not just for fun. 

A problem that that doesn’t help the game’s immersion is the fact that you can move through small structures and other tanks.  I don’t know if it’s a mistake or because you wanted to make sure that no one got stock in structure, but this feature is not very immersive.

An interesting thing to add would be transmission from other pilot. Just like when the tutorial or the briefing, other tanks would tell you when they are getting close or in trouble. So instead of having blue tank defeated, you’d have Joey’s tank has been destroyed or Anna’s tank is in trouble. Just a little detail to help make the game feel more immersive.


Experimentation level: The experiment level of the game looks promising. You have access to big maps and possibly levels with numerous possible strategies. Will we be bale to upgrade our tanks? Will we be able to choose our missions as well as our path to reach the last mission?

More elements of exploration and experimentation would help the experience of the game. Give us more goals than just finishing he mission. Give us sub-missions so we can explore a bit more the world that you are presenting us. 
 
Make sure your next level have enough variety in them. Try to focus on different aspect of your mechanics, not only “shoot and survive”. Try to think of as much ways as possible to use the mechanics you have to make the experience more diversified to boost the experimentation level of the game.

Motivation: As mentioned earlier, we need more goals to the game. We have our short-term goals (survive, kill enemy, get glyph to structure etc…), one mid-term goal (finish the level) and one long-term (finish the game). Give us more mid-terms and long terms goal, such as improving your tank, get upgrades, have the possibility to unlock more missions that are secret, move to another region, etc….

All in all, the player will need more motivation elements. Try to find something that will make the player say “Yeah, I’ll play few hours just to get that”, besides finishing the game.

Technical
Mechanisms:
Moving: Moving is very simple, but different speed would be interesting, like a turbo or something like that. The reason to this is that you want the player to be bale to run away from danger when he is in a very dangerous situation. In addition, it would help to make long traveling time shorter. For example, in the demo game, you have to get a glyph then go to the reactor-type building. While doing the delivery, there is nothing happening. This traveling time is very long since there is nothing challenging us.

Turning: I found turning a bit weird. It felt like the tank was rotating when off the ground. I’m not an expert in tanks but I expected the tank to move accordingly to the turning. If I stop the tank and press the turning buttons, the tank turns with ease while remaining on the same spot. It felt weird.  One note: it felt a lot better when I turned the “Turn turret when turning” option on. It was easier to move around.

Shooting: We need more attack speed. We should be able to shoot a lot more often. Since we can power up our shot, I suggest that you make the tank shoot at a higher rate but make very little damage. This way, boosting your shot will be better than shooting a lot but the option of doing it will be there. Also, maybe making the boosting up animation clearer would help a lot. 

Aiming: We also need more accuracy. Although very simple, the aiming is not very precise. I still haven’t figured out how the bullets travel. It took me numerous times before I could shoot at an enemy at range. Maybe you could lock the aiming on an enemy so the bullet targets it? Anything is good as long as it’s easier to hit from a certain range.
Otherwise, moving and aiming is fine by my book.

Place land mine: There’s nothing much to say about this mechanics. Pretty simple actually and it works.

Call for support: I’m not sure that the correct term used in game. Actually, I’m not sure it actually does something in the game. I know I can press the e button and it says that I request something, but I can’t see anything new in game. Maybe making it clearer on what happens in game when pressing the e.

Economics: The economics are a bit weird in this game… Let’s take a look at the elements.

Health/shields: I know that my tank’s got some shield power, which is at the same time it’s health. No shields means destruction. There doesn’t seem to be any ways to fix my tank when it’s heavily damaged. So, shield is not gain but only lost

Mines: I have a pack of mines when I start the game, and a couple more every time I get re-spawned. I do not know where to get extra mines once I’ve placed them all. Once again, we have an element that you can only loose, never gain.

I’m not saying that it’s necessarily bad, but I can’t seem to find anything that actually rewards me from playing the game. I don’t have any kill counts or any statistics. I can capture enemy elements but they can catch it back.

Basically, I’m thinking that you should give something for the player’s effort. Perhaps not in-game, but after the mission. Perhaps there is, but I can’t finish a single mission so I can’t really tell.

Flow
The loading time is a bit long, but there doesn’t seem to have any loading while playing, which is good. The loading screen is also well done so it’s not a big problem.

It’s hard to say something about the flow of the game when there is little menus in the demo. At the moment, I believe the application flows correctly. We have easy access to what we need at the right time. 

Ergonomics: Ergonomically speaking, the application very well created. All menus are displayed in the same fashion, we can customize volume, sound effects, remap buttons, change the way we control the tank, adjust the level of details in the texturing, there are messages when performing critical action such as quitting, pausing and resume the game is easy to do. The only problem I see is that the game screen may hold too much information, making the screen too crowded.

Another thing... In the starting screen, where we set the basic settings, what on earth are the Aa, Wbuf, Dith and Hmtx options?  This information is definitively unclear to the player… At least not in English. Make sure that if you choose one language, make it so everything is in the same language.  No tech jargon too, only plain English.

Stability: The game crashed after a couple of minutes of play in the demo fight. A memory access violation occurred while fighting another tank. I tried to make it crash again but couldn’t. The final product will need to have intense testing to find all the obscure bugs Wink

Accessibility: The game is quite accessible. There are audio cues supported by text and people can easily adapt the game to their needs. Difficulty is adjustable to fit the players liking. Over all, a very accessible application, in my opinion.

Conclusion
Overall, an interesting game that seems to be on solid grounds but needs to push itself a bit more. Pour more soul in your game and you’ll have something very special. Right now, it’s nice, but there’s nothing special about it. The stage is set, all you need now is to make the experience come to life.

Keep up the good work!
Guert
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madjack
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« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2007, 08:29:18 PM »

Guert

Thanks very much for the excellent, in-depth feedback - much appreciated!

Quote
The problem is, at first, we don’t have anything that tells us exactly where to go
Yes - I think there's not a strong enough connection being made for the newbie, between the message to 'move forward and collect a glyph' at the start of the tutorial, and the plot on the radar. As you say, you probably got where you were supposed to go once you'd inspected the radar(?), but there needs to be a message (that can't be ignored) that points the player to look at the radar.

One other possibility is to have a mini cam window appear when you're given an objective, so you can see your objective. That way you get the message, you see a picture of your objective and you have the radar plot. Also, the mini cam could be tied to a keypress, so the user could recall the mini cam view on demand. What do you think about that idea?

Quote
'We don’t see very well where we are shooting and where the bullet actually lands because of the eye shaped icon where we aim'
Good point - the eye icon, although it's interesting, does obscure distant targets. May change that to a simple dot.

Quote
Moving around when the “move turret while turning” option is off can easily loose the player in my opinion. The game should start with the option turned on so that the first steps of the player are more intuitive.

Ok.

Quote
Using the call option is not intuitive since we don’t know when to use it or what it does.
In the tutorial, when you're placed in the full battle (at the end), if you're destroyed, you are respawned in a small alcove and it's explained how the call lifter option works. A lifter arrives and it takes you back to the battle.

Quote
'Another thing that’s not intuitive is the reload time for the tank. It took me awhile before finding out that I could only shoot when the blue lines appeared.'
Hmm, I've tried to suggest reloading by having the circles rotating on-screen and the reload soundfx. Perhaps I even need to have a little 'reloading' text block appear under the sights as well.

Quote
'move through small structures and other tanks'
Yeah - it was a call to make those 'pods' non-collidable - else I felt the player could get stuck on them. In terms of driving through the other tanks - unfortunately that's just Blitz3d's dodgy collision checking between moving spheres. It doesn't happen too often and it's not a gamebreaking issue, so I'm not too concerned about it.

Quote
An interesting thing to add would be transmission from other pilot.

I do have generic messages from other tanks, but it's not as focused as specific pilots. One of the issues is the high death rate of friendly tanks ;-)  But one of the critcisms that could be made of the game is that it's rather impersonal...

Quote
Will we be bale to upgrade our tanks?

There are upgrades to earn along the way. The last upgrade, for example, is a nuke

Quote
Will we be able to choose our missions as well as our path to reach the last mission?

I'd have to say that the missions, and in particular the mission list, is linear. Obviously within the large levels you have much freedom about where you go and the game will throw different situations at you each time you play, but the missions are linear. Perhaps in TU2 I can take a more GTA approach.

Quote
Make sure your next level have enough variety in them
Y
es - I have some levels that take place on foot and present different challenges. Tank combat all the time gets boring, so I have new elements introduced in each of the levels to try and avoid that.

Quote
'but different speed would be interesting, like a turbo or something like that'
There is a turbo function - F1. That is explained in the training mission - did you go through that part?
However, I've tied using the turbo to collecting 'powershards' - you collect powershards from destroyed tanks and 'spend' them when activating a power-up. But perhaps the turbo should be always available but needs time to recharge. That would avoid the player running out of powershards and being puzzled why the turbo won't work anymore.

Quote
'If I stop the tank and press the turning buttons, the tank turns with ease while remaining on the same spot. It felt weird. '
Not realistic, but I'm aiming for an easy control scheme so I haven't tied turn rate to tank speed. 

Quote
...it felt a lot better when I turned the “Turn turret when turning” option on. It was easier to move around.

Cool.

Quote
'We should be able to shoot a lot more often. Since we can power up our shot, I suggest that you make the tank shoot at a higher rate but make very little damage.This way, boosting your shot will be better than shooting a lot but the option of doing it will be there.
Yes - don't want to turn your tank into a machinegun, but a higher rate of fire for lesser damage would be more exciting.  And as you point out,  need to better emphasise the idea of charging up" a shot. So if you can get off a charged up' shot, it'll do much more damage than a standard shot. Good point.

Quote
Also, maybe making the boosting up animation clearer would help a lot.

Agreed - it's a bit wuzzy at the moment - you really need to feel that you're gathering together a huge bundle of energy.

Quote
Maybe you could lock the aiming on an enemy so the bullet targets it?

Now on this I'm standing firm - there'll be no magic lock-on. I might think about some sort of target leading, but I'm still feeling that it will be a matter of practice to start getting the range of distant targets. I have implemented splash damage, so you don't need a direct hit. Also, if I boost the damage from a charged up shot, you won't need a direct hit to damage.

Quote
Place land mine: There’s nothing much to say about this mechanics. Pretty simple actually and it works.

Yep - landmines are not much use on the big open levels but I have a number of maze type levels where the enemy are more likely to run over them.

Quote
I know I can press the e button and it says that I request something,

I think you've confused the enter/eject button  with the call lifter button (l). The eject button isn't used in the demo - there's some levels where you do exit your tank, but only at specfic points and you get a message saying to hit the e button to do so.

Quote
There doesn’t seem to be any ways to fix my tank when it’s heavily damaged. So, shield is not gain but only lost

Shields regen slowly when you stop taking damage. Also F2 is regen health - but you will need powershards to activate.

Quote
I do not know where to get extra mines once I’ve placed them all. Once again, we have an element that you can only loose, never gain.
The tutorial does say to collect powershards from destroyed tanks to 'spend' on powerups (including mines). They look like glowing 'seeds' where tanks have been destroyed, but perhaps that's not clear enough. Perhaps they need to be more floating in the air (up and down) in that motion that says 'collect me!' ;-)

Quote
Basically, I’m thinking that you should give something for the player’s effort. Perhaps not in-game, but after the mission
Agreed - some sort of level stats screen would be a bit of a pay-off. Will have a think about that.

Quote
what on earth are the Aa, Wbuf, Dith and Hmtx options?

Yeah - it's a third party menu lib. Agree that the options given are a bit too techo.

Quote
The game crashed after a couple of minutes of play in the demo fight.

Yes - there's still one or two intermittant bugs floating round - more testing required.

Anyway, thanks again Guert - that's given me much to look at.
As they say, no game survives first contact with the general public and this is no exception.
I hope that when I've addressed the issues you've raised, you'll give it another look through?

Cheers again.










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Guert
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« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2007, 05:08:40 AM »

Well, the first time you send the game in the public, you find all the things you can't see from your position. It's hard to find elements that don't feel ok when you have repeated them over and over again.

Tell us when you ahve anew version, I'll be happy to take a look!
Guert
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