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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperBusinessFinding work: beat'em or join'em?
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Author Topic: Finding work: beat'em or join'em?  (Read 2906 times)
nico
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« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2012, 02:40:28 PM »

I don't feel any particular need to defend SPs points or writing style, as neither are my own and aren't really the topic of this thread. Also I'm sorry if my posting offended you in some way.

So instead I'll try to answer this from the context of the original question: whether jprogram should get a game job or start a game company.

1. He claims that you'll only be paid for the hours you work, not for the value you bring to the table. As I mentioned previously, that's ludicrous. Your salary is based on your skill level, i.e. exactly the value you can bring to the table.

I think his point was simply this: in a job you can never, ever be paid in full for the value you produce, because that would mean the company loses money on you. If you're good the difference can be quite substantial - the majority of what you produce will usually be going to shareholders, not to you. Thus if you're really worth your paycheck, you may be able to do better on your own.

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3. Having a steady job is like being in a cage and companies want you to be a good pet. Plenty of companies challenge their employees because they don't want mindless worker drones -- they want employees that are able to push the company forward and think for themselves

That's true in some companies, and I guess especially young and cool companies (like game companies) try to be more open. But at the end of the day you're still answerable to someone. You're still expected to show up 9-5 every weekday. And you're still expected to work on what you're told to work on, you can't just switch to a side project on a whim because you think it's a cool idea.

For most people this is fine. Others are willing to go up in risk to get the extra freedom. Personally I've never been as productive in a job as I am on my own, mostly because I can work on whatever I'm most passionate about at the moment.

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4. [...]Furthermore, he's disregarding stuff I mentioned earlier such as health insurance and payments to your retirement fund that are often included with a steady job (people that have been self-employed often end up being unable to retire simply because they weren't "forced" to pay towards their retirement fund). A lot of companies also offer other free stuff such as free daycare and free lunch.

And all that is coming out of your paycheck. From the company's perspective, everything you cost them (health insurance, employment taxes, free food etc) has to be subtracted from the value you produce, and you have to produce a net profit on top of that. If you can produce that same value on your own (and that IS a big if...) and you can budget it correctly (another if), you can get all those things and more.

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5. Having a steady job is riskier than being self-employed because you can be fired. I guess you can't be fired if you're self-employed, but you can definitely lose clients. And without clients, you may still technically be employed, but you're not making any money.

I guess you're talking about a personal service business here. From the point of view of a game company, this doesn't make much sense. Your "clients" (customers) can number in the tens or hundreds of thousands, even millions. Losing a few of them is irrelevant. Ditto for point 6.

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It's like he's taking the worst job he can think of, almost turning it into a caricature

This I can agree with.

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then comparing it to some idealized version of self-employment, where you apparently have ultimate freedom and no obligations (sometimes I can't tell if he's talking about self-employment or winning the lottery!)

No, he's comparing it to his own real life. The guy built a business system that produces passive income, and intentionally so. Before he did it with his blog, he had already done it with his game company. He's written more about this elsewhere.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2012, 02:58:54 PM by nico » Logged

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Christian Knudsen
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« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2012, 03:18:10 PM »

If the guy's point is that it's more risky to have a steady job than owning your own completely established successful business where the money just keeps on pouring in, then, duh, yeah. But very few people get to that point. Most crash and burn. And a large number of the people that don't crash and burn end up working more hours than they would at a steady job, consequently earning less and getting paid less for the value they have to offer. The guy is painting a rosy red picture of being self-employed that is neither factual nor realistic for 99% of the self-employed people out there.
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« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2012, 11:46:46 AM »

If the guy's point is that it's more risky to have a steady job than owning your own completely established successful business where the money just keeps on pouring in, then, duh, yeah. But very few people get to that point. Most crash and burn. And a large number of the people that don't crash and burn end up working more hours than they would at a steady job, consequently earning less and getting paid less for the value they have to offer. The guy is painting a rosy red picture of being self-employed that is neither factual nor realistic for 99% of the self-employed people out there.

What you say may be true, but it's worth noting that for some people, amount of money is not their number 1 priority in choosing the type of work they do. It's not a matter of maximizing your income, but trying to make your life more enjoyable. That's why I think it's important to get experience (if it's possible) of being employed and self-employed.
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Christian Knudsen
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« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2012, 12:00:12 PM »

I'm specifically arguing against the points made by Steve Pavlina that having a steady job is more risky than being self-employed and that you'll be working less hours self-employed. I'm not at all touching on why some people and how many people would prefer to be self-employed. Again, I'm self-employed myself, very much for the reasons you just posted.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 12:09:25 PM by Christian Knudsen » Logged

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nico
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« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2012, 03:36:25 AM »

I'm specifically arguing against the points made by Steve Pavlina that having a steady job is more risky than being self-employed and that you'll be working less hours self-employed.

That depends entirely on what you're doing and how you doing it. If you just 'start for yourself' in a consultant-style business, then obviously you'll get enormous risk. Those kinds of businesses are really just glorified jobs with a less steady paycheck.

If however you start out by planning a sane business model, you can create a business that scales. And if you can scale it to serve many thousands of people, you can make a lot of money in any field. A business model doesn't have to be complicated though: "creating and selling games" will work. But your plan has to include HOW you'll be able to create games, and WHY you think they will sell in a crowded market. You can't just slap something together and hope for the best.

Will you have to work hard? Sure. Is success instant and automatic? No, duh. But that's the way business works: short term investments bring long term rewards. Of course I'm not saying anything new here.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 12:31:19 PM by nico » Logged

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« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2012, 03:45:44 AM »

I can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing that having a steady job is generally more risky than being self-employed? Are you really saying that starting a video game company is less risky than having a steady job?
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nico
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« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2012, 04:01:45 AM »

I can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing that having a steady job is generally more risky than being self-employed? Are you really saying that starting a video game company is less risky than having a steady job?

Starting a company? No. Having a (good) company? Yes. But in order to get to point B you have to go through point A. Short term risk, long term safety.

And what are you "risking" by starting a company, exactly? Worst comes to worst you can just go get a job again. Or start one on the side.
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« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2012, 04:18:25 AM »

And equally, if you're fired from your steady job, you "can just go get a job again".

I'm not saying being self-employed is the most risky thing in the world and sure to get you evicted from your apartment and send you into poverty and drug abuse. I'm saying that it's more risky than having a steady job because you're not guaranteed success nor a paycheck if you start your own company -- while you are guaranteed a paycheck at the end of each month if you have a steady job. Like you said yourself, you're exchanging safety for freedom and a shot at making your own (minor or larger) fortune.

Again, of course having a successful no-risk company that brings in a steady paycheck that's equal to or more than what you'd get from a steady job is less risky than having a steady job. But that's twisting the argument, as you're basically saying that being self-employed with a low-risk company is less risky than having a high-risk steady job. Well, duh.

People in steady jobs aren't dumb or morons -- they're just not willing or interested in the risk associated with starting up your own business. Because no matter how much you try to twist the argument, starting your own business and becoming self-employed is more risky than having a steady job. There are numerous statistics to support this fact.

And that's all from me on this subject. I fell like I'm arguing that the Earth is indeed round.
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« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2012, 06:28:54 AM »

Very interesting that you mention "beat them, or join them".  It really depends on whether you just need the money, or whether you are determined enough to beat your competitors.
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Richard Kain
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« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2012, 01:15:30 PM »

I don't know...I've been out of work for a few months, and I'm beginning to think the self-employment route might not be so bad. I got fired from my last job as a cost-cutting measure. The upper management decided to outsource my duties to India. My performance reviews were better than ever, and I was getting along well with the rest of the team I worked with. I didn't do anything wrong and was good at my job, and I still got canned.

In the current business environment it just seems like there isn't any stability or loyalty anymore. Companies treat their employees as disposable resources, discarded as soon as a lower-cost alternative is available. At least working for yourself you can have some level of control over your own direction.
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« Reply #30 on: May 17, 2012, 09:12:36 PM »

Just one more thing before I take a first step:
If I were to start selling my games online solely, I need to consider getting a business license or so, correct?

Meanwhile, I'm still looking around home for work and seem to be making progress for a change.  Grin
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