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[Damian]

Are we still using this character??? Cause if you change it then there's no need in me trying to make him side on to make a walk animation...

You can change what you want and I wouldn't look forward to me finishing the animation. I'm going out for a while. I'd like to see more things come from this character.

[Damian]

Are we still using this character??? Cause if you change it then there's no need in me trying to make him side on to make a walk animation...

You can change what you want and I wouldn't look forward to me finishing the animation. I'm going out for a while. I'd like to see more things come from this character.

Minor update:

[Soulliard]

I like what you've done so far.

[William Broom]

That looks good, Jim! Kind of menacing, which is what I would expect from the Dwarf.

[shig]

Did you base these on Zangief`s walking animation, by any chance?

[Rory]

That, looks, AWESOME!

[Rostiger]

Lookin' pretty good so far - keep 'em coming!

[Eclipse]

Are we still using this character??? Cause if you change it then there's no need in me trying to make him side on to make a walk animation...

You can change what you want and I wouldn't look forward to me finishing the animation. I'm going out for a while. I'd like to see more things come from this character.

Minor update:

why you can't make it run as is it now? it's too much from a side now imo

look at this one

[Damian]

"Zangief"...Who the heck is he??

Are we still using this character??? Cause if you change it then there's no need in me trying to make him side on to make a walk animation...

You can change what you want and I wouldn't look forward to me finishing the animation. I'm going out for a while. I'd like to see more things come from this character.

Minor update:

why you can't make it run as is it now? it's too much from a side now imo

look at this one

@ Mr Eclipse. Design wise side view will look best for him. 2 reasons why.
1. Compared to the character you just showed, the dwarf is to front on to even try this way of animating. And he's fat and wide. I'd probs make it look like a waddle.
2.From the dwarfs view I feel that I have very little to work with joint wise. So with Side on I can incorporate walk/stomp mechanics with out resizing the limbs.

I'm also not sure why you'd have a problem with this? There are other character animations that are side on?
Like this?


How ever I'm actually struggling to get lower body right as I'v already lowered the crotch to make space for thigh and hip movement ultimately making the joints stretch(I'll have to change this). And the feet are a pain. So I'll get the upper body animation finished and get the stick under lie animation finished for the bottom and ask for help with furthering it after I have a basic outline of anatomy and so on.


Yesterday I didn't have time to do animations being away from the pc. So I'll get to work on this animation as soon as possible.  That however does not mean you guys can't do some stuff!

well its late here.
Toodles

[Soulliard]

Dwarf is broken. 

He's a slow, short-ranged character, who's very easy to take advantage of. I think most of his attacks could be fixed by giving him a bit more reach.

However, Shield Charge and Tantrum are both proving very difficult to balance. For one thing, they're redundant. They're also both nearly impossible to counter.

Shield Charge could probably be fixed by removing the knockback immunity.

I have no idea what to do about Tantrum, though. It's a fun move to play around with, but I have not been able to make it useful without making it overpowered.

Your suggestions are certainly welcome. 

[William Broom]

Well, Tantrum was basically a copy of some moves from SSB, like Jigglypuff's and Yoshi's roll attacks, so we could look to them for help with balancing it. One thing about those attacks is that they have a VERY long charge up time. Perhaps this would help balance out the Tantrum?

[Soulliard]

Here's my Dwarf revitalization plan so far:
Hammer and Anvil: Move to >A. Remove the reduced damage against aerial enemies (Dwarf's already slow, he doesn't need an additional weakness when fighting acrobatic characters). Reduce speed, but greatly improve reach and damage. Should be a very slow, but immensely powerful attack (think Dedede side smash).

Shield Charge: Move to >S. No longer reduces knockback (but still reflects projectiles). Reduce reach.

Axe Spin: Increase reach and damage.

Mining Pick: Slightly increase speed, reach, and melee damage.

Crossbow: Make it only usable while standing on ground.

Wrestling: Move to A. After Dwarf grabs his victim, he should jump into the air with him and perform a body slam. The direction of the jump can be affected with the arrow keys.

Catapult: I think it's okay.

Tantrum: Replace. I hate to suggest this, but it's really redundant with shield charge. Instead, vS will be a trap setting move. I'm not sure what would work best- a large, serrated blade trap, a cage trap (which stuns the target), or a magma trap. The trap could only be set on the ground, and would disappear after it was triggered, or if another trap was set.

[shig]

Wrestling is more of an S move IMO.

Even if its an A move, it shouldn't be neutral A.


Either way, I think the Dwarf is weak in this game because he is not only slow and close ranged, but SMALL. In SSB, you could outrun Donkey Kong easily, but eventually you'd get to the end of the stage and you'd have to jump over him. At that point there is a great chance he'd get you 'cause he has a really good range in some of his attacks. Either that or he'd catch you as you were falling, because in SSB jumping moves you slower horizontally than running.

In IB we don't have the option of pressing forward twice to dash/run and Dwarf is a Donkey Kong with the size and range of Kirby.

[William Broom]

I think a trap setting move would be good. It would probably be more in-character than a tantrum, really. One of DF's greatest features is the elaborate traps people make, but I've honestly never heard of or seen a Dwarf suffer from a tantrum, except on DF wiki. Plus, trap setting works well with his fighting style, and it would be cool if you could grab someone with wrestling and then bodyslam them into your trap.

I agree with Shig that allocating a grapple to A-neutral feels a bit weird. What's your rationale behind that? I feel that Wrestling is a much flashier and more elaborate move than Shield Charge, so it makes sense for it to be a special attack.

Other than that, all the changes you suggested sound great. I especially like the idea that despite Dwarf being relatively weak in the air, his Axe Spin is a powerful ground-to-air attack, similar to Zangief's Double Lariat.

[Bremze]

Tantrum should stay! I think Shield bash should have a lower startup time and the dash should be quicker, maybe a bit more range. I mainly used it to get in range for my other melee attacks and on smaller platforms.

Tantrum is a great utility move, I used it to get to opponents more than Catapult, because its faster. The only change in Tantrum, that I want, is Tantrum should be cancel-able out of with Catapult. Sure, that might not be fitting for a dwarf, but it would be great fun.

[Soulliard]

Wrestling is more of an S move IMO.

Even if its an A move, it shouldn't be neutral A.

I though Shield Charge was more special than wrestling, since it is Dwarf's main defensive move. It's not important, though, and I can leave them as they are.

Either way, I think the Dwarf is weak in this game because he is not only slow and close ranged, but SMALL.

In terms of his hitbox, he's actually reasonably large, but I agree that his attacks need more reach.

I think a trap setting move would be good. It would probably be more in-character than a tantrum, really. One of DF's greatest features is the elaborate traps people make, but I've honestly never heard of or seen a Dwarf suffer from a tantrum, except on DF wiki. Plus, trap setting works well with his fighting style, and it would be cool if you could grab someone with wrestling and then bodyslam them into your trap.

It's actually your idea. I dug it up from an earlier post in the thread.

I didn't even think about the bodyslam combo, but you're right, that would be great.

Other than that, all the changes you suggested sound great. I especially like the idea that despite Dwarf being relatively weak in the air, his Axe Spin is a powerful ground-to-air attack, similar to Zangief's Double Lariat.

It's always been like that, but I still think it should be better.

[Khosan]

Tantrum: Replace. I hate to suggest this, but it's really redundant with shield charge. Instead, vS will be a trap setting move. I'm not sure what would work best- a large, serrated blade trap, a cage trap (which stuns the target), or a magma trap. The trap could only be set on the ground, and would disappear after it was triggered, or if another trap was set.

Well, you could change Tantrum on a fundamental level.

Instead of having the Dwarf go 'berserk' and run around murderizing everything, you could turn it into a powerful, melee counterattack.  Dwarf hits Tantrum, starts moving slower, gets this super-pissed look on his face (include bugged out eyes and mouth foam at your discretion) and waddles around with his fists clenched.  First thing to hit him in melee gets what amounts to a Falcon Punch in the Elves' twigs and berries.

It's a little less strictly Dwarf-like (since a tantrum in Dwarfland usually entailed a rampage), but it's more easily balanced while still remaining relatively close to its intent.

You could have the 'pissed off' phase last a couple seconds (I'd say anywhere from 1-3, so he could waddle after people menacingly), leave him unable to attack normally until the tantrum ends (much like the game) and you could potentially make him take extra damage when he's pissed.  I think it could make him feel a bit more tanky this way.

EDIT: This would mean a couple extra animations for pissed-walking, pissed-standing and pissed-jumping, but I think it'd pay off.

[William Broom]

I don't really like that idea, since as you say, it's not very true to the source material. Also, if you used such a move against a character with only melee attacks, they would have no way to attack you until the tantrum ended. This could be easily exploited.

[shig]

We're too worried with tantrums, traps and arrows, I think.

If he's supposed to be a close range character, we should give him less moves that require some sort of setup and instead give him some close ranged striking moves. Not all of his moves should be so gimmicky. Let him have some standard ones like a simple axe slash on A.

IMO, the reason why Golden Knight is a good close ranged character is because he has plenty of options to hit you with when he gets close.

[Soulliard]

I agree with Shig. If this character is going to work, he will need fewer gimmicky attacks.