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[pippinbarr]

Hi everyone, I just released my follow-up game to Safety Instructions this evening, and would be interested to hear what people think.

It's called "The Artist Is Present" and is an old-school Sierra-style recreation of the famous (in the art world) performance work of the same name, by artist Marina Abramovic. It definitely won't be everyone's cup of tea, and in fact in many senses it's basically completely unplayable, but I hope that it at least provokes a bit of thought about games and what they are/might be. It's more of a game about games (and about art) than anything else.

At the very least I've solved the "are games art?" question! All on my own!

Link: http://www.pippinbarr.com/games/theartistispresent/TheArtistIsPresent.html

Image:

[Atnas]

The link is broken. :u

[xbelanch]

Link is broken... but interesting idea!

[pippinbarr]

Damnit! Sorry about that - edited in the OP to work now.

[RichMakeGame!]

I went left to the next screen, up, then right and get the message 'the museum of modern art is now closed, have a nice day' and I can't do anything else, it seems frozen.

that doesn't make sense to me since the first thing I tried to do was go in, and it said on the door it was closed. how is it 'now closed' when it was closed to begin with?

I thought you were being clever so I changed my system time.. hmm, nope..

so anyway.. is the answer 'no'?

edit: I read a few of your blog posts on it, and I can see it's taken a lot of work so apologies if the above seems harsh. I think maybe something should be done to put it in context.. or at least some clue as to the games purpose. I'm *guessing* that I can go in when the real MOMA is open? the first reaction as a game player when I see instantly the front doors are closed is 'hmm, I guess I have to sneak in' and so I try to go around the side, which results in a permanent 'closed' message. Actually the first thing I did was wander several screens off to the side to see if I would encounter the screenshot, which appears to be taking place in the void.

At the moment, I'm wondering really what the purpose of the void is.. is that some part of the artistic statement involved in the piece? or a bug? I feel when I'm asking this question it's bound to cloud the message of the game.

[MattG]

interactive entertainment (games) are the ultimate art. art music sculpture feedback loop user magic

games are the zenith of modern arts IMO and your game is interesting

you should get poser and use highres 3d people for your pieces for a switchup IMO

[pippinbarr]

I went left to the next screen, up, then right and get the message 'the museum of modern art is now closed, have a nice day' and I can't do anything else, it seems frozen.

Whoa! Great catch on that - I'll fix it... a love how this happens. As you say, if the museum is closed in New York then it's closed in the game, but I hadn't foreseen you going "around the side" at which point the game thinks you got into the museum while it was closed and... behaves badly.

Thanks a lot for finding this!

[RichMakeGame!]

could I suggest maybe putting a clock somewhere showing the time in New York?

also, maybe some short text explaining the idea behind the 'game'- many art galleries will have plaques next to modern art pieces explaining the idea and intent of the artist, giving a context without which the piece is often meaningless..

I kind of think something similar here might help, and help negate the 'gamery' reaction to being locked out much of the time. Unless you understand that the game literally is closed when the real gallery is closed (and what time it is in new york), the impulse is to keep playing even though in reality there's nothing to do- so you either assume the game is broken or there is something you're missing (like trying to change the system clock). Anyone who keeps on playing and eventually gives up is going to have a fairly negative overall feeling toward the game, so again I kind of think the mechanic behind it should be explained clearly somewhere.

ps, still confused why you allow people to wonder off into the endless void, when as far as I can see there is nothing out there.. It just encourages people to explore in the hope they find something, and inevitably get irritated and quit

[pippinbarr]

Hey @RichMakeGame! interesting thoughts, thanks for this...

Regarding the last one - I've fixed the problem with the camera following you off the sides of the screen if you leave while the gallery is closed, so now you just wander off without seeing it. I wanted to keep a sense that you could just "leave" if you wanted to, without feeling like I should be compelled to, you know, render all of New York

As to the issues surrounding how obtuse the game is... well it's a fine line of course. I completely agree that a substantial number of people might decide to have a go, find the museum is closed, and feel angered. On the other hand, I also want to promote the idea that games don't *have* to pander to particular notions of usability, that they can be a little more like life. In reality, we don't go to the shop, find it closed, and then find ourselves unable to understand what this could mean - we go "oh, the shop's closed, oh well." I think it's important for games to be able to represent this kind of thing without apologising (even if the apology is implicit in the form of an explanation).

As to explaining the artwork itself... that's an interesting one. I could definitely think about doing something like that, but I feel that my preference here may be to allow people to look it up themselves if they're wondering what's going on... it's not at all difficult to find information on the real performance and come to a better understanding of what might be inside the (closed) museum. If the player doesn't give a crap and gets the experience of "I wanted to check this game out but it was closed, so fuck it..." ... well I'm actually kind of happy with that, glad that such an experience can exist alongside the beautiful array of other kinds of games...

Those are some ideas, at least - I really appreciate that you took the time to come at it thoughtfully.

Cheers,

Pippin

[Mikademus]

As you say, if the museum is closed in New York then it's closed in the game

Now, isn't that clever for all of us who lives in another time zone.

I was curious about your take on art games, but that's just being obnoxious, and your game is certainly not worth getting jet lagged for. Performance art is not about making people frustrated for the sake of anger or frustration itself (well, it could be, but then you're performing the art of being an asshole). It seems very reasonably here to use local time or at least say East Coast US time in the "Closed" note. Or are you being intentionally isolationist and US-centric as a social commentary of the US-centricity of the current state of video games? *Sigh*

This I say as an experimental art fan as well as a game designer.

[RichMakeGame!]

I see where you're coming from.. I'm just not sure the shop analogy holds up in the context of a computer game, where people come with a preconceived notion that you the game designer are setting a challenge for them to overcome, or at least something to interact with.

I can run the game at 9pm NY time, or 3am, and I just wouldn't have gone to the gallery (or the shops) in the first place at that time. It's expected that videogames happen in their own bubble of time (does the game grow dark at night? or is it always full sunshine?). Now, I think it's interesting to break preconceptions, i love the idea- I just feel that the user has to be aware you're doing it. it could be as simple as adding a NY-time watch to the hud. I don't think that adding context to understand the idea of the game is the same as an apology. I don't know one way or the other, but I imagine the original work had some kind of plaque or gallery pamphlet which talked about the meaning of the performance.

there's another thing which contributes to the preconceptions of the 'gaminess' of the piece- Sierra adventure games often had some area which was closed or off limits and you had to solve a puzzle to get in. To me, making this connection already sets up the idea there is a challenge or puzzle to solve, in the traditional game sense. And you could certainly argue that waiting till the right time is the puzzle, but the missing clue is what time it is. That's fine for a strip of people living on the east coast of America, but for a wider audience it's not so clear

[pippinbarr]

@RichMakeGame, @Mikademus

Great feedback again, and I appreciate these thoughts. I should say right from the beginning that obviously this just happens to be the game I made - there are many other ways I could have made and we'd all be mistaken if we were trying to argue one way was "right" and the others wrong. So I totally acknowledge your perspectives here, even as I'm still fairly happy with my own approach.

It's a good point re:it not getting dark etc., that does strike me as a bit unfair (and maybe I'll amend that some time today - would be a nice thing for it to get dark!

I agree that adding context doesn't necessarily mean you're apologising, it's more that for this particular game I really did want it to sit there, somewhat obnoxiously of course, but also somewhat honestly, and *not help*. So the fact remains that if the museum is closed, it's closed, and players ought to be able to cope with that... it doesn't take too long to recognise there's nothing you can do about it, after all, and it's a good realisation to have, I still think.

As to this idea of US-centrism and all that... well, that's an interesting interpretation of it. I'm not American and have never lived there (though I used to be on New York time when I lived in Ottawa). But in seeking to make the game somehow strangely "honest" as much as I could, it made sense to me that the museum in the game would mirror the one in reality - particular since it's so much a game about following rules (very much part of gallery experiences too). For the record, the game isn't so extreme as to implement New York time with its own time server, so if you change your system clock you can fool it easily enough (it operates based on the system clock's reporting of UTC time). Rather than having a clock on the HUD (not that there *isn't* a HUD though, which is important to me), I prefer the player to ask "what time is it in New York right now?" - again, not a difficult question to answer. I guess that can be cast as a "puzzle" external to the game, but I prefer to think of it just as reality.

Regarding the Sierra aesthetic implying solvable puzzles... that's a great observation, and I think you're right that it makes the game feel more unfair than it might otherwise. I used the Sierra style particularly with reference to Police Quest (a favourite game of mine) because it's so tied up with procedures and fairly unforgiving implementations of those procedures. Yes, those games also have solvable puzzles, but they're only solvable in the way the game dictates... just like my game: the only solution to the museum being closed is to wait for it to open. It's just we're not used to hearing that "wait" is the solution to a problem in games (or, often, in life!)

As to whether the game is worth getting jet lagged for (assuming you don't change your system clock to "make" the museum be open)... well that's entirely up to the player, I don't really mind, as I said, if someone fires it up, finds the museum is closed, and says "screw this" and wanders off - that's a totally legitimate response and I'm really not looking for validation in the sense of "awesome game! that was fun!"... it's not fun, it just is what it is.

Anyway, really interesting to have this conversation - I appreciate it a lot. (If I've managed to say anything too flippant etc., just assume I'm writing quickly and thus not as deeply as I might like.)

[RichMakeGame!]

For the record, the game isn't so extreme as to implement New York time with its own time server, so if you change your system clock you can fool it easily enough (it operates based on the system clock's reporting of UTC time)

aaah, I see. This is one jump further than my brain was able to make . I think it's because when I changed my clock, I saw no noticeable change in the game, so was unaware that the time change had in fact made a difference to the game's time- it just so happens the time I chose locally was still out of hours in the game.

it might be that some 'time of day brightness' effect would indeed make all the difference

PS, I'm enjoying the idea of the game (haven't made it in yet ) and the discussion. I'm not intending to make any kind of argument one way or the other for what the game should be, just present my reaction and I guess a 'what I would do'. But as you say, there is no right or wrong.

PPS- for me, Marcel Duchamp already answered the argument 'can games be art' :] if a urinal can be, surely a game can too.. But then what?

[Mikademus]

I totally acknowledge your perspectives here, even as I'm still fairly happy with my own approach. ... As to this idea of US-centrism and all that... well, that's an interesting interpretation of it. I'm not American and have never lived there ... I don't really mind, as I said, if someone fires it up, finds the museum is closed, and says "screw this" and wanders off - that's a totally legitimate response and I'm really not looking for validation in the sense of "awesome game! that was fun!"... it's not fun, it just is what it is. ... Anyway, really interesting to have this conversation - I appreciate it a lot.

Since you set out to question the nature of games and to do an experiment I'll give you some very forthright feedback.

Basically, you're being a douche and am happy with it. I'm glad you enjoyed the conversation since you were the only one, just as this wasn't an experiment in art games: it was an experiment for your own sake and no one else's. And I was being sarcastic with the "US-centricsm" remark. I'll be sure to use <sarcasm> tags next time for your benefit.

My feedback: You set out to make an art game and managed to make something that is neither art not a game but rather a low-res virtual visualisation of a particular exhibit at NY's museum of modern art. Fail.

[pigpen]

You definitely should make it obvious that it's real time.
And i also would advise a sidequest to get a brick so that you can smash open the windowed door with because that's some pretentious bullshit right there.

[pippinbarr]

PPS- for me, Marcel Duchamp already answered the argument 'can games be art' :] if a urinal can be, surely a game can too.. But then what?

Hah! Yeah, absolutely. I was really just kidding around with the claim that this game has much of anything to do with the "are games art" thing - it's not a question I care too much about, and they're a medium, anyway. There's a sense in which it's incidental that this game depicts an art installation, more about picking a scenario that breaks with certain assumptions in games and also plays with the rigid nature of museum/gallery going - don't touch, queue here, etc., all very easily implemented in game rules.

[pippinbarr]

Basically, you're being a douche and am happy with it. I'm glad you enjoyed the conversation since you were the only one, just as this wasn't an experiment in art games: it was an experiment for your own sake and no one else's. And I was being sarcastic with the "US-centricsm" remark. I'll be sure to use <sarcasm> tags next time for your benefit.

My feedback: You set out to make an art game and managed to make something that is neither art not a game but rather a low-res virtual visualisation of a particular exhibit at NY's museum of modern art. Fail.

Whoa... touched a nerve, I guess? Definitely part of the plan, too - I think it's pretty great that you seem to feel so pissed off about it, though I guess on the balance I'd prefer it you were just like "not for me" and moved on or something. Anyway, I did enjoy the conversation - sorry you didn't.