next »

[ChevyRay]

which indie games do you admire?

stuff

You didn't answer his question

[CyanPrime]

This is not necessarily true. Your Fall game can be remade exactly how it is now in Game Maker.

But I bet it'd have a lot more bloat, and run a lot worse.

[Skofo]

But you've been implying that games automagically look better when they're made in C++ instead of Game Maker.

[CyanPrime]

But you've been implying that games automagically look better when they're made in C++ instead of Game Maker.

Not automagically. I think there's more effort put into a C++ game than a Game Maker game. now am I saying that Fall is better than Iji? OF COURSE No, sadly it is not, but would Iji coded with C++ have been better than  what we got in Game Maker if Iji's creator had the same skill in C++ as he did/does in Game Maker? Yes.

[Christian Knudsen]

I would get involved normally but that takes too much time, and I think I'd just end up getting called a roll and banned, as this normally happens to the forums I try to be active in.

[...]

Also what are some tips to not get angry/aggressive/mean replies to my posts?

Don't start a thread with a post like this:

I'm sorry but I feel like Game/RPG Maker games are like HTML templet sites, or sites made with DreamWeaver. They're always low quality, eat ram like a MoFo. Hosted at yoyogames. Bah, just bah. I have more respect for Bob's Game (And I hate that guy and his game) than I do for Game/RPG Maker games.

Is anyone else like this or is it just me?

[CyanPrime]

I would get involved normally but that takes too much time, and I think I'd just end up getting called a roll and banned, as this normally happens to the forums I try to be active in.

[...]

Also what are some tips to not get angry/aggressive/mean replies to my posts?

Don't start a thread with a post like this:

I'm sorry but I feel like Game/RPG Maker games are like HTML templet sites, or sites made with DreamWeaver. They're always low quality, eat ram like a MoFo. Hosted at yoyogames. Bah, just bah. I have more respect for Bob's Game (And I hate that guy and his game) than I do for Game/RPG Maker games.

Is anyone else like this or is it just me?

Oh yeah, an off topic ad-hominid REEEEEEEEALLY proves your point.

[Christian Knudsen]

What point? I've never used Game Maker/RPG Maker in my life. You were asking for advice to not get banned or get angry replies, and my advice is to not start threads where you piss on every game made with Game Maker/RPG Maker...

[CyanPrime]

What point? I've never used Game Maker/RPG Maker in my life. You were asking for advice to not get banned or get angry replies, and my advice is to not start threads were you piss on every game made with Game Maker/RPG Maker...

Than you could avoid looking like a jackass (at least to me) by next time a) Making the post in the relevant thread (Make the reply in the thread where I was asking for advice not to get banned) or even better send it as a PM instead. You weren't trying to help, so don't act like you were. You were trying to be funny at my expense, which is bullshit.

[Skofo]

I think you're discounting workflow efficiency in favor of technical efficiency a bit too blindly. The reason people use higher-level tools is to get results faster. Yes, things made with higher-level tools usually sacrifice some performance, but computers have been getting exponentially better over the years to the point where that may very well be negligible for the typical 2D indie game.

Iji would probably run better if it were made in C++, but it would also probably take quite a bit longer to make, if it would end up being made at all. In fact, Iji might even have ended up being not as fun or polished because it is more cumbersome to experiment around and prototype in low-level languages.

Use the right tool for the job.

[Christian Knudsen]

What point? I've never used Game Maker/RPG Maker in my life. You were asking for advice to not get banned or get angry replies, and my advice is to not start threads were you piss on every game made with Game Maker/RPG Maker...

Than you could avoid looking like a jackass (at least to me) by next time a) Making the post in the relevant thread (Make the reply in the thread where I was asking for advice not to get banned) or even better send it as a PM instead. You weren't trying to help, so don't act like you were. You were trying to be funny at my expense, which is bullshit.

Wow.

[Mikademus]

@mikademus: i didn't choose the games on the basis of graphics actually. that would have been interesting, but my purpose was to showcase the best game maker games, not the best-looking game maker games. i didn't expect people to harshly negatively judge a game based on three seconds of footage, i guess i overestimated the viewers

(my italics)

(About the italics:) Please, that's pretty low, not to say passive-aggressive. You make a mistake based on flawed reasoning and blame everyone else, as well as implying me as reflexively judgemental and shallow. :sigh: If you don't want your viewers to base their judgement on a few seconds of footage, then give more and perhaps tell them why what they see is good so they can look beyond the mere cosmetic.

which indie games do you admire?

stuff

You didn't answer his question

Yeah, you're right, sorry. Well, some Indie games I admire: of course Spelunky, it is creative and enjoyable. The particular reasons I like it is because it reminds me of some old-school games (more specifically Rick Dangerous, Montezuma's Revenge, and Miner [the game where you flew a guy with a backpack chopper through mines]). The new takes on Sam and Max are very well made, funny and artistic. The Danmaku bullet-hell games are wonderful (even though I suck at them). I played a lot of Dwarf Fortress until it stole too much of my life and I removed it for my own health's sake. I truly admire Aquaria for the perseverance of the makers, their artistic ambitions and for managing to remain true to traditional action-adventure while at the same time bringing something new. If people are actually interested in hearing me talk about this I'd be happy to make a tread about it

[CyanPrime]

I think you're discounting workflow efficiency in favor of technical efficiency a bit too blindly. The reason people use higher-level tools is to get results faster. Yes, things made with higher-level tools usually sacrifice some performance, but computers have been getting exponentially better over the years to the point where that may very well be negligible for the typical 2D indie game.

Iji would probably run better if it were made in C++, but it would also probably take quite a bit longer to make, if it would end up being made at all. In fact, Iji might even have ended up being not as fun or polished because it is more cumbersome to experiment around and prototype in low-level languages.

Use the right tool for the job.

Hmm, I guess I never thought of it like that. You have a good point. Maybe your right, and I shouldn't be so hard on Game Maker....makers. I just always looked at a indie game as the sum of it's programming since I am a C++ and Java programmer myself. But I never thought about it being the sum of it's time.


Also, yeah. I could see the uses for prototyping in game maker.

I dunno though. If you're not good enough to figure out a real programming lang, than are you good enough to produce a good, fun, non-buggy game? I think that if you're good enough to make a game like Iji that C++ shouldn't even be a problem for you.

[Glaiel-Gamer]

Iji would probably run better if it were made in C++, but it would also probably take quite a bit longer to make, if it would end up being made at all. In fact, Iji might even have ended up being not as fun or polished because it is more cumbersome to experiment around and prototype in low-level languages.

Use the right tool for the job.

C++ doesn't automatically make you less efficient though...  depends on the project at hand.

I got the closure c++ engine up and running in about the same time it took me to get it up and running in flash and it is still my first real game in c++, I'm just spending a tremendously long time working on it because it needs to be tremendously better than the flash one, and the flexibility I get in c++ with being able to control my own engine and modify it to my needs actually boosts my efficiency since I don't have to work around anything.

[PGGB]

I dunno though. If you're not good enough to figure out a real programming lang, than are you good enough to produce a good, fun, non-buggy game? I think that if you're good enough to make a game like Iji that C++ shouldn't even be a problem for you.

C++ is just a horrible language. The only big advantage is its performace. And guess what, that advantage is useless for 99% of indie games since they are not really that taxing performance-wise.

[Skofo]

C++ is just a horrible language.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the perfect example of trollbait.

[salade]

Iji would probably run better if it were made in C++, but it would also probably take quite a bit longer to make, if it would end up being made at all.

Iji is especially a good example of this since it was already a four year undertaking on Daniel Remar's part.

Anyway, if coder's are so angry at gamemaker making it easy to get out games that eat up memory and have higher system requirements, then they should try to make an alternative for GM users. I don't think many game maker users are married to the tool, they just want to make games.

If only the monocle engine didn't die...

Was the Monocle Engine ever really alive in the first place?

Nope.

C++ is just a horrible language. The only big advantage is its performace. And guess what, that advantage is useless for 99% of indie games since they are not really that taxing performance-wise.

Ughh, this conversation has been been beaten to death in this forum.

[Enshoku]

I think you're discounting workflow efficiency in favor of technical efficiency a bit too blindly. The reason people use higher-level tools is to get results faster. Yes, things made with higher-level tools usually sacrifice some performance, but computers have been getting exponentially better over the years to the point where that may very well be negligible for the typical 2D indie game.

Iji would probably run better if it were made in C++, but it would also probably take quite a bit longer to make, if it would end up being made at all. In fact, Iji might even have ended up being not as fun or polished because it is more cumbersome to experiment around and prototype in low-level languages.

Use the right tool for the job.

Hmm, I guess I never thought of it like that. You have a good point. Maybe your right, and I shouldn't be so hard on Game Maker....makers. I just always looked at a indie game as the sum of it's programming since I am a C++ and Java programmer myself. But I never thought about it being the sum of it's time.

You seem to be implying that GML isnt a very good language for programming, but I must say as someone who only know two languages, GML beats the hell out of ruby. Its restrictive, but not overly so, and the only time that really comes into play is when you wish to design a feature or mechanic that falls fairly far outside the boundaries of the typical events and actions system, which has only happened twice to me in 3+ years of using it.

[Skofo]

Was the Monocle Engine ever really alive in the first place?

[Mikademus]

C++ is just a horrible language. The only big advantage is its performace. And guess what, that advantage is useless for 99% of indie games since they are not really that taxing performance-wise.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the perfect example of trollbait.

Indeed. But I'll nibble anyway. I use C++ both professionally (IT consulting) and for my own game projects. The language allows me to address all kinds of problems at the level that's required with the tools and solutions that are suitable as well as express all my intent and ideas cleanly in code. C++ is also the only language I know that allows you to represent the system architecture directly in the source code (if you didn't get what I meant by that, an easy explanation and example is that you can directly represent all Gamma et al's design patters directly in C++ code). As such it is anything but a horrible language. It is a demanding language, though, because it is powerful and because it trusts you to know what you're doing.

Btw, PGGB, did you know that 99% of all statistics is made up on the spot?

I must say as someone who only know two languages, GML beats the hell out of ruby.

Wow, that was a bit unexpected. I myself love Ruby and think it is a very expressive, readable and aesthetic language. GML on the other hand reads and writes as a bucket of warts and is ripe with WTFs (there are several threads about that in this forum), which might be only personal opinions, of course. Still, I'd like to think of myself as a reasonably experienced and proficient judge of computer languages.

[Enshoku]

I must say as someone who only know two languages, GML beats the hell out of ruby.

Wow, that was a bit unexpected. I myself love Ruby and think it is a very expressive, readable and aesthetic language. GML on the other hand reads and writes as a bucket of warts and is ripe with WTFs (there are several threads about that in this forum), which might be only personal opinions, of course. Still, I'd like to think of myself as a reasonably experienced and proficient judge of computer languages.

For general programming, I tend to stick to ruby, but I find gml much nicer to work with when I have a clear cut idea for a video game.