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[Gorgoo]

I have Flash CS3, but unfortunately don't know how to do much in it aside from animate (which, yes, I know is its primary function. But we're an indie game forum here. ). I'm sure I can find tutorials, so I'm not going to ask people to teach me, although if anyone does know a particularly good tutorial that's not in the Tutorial Dump thread, I'd appreciate it.

That's not really what I wanted to ask, though. I have a few questions that I'm not sure generalized tutorials would answer, and I figured this would be a good place to ask them:

Do I need anything other than Flash?
OK, I actually doubt that I absolutely need anything, but is there something I should get? I'm mainly thinking about things like libraries and such for games, unless Actionscript is simple enough that I won't be reinventing the wheel when I make something simple. Is it?
I'm assuming, by the way, that Flash is a good enough IDE to program in the language designed for it, but I might be wrong, which is why this is the first question.

Which Actionscript should I use?
Actionscript 3 is obviously the newest, and I would assume that means it's the best (also, I've read that in a few places), but is it supported by tutorials yet? By libraries and classes? Would it be better to learn the basics of Actionscript 2 and then learn how to convert to 3? Would it be better to just work in Actionscript 2 for the time being?

How well does Flash work with bigger projects?
I've heard that Flash slows down dramatically when projects get bigger. How big is this referring to? Would, say, a full-length SNES-style game fit in Flash, or is it really limited to the minigames it's usually seen with?

Also, if one were to, say, create an engine and shell in Flash but load individual enemy data (sprites, possibly behavior and such) and possibly maps from outside folders or a database of some sort, would this relieve the problem some? Would it even be possible?

Is it worth it to learn Actionscript?
Alright, so making games in Flash lets me embed them in webpages, which gives a much bigger audience than games that have to be downloaded to be played, so I know there's that. What I'm really asking, though, is whether or not Flash is simple enough to make games in (once I know Actionscript, of course) that it's worth the effort to learn, assuming hobby games is what I plan to do in it.

Also, because I'm currently learning Java, I'm wondering whether or not I should try to use Actionscript as a sort of "transition" language from Game Maker's simplicity to Java (or another language)'s more powerful complexity. Is Flash powerful enough that, after learning it, I won't need to worry too much about its limitations? Is it different enough from either that, whether or not it's worth learning, I shouldn't think of it as a transition at all?


I know that these are a lot of questions, but, as a complete beginner in Actionscript, I kind of want to get a feel before I jump right in.
Thanks.

[Cagey]

Do I need anything other than Flash?

You already have everything you need to get started. I personally prefer working with FlashDevelop because it's nicer to code in, but it definitely is not necessary. You can use FlashDevelop together with the Flash IDE so it's worth giving it a look. If you're after libraries, there aren't any specific 'must-have's but there are plenty of very useful libs. Take a look here (They're mostly for AS3).

Which Actionscript should I use?

If you're already familiar with Java, AS3 will be a much easier transition than AS2 simply because the syntax is quite similar. AS2 may be easier to get up and running quickly, but its worth learning AS3 for all the benefits it provides. It is far far faster than AS2, it supports object oriented programming (like Java) and has a wider range of libraries.

How well does Flash work with bigger projects?

Have a look at what the ffilmation engine is capable of. This demo is a great-looking, large and complex flash game that loads it's assets externally.

Is it worth it to learn Actionscript?

The major benefits of Flash over GameMaker would be the ease of distribution, and the potential to enter the commercial flash game market. Otherwise what both can achieve would be reasonably similar. I think it is safe to say that you wouldn't be limited by creating games in Flash.

I wouldn't consider AS3 a 'transition' language from GML to Java because all three really are very different. The most important part of Flash is how it handles the rendering and this differs greatly from how GameMaker and Java handle it. Otherwise, AS3 isn't a bad way to be introduced to object oriented languages.

In case you're interested, I wrote a basic tutorial for AS3 using FlashDevelop here.

Best of luck! Feel free to ask any more Flash related questions 'round here. There seems to be quite a few flash coders now.

[Aik]

Which Actionscript should I use?

3. 2 is horrible. Plus there are more resources for 3.

How well does Flash work with bigger projects?

I'm not sure what size it starts breaking down, but it's definately broken by the time the .fla file gets to 200mb (accidently loaded an uncompressed music file into it once and yeah - bang. Of course, this was a few versions ago (Flash 8, I think)).
I'm not sure how much space a SNES game takes up, but I have some ~30mb .fla files that are fine. You could probably experiment with this.

Is it worth it to learn Actionscript?

Keeping in mind that I passionately hate Flash, no, I don't think so. Stick with Java. It's far less horrible.

[BorisTheBrave]

Do I need anything other than Flash?

As said before you don't need anything. You don't even need Flash, if you use Flex to compile. I'd also recommend Flashdevelop.

Which Actionscript should I use?

As above, AS3.

How well does Flash work with bigger projects?

Yes, all the horror stories you hear about are from getting the Flash IDE to deal with large files. The player is perfectly happy, and AS3 is advanced enough to be ok for large projects. For tons of assets, use a dynamic loader (best), shared library, or compile with Flex.

Is it worth it to learn Actionscript?

I think AS3 would make a good transition language. It's more disciplined than gamemaker, but less than Java, while introducing a lot of the concepts that will become mandatory in Java. It resembles Java somewhat (via JavaScript).
But I wouldn't bother to learn it purely for that reason. If you have no interest in actually making stuff for Flash, jump straight into Java. You do find that producing Flash games means spending a certain amount of time coding around the language, and this is not a useful skill for doing anything else.

[Skofo]

3. 2 is horrible. Plus there are more resources for 3.

Hahaha, no. Go and see how many tutorials there are for AS2 and then check how relatively little there are for AS3. But Box2D and APE (physics engines) are for AS3, plus AS3 is more efficient and organized, so I think that AS3 is better if you're planning on using efficient rigid body physics, graphical effects or big projects in general.

Stick with Java. It's far less horrible.

HAHAHA.  :D :D :D

[Alex May]

Stick with Java. It's far less horrible.

HAHAHA.  :D :D :D

Every language and API has its ups and downs. Don't be so closed-minded to judge things in this fashion. It doesn't make you look any cooler than you already do, and believe me more than a few people have noticed how uncool you in fact are.

[Skofo]

Stick with Java. It's far less horrible.

HAHAHA.  :D :D :D

Every language and API has its ups and downs. Don't be so closed-minded to judge things in this fashion. It doesn't make you look any cooler than you already do, and believe me more than a few people have noticed how uncool you in fact are.

Uh oh.

Someone's maaaaaaaaad...

I think you just used that as an excuse to pick on me. If you agreed at all with what you just said, you'd call out Aik for saying that Actionscript is far more horrible than Java. I just laughed at what Aik said. For all you know, I could've also meant that every language and API has its ups and downs, which is exactly what you said, besides the part about me being uncool, that's arbitrary, but hey, at least now I know that you're not a fan.

But yeah, I agree with what you said about every programming language/API having their own strengths and weaknesses, just like everything else in the world.

[Alex May]

Well yeah. Aik's post is not much cop either. Yes I was picking on you a bit, I've been reading a few threads today and all I've seen from you is pointless negativity and argumentative nonsense. Personally I'd appreciate it if you sorted it out, but it's up to you of course and my opinion probably won't sway you much

[Skofo]

Well yeah. Aik's post is not much cop either. Yes I was picking on you a bit, I've been reading a few threads today and all I've seen from you is pointless negativity and argumentative nonsense. Personally I'd appreciate it if you sorted it out, but it's up to you of course and my opinion probably won't sway you much

Most likely not. 

But here's a cookie!

[Terry]

So, what, we can expect more pointless negativity and argumentative nonsense from you in the future?

Christ, you're annoying. Why the hell haven't you been banned yet? Go troll somewhere else.

[Skofo]

So, what, we can expect more pointless negativity and argumentative nonsense from you in the future?

No, I meant 'most likely not' as in his opinions will most likely not sway me. Most of my posts aren't all that negative, a lot of them are just disagreeing with the points made by other people. I am sorry if debate hurts your feelings. I do however make positive, cheerful and other non-negative posts, especially ones praising games that I feel deserve praise.

Christ, you're annoying. Why the hell haven't you been banned yet? Go troll somewhere else.

Ow, that hurts. I'm sorry that you do not like me, and I'm sorry that you think that unlikability is fair grounds for banning people. Not many like a critic (even though a lot of my posts aren't critical). I can assure you, though, I am no troll.

P.S. I am not Christ, either.

[Alex May]

Debate is fine. Just try not to be such an asshole about it? For the common good 

[Skofo]

Debate is fine. Just try not to be such an asshole about it? For the common good 

I am tryiiiinnng. I think that you may notice a steady decline in my assholishness since my earlier posts. Someone needs to make a line chart...

[Problem Machine]

Ahem... back to the topic.
Personally, I try to avoid Flash (the program) whenever possible, and work entirely from Flex or Flashdevelop (depending upon the project). I think the Flash authoring tool is a great program for animations and an absolutely wretched one for scripting.

Also, if you're going to be doing a lot of AS animations I'd recommend grabbing tweener from the list posted earlier. It's incredibly useful, and with a small amount of effort you can create some really nice looking and entirely programmatic animations.

Like everyone else says, AS3 is far superior, particularly for games programming.

Also, if one were to, say, create an engine and shell in Flash but load individual enemy data (sprites, possibly behavior and such) and possibly maps from outside folders or a database of some sort, would this relieve the problem some? Would it even be possible?

To some degree. AFAIK Flash is somewhat limited in terms of the kinds of files it can parse. Image data, swfs, mp3s, and xml files are all okay; anything else, maybe not so much. It's possible to create your game data in those formats, but it's certainly not as open ended as being able to parse binary data however you want.
Setting up a dynamic loader like that would be the way you'd want to do it for a project of any size though.

What I'm really asking, though, is whether or not Flash is simple enough to make games in (once I know Actionscript, of course) that it's worth the effort to learn, assuming hobby games is what I plan to do in it.

I think so. I believe Flash makes it a lot more feasible to try to make a profit off of small scale games. I wouldn't use it to create a huge RPG, but for a shmup or puzzle game it would be a great medium.

[John Nesky]

it's certainly not as open ended as being able to parse binary data however you want.

Sure it can. You can grab a ByteArray off of a URLLoader or an embedded asset, and parse it however you like.

I definitely recommend NOT using Flash CS3 as an IDE, though it's fine for making graphics and animations.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

The major benefits of Flash over GameMaker would be the ease of distribution, and the potential to enter the commercial flash game market. Otherwise what both can achieve would be reasonably similar. I think it is safe to say that you wouldn't be limited by creating games in Flash.

Most good GM games could not be ported Flash without decreasing the quality of their graphics fairly heavily. For instance, afaik, Flash doesn't support transparency, additive blending, or even hardware acceleration, whereas GM does.

Flash is primarily an animation system, it wasn't intended for game design, so like in C++ you'd need to code a lot from scratch that you wouldn't with GM, so development is also much faster in GM.

I'm not saying to choose GM over Flash, I'm considering learning Flash myself, I'm just saying you do lose a lot of functionality between GM and Flash.

[Skofo]

The major benefits of Flash over GameMaker would be the ease of distribution, and the potential to enter the commercial flash game market. Otherwise what both can achieve would be reasonably similar. I think it is safe to say that you wouldn't be limited by creating games in Flash.

Most good GM games could not be ported Flash without decreasing the quality of their graphics fairly heavily. For instance, afaik, Flash doesn't support transparency, additive blending, or even hardware acceleration, whereas GM does.

Flash is primarily an animation system, it wasn't intended for game design, so like in C++ you'd need to code a lot from scratch that you wouldn't with GM, so development is also much faster in GM.

I'm not saying to choose GM over Flash, I'm considering learning Flash myself, I'm just saying you do lose a lot of functionality between GM and Flash.

Does this count as hardware acceleration?

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

No, because that's just support for hardware acceleration with respect to scaling sprites (or perhaps just the entire window?). It's not true hardware acceleration in the normal sense of the term.

As an analogy, would it count as "playing a game" if you clicked "start" on the title screen and then closed the game?

[Problem Machine]

Sure it can. You can grab a ByteArray off of a URLLoader or an embedded asset, and parse it however you like.

Neat! I'll have to look into that.

For instance, afaik, Flash doesn't support transparency, additive blending, or even hardware acceleration, whereas GM does.

Flash supports transparency in png files, and I think you can set blend modes on display objects once you have them in.
I believe the hardware acceleration was also supposed to be expanded in Flash 10, but I don't know to what degree.

[Gnarf]

Most good GM games could not be ported Flash without decreasing the quality of their graphics fairly heavily. For instance, afaik, Flash doesn't support transparency, additive blending, or even hardware acceleration, whereas GM does.

Flash supports transparency and additive blending (and other kinds of blending). And what Kobel said. I haven't paid attention to the hardware acceleration situation, but it's been in the works for a while at least. There was some fuss about a beta of Flash 10 or something a while back and something about that stuff or somethingsomethingsomething. It's on its way anyway.