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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperPlaytestingDungeon of Doom
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SirNoodles
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« on: August 30, 2010, 08:27:55 PM »

I recently posted a video of the game I have been working on for the competition over at YoYoGames.com, and I am finally finished with it, so I though, "Why not post it?" This is the first game I have ever truly completed in about four years, so I am quite proud, especially because this was only a months work off and on. If you guys like it enough, feel free to vote for me in the competition! I would be quite grateful.  Smiley However, I am also looking for some strong criticism, especially in the level design department, where I feel myself to be most flawed.




Windows Only unfortunately, sorry Mac Users!
And The Download Link:
http://www.mediafire.com/?bqjau44c43ggij4

Thanks, and have a great day!  Coffee




« Last Edit: August 30, 2010, 09:15:48 PM by SirNoodles » Logged
deathtotheweird
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« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2010, 10:29:02 PM »

this game could really benefit from more checkpoints. I kept mistiming my jumps on the disappearing purple blocks bit and it was quite tedious to do the same stuff over and over. Equally frustrating is beating the first boss and then leaving the room to be hit by a stupid snake and have to be reset before the boss fight. At the very least, make it auto-save after the boss fight. Incredibly frustrated, I quit. Which is a shame because I really enjoyed every thing else about it.

Oh, I also had to mute the game because that beeping with the purple things was so incredibly annoying.

other than the checkpoint system, the level design seemed to be ok. The first non-combat stuff is a bit too much fluff and should be condensed a bit, since there isn't really anything interesting to see.

Dropping down from the second checkpoint only to hit the spikes on the side wasn't very fun or interesting level design. You have little time to react, so it just feels like I'm being punished randomly.

The spikes on flat ground were a bit superfluous as well.

the bat movement was a bit silly, and not being able to kill them while they were hanging was annoying.

the boss's beam attack was very hard to avoid, as jumping on to the other blocks usually makes you hit the star things he spits out, or does nothing at all since timing your jump before he shoots the beam is pretty hard. its also unfair that right after the boss fight you are shoved onto a room with snakes with only a split second to avoid. with one health leftover, you could imagine my frustrating.
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bicilotti
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« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2010, 12:27:07 PM »

Very retro, very solid!

I enjoyed its chuncky graphics, level design and unforgiving controls (yes, the last one might be pure nostalgia).

As allen said, the first part wasn't that intersting, but in my opinion it was necessary to get confident with the game world.

Hope to see more from you.

edit --- let me state one thing I didn't like: I've downloaded the .exe on my deskop folder and he "spammed" it with savegames. Wink Maybe a .zip could solve the problem?
« Last Edit: August 31, 2010, 12:34:04 PM by bicilotti » Logged

deathtotheweird
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« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2010, 04:53:38 PM »

I guess what you mean is put the exe in a folder and then zip it up so it extracts into its own folder? it really only takes two seconds to create a folder yourself anyways.
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SirNoodles
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« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2010, 05:22:35 PM »

Many, many thanks for the replies guys!

@allen: I really have to agree with most of the points you made. I have been watching people play it recently and have really come to realize how unforgiving the checkpoint locations are. I will be sure to change that in the future. And yes, the beeping is retardedly annoying, I could definitely stand to make some changes in the sound department... I should also make a slightly bigger delay between the boss' shots as well. Thanks for playing Smiley

@bicilotti: Thanks very much, I'm glad you like it Smiley I will most definitely put it into a zip next time, I just uploaded it as an exe due to the competition's requirements, so the next version will certainly be a zip.

Thanks to everyone who played (even if you didn't comment) and I am looking forward to more feedback/criticism!
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sinoth
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« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2010, 05:53:43 PM »

After the first room where you see bats, I went right and somehow managed to jump through the far right wall.  I kept looping through empty rooms, falling and falling.  A few other places I was able to wedge myself halfway into a wall, but could free myself by moving the opposite direction.  Not sure what is causing it but you can definitely glitch yourself into objects.

Also, in this room if you just barely jump enough to make the room transition, you fall back down and the room stays stuck without the player in it:


I enjoyed it, could definitely use a few more checkpoints though Smiley
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SirNoodles
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« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2010, 06:03:15 PM »

Thanks for letting me know sinoth, that helps me out a bunch. Throughout my testing I have never had any problems with that happening, but I will be sure to find out how to fix it. Thanks again Smiley
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Ataraxic
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« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2010, 06:47:36 AM »

My post could essentially just be a copy/paste of what Allen said. Checkpoints, bats, spikes...

I quit before I could even beat the first boss. It's far too frustrating and a huge jump in difficulty. Minimal standing ground, spikes, shooty thingys, and that beam which is near-impossible to avoid. I'd remove one or two of those elements for the first fight.

Also I didn't see it mentioned, but in the red-tinted rooms it was very difficult to see how much health I had left.

Besides the negatives, the game was solid, and I'd definitely play again if you make a new version.
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baconman
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« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2010, 12:54:17 PM »

First few rooms could use some simple, introductory combat. 5 screens of no hazards whatsoever (or power-up/gold-looting potential) is just a waste of unutilized space. Once you're past that, it's pretty solid and fun. Music could use a tiny touch-up... it's missing a little something.
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mikewest
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« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2010, 11:32:05 AM »

I hope this helps, and I hope it doesn't come off as negative- I don't intend it to.  I just mean for it to be constructive.
I played the game for about an hour and a half or two hours before I just got too frustrated by a couple of things.  Giving up made me really sad, because there were some pretty sweet elements in that game that I know I would have liked in the absence of the frustration.  I would love to try an undated version though!  If you make one, message me and I will definitely give some updated thoughts.

Generally negatives:

I agree with everyone else on checkpoints.  Honestly, after I finally made it to the second checkpoint, I was frustrated enough to stop playing after the boss killed me a couple of times.  (I picked it back up and got as far as the first three rooms with the candle, but then just got too frustrated again.)  All my other comments sort of hinge on this- if I hadn't been frustrated by checkpoints, the other little things wouldn't have bothered me.

The only other major annoyance was the controls.  I had a bit of trouble running and jumping off ledges.  It seemed that when I ran, the jump command was disabled if part of my sprite was hanging over the edge.  I felt like the game was asking for pixel perfect action, but the controls did not give me the ability to execute those actions.

Generally positives:
 
I really dug the atmosphere you created with the castle/ladder/skulls graphics, nice job there.  I thought you nailed the whole old castle vibe.  In the beginning, this alone kept me wanting to play- very aesthetically pleasing for me.  Minor thing: The spikes didn't really look like spikes to me (they were dark, so I assumed they were background, so I died the first time I saw them).

As for sounds, footsteps sounded like distortion than anything else to me.  Boss music was particularly cool, but I would have liked to have some ambient tracks for the rest of the game.

The power-ups.  Sword that smashes things- meh, okay I expect that.  Wall jump, oh my goodness yes.  I haven't played many games with wall jumps in a castle setting, so this one surprised me in a great way (it suffered a bit from the controls though).  Candle lit, hm not unexpected, but still quite cool.  The use of negative space really worked with that.

Level design.  I can only comment on the levels that I played.  The idea of recycling levels was awesome- it made each room really feel like a piece of a castle rather than just a screen.  So, hats off to you in that respect.  None of the puzzles made me think at all- it was all about executing actions.  If that's why you were going for, then you definitely achieved it.  I am working on level design for the first time, so I completely understand how little help this comment will be, but I would have liked some puzzles that I had to think about and then plan my actions accordingly.  The levels felt very linear in that there was only ever one possible solution of where to go/how to get there in my head.

Bugs?
The room where you get the candle- the balls changed positions on me one time.  They made it impossible to get to the candle without taking damage.
Also, was every enemy supposed to drop gold on death?  My first few lives, it seemed that way, but then it changed to some probabilistic function.  It might be a bit more reinforcing if it happened all the time.


Summary/Conclusion:
Okay.  So summary, all of this is just my opinion and I am only one person.  The graphics, power-ups and recycled levels all made want to be able to say I really enjoyed the game, but the controls and checkpoints quickly turned the fun into frustration.  But in any case, great job for a first completed game!

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idoru
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« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2010, 10:30:33 PM »

I felt like the game was asking for pixel perfect action, but the controls did not give me the ability to execute those actions.

This is how I felt through the entire game. I persevered and finished it, but I sure died a lot because the controls were inconsistent.

The two or three rooms that require jumping just onto the edge of a block to avoid spikes (while simultaneously attempting to sync with the purple blocks) are extremely frustrating. The jumps require precision but the player moves horizontally too quickly to allow the necessary control. The result tends toward a luck-based outcome rather than skill-based.

The other problem with control is the inconsistency of jumping. From what I can tell, it seems you can either jump while standing still or jump after running a bit, but not right when you start running. Or at least this is how it felt; I just know there were times I pressed the button to jump and nothing happened. This resulted in many instances of running headlong into pits of lava or spikes.

All of that said, I was eventually able to get a feel for the controls and play around their inconsistency.

I like the graphic style you've got going and the general presentation of everything. The colors work well also; most things are quite readable. It wasn't immediately obvious that the candles could be broken, but perhaps that was intentional.

In terms of level design, I think you've done a very good job with a couple exceptions. As mentioned already, the beginning is a bit tedious because nothing really happens. I think one room with a ladder and blocks to initially convey how to climb and jump is really all that is necessary. Also, the fall from the ladder of one room onto the spikes in the room below is a bit of a cheap shot. There are also some areas near the end where it seems impossible to get through without losing at least one heart. But it may be that I just didn't play those areas enough. Otherwise, the rooms compelled me to keep going (frustrating as that was, at times) and gave a real sense of accomplishment when reaching the next checkpoint. I particularly liked that some rooms had to be gone through a second time but in the opposite direction. I also liked the slight puzzle element to at least one room (the dark one with a ladder, breakable block, and purple ball moving horizontally in the crossing corridor). The variety of room types was good, though there may have been a few too many "spikes and purple blocks" rooms.

For the most part I like the enemies, but feel there should have been one more mobile critter in addition to the bat and snake. I agree with earlier posts that it feels wrong that the bats can't be hit except when flying. However, I think it results in better gameplay because it requires more thought. You can't just sit back and shoot it; you have to either run under it or get close enough while it's flying to hit it and in both cases risk getting hit. In general, the dynamic of that decision would benefit from an incentive to fight enemies for the loot they drop. From what I can tell, there is no way to spend it.

I really liked the bosses. I didn't seem to have trouble with the first like others have. There is one block that if you stand on in the right spot makes the fight extremely easy. It is close enough that you don't have to move for your weapon to hit the boss and the vertical beam misses every time. Also while standing on this block, only one of the thrown blades can hit. So it's easy to simply blast the boss with your weapon while occasionally jumping to dodge a thrown blade. The second boss, in my opinion, was the most difficult but was also my favorite. I don't know if it's intentional, but the player takes no damage from touching the boss in bat form. The last boss wasn't a cakewalk but wasn't too difficult, either. The falling fire doesn't seem to reach the very back of the room, so I was able to lay into the boss, jump back for a bit, and repeat.

I was kind of surprised when the game ended after that boss fight because I was really getting into things at that point. Not that I don't appreciate the work you've put into this, but I think it would be great if expanded and the controls improved.

On the technical side of things, the game was a bit sluggish at times. Near the end I started getting slow down for some reason. Not enough to make it unplayable, but enough to be noticeable. There was one instance where I was hit by a monster and got teleported to the far left side of the room. I was leaving the room on the right side just as I was hit, so I wonder if the coordinates got updated for the room I was going into but the room hadn't yet changed? There was also one time I died while the screen was shaking and the screen kept shaking when I restarted at the checkpoint. Dying again did not stop the shaking; I had to quit and restart.

And one final thing: I don't agree with those saying the checkpoints should be closer together. For the most part I think they're fine as they are. It's mainly the controls causing difficulties, not the checkpoint locations. I will agree, though, that it's annoying to sometimes have to go through two very difficult rooms to reach a boss after restarting from a checkpoint (I'm referring to the second boss, here). Overall, I like that the checkpoints were spread out because it gave me a sense of accomplishment when finally getting through a section.

Thanks for the game! I did enjoy it despite the frustration.
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