next »

[larsiusprime]

How bout these?

College Ruled Universe
Echoes of Eternia
Mobile Frame Zero
Conquest
Better RPG tools
Aura Tactics
Stelcon Infinity
Risus Free Adventure Project
Prof. Cats Mazing Machine
Gunship First Strike
Mecha Galaxy
Americana Dawn
Outreach
Spike a Love Story Too
Saturday Morning RPG

Who knows if the model has long term legs, but I think it's pretty clear that, at least for now, if you have a realistic goal, a good pitch, and are able to inspire confidence you stand a decent chance.

Stats from Kickstarter:
http://www.kickstarter.com/blog/happy-birthday-kickstarter

Key takeaways:
-43% of all projects succeed (all categories, not just games)
-90% of projects that reach 30% of their funding ultimately succeed

Stats are slightly old, but interesting.

[Blademasterbobo]

If you're unknown, I think it helps to have some work already done. FTL had a demo that was playable during the kickstarter.

[deathtotheweird]

I'd probably contribute to a lot more kickstarters if they had something playable.

[larsiusprime]

One thing I like about Kickstarter is that they leave old project pages up, so it's easy to do some data-mining. Next time I have some free time I'd like to analyze the correlations between success / funding rates and playable demos / prototypes!

[team_q]

You know what kills Indie game kickstartering? Kickstarting a game and it not being released 2.5 years later. PAUL.(Though he isn't the only one)

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

i'm trying to beat duke nukem's record

although if i recall, cactus has me beat; he allowed people to pre-order braindead toon underworld long before i put up the SD kickstarter

[Capntastic]

I still regret not getting in on the SD Kickstarter.  I literally found out about it something like two days after it ended.

[Klaim]

One thing that alienate me is that there is still no way for non-us citizen to have a project on kickstarter. There is like indiegogo too but its far less effective (but it works).

[TeeGee]

Yeah, this sucks big time. I still can't get why they don't want expand outside of US. After all, it's their profit.

[larsiusprime]

I'm pretty sure they'd like to expand outside the US, but there's a huge tangle of international and domestic regulations and so my best guess is they're taking it one step at a time.

Whenever you deal with money, credit cards, and especially new funding models like this that don't neatly fit into existing categories, all sorts of regulations get involved. Also given the post-9/11 world, America has all sorts of crazy new laws now designed to deal with money laundering and money entering/leaving the country, which makes things super fun for those of us with foreign citizenship.

So - yeah, it's pretty stupid, but unless someone's heard differently, I'm not entirely sure it's Kickstarter that's behind that decision. For instance, Dwolla is also US-only for now, and for a long time was confined entirely to the state of Iowa while they worked things out with banking institutions.

[Klaim]

Well how does Indie Go Go does?

What I suspect is that they have to rely on amazon payment system but that limit them and they might have an exclusivity contract or something?

I started giving money to Kickstarter in the beginning of the last year, so I'm still surprised that they didnt fixed the problem yet.

[larsiusprime]

Found this on Kickstarter's page:
http://www.kickstarter.com/blog/amazon-payments-and-us-only

From the looks of it, it's a limitation of the payment systems and unique funding model they're using.

Kickstarter's Model:

1. If the project has met or exceeded its funding goal, all backers’ credit cards are instantly charged and funds go directly to the project creator.

2. If the project has not met its funding goal, all pledges are immediately canceled. And that’s it.

IndieGogo has found a way around that, probably because their model is slightly different (you keep all the money you've raised, even if you don't reach your goal, as I understand it).  

Apparently only Amazon payments could provide the funding model KickStarter wanted (if you've not funded 100%, you don't get anything and nobody is charged), and Amazon is currently US-only. So, according to Kickstarter, they'd like to be international, but right now the only payment system that lets them do their thing only works with people who have US bank accounts.

[Tumetsu]

IndieGogo has found a way around that, probably because their model is slightly different (you keep all the money you've raised, even if you don't reach your goal, as I understand it).  

What if I don’t reach my funding goal?
If your campaign is set up as Flexible Funding, you will be able to keep the funds you raise, even if you don’t meet your goal. If your campaign is set up as Fixed Funding, all contributions will be returned to your funders if you do not meet your goal. Flexible Funding campaigns that meet their goal are only charged 4% as our platform fee, whereas campaigns that do not meet their goal are charged 9%.

http://www.indiegogo.com/learn/faqs

Looks like they also do "fixed funding" like Kickstarter though.

Couldn't they charge supporters instantly, transfer money to Indiegogo's account, then wait until project closes, and pay either to the project owner, or back to the supporters?

[Nix]

Apparently only Amazon payments could provide the funding model KickStarter wanted (if you've not funded 100%, you don't get anything and nobody is charged), and Amazon is currently US-only. So, according to Kickstarter, they'd like to be international, but right now the only payment system that lets them do their thing only works with people who have US bank accounts.

Though given the current size of Kickstarter, I imagine they have the funds to roll their own payment system. Maybe they're working on it.

Anyway, the big difference is this: established "big players" (Like Doublefine) have proven that they know what to do with $1 million and will use it to release a finished product. An unknown indie who pops in and asks for more than a few thousand dollars will be laughed at because no one in their right mind would trust a random person, however enthusiastic, with any sizeable sum of money. It's not like you *need* it anyway. Indie games are cheap to make. We have all these wonderful funding models already that don't require asking the public to take a leap of faith. As much as I hate talking about Minecraft, take a look at that funding model: release a fun playable game and promise more features as people buy in to the alpha. But asking people to give you money after watching a cool video or looking at concept art? That's just silly (unless you have a proven track record, which goes back to the first thing I said).

[Manuel Magalhães]

You know what kills Indie game kickstartering? Kickstarting a game and it not being released 2.5 years later. PAUL.(Though he isn't the only one)

What's wrong with making a Kickstarter years before releasing the game? I bet Wasteland 2 will take about the same time to be made. (I could be wrong though)
He still gives updates about his game, which is a sign of "I'm still making this game, don't worry". (otherwise I would have agreed with you)
For large games there isn't any other option other than needing the money years before the release, specially with a small dev team. (which is the case of Studio Eres)

[team_q]

You know what kills Indie game kickstartering? Kickstarting a game and it not being released 2.5 years later. PAUL.(Though he isn't the only one)

What's wrong with making a Kickstarter years before releasing the game? I bet Wasteland 2 will take about the same time to be made. (I could be wrong though)
He still gives updates about his game, which is a sign of "I'm still making this game, don't worry". (otherwise I would have agreed with you)
For large games there isn't any other option other than needing the money years before the release, specially with a small dev team. (which is the case of Studio Eres)

Nothing, really, honestly I understand. But if you look at my Kickstarter history, the first day I found out about it, I kickstarted 4 games, 1 cancelled and the other 3 are yet to be released. All 3 felt like they would be released in the next half a year, it's been over 2. Every non game project I have funded I've seen return for. Those three kickstarters went dark for 2 years, resonance is back, I don't think I'll ever see the full version of Flywrench. I understand that you shouldn't actually expect a return, and newer kickstarters require an estimated return date. But still, I don't think I'm the only one who had an experience like this.


Also I like taking the piss out of Paul, because it's fun and Paul can take it. 

[EdgeOfProphecy]

Huh.  Weird article.

A couple thoughts on Kickstarter

1)  No, big name devs are not going to be siphoning tons of money away from indies.  That's not how money works.  I can guarantee you that many of the people who funded Doublefine's game had never funded anything on Kickstarter before.  Here was Doublefine, a legend, telling you "Hey you know who we are.  We'll make you a game that you've always wanted, all you gotta do is preorder it."

 

If anything, that is good for tiny, unknown indies.  Those first timers have discovered Kickstarter, and they'll be more likely to go back and fund more projects.

2)  Yeah Doublefine has a reputation, and little guys don't have a reputation.  It's very natural that people would be mistrustful of unknown developers, even if they were asking for a comparatively small amount of money.  Remember, a dollar is still a dollar, and just because you're asking people to give you 15k dollars doesn't mean that dollar is any less valuable to a backer than Doublefine's 250k (or whatever their initial target was).

3)  It's an open ecosystem, and the best will survive.  I don't see that changing.  In order to attract dollahs, you need to provide TMV (total merit value) to the backers that exceeds their "I'll back this" threshold.  Tim Schafer's name is, quite literally, worth money.  If your name isn't worth money, then you have to drum up that TMV from somewhere else.  Strong rewards, good demo, great concept, etc.

4)  People also tend to misuse Kickstarter a lot.  I think the dynamics are different for a big brand studio versus some unknowns, and what's possible is different.  As alluded to above, Tim Schafer can make a hilarious video, say "I'm gonna make an adventure game", and that's all he needs to attract enough money to fund a game start to finish.  But that's because he's Tim Schafer, with all of Doublefine behind him.  He doesn't need a playable demo, voice acting, a fancy title, or really much of anything to convince people that backing him is a good idea.  Indeed, if you watch the video, you'll realize it's very carefully made to sell Tim Schafer and Double Fine, not a specific product.  They knew their strength and catered to it.

It's different for people with no reputation to lean on.  In many cases, you will not be able to fund an entire game through Kickstarter, since you will need to make part of the game to convince people that it's something that you have the skills to make, and that it's worth investing in.  For many people, Kickstarter needs to be used as part of a grander funding strategy, not as a be all end all solution.  I think people are far more willing to fund a game that's well on its way to completion, and help push it over the edge, than a game concept in its earliest planning stages.

There's no paradigm shift here, or the threat of draining money from honest, hard working, tiny indies.  We've never seen the value of a name on Kickstarter games before, and it works differently from what people are used to.  It's the emergence of something new, not the death of the establishment.

[Klaim]

Found this on Kickstarter's page:
http://www.kickstarter.com/blog/amazon-payments-and-us-only

From the looks of it, it's a limitation of the payment systems and unique funding model they're using.

Kickstarter's Model:

1. If the project has met or exceeded its funding goal, all backers’ credit cards are instantly charged and funds go directly to the project creator.

2. If the project has not met its funding goal, all pledges are immediately canceled. And that’s it.

IndieGogo has found a way around that, probably because their model is slightly different (you keep all the money you've raised, even if you don't reach your goal, as I understand it).  

Apparently only Amazon payments could provide the funding model KickStarter wanted (if you've not funded 100%, you don't get anything and nobody is charged), and Amazon is currently US-only. So, according to Kickstarter, they'd like to be international, but right now the only payment system that lets them do their thing only works with people who have US bank accounts.

Thanks for the search, I read the faq before but it wasnt as clear as now. So basically either Amazon find a way to allow international transfert, or Kickstarter find other payment systems wishing to fill the gap, or they build their own.

Any way, it obviously takes a lot of time...
I guess they werent prepared for their success (good thing I guess).

[Nix]

Or maybe there just isn't a big enough international market to justify the investment.

[EdgeOfProphecy]

Or maybe there just isn't a big enough international market to justify the investment.

That's silly.  Of course there is, but they have to figure out a way to reasonably tap it.  Pretty sure they're working on it.