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[Lady_Fuzzy]

Hi guys. So in past few weeks I've been researching an alternative business models on Steam (but not only).


===The Subject===
As we all know - the golden age of steam is long gone. But after recent Summer Sale fiasco... things went even worse. So now, we got waves of shitty games, game profile features perma-limited (trading cards, achievements and such), visibility rounds nerfed and now - storefront-wide sale stopped being that time of the year when we earn a fair extra.

So I've started looking for another way and came upon Doki Doki Literature Club. The game is freeware but has a $9.99 'Thank you' DLC. That DLC doesn't add a lot to the game - its most showcased and used as a way for the players who enjoyed the game to actually support the developer for giving them the game for free. And to my utmost surprise - there was a lot of people who actually bought that optional DLC and wanted to express their support and gratitude with their wallets.

Now, as Doki Doki is a typical viral example - I started looking for other games who followed Doki Doki's lead and it appears it does work - but of course not always, not with just any games and it doesn't bank as high as Doki Doki's viral case.


===PROs and CONs===
+ HUGE natural reach thx to non-existent entry curve (we are talking millions of players)
+ no refunds (you can't refund DLCs and the base game is free)
+ Higher % of positive reviews (its kind a harder for people to bash something they had been given for FREE)
+ Massive Good PR
+ Bigger media/streamers/letsplayers coverage
+ No WL grinding before the release
+ Could be used as groundwork for your next - paid project.

- No chance for Trading Cards
- No chance for landing on frontpage
- 'Leap of Faith' in terms of monetary viability (as the players are not charged for playing and the game must be truly captivating to push them into willingly purchasing a 100% optional DLC, which is borderline donation at this point)
- Due to no guarantied revenue - the game design and genre is limited (no online/MMO)
- Impossible to spread the awareness of your game by selling Steam Keys on other storefronts as the game is... umm, well - freeware? o.o


=== My take ===
In perfect world - this would be THE model. As you know - we are artists. And the dream of any artist is for his/her creation to reach as many players as possible. And when some money actually rolls in - you know you earned it. Less steam-natural toxicity, butthurtness and hairs going bald or white due to refunds or some freaks review bombing your game.

PS: Keep in mind this model makes any sense only on Steam - where it will have a massive organic reach. Doing the same on some 'flashportal' defeats the purpose as there - you are just another one, out of many. Where on steam - you'll be one of few.


=== The Question ===
Seriously - this route is 'as indie as you can get'. But we all need to eat, pay bills and perhaps not be homeless lol. Any of you went this route? Could you share your take on this? maybe some data? Anyone-anything?

[fluffrabbit]

the dream of any artist is for his/her creation to reach as many players as possible

My dream is to find a small and dedicated following. I feel that the more people go along with me, the further off the mark I am. Better to be niche and shun the mainstream and all the shitty Internet and gamer culture that goes along with it. But that's just me.

My take on the idea overall is that it's a yet another variant on the Humble Bundle/pay-what-you-want/F2P/freemium model that is thrown like a fire blanket when people start to panic. Actual revenues aside, it would do a lot more for my ego if a number of people paid cash up front, not because they thought I was a nice guy, but because they thought the game looked cool. I can go really low on the price too, but the point is that people willingly purchase it.

[Lady_Fuzzy]

the dream of any artist is for his/her creation to reach as many players as possible

My dream is to find a small and dedicated following. I feel that the more people go along with me, the further off the mark I am. Better to be niche and shun the mainstream and all the shitty Internet and gamer culture that goes along with it. But that's just me.

My take on the idea overall is that it's a yet another variant on the Humble Bundle/pay-what-you-want/F2P/freemium model that is thrown like a fire blanket when people start to panic. Actual revenues aside, it would do a lot more for my ego if a number of people paid cash up front, not because they thought I was a nice guy, but because they thought the game looked cool. I can go really low on the price too, but the point is that people willingly purchase it.

I was thinking about this too. But there are couple of problems - niche games = tiny income and little to no help from the storefront (they won't help you promote something that maybe only 0,1% of their usebase would digest). So you are either forced to set your game's price high or keep adding new stuff but putting them behind a paywall (DLC/IAPs).

One would think lowering the price would fix that but actually... no. At least on steam - the lower the price, the less people will give it a go because of the 'asset flip' culture that kept spamming $1 shovelware thinking of easy money. So now Players got smarter and will stay mostly away from anything under $5.

But if you price your game higher ($20+) the expectations rise with the price and we are back to regular problems.

EDIT:
When 'Pay what you want' is no novelty in the world - it is on Steam. Or should I say - the mindset, the idea behind it. Users of steam live in a cozy bubble and majority of them ignore any other storefronts - HB included. Plus - public definition of "Indie Game Dev" shifted over the years from "passion-powered artists" to 'scummy little tricksters'. Nowadays, as a Indie Dev on steam - you are being taken by default as shady person. No one gives you benefit of doubt . Actually - quite the opposite happens.

So by posting a free game without saying even a word about money - you become a novelty.
Doki Doki storepage - Overwhelmingly Positive (115,200)
https://store.steampowered.com/app/698780/Doki_Doki_Literature_Club/

Doki Doki 'Thank you' DLC - Overwhelmingly Positive (1,388)
https://store.steampowered.com/app/717250/Doki_Doki_Literature_Club_Fan_Pack/

Of course one have to keep in mind - this is an extreme, viral case. But if you go to steam and filter games by free but without IAPS - you might notice that others aren't doing so bad too.

[fluffrabbit]

So you are either forced to set your game's price high or keep adding new stuff but putting them behind a paywall (DLC/IAPs).

Yeah, that's one of the things that bothers me about Steam. It used to be that it was a big deal when somebody patched a game, but now everybody takes updates for granted and they wouldn't seem to improve game rankings, so more aggressive tactics like DLC and promotional deals are used. I could turn into Market Man for a few months, but I have a feeling the promotional effort could get old.

At least on steam - the lower the price, the less people will give it a go because of the 'asset flip' culture that kept spamming $1 shovelware thinking of easy money. So now Players got smarter and will stay mostly away from anything under $5.

That's probably a smart assumption. Unity certainly opened up a world of wonders. I was thinking more like $5-$10. $1 sounds fair for the mobile app market, but I tried that 5 years ago with Android and boy did it not do well.

But if you price your game higher ($20+) the expectations rise with the price and we are back to regular problems.

I believe the Serious Sam games, the Crysis of their day, did well because they were in bargain bins at Wal-Mart. $20 is about the upper limit for that. When you step back and acknowledge the genre and scope of most games on TIGSource, it's a lot of puzzle platformers and retro throwbacks, so a better upper limit might be $15, so long as the indie market doesn't undermine itself by undercutting the price down to nothing. Unless a game gets a lot of press, it's hard to imagine people paying much more than that.

public definition of "Indie Game Dev" shifted over the years from "passion-powered artists" to 'scummy little tricksters'. Nowadays, as a Indie Dev on steam - you are being taken by default as shady person. No one gives you benefit of doubt . Actually - quite the opposite happens.

That must explain why people hate me! I'll take that explanation over contemplating that I might actually be a scummy little trickster. Too bad the attitude on Steam is becoming that surrounding Google Play. Where's a scummy little trickster to go?

Of course one have to keep in mind - this is an extreme, viral case. But if you go to steam and filter games by free but without IAPS - you might notice that others aren't doing so bad too.

Another thing is that IAPs are tricky to implement. The various storefronts of course provide their own payment gateways, but that can lead to vendor lock-in, and the third-party solutions want to take a cut of sales. The desktop and Linux TV box market (Steam, etc.) are supposed to make it so you don't have to do that because you can actually sell things. I would not mind the DLC model at all, though I would want my DLC to contain actual content. Most F2P games are like that; the free version is essentially shareware, allowing players to upgrade. I'm trying to avoid desperate tactics.

Also, who's to say if a game becomes popular? My current project has been on TIG for 2 months and there has been very little visual progress and no comments. I highly doubt anyone will ever give a rat's ass about Cave Confectioner. I like the idea of it and the engine I'm developing, but it's not my lifelong passion project or anything like that. It's for the smug D&D player and chess strategist who wants to feel smart. I don't understand those people, but intuition tells me there is a market there somewhere. But I don't understand gamers of any kind, really. Casual, hardcore, or otherwise.

[Lady_Fuzzy]

Yeah, that's one of the things that bothers me about Steam. It used to be that it was a big deal when somebody patched a game, but now everybody takes updates for granted and they wouldn't seem to improve game rankings, so more aggressive tactics like DLC and promotional deals are used. I could turn into Market Man for a few months, but I have a feeling the promotional effort could get old.

I have been involved in production of a game that had over 15 post-release content updates. The income jumped by perhaps 5%... and for day. So yeah. Steamers take it for granted now

That's probably a smart assumption. Unity certainly opened up a world of wonders. I was thinking more like $5-$10. $1 sounds fair for the mobile app market, but I tried that 5 years ago with Android and boy did it not do well.

Actually go with either $5 or $10. Anything above $5 appeal the same as $10. Same sales, same traffic. So if you are getting the very same - you might as well as get a bit more money from it. I tested it on 7 games.

I believe the Serious Sam games, the Crysis of their day, did well because they were in bargain bins at Wal-Mart. $20 is about the upper limit for that. When you step back and acknowledge the genre and scope of most games on TIGSource, it's a lot of puzzle platformers and retro throwbacks, so a better upper limit might be $15, so long as the indie market doesn't undermine itself by undercutting the price down to nothing. Unless a game gets a lot of press, it's hard to imagine people paying much more than that.

Sadly, the race to the bottom already started. The thing - 'Steam Sales'. Steam users became so obbsesed with the Steam Sales that they rarely buy games beyond this time frame. Because they are used to that any game will be discounted at least twice a year. So why should I pay the full price when I might have to pay just half of it in only couple of months? This leaves you with only TWO choices:
a) Set you price in your mind. Now multiply it twice. That multiplied price will now be your regular price and the 'half of it' version - will be your true price. Its kind a like in markets where you have something for $10 and then they just write $20$10 - knowing that people will only buy it upon discount.
b) Follow Factorio's developer and never dicount. But you have to state it loud and clear. It actually makes some sense. Because now the customers know that there is no point in waiting for "Steam Sale" because you game will cost the very same - always. Which does have an extra perk: how often did you buy something for full price just for it to be discounted the next day and then you felt like a fool? The sales will obviously be smaller... but constant. I think a constant, predictable flow of money is better than 2 huge revenue spikes twice a year. Specially if you doing this actually full time.

That must explain why people hate me! I'll take that explanation over contemplating that I might actually be a scummy little trickster. Too bad the attitude on Steam is becoming that surrounding Google Play. Where's a scummy little trickster to go?

Valve brought it up upon themselves... and us. Actually, Steam IS a desktop version of Goggle Play today. Just with more pain in the ass to deal with and higher entry fee (google play one-time $25 fee vs Steam's $100 per game).

Check another game for me.
"Life is Strange".
First chapter is a freeware. Anything beyond - behind a paywall. I am 99% sure they've made the whole game, sliced it into different bits and called them 'chapters' just to avoid being accused of cutting off content. If they would cut the content off and hide it behind DLC - an uproar guarantied. But because they've showcased those bits not as DLCs but as separate games... it did slide. And oh boy - how well it did.

[fluffrabbit]

I have been involved in production of a game that had over 15 post-release content updates. The income jumped by perhaps 5%... and for day. So yeah. Steamers take it for granted now

Another no-no for the list: Don't waste time maintaining a game post-launch. I guess the days of minimum viable product followed by iterative updates are over.

Actually go with either $5 or $10. Anything above $5 appeal the same as $10. Same sales, same traffic. So if you are getting the very same - you might as well as get a bit more money from it. I tested it on 7 games.

$10 it is. I don't see those games on your Steam profile.

a) Set you price in your mind. Now multiply it twice. That multiplied price will now be your regular price and the 'half of it' version - will be your true price. Its kind a like in markets where you have something for $10 and then they just write $20$10 - knowing that people will only buy it upon discount.

If that's what everybody else is doing, I don't know if my marketing aptitude is up to doing anything else. Big sale today only -- $200 $100 $50 Yours for only $10!

b) Follow Factorio's developer and never dicount. But you have to state it loud and clear.

I don't know how to do that. Making unilateral statements sort of goes against marketing speak. Who's to say I won't discount? I could either be lying or have multiple personalities.

Factorio has been in development since the spring of 2012. So far over 1,500,000 people have bought the game.

The marketing situation here is somewhat complex. There was an Indiegogo campaign, which brought in dough while promoting the thing, but there must have been awareness of the game before that. He hired pixel artists, but at the very start before all of that he got together with another programmer. I just can't collaborate like that.

Specially if you doing this actually full time.

What is this "time"? The unemployable know nothing of time, only timeless despair.

Life is Strange

I saw a Let's Play. The critic absolutely trashed it. IMHO, the game reminds me of any other Traveller's Tales style abuse of 3D animation to serve what is essentially a visual novel. There is a higher degree of interactivity than most indie VNs because the devs put some serious time into it, but the allure of "seeing how it ends" is just not tempting for me. I don't get invested in characters enough to understand the drive to purchase.

All of this advice has been amazing. You seem to know exactly what you're talking about.

[Lady_Fuzzy]

$10 it is. I don't see those games on your Steam profile.

New fresh start. For various reasons - I don't want my person to be connected to my main business. Some are personal matters, some other - legal restrictions on me.

I saw a Let's Play. The critic absolutely trashed it. IMHO, the game reminds me of any other Traveller's Tales style abuse of 3D animation to serve what is essentially a visual novel. There is a higher degree of interactivity than most indie VNs because the devs put some serious time into it, but the allure of "seeing how it ends" is just not tempting for me. I don't get invested in characters enough to understand the drive to purchase.

In 'Life is Strange' case, the selling point was the 'boo-hoo'-teenage audience. You know, the same which posts monochrome pictures on instagram with 'UdontKnowMe' hashtags lol. To be honest - there is no such thing as unmarketable product - only more or less hard to find target audience and tricky user acquisition. But everything is doable and saleable as long as you have a crystal clear profile of your customers.

All of this advice has been amazing. You seem to know exactly what you're talking about.

Hah! My pleasure. Glad to be any help =) Been in the industry since 2006. And, well you know what they say - even a monkey will eventual learn how to play on piano if you give it enough time. Hence it puts a smile on my face when I heard about indieapocalypse, when I survived at least 4 of them already lol.

Hey, you got a steam account? Friend me. For marketing purpose - I am camping there 12h a day. Easier to catch me in real time.

[fluffrabbit]

You know, the same which posts monochrome pictures on instagram with 'UdontKnowMe' hashtags lol.

In the hick town I went to high school in, Instagram wasn't a thing yet and the main teen outlet was meth. But I'll take your word for it that such people exist.

I survived at least 4 of them already lol.

That's good to hear.

Hey, you got a steam account? Friend me. For marketing purpose - I am camping there 12h a day. Easier to catch me in real time.

Done.

[Lady_Fuzzy]

In the hick town I went to high school in, Instagram wasn't a thing yet and the main teen outlet was meth. But I'll take your word for it that such people exist.

Oh how I envy you hahah. Part of being able to sell anything to anyone comes with a price. I need to slurp in everything from the internet. To be aware what are the current trends, memes, jokes and shit. The knowledge of all of that is... heartbreaking.
Back in '90 we sure knew there are idiots in the world. Little did we knew of the scope... of how stupid they can be and how massive they are in numbers.

Let me tell you a story. There's a game on steam. Your typical 'keep going right and avoid obstacles' (I avoid saying flappy bird clone because the game is actually older than the Flappy). The game has a... surreal and very unappealing graphic coating. Other than that - it totally lacks any real Unique Selling Points and as you might foretell - it didn't sell very well at the beginning. But suddenly - it sales skyrocket. How?

It was around 5 years ago when the feminazi and political correctness started erupting. And one of the radical feminism portal bumped this game and took it as a 'interactive visualization of a mind of a raped women'. The game been sold cheap ($1-2) and now with the new not-game related USP - it exploded in sales and popularity. To the point that if you claimed to be a true feminist - you had been obligated to buy a copy.
Over 40 000 crazy tits went to steam and bought a copy to show the support for the message included in game. You know, the same message the big portal pretty much made-up/fabricated.

The developer had been more than... surprised, by this sudden exposure. But when the mother nature did not blessed him with a lot of talents - it did gave him a brain, so he just went with the flow and even adjusted his 'game' and its storepage to fit the feminazi agenda.

This example is not one-of-a-kind. I've seen it plenty. Many years ago, this knowledge, awareness kept in my brain made it very hard for me to sleep well at night. But over time I might have grow some sort of immunity heh.

World's a funny place eh?

That's good to hear.

Well there has been retails crysis, flash games extinction, greenlight going byebye, mobile games overflood, nintendo switch oversaturation - its all a repeating cycle. You just need to ride the wave when there is a wave, and jump on a growing one - when the previous is shrinking. Of course its easier said than done. But video games industry is something I live and breath now so either adjusting and evolving - or extinction. And I'm no dinosaur lol.

I will have a Steam account now.

Shot me a friend request when you're ready.

[fluffrabbit]

Back in '90 we sure knew there are idiots in the world. Little did we knew of the scope... of how stupid they can be and how massive they are in numbers.

I used to count myself among the proud ranks of memetards. But there has been a pretty massive shift from imageboards to mainstream social media platforms, thus changing the culture and making people too damn accountable for the words and images they happen to post. It's a different culture from the memes I know.

Over 40 000 crazy tits went to steam and bought a copy to show the support for the message included in game. You know, the same message the big portal pretty much made-up/fabricated.

I recall someone suggesting a similar scheme on /v/ a few years ago, but I had no idea this actually happened. I would take it as inspiration if I saw some way to force the meme/market. At this point I don't know what to think. Be Tumblr and make a game with some kind of political message, perhaps? Is it worth the $100 listing fee?

nintendo switch oversaturation

I guess they're like everyone else now.

I'm getting firewalled out of Steam Chat. I'm still figuring out this Steam thing.

[Lady_Fuzzy]

I used to count myself among the proud ranks of memetards. But there has been a pretty massive shift from imageboards to mainstream social media platforms, thus changing the culture and making people too damn accountable for the words and images they happen to post. It's a different culture from the memes I know.

That's where I started, my fellow anon <3 It all always starts THERE. Then it just oozes to twitter, reddit, facebook, 9gag and so many others.

I recall someone suggesting a similar scheme on /v/ a few years ago, but I had no idea this actually happened. I would take it as inspiration if I saw some way to force the meme/market. At this point I don't know what to think. Be Tumblr and make a game with some kind of political message, perhaps? Is it worth the $100 listing fee?

To be honest - worse case scenario is that you'll get that $100 back in a month or two. Really. That is also why we all cried when Valve opened the flood gate with their Steam Direct and why there is so much shovelware and asset flips on the market. Because even if shit hits the fan - you won't loss the initially invested funds. They will all come back. And if you spam the storefront with a game every 2 weeks - the chances of one of them going viral or becoming a meme - rises.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1007840/Wanking_Simulator/

Now think of any other industry where whatever you do or how much you screw up - the funds will always come back to you. I can't think of a single one. Well, maybe beside becoming a twitch-stripper 'gamer-gurl' or porn star.

No normal game dev would spew games as fast and often as those spammers. And now to ruin the market even further - they've let in hentai/porn games. And you know what happens with any platform upon going 'everything goes'? Porn overshines anything non-porn. It doesn't matter do you made Witcher 3, Fifa or new Fallout - young boys will always follow the tits. Witcher can wait Porn is like cancer to any platform.

Oh and btw - seen that Wanking Simulator?
8000+ people wishlisted it already. And counting.

I guess they're like everyone else now.

Not yet. But they will in a year or two. So now its like the last moment to get on board. Beyond that boiling point? No, no Steam 2.0 - Nintendo is far smarter and experienced than Valve. They will just shut the gate and leave only a thin entry for a selected few. So better become one of those few NOW when you still have the chance - with just any game, really.
Just to be on the right side of the gate - upon its closure 1-2 years from now. If you'll manage to jump on board here and now - you will retain your privilege to milk their cows.

I'm getting firewalled out of Steam Chat. I'm still figuring out this Steam thing.

Oh that's normal. That is because Steam is constantly rubbing all your mainframe entrails to gather data. Hilarious how the players cry over Epic Store's data gathering - and then they log in to Steam, facebook, twitter discord, WhatsApp and turn on their Windows 10 operating PC... which take measures of ever breath they take and how long they blink.

[fluffrabbit]

So it downloaded 350 MB worth of updates, failed to connect for firewall reasons (my mobile internet is severely lacking) and now it's downloading all 350 MB of updates ALL OVER AGAIN. It's all the more jarring coming from APT (the Debian/Ubuntu package manager) where downloads automatically pause and resume. I should get it resolved within 18 hours.

That's where I started, my fellow anon <3 It all always starts THERE. Then it just oozes to twitter, reddit, facebook, 9gag and so many others.

Now I know I'm a member of a community.

you won't loss the initially invested funds. They will all come back.

I take minor issue with those statements. I could rant on and on about what a clusterfuck the Android market has been for me, and how in 5 years I failed to recoup the $25 registration fee. Are you just talking about Steam, or more broadly about AAA/AA/III non-phone platforms, or about the whole games business in general?

Porn is like cancer to any platform.

Depends on how you define porn. A certain antisocial network *had* a healthy mix of everything. Everything was a part of the meme. At least before the site strayed from the path.

Wanking Simulator isn't porn, it's just a Reddit-tier chuckle. Things could get really dark if anons migrated to Steam, but I don't see that happening. Everything is Twitter now.

[Lady_Fuzzy]

I take minor issue with those statements. I could rant on and on about what a clusterfuck the Android market has been for me, and how in 5 years I failed to recoup the $25 registration fee. Are you just talking about Steam, or more broadly about AAA/AA/III non-phone platforms, or about the whole games business in general?

Precisely Steam storefront. As long as you pick your tags for the game wisely, drop in some flashy screnshots, a short but frantic trailer (less than 30sec) and a short game description... you should see that $100 in a month.

[fluffrabbit]