TIGSource Forums

Exercise 1: Minature Sokoban (http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=13717.msg404930#msg404930)

Exercise 2: Composition and Pacing (http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=13717.msg408141#msg408141)

Exercise 3: Structural Atmosphere (http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=13717.msg417702#msg417702)

Exercise 4: Teaching Mechanics (http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=13717.msg422855#msg422855)


Hey all :)

Whilst responding to http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=13618.0 it struck me that level design is something that isn't as discussed as often as it should be.  Whilst not all games involve it, for those that do it is at least as important as the programming and art, and is all too often treated as a chore to fit in at the end of development; level design ought to get more respect!

I think a big factor in this is that level design is hard.  Programming and art are hard too, but we know that, and we practice and practice so that we can get better.  We should practice level design too.. and so I want to start..

The Level Design Workshop!

Essentially the way I see this working is a bit like a somewhat directed creative writing group.  There will be short regular (weekly?) exercises to challenge us to grow/challenge our skills.  We will also encourage each other to share our in-progress level design work for our own projects.  Hopefully there will be a lot of juicy discussion and really hard hitting constructive criticism; if nothing else I'll try really hard to write some high quality feedback on everything I see.

In case it isn't already clear, I'm happy to put the organisation work in here.  I'm using 'we' because I want to be nice and inclusive, rather than because I'm lazy (I *am* lazy, but in a good way, honest).

So, who's in?   :coffee:

This will definitely be useful. When people think design they generally think of 'mechanics' design, which in my opinion is the easy part. Once you have a good idea, you need to create 4-5 hours of gameplay to show off that mechanic. An awesome idea that lasts for 10 minutes is not really worth much in my opinion. And I've seen games with potential, but lacking in content length because the author probably lacked the level design skills to see their game through.

I'd need some specifics about what you'd plan before saying I'd get involved, but I do think it's a good idea.

Were I doing something like this I'd probably do it in level editors or something.  Probably Knytt Stories levels for 2d, and possibly SketchUp + Unity for 3d stuff (I've been quite pleasantly surprised by how nice those two pieces of software work for simple stuff).

Those two tools would really keep the focus solely on creating interesting levels, instead of allowing people to get caught up in mechanics.  I mean, heck, just look at how creative and amazing some of the community Knytt Stories levels are!

And by using standardized stuff like that, everyone would be able to easily compare their work; it would certainly make criticism easier.

My plan is that the "regular exercises" will be focused on specific games, largely chosen for the speed at which you can get started/productive with them, but also things that should encourage learning.  The "share our in-progress level design work for our own projects" will obviously be much more freeform, anyone's free to share anything as long as it comes under the (rather broad heading) of level design.

Knytt Stories certainly does fit the bill, and will almost certainly feature at some point.  I do want to keep mixing things up though, this should be about level design in general not "level design for xyz".  I've got a good few ideas lined up to start us off, and we can see where we go from there.

Sketchup, I'm slightly less keen on because a) it needs to be tied to a game before it's relevant and b) frankly I find 3d less interesting than 2d nowadays and c) whilst it is *fairly* easy it's not as immediate as I'd like the tools we use to be.  As a great example of a really immediate 3d level editing check out http://sauerbraten.org/  (again, something that is likely to feature at some point).

Oh, and I don't intend this to be a "you must take part in every exercise or else" kind of a thing, more of a "do what you can when you can" one.

I am reaching the point where I'm a good enough programmer to get stuff working, and have started to worry more about the content I'm creating for my games. I'd be interested in taking part in this, in the interest of self-improvement, if you don't mind.

Ah, alright then; thanks for the clarification.

Collective self-improvement is what it's all about.  Great to have you onboard  ;D

Definitely interested.

It would be nice if there was a mixture of game-specific exercises and more abstract ones that could be used to inspire us in whatever games we're working on.

I understand that coming up with game-agnostic exercises wouldn't exactly be easy though.

I think it would almost be more productive to put together level editors specific to challenges you want to give, rather than work from existing games. My main problem with using existing games is that their editors will necessarily be tied to the game's atmosphere and aesthetic, which dilutes from the experience of pure level design.

I think it would also be useful to define what you see as "level design." Is it the arrangement of things in a game level from a purely mechanical point of view, or is the creation of art central to that process? I know that for me the two are inseparable, and I there are bound to be variables beyond even that to consider.


Regardless, I'm interested in this.

Oh, and should there be any interest in creating editors for this workshop, I can lend my Flash skills to help.

I don't have a lot of time to commit (I'm even having to sit out of the AGBIC contest, which I'm gutted about), so if these exercises are like 10 hours things every week where participation is MANDATORY then I won't be so keen on that. However, this sounds like it could become something really awesome, and if I'm able to dip in and out, submit stuff which I did on paper and scanned, or in a paint program or some really easy level editor, then I'm totally up for being involved.

If I ever get a chance, I might sift through some of my old notes and games I made when I was a teenager (seems like a lifetime ago) and post-mortem some of my own level design choices, so people can see what stuff I came up with which was good, and also stuff I did because I was young and stupid and which nobody else should ever do.

I'd definitely be interested.  I'd love exercises which have to deal with architecture and using space and those kinds of design techniques, as they are more abstract and not limited to specific game mechanics.

My hope is that game agnostic lessons can be taken from game specific excercises.  I'm certainly intending to frame them with that view in mind.


Yeah, this is certainly something I'm considering.  One of the best things about that approach is our level design interface could remain largely the same, and only the challenges change.  Whilst I do have a good base (flash with in-engine editing) for it it'll probably take a bit of time to get it slick enough for general use.  I don't want to delay making a start when there already lots of games around that are easy to make levels for.


I consider supporting a game's atmosphere and aesthetic to be one of the fundamental elements of "pure level design".  So, whilst I don't want all exercises to include that sort of challenge I certainly want some of them do.


Yes, you're right it would be good if I provided a definition that we'll work around here.  I'll try and come up with something vigorous.  For the moment though I'll just say that I see level design here as taken to be the arrangement of already created game elements.  I want to leave graphics, mechanic design, and programming at the door.  They are all of course deeply related to level design, and good level design involves some elements of each of those disciplines.  I feel they're discussed enough though, and we need to cut our scope off somewhere.



Fantastic  :handthumbsupL: :) :handthumbsupR:


All contribution is hugely welcome, I'm not going to be a slave driver about it.  I also hope that the exercises will be substantially shorter than that (otherwise I'll never get any work done on anything else!)


That sounds like a great idea, I wish I had more examples of my early work around, I'd love to spend some time picking through the stuff I made back then more critically.


Yes, some exercises with that focus would be great.  I'm often struck by how much level design is like conventional architecture an odd combination of aesthetics and functionality.  Raising this has made me wish I knew more about conventional architecture  :concerned:

Anyway, I'm so very glad that there appears to be interest in this thing.  :beer:  Now I just need to get it off the ground.  I think I'll try and put up a first exercise at some point on Thursday.

This sounds wicked cool. And another substitute worth considering: Spelunky and it's level editor. There's an incredibly diverse set of 2D action styles you can make happen with that little engine!

Very interested - I find myself picking an interesting mechanics/programming problem, solving it then not getting to the point of implementing levels/etc. with it. Something to flex/train the level design muscles would be very useful.

I very strongly suspect that I might be up for this : )

Sounds like this might be reasonably well attended then.  Superb.

I've got a fairly good idea for how I want to kick this off now, but it does mean that first couple exercises might be a bit puzzle game oriented.  The lessons taken from them ought to be fairly applicable to all types of games, and I do promise to mix things up afterwards, but I just wanted to check that I'm not going to put too many people off from the outset :)

This sounds like a great idea. I want to definitely check out what you post/announce to kick this off and will have to sort of play my availability by ear.

I know I have done next to no "level design" type games so it is something I'd like to learn more about since it can be pretty intimidating.

This is such a great idea  ;D

I'm in!

I really need to brush up my level design skills, I'm in.   :)

This is something I'm very interested in. Count me in!

I may be in.

Level design is the one thing keeping me from finishing a project of mine; I know enough theory but my hands are still shamefully clean. This, along with a pledge to enter more short-form compos, should get me headed in the right direction.

Auntie Pixelante has level design lessons on her site; maybe we could do some round-table disscusions (via IRC or a forum thread) where we talk about the underlying aspects of the levels of a couple games? Perhaps a 'homework' assignment where we all play a game and write any notes we have about it? Just throwin' it out there.

Oh, wow, what have I created?  :o

This is now either going to be completely awesome or highly embarrasing.  Doing some ground work for the first exercise at the moment, still planning to unleash it (for better or worse) tomorrow.


Yep, they're great :)


I'd be very up for doing that, whilst I'd usually lean towards IRC for such things, the difficulties involved in getting everyone together at the same time might be too much to be worthwhile.  Once we're underway a 'required reading' splinter thread (the exercises kind of already are the homework) would be fantastic.  If anyone has some awesome ideas for games to include (remembering of course that we're focusing entirely on the level design here) suggest away :)

I am totally in!

My mate and I have been wanting to make something over the summer and level design is definitely something I've been worried about.

I'm in! This is definitely needed, I struggle with level design a lot.

I'm in for this, very unhappy with my level design skills and very jealous of Jonathan's really awesome designs. ^_^ Need to improve!

I commend this initiative. Let me know if I can be of aid.

I hadn't read all of these before, good stuff

[They are here: http://www.auntiepixelante.com/?cat=6]

I'm in.  This sounds really useful.

Definitely interested. Sounds like fun. ;D

Sure, why not?  :gentleman:

Okay, let's begin..

Exercise 1: Minature Sokoban

Level design as an activity can be considered to be primarily about building bigger structures from smaller ideas.  From the base elements of the world (floor, wall, space, mechanics) you can build little sections, the little sections build up to screens, and the screens build up to levels.  For the first exercise I think we should concentrate on the 'little sections'.

What I mean by 'little sections' varies a lot game-to-game, or genre-to-genre.  In a platform game a section would be a single jump over a pit, or a short encounter with an enemy.  In a 'classic' scrolling-shooter it would be a solitary chain of enemies.  In a puzzle game it is an individual problem that must be solved along the way.

Concentrating on the atomic elements of level design opens us up to the full range of possibilities that the games mechanics allow.  By deconstucting the game we gain a solid base that we can work from.  It's also a great acid test to check that the games mechanics are interesting and/or fun.  In other words it's a pretty great place to start.

Sokoban?

This week, and assuming it goes well, the next will be based on Sokoban.  I've chosen this game because:

• It has very simple mechanics.
• You are probably familiar with it.
• I think there's a good chance you've not made levels for it before.

In case you aren't familiar with sokoban the basic concept is you need to move every boulder in each puzzle to a goal square.  Typicaly there's one and only one goal square per boulder.  The puzzles come from the difficulty of navigating the player into the right positions to move the boulders towards the goal.

(http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/elements.png)

There's plenty of other info online a search away if you need to know more.

The Task

Okay, so the actual task.  We should each try and create a set (aim for 10ish) of really tiny sokoban levels.  In each aim and make the puzzle contained as self-contained as possible, and try to cut out absolutely every bit that isn't strictly required.

To get across just how simple to start things this is my first 'puzzle' (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAABCBAAAAAAABDBAAAAAAABEBAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA) of my set.

Whilst each puzzle should be as simple as possible they should also be distinct.  Each puzzle should have a different solution to the others.  They'll probably get a bit more complicated as they go on, and that's fine, but try and get the most basic pieces nailed first.

What to make them in?

I've put together a little flash game/editor that you can use (but don't feel oblidged to, there's plenty of other sokoban implementations out there that allow custom levels).

http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf)

There is a tile palette at the bottom to select tiles, you can also use number keys.  Click in the main area to place tiles.  In the bottom right there are two buttons, the left hand toggles between editing and testing, the right hand puts a url containing the level into the clipboard, so you can paste it somewhere, like here (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBAAAAAAEBEAAAAAAAEBEAAAAAABBBBBAAAAAACAAAAAAAAAAAADAAAAABDBBBAAAAAAADADAAAAAAAAAAAAA).  Though I'd probably recommend posting them all at once, rather than one at a time or it might get a bit spammy in here.

Credit where it's due..

I got the idea of minature sokoban levels from David W. Skinner's excellent Microban sets (http://users.bentonrea.com/~sasquatch/sokoban/).  It's probably best if you don't check them out until you're done with the exercise though, I think there's a lot of value in going through the steps yourself.  For the same reason I'm not going to share my set just yet.

Anyway, I hope you all get on with it okay, and hopefully get something out of it too.  Do yell if there's anything unclear, my flash tool is confusing/rubbish or whatever else.  I'm really looking forward to seeing what you all come up with  :) :handthumbsupR:

It would be nice if the game looked to see whether you have added more blocks than goals or goals than blocks and adjusted the win condition accordingly.

Ah cool. I made a Sokoban variant (with like four levels) for the most recent Ludum Dare, it's been on my list of "old games I want to go back and make levels for but really who has the time to make levels when there are all these new games to work on". Possibly I need a shorter name for that list...

Gave it another go! The difficulty ramps up a lot more quickly in this one, but now there's only six levels.  :-[
I'll get around to making at least two more...maybe..
Level 1 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAABBAAAAAAABAABBAAAAABCDDEBAAAAABEBBAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
Level 2 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAABBBAAAAAABEAABAAAAABADABAAAAABADCBAAAAABEAABAAAAAABBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
Level 3 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAABBBAAAAAABAAABBAAAABABAAABAAABADDBABAAAABAAEABAAAABECBBAAAAAABBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
Level 4 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AABBBAAAAAABAAABAAAAABABAEBAAAABAEDAABAAAABADDCBAAAABADAEBAAAAABEBBAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
Level 5 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBAAAABAAABCBAAABADFFEBAAABAAAAABAAAABBAABAAAAAAABBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
Level 6 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=ABAAAAAAAABEBAAAAAAABCBBAAAAAABDAABBBAAABABDBAABAABAAEADABAAABAAAEABAAAABBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)

Bacon 1 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAABBBBAAAAABACBBAAAABBADBBAAAABBAAEBAAAABBAABBAAAABBADBBAAAABBAABBAAAABBAAEBAAAAABBBBBAAAAAABBBBAA)  :)

Bacon 2 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAABBBBBBAAAABEAABBAABBBBAABBBABBBBDABEBABAAACADABABADAAAAABABEBADBBBBABBBAABBBBAABBAAEBAAAABBBBBBAA)

Bacon 3 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BEBBBBBBEBBAAAABBBABBAAAAAAAABBABAAADAABBABADAABCBBABBADBBABBAADAAABABBAAAAAAAABBABBBAAAABBEBBBBBBEB)  ;)

Bacon 4 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AABBBBBBEBAABAAAAACBAABABBBBABAABABAAAABAABABABAABAABABABAABAABAADAAABAABABABBABAABAAAAAABAABBBBBBBB)

Bacon 5 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BAABBBBEBBBADBAAAAABBAAAABAACBBBBAABAAABBAAAAAABABBAAAAAABABBAABAAAAABBAABBAAAABBADAAABAABBAABBBBEBB)

Bacon 6 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BBBBBBBBBBEAAAAAAAAEBBDDDBBBBBBCAAAAAABABBABEBAABAABAABEBABBABAAAAAAABBBBBBDDDBBEAAAAAAAAEBBBBBBBBBB)  :P

Bacon 7 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BCBBBBBBBBBAAAAAAAABBADBBBBAABBAABAAAAABBAAAAABAABBAAAAABABBBAABBBBAABBAAAAAAAABBAAAABBAABBBBBBBBBEB)

Bacon 8 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BBBBBBBBBBBADAAAAAAEBABBBAAAABBADAAAABCBBAAABBAAAEBABBAABAABBADAAABAAEBABBAAAAABBADAAAAAAEBBBBBBBBBB)  :wtf:

Bacon 9 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BEBAABBBBBBAAAAABAAABACBAABABABAADAADAAABBAABBABBEAAAABBAAABAAADAADAABABAAAABAABEAAABBBAABBBBBBEAAAB)

Bacon 10 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAEAAAADAAAEAEAADADAAAEABAADAAAEAEABDADAAAEAAAADACAEAEAADADAAAEABAADAAAEAEABDADAAAEAAAADAAAEAEAADADA)  >:D


Nitro: You're a good puzzle designer. L's 7/8 have some particularly good juxtaposition to work around.

Skipping the easy levels (actually, I'm just lazy and don't feel like making 10 right now)

Seven (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBAAABAAAAABAAABABCBABAAABAAEAABAAABAADAABAAABABFBABAAABAAAAABAAABBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAA)
Eight (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBAABBAAABBEAFBBAAAAFBAAFBAAAAAADCAAAAABEEABEBAAABBFAEABAAABBBABBBAAAAAAAAAAA)
Nine (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBABBAEDEAABABAADCDAABABAAEDEABBABBBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
Ten (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBAABBAAABAAAAABABBBDDBBAAABAAEECBAAABABDDBBAAABAAEEAAABABBBBBAABBAAAAAAAAAA)

zero! (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBAAABAAAAABAAABABABABAAABAADAABAAABBBCBBBAAAAABEBAAAAAAABBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
one! (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBAABAAAAAABAABAADCDABAABAADDAABAABAAADAABAABEAAAAABAABEAEAAABAABEEAAAABAABBBBBBBB)
two! (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAABDBAAAAAAABCBAAAAAAABBBAAAAAAABBBAAAAAAABBBAAAAAAABBBAAAAAAABBBAAAAAAABBBAAAAAAABEBAAAAAAABABAAA)
three! (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BBBBBBBBBBBBBBAAAABBBBBBADBABBBBBBAFAABBBBBBCABABBBBBBAFAABBBBBBAEBABBBBBBAAAABBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB)
four! (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BBBBBBBBBBBEAAAAAAEBBABBDABBABBABEADEBABBAAADDAAABBAACADAAABBABEDDEBABBABBAABBABBEAADAAAEBBBBBBBBBBB)
five! (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAABBBBBBAAAABAEACBAAAABDDBBBAAABBADABAAAABEAAABAAAABAAAABAAAABAAAEBAAAABBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
six! (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBCABBBBBBAADAABBBBAAEAEABBBBAADBDAABBBBAEDEAABBBBAAAAABBBBBBAABBBBBBBBBBBBBB)
seven! (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBBBBBBAABBBBBAAAAAAABBBAAFFFAAABBEAFCFADABBAAFFFAAABBAAAAAAABBBBBBAABBBBBBBBBBBBBB)
eight! (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBAAABAAAEABAAABAABAABAAABADFDABAAABEABCABAAABBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
nine! (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBAABBBAAAAAAABBBADBBBAABBBBAEAFAABBBAAEAFACBBBADBBBBBBBBAABBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB)

I wanted to make something where knowledge of previous levels would cause you to be a little reckless subconsciously and make mistakes in the later levels.



I went through some people's levels and I've got some comments to give, but I forgot which comments go to which, so I'll just come back later when my brain isn't tired of sokoban.

@Captain 404: Woah, level 9 is really tough (I only played level 8 and 9 though) Took me like 10+ tries to get it.

NB: As a note on criticism generally, as we're all trying to learn and improve our craft criticism is very important.  Providing quality critique is at least as useful for learning as recieving it, so try and do some.  To be most effective it needs to be honest, verging on brutal, so I won't pull any punches, and nor should you.  Just try not to take it too personally ;)


These are really good.

Level 4 can be reduced (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBAAAAAABAAABAAAAABDBCBAAAABAABABAAAABAADABAAAABEEBBAAAAAABBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA) a little without losing anything intrinsic, as can 5, 6 and 8 if you want a further challenge.  None of them are seriously bloated though.

Levels 7 and 8 and are are great examples of how complex a puzzle can be within a tiny space.

Baconman:

Your set has a lot of room for reduction.  For instance the core puzzle of level 6 is great, but it can fit in a fraction of the space (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=ABBBBBAAAABEAAAEBAAAABDDDBAAAAABCAABAAAAAABBEBAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA).

I'm pretty sure if you went back through and stripped your levels right back (removing places where you repeat one solution multiple times) you'd also find that a lot of your levels are pretty much intrinsically the same.  The ones that aren't involve needless amounts of tracking about that don't actually add to the puzzle bit much.

I like that you're thinking about how the levels look, and using interesting patterns/symmetry.  Such things are most worthwhile though once you've already got the  basics down (which is why I wanted to focus on minature level design in the first place).


tut tut, the early levels are important!

8 is a bit weak, it takes very little time to realise that most of the boulders are irrelevant.  10 appears to be more an attempt to trick the player than provide an interesting puzzle (moves like this should not be attempted lightly, few people enjoy them).

7 and 9 are good though, and have much less room for reduction than it initially appears.

Captain_404:

Just because two! is possible doesn't make it right.

6 is fantastic, 8 and 9 too.  A lot of your other levels are a bit flabby, and would benefit from some time spent working out what the core elements of the levels are, and cutting around them to reach their essence.

You certainly did a pretty good job with the psychological aspects, I was completely convinced 9 was impossible for a little while.

Do you guys want to discuss your process for making the levels? I made elaborate puzzles and tried to distill them down to the interesting parts. My levels are pretty easy but I tried to make each one stand out. Here's my levels, all apologies for not scripting it -- I'm about to go for a walk and am pressed for time.

level 1 http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBEAAAAAABBBABBBBAABBBABBBBABBBBABBBBABBBBABBBBABBBBABAAADBBBBCAAAAABBBBBBBBBBBBB

level 2 http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBACBBEABBBBADBBFABBBBAABBAABBBBAAAAAABBBBAAAAAABBBBBBBBBBBBB

level 3 http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBEAACBBBBBBABABBBBBBBDBDBBBBBBBABABBBBBBBAAAEBBBBBBAAAABBBBBBBBAABBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB

level 4 http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBCBBBBBBBBBAAAAABBBBBDDAEBBBBBBAAAAABBBBBFDAAEBBBBBEBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB

level 5 http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBAABBBBBCFAAABBBBBADADABBBBBABABABBBBBEBEBABBBBBAAAAABBBBBBBBBBBB

level 6 http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBAABBBBBBBBAAAABBBBBBEDBAAABBBBBAAADABBBBAAABCBBBBBABABBBBBBBAAAEBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB

level 7 http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBAAACBBBBAADAAABBBBABABDBBBBBADEAEEBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB

level 8 http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBAABBBBBBBBAABBBBBBBCADFEAAABBBAABBAAABBBBAAADBBBBBBBBBEBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB

level 9 http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBAAAABBAAAADACABBABBBABBBBBAEABABAABBAAAAADAABBAAABABAEBBABBBABBABBEAAADAAABBBBBBBBBBB

EDIT: Level ten was stupid, my bad.


Any feedback is appreciated, feel free to say that they're pretty banal because I kinda want to make a couple more sophisticated puzzles.

Now I can finally check out your guy's stuff. I'll make sure to provide a decent critique for as many as I can.  :gentleman:

You've made yourself an extremely elegant set of levels there.  There's a bit of unecessary usage of physical space in the first few levels (for sake of example, level 3 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBEAACBBBBBBDBDBBBBBBBAAAEBBBBBBBAAABBBBBBBBAABBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB)) but the 'idea space' for every puzzle is very clear and distinct.  They are far from banal.  Level 9 in particular is a beaut'.

This is exactly what the excercise is about, distilling the core game-y ness of a level to its simplist form.  Once you understand the building blocks it's much easier to make compelling larger forms out of them.  In case anyone's wondering I'm currently planning the next exercise to be about that (putting the building blocks together).

Cool idea. I just made four for now (I actually made a fifth, but it was dumb so I scratched it).

1-http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBAAAABBEAABAAABCADAABAAABADAFEBAAABAAFBBAAAABBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBAAAABBEAABAAABCADAABAAABADAFEBAAABAAFBBAAAABBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
2-http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAABAAAAAAAABEBBBBBAAABAACDAABAABAADAAEBAAABBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAABAAAAAAAABEBBBBBAAABAACDAABAABAADAAEBAAABBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)

3-http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BCABBAAAABBADABAAAABBEAAABAAABBABBBBDEABBABADAEBBABAAAAAABAABAABBBBAAABAABAAAAAABBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BCABBAAAABBADABAAAABBEAAABAAABBABBBBDEABBABADAEBBABAAAAAABAABAABBBBAAABAABAAAAAABBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
4-http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAABBBAAAAABBAAABAAABCDAAABAAABEADAABAAAABBEAABAAAAAABBBAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAAAAAA (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAABBBAAAAABBAAABAAABCDAAABAAABEADAABAAAABBEAABAAAAAABBBAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)

Was that directed at me? If so, I probably should have expanded my post. What I meant was that it was really tricky and a hard to figure out puzzle, which for such a small playing area, was done really well. :)

I'll try to make some levels tonight, when I get home from work ;D

EDIT: whoops, was unaware NB stood for anything. I've been referred to as that (initials of my name). My bad :)

When is this first task due? I know there is no hard deadline but if you had a time frame in mind it would help with all the crap I'm juggling. I've been avoiding looking at the submitted levels until I maybe have a chance to make some.

The 2nd and 3rd could really do with some serious editorial snipping, both could be way smaller and cleaner without losing any gameplace.  I realize I keep banging on about this, and I understand that it might feel a bit irrelevant, but I really feel that being able to cut a level back to its bare essentials is a really useful skill.

The 1st, and 4th are pretty good, the puzzles work, and they're fairly slim too.

It does appear you're generally putting a bit too much emphasis on the visual appearance of the levels rather than the underlying form though.  I don't want to discourage this *too* strongly, because level aesthetics *are* very important in keeping larger scale level design fresh.  It is important to know when you are compromising the levels functionality for purely aesthetic reasons (I dislike the immovable boulder in the 1st level).


No no, wasn't intended to be directed at anyone in particular.  It was just a general comment that I realized I'd not made previously.  Mostly I just wanted to explain why I was about to starting beating on peoples designs.


Excellent!


I think I'm going to aim to do these weekly, it seems the right sort of balance between being regular enough to stay interesting, yet with enough of a gap that I won't end up burning out really quickly.  So, exercise 2 will hopefully begin next Thursday.

Now that there's a good handful of sets out I'll add mine to the fray.  I do stand by my earlier comment though, the exercise will be most productive if you go into it blind.  Check everyone else's out *after* you've finished your own.

I (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAABCBAAAAAAABDBAAAAAAABEBAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
II (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAABEBAAAAAAABCBAAAAAABADBAAAAAABAABAAAAAABAABAAAAAAABBAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
III (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAABCBAAAAAABADBAAAAAABAAEBAAAAAABBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
IV (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAABEBAAAAAAABEBAAAAAAABABAAAAAAABDBAAAAAAABAABAAAAAABDABAAAAAABCABAAAAAAABBAAAAA)
V (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBAAAAAAABCEBBAAAABADDAABAAABAAEAABAAAABBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
VI (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAABCBAAAAAABEFBBAAAAABAAABAAAAABAAABAAAAAABDABAAAAAABAABAAAAAAABBAAA)
VII (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBAAAAABAAABBBBBABCDDAEEEBABAADABBBAABBAAABAAAAABBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
VIII (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBAAAAAABCABAAAAAABEDBAAAAAABAABAAAAAABEDBAAAAAABAAABAAAAABAAABAAAAAABBBBAAA)
IX (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAABBBAAAAAABAABAAAAAABEDBAAAAAABCABAAAAAABEDBAAAAAABAABAAAAAABEDBAAAAAABAAABAAAAABAAABAAAAAABBBBAAA)
X (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBAAAABAEDEABAAABADADABAAABAEDEABAAABBACABBAAAAABAABAAAAAABBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)

Please rip them to shreds!

I'm about to head off for a long weekend, and will be offline till Tuesday evening.  So don't be discouraged by my lack of responses for the next few days.  I eagerly anticipate working through what you've all come up with in the meantime.

I played through a couple people's last levels. (Don't exactly remember everyone's but..)

I have to say, I really liked TheDustin's level 9.
I can't really pin point it, but it felt nice in both aesthetics and puzzle. Spoiler: I could argue that some of the aesthetics were part of the puzzle. The boulder all the way on the right side is just there to throw you off really, but the level also looks more 'complete' with it there.

Bacon, (first off, thanks for the compliment :D) I felt like your level 10 was kind of repetitive. After moving like the 7th block I just lost interest in it. The absence of outer walls also seemed to ruin the puzzle a bit since I could just go off screen when I needed to. (Although, that may just be a bug with the program and not a fault of your own.) Now this is just my opinion (and i'm a newb at this, so take what I say with a grain of salt), but I think it'd help if you minimized the amount of blocks to what's only absolutely necessary for the 'puzzle'.

Edit: I had to look up what NB meant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nota_bene) because it totally threw me off.  :lol:

Ahh. I guess I ignored the focus on minimalism; my bad. What I was trying to do with my levels was provide a variety of experiences and goals, rather than just one. One level, for instance, was simply about navigating a single boulder though a simple maze. I also designed my levels with unobvious ways for people to screw themselves up, and wrong choices that they were totally free to make/attempt. Well, maybe not levels 1/2, but that's the "get the feel of it levels," they're SUPPOSED to be easy, but still somewhat engaging.

The last level was intended to purely be an unexpected twist, so that people playing them in sequence wouldn't ever expect that. And admittedly, I didn't anticipate screenwrapping, or I would've been much more vicious in abusing that, too.  :lol:

Here's my ten:
Level 1 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBAAAAAABAAABAAAABBCBABAAABEADAABAAAABBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
Level 2 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAABEBBAAAAAABAAABBAAAABAAADABAAAABDAAEBAAAABACBBAAAAAABBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
Level 3 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBAAAAABEAEABAAAABAADABAAAAABDAABAAAAABCBBAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
Level 4 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAABBBAAAAAABEAABBAAAABAAADABAAABABBAACBAABABBAAABAABAAADABAAABEAABBAAAAABBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
Level 5 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAABBBAAAAAABEAABAAAAABAEAABAAAABAAEDABAAAABADDABAAAAABAACBAAAAAABBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
Level 6 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBAAAABEADAABAABEAADDCBAAABEAABABAAAABBAAABAAAAAABBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
Level 7 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBAABAAAAAAABABADABAAABAABBAEFABAAAABAFEABBAABAAABADABABAAAAAACBAABBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAA)
Level 8 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBAAAABAACAABAAABABABABAAABAAAAABAAAABADABAAAAABADABAAAAAABEBAAAAAAABEBAAAAAAAABAAAA)
Level 9 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAABBAAAAAABBAABAAAABAAADBAAAABAAAFEBAAAABBBEDABAAAAAABACBAAAAAAABBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
Level 10 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAABBAAAAAAABAABBBAAABCADAAABABAAAABABBABADAAAEABAABABBFAABABAAAEAABAABAABABBAAAABBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)

I suspect they may be a bit too simple, but I've never been particularly good at sokoban.  I'm not sure my brain is very good at this kind of logical thinking.

Not tried anyone else's levels yet, but will comment when I have.

Crits, yo! Don't take anything personally, I don't mean to offend.


Level 1, while (perhaps?) necessary, is boring and manipulative. There are better ways to present the idea that it is possible to move and push blocks. The block out to the side is a little confusing too, I think. You've given it visual significance by isolating it from the playfield, but it is in fact irrelevant.

7 and 8 are both really clever! I'd encourage you to go ahead and round out the ten, as the game only really gets interesting in your last two levels.


Bacon 3 could use a bit of polishing, I felt that there was some unnecessary space there. (although hooray for tetris!)

Bacon 4: couldn't the two spaces beneath the horizontal wall of two blocks in the middle be blocked off with no ill effect? Why is that space there?

Bacon 5 plays like two puzzles that just happen to share the same map. The balls never get in each other's way from a gameplay perspective, and their symmetry doesn't seem to serve much aesthetic purpose either.

Bacon 6 is good.

Are you aware that in Bacon 7 you can just go straight right and then straight down?

Bacon 10! Checkers! Yay!

Overall, it seem that in your level design you equate lengthiness with difficulty. The path to the goal was always pretty straightforward. Try thinking about how moving one block will interfere with moving another, how the solution to one puzzle in a level will interfere with the solution to another puzzle in the same level. The checkers board is the closest to achieving this.



Make more levels, you bum! :)

Most of Eight felt really unnecessary to me. Most of the blocks in the level can't even be moved, not to mention all that empty space which the play will never tread (not talking about the outside here).

Nine and ten are good.

Remember that the early levels can be used to establish habits of play, discouraging certain solutions and encouraging certain kinds of recklessness. If you set up your early levels right, it can make the later levels that much harder.


Level 1 can be cut down a tiny bit.

The top part of Level 3 felt pretty useless.

Level 6 had me fooled at first, good job!

Overall, these level are great. There are a few spots you could touch up here and there, but not many. Level 9 is brilliant!


Not sure how I feel about that block you can't move in 1. It suggests symmetry where the level solution is actually asymmetrical. If the solution were also symmetrical I could justify it, but as is the whole upper part is just wasted space.

Overall, these puzzles are a nice start, but are incomplete. The puzzles you have all seem very similar to each other somehow. Perhaps when you develop the ideas you've started here into a full ten levels I'll be able to better speak to that.


Grudge match! (though thanks for your crits, they're spot on)

I is boring. Nobody wants to press a button to win. Because the player starts right next to the block and has nowhere to move but towards the block, it makes it appear as though pressing the right arrow causes the person and block to move in tandem with each other, as though they were a single entity. (a lesson which is reinforced over the first move of your second level). I actually think your second level is a better first level, as it teaches the player all the directions they can move, it establishes the block, player, and goal as separate entities, and it is much harder to win by randomly mashing buttons.

You had me convinced that VIII was impossible, so I skipped it. Then I openly wept.

Your last three levels are great (though I might argue that IX is the exact same as VIII, but lengthier), but the earlier levels didn't engage me as much. I, II, and III could all be condensed into a single level with no ill effect, and level IV-VII all revolve around the same basic principle (the order in which you do things). Individually, the levels are well made, I don't think I found anything that needs to be removed. As a whole, however, your ten levels present about four ideas.

--

Seems someone finished another set while I was typing. FYI, I'm not trying to ignore your set, NiallM. I'll try to come back and give more feedback once a few more sets pile up.

My Sokoban Levels:

OK So I took a couple hours here to design some levels. I included my brief design notes but feel free to not read those ahead of time.

I have never played much Sokoban and feel that if I had played more (and I can't wait to play everyone else's levels) I would have more ideas. That is one thing that really stood out to me about this process is that the more one is familiar with the mechanics and possibilities of the game the better chance you'll have on crafting a level intelligently.

Oh yeah.. DAMN I WISH THE GRID WAS 11x11 not 10x10... :o drove my OCD mad not being able to center anything. Hehe.

Level One (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBAAAAABCDEBAAAAABBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
Level Two (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBAAAAABAAABAAAAABABABAAAAABADCBAAAAABABBBAAAAABEBAAAAAAABBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
Level Three (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBAAAABAAAABAAAABABABBAAAABAADCBAAAABABABBAAAABAAAEBAAAABBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAA)
Level Four (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BBBBBBBBBBBAAAAAAAEBBABABABABBBAADADAABBBABABABABBBAADCDAABBBABABABABBBAAAAAAAEBBEBBBBBEBBBBBBBBBBBB)
Level Five (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BBBBBBBBBABAAABAAABABAADACAABABBBABABABAAABABEBABAAABDBEBABAAABABEBABAAABABDBABAAABAAAAABAAABBBBBBBA)
Level Six (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=ABBBBBBBBBBBAAAAAAABBEADAAADABBEAAABAAABBEDBBBBBABBEAAABAAABBEADAAADABBBAAAAAACBABBBBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAA)
Level Seven (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=ABBBBBBBBBABEAAAAAABABEADADDABABEAAAAAABABBBBFBBBBABAAAAAAABABAAAAAAABABBFBBBBBBABAAAAAACBABBBBBBBBB)
Level Eight (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BBBBBBBBBBBAAAAAAAABBAAAAAAAABBADBEEBDABBAABEEBAABBADBEEBDABBAABEEBAABBADDAADDABBCAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBBB)
Level Nine (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BBBBBBBBBBBAAAAAAACBBAAADAAAABBEADEDAEABBADEAEDAABBEDAEADEABBADEAEDAABBEADDDAEABBAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBBB)
Level Ten (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BBBBBBBBBBBAAAAAAAABBAADAAEEEBBADDABEEEBBADAABBEEBBAAAAABBABBABAADDAABBABBDDAAABBCAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBBB)

• Level One Design Notes: The barest concept
• Level Two Design Notes: Still a safe level introducing the direction change
• Level Three Design Notes: First level you can make a wrong move on and introducing the shuffle.
• Level Four Design Notes: An experiment with grid based shuffling.
• Level Five Design Notes: More advanced shuffle using three stones and many ways to go wrong.
• Level Six Design Notes: Figuring out another mechanic here.. this one could be refined a lot more.
• Level Seven Design Notes: Another test of stone juggling between rooms and having the player move stones away from nearby goals.
• Level Eight Design Notes: More experiments with loading / shuffling.
• Level Nine Design Notes: Wanted a visual tear drop and checker pattern to see how it played.
• Level Ten Design Notes: Iterated on this one for a bit--still not very happy with it.

lv1 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBABBBAADAEBBBADAEAAAABBEAAAADAABBAAAAAAAEBBBDAAACAABABEADAAABBABBBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAA)

lv2 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BBBBAAAAAABAABBBBBBABAAAAAAABABBABBBAABBBBEBBBAACBBEBBBBDAABBABBBBAABBBAAAAAAABABAABBBAABABBBBABBBBA)

lv3 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADBAAAAAAABAADCEAAEADAABAAAAAAADDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)

lv4 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBABBBAADAEBBBADAEAAAABBEAAAADAABBAAAAAAAEBBBDAAACAABABEADAAABBABBBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAA)

I don't like how these came out. making more later

Level #1 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAABBBAAAAAAABEBAAAAAAABCBAAAAAAABDBAAAAABBBABAAAAABAAABBBBAABAAAAAABAABAABAAABAABBBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAA)
Level #2 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBAAAAAABAABAAAAABBCABAAAABBADABAAAABAADABAAAABABEABAAAABAAEABAAAABBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
Level #3 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBAAAAABAAABAAAAABCBABAAABBBDAABAAABAADAABAAABABEBBBAAABAAEBAAAAABBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
Level #4 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAABBBBAAAAAABAABBBAAAABAAAABAAAABCBEABAABBBDBAABAABAADAABBAABABEBDBAAABAAEAABAAABBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAA)
Level #5 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBAAAAABAEAABAAAABEFDABAAAABCDAABAAAABBAABBAAAAABBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
Level #6 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AABBBBBAAAAABAAABBAAAABABAABAAAABAAAABAAAABADBEBAAAABBEBDBBAAAABCAAABAAAABAAAABAAAABBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAA)
Level #7 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAABAAAAAAAABBBAAAAAABBEBBAAAABAAFAABAABBAAFAABBAAABAFABAAAAABADABAAAAABACABAAAAABBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
Level #8 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBAAAABAABEBBBBBBAAAAAAEBBAABBABAABBAABBABDBBBAAAADBCBABBBBAADEBAAAABBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAA)
Level #9 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AABBBBBBBAAABAAAAABAAABAEDEABAAABADCDABAAABAEDEABAAABAAAAABAAABAABAABAAABBEBDBBAAAABAAABAAAAABBBBBAA)
Level #10 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBAAAAABEAAEBAAABADDDAEBAABCDEADEBAABADDDAEBAAABEAAEBAAAAABBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)

None of them are particularly interesting IMO. Will play through some other people's levels later.

Focusing on people who've not had so many comments.

First bunch are boring, but do demonstrate your idea of starting with the absolute most basic situations possible. Intellectually I can see there might be an advantage to explicitly finding and storing building blocks like that for future use but emotionally I just can't bring myself to create levels with trivial solutions.
VI is boring and doesn't seem to demonstrate anything.
VII is decent.
VIII is excellent; so simple and yet had me briefly questioning if it was possible.
IX is trivial after VIII.
X also does a very good job of subverting expectations of what the right move is.

Levels 1-3 gave me a sense of deja vu (having played too many levels of sokoban over the last hour or so) but are decent.
Level 4 is either impossible or very hard.
Level 10 looked like it would be more interesting than it was. I was hoping for an interesting puzzle and instead just stumbled across the solution.

Levels 4 & 8 are more tedious than interesting.
Level 9 is fairly uninteresting. There's too much safe space: you can recover from pretty much anything.
Level 10 is okay for packing the blocks into the target zone but again there's too a lot of free space when you're just moving them about.
Others are decent.

Level 1 has so much free space that it's just not interesting after having played all this Sokoban already.
I like level 3, there's a nice moment of working out which is the block you need to push inwards.
Level 4 is the same as level 1?

Nitro Crate's new puzzles:
nice puzzles, though difficulty curve is still weird. Levels 1 and 2 have almost no way to lose, and then level 3 is complicated and open ended enough to be fairly difficult.
I like level 4 for it's simple premise and elegant solution.

Bacon: Bacon
Repetition (see last level) and size of puzzle do not cause difficulty of puzzle.

Captain404 I liked level 2. It made me as a player question my assumptions about the game and even though the solution is obvious, it's fairly satisfying to discover.
A bunch of your other levels are pretty cool. Simple designs that still cause the player to think.

Superminiman your level 2 is a very nice introduction to the order matters principle. level 3 seems way too large for such simple puzzle mechanics that it has. Also, the fact that your design allowed me to go off the left of the screen initially caused me to believe it would be a trick puzzle and that would be necessary, but it wasn't. Level 4 is good for being a minimal puzzle.

Jonathan Whiting:
I-III are painfully simple. just because they are more complicated movement doesn't mean they're more complicated solutions. Most of your levels were fairly easy until suddenly level VIII which was amazing. I tried the same incorrect solutions over and over until I deemed it impossible, skipped to IX and then realized it was possible after all. After solving VIII, IX was super easy.
X is a good level.

NiallM
Nice levels. In particular, the first half of the levels all seemed very distinct. they presented interesting puzzles in simple ways, which I like. In particular, level 4 made me stop a bit to think about it; the shape of the level makes the solution less obvious, which I think is a good thing.
The later levels seemed more of the "same old". Level 10 seemed to be drawing on the "large level is complicated to think about". The puzzle part of it was nice, but it seemed to have a bunch of unnecessary space meant simply to "fool" the player. I guess that's probably what you were going for though.

Hybrid: level 1 is boring, even for a simplest level. It doesn't teach the player the rules, but rather it says "that is a win". If the player already knows how to play, he would be bored by it. If not, he probably still doesn't know. Level 2 is better as a how to play level.
Levels 2 and 4 are good. I like 7 because it forces the player to move a boulder off of a goal. Levels 8 is not vary hard other than that it's easy to mess up. Level 9 is unfun. It can be solved in many ways. Basically, it has enough open space that you can start by pushing at random and then simply tweak to solve. It's a long level that looks as if you simply drew a picture, tested that it's solveable, and moved on. Level 10 provides no new mechanics, and is again simply a large/long level that isn't too hard.

Zaratustra:
lolol levels 1 and 4 are the same.

sorry Draknek, haven't played yours yet. Brain says too much sokoban; every level feels the same now.

Really liked Captain_404's and his specific use of this implementation's characteristics. Also just plain smart levels. I haven't played many others; will in a bit.

My levels are below. I'd like to say that I have a bit of experience designing puzzle game levels; I most fondly remember making levels for Polarium and Chu Chu Rocket.

- Tutorial (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBAAABBBEBBBAAABBBDBBBAAABEDCDEBAAABBBABBBAAABBBFBBBAAABBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAA)
- Roundabout (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBAAABAAAAABAAABABBBDBAAABABBBEBAAABABBBCBAAABAAAAABAAABBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAA)
- Ping pong (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBAAABAADEABAAABABBBABAAABAACAABAAABABBBABAAABAEDAABAAABBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAA)
- Wall (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBAAABEEDAABAAABAADAABAAABAADCEBAAABAADAABAAABEEDAABAAABBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAA)
- Rubble (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBAAABBBAAEBAAABBADDBBAAABBACEEBAAABBADDBBAAABBBAAEBAAABBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAA)
- Scatter (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBAAABEAAAEBAAABADDEABAAABADCDABAAABAEDDABAAABEAAAEBAAABBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAA)
- Combination lock (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBAAABBAEABBAAABADADABAAABEACAEBAAABADADABAAABBAEABBAAABBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAA)

- Secret (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBAAABBBBBBBAAABBAAABBAAABBCBDBBAAABBAEABBAAABBBBBBBAAABBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAA)
- Minefield (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBAAABEDEDEBAAABDEDEDBAAABEDCDEBAAABDEDEDBAAABEDEDEBAAABBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAA)
- Cage (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBAAABAAAAABAAABAFFFDBAAABAFCFABAAABAFFFEBAAABAAAAABAAABBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAA)
- Torn (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBAAABBBBBBBAAABBBDBBBAAABBBCBBBAAABBBEBBBAAABBBBBBBAAABBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAA)
- Separate ways (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBAAABBBBBBBAAABBAAFBBAAABBABABBAAABBCAABBAAABBBBBBBAAABBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAA)
- Libertine (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAACAAAAAABBBBBBBAAABBBBBBBAAABBAAABBAAABBADABBAAABBAEABBAAABBBBBBBAAABBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAA)

For these levels I went with a fairly psychological point of view for the first few (Tutorial shows symmetry that is broken by a solved boulder, which pushes the player to reach new symmetry by imitating the movement in the other directions), and then an aesthetic point of view, which is how I tend to design levels (from Wall onwards, mostly; I set out to create interesting geometry). The latter levels were totally aesthetic in their conception, of course, and none is solvable; they present metaphors or just simple jokes by use of the game's space and rules. I used the level names to highlight what I got from them (which is mostly how it was, rather than naming them first and then trying to make the level fit that name). When you have such a delimited set of rules, it's easy to interpret certain states as an abstraction of a much more complex situation.


Ideas for games/editors to feature in the future:

- OmniLudiCon (http://zarat.us/tra/online-games/omniludicon.html)
- Blackflip (http://www.blackflip.org/) (Flash Polarium clone)

Man, I made a bunch of levels for blackflip ages ago; it's a good puzzle game.
Though It'd probably be better to have not-just-puzzle-games in this workshop.

I do not think they are particularly in order of difficulty. Some of them are totally cheating, and I reused some stuff a couple of times.

LEVEL 1 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAACAAAAAAAAADAAAAAAAAAEAAAAAAAAAFAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
LEVEL 2 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BBBBBBBBBBBAAABAAACBBABABABBBBBABABABBBABABABAAABDBABABBBABEBABAAAAABABABBBBBBBABAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBB)
LEVEL 3 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABDBAAAAAAABEBAAAAAAABABAAAAAAABABAAAAAAABCBAAA)
LEVEL 4 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BBBBBBBBBBBCDAEAAAABBCDAEAAAABBCDAEAAAABBCAAEAAAADBCDAEAAAABBCDAEAAAABBCDAEAAAABBCDAEAAAABBBBBBBBBBB)
LEVEL 5 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAABAAAAAAAABCBAAAAAABAAABAAAABABABAAAABEBAAABAABADAFABAAAABAAABAAAAAABAAABAAAAAABABAAAAAAAABAAAAA)
LEVEL 6 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BBBBBBBBBBBAAEEADAABBAAFEBDAABBAAEDADAABBCADEBDAABBAAEDADAABBAAFEBDAABBAAEFADAABBAAEEBAAABBBBBBBBBBB)
LEVEL 7 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BBBBBBBBBBBEAAFAACABBDABAAAAABBAAAAAAAABBAABABBAABBAEDAEBDDBBAABABEDABBAABABBFEBBBBBFFFFFFBABBFFFFFF)
LEVEL 8 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAACAAAAAAAAADAAAAAAAAAEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBAAAAAAABCBAAAAAAABBB)
LEVEL 9 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFAAEFAFAFFFDDAFFFFFFFAAFFFCFFFFFEFFAFAFFFFFEAFADFFFAFFFADAAFFFFFFAAEFFFFFFFFFFFF)
LEVEL 10 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAABBBBAAAABBBAABAAAABAADCBAAAABABAFBBBBABAEDADAEBABABAABBABABEDAEAAABABBBBBAAABAAAAABBBBBAAAAAAAAAA)

JW, I feel that III should have gone before II; III teaches you to push laterally, and II teaches you that you can't pull (which is a step more complicated an idea, I feel). Your last one is pretty fiendish. :)

NiallM, I like how some of your levels have clearly defined 'loops'. Makes those levels feel a bit like one's  going on tracks.

HybridMind, the quality I like about your levels is that many of them are not straight-forward, they do require you to do things in a backwards way. Most could use some trimming, though.

Draknek, I feel that your levels are not very well ordered. Some early ones offer interesting challenges, while some later ones seem fairly trivial. The last one's really smart!

Some general criticism:

As JW has said, it's typical to waste space in one's levels. For small puzzles like those, less is more, so it's 'good' to reduce everything to make it as tight as possible. What this results in is increased clarity: you've reduced the possibility space to only that which is interesting to the resolution of the puzzle--you've cut the chaff. Particularly, in very large levels that have you repeating the same action and going back and forth, it's added tedium; the player already solved the level in their head, but they have to go through the motions just to get the game's approval (this, sadly, happens all the time in mainstream video games that tend to be measured by 'hours of gameplay').

I guess that what stems from this idea is that, if you want it to feel fair, make your level understandable. Cut out all the intricacies that make the ideas behind it less clear.

But of course, you can learn double by taking a certain pattern and reversing it. If, instead, you want to create a level that is seemingly very complicated but in reality has a very simple solution, you can increase the possibility space by intentionally adding the intricacies, thus causing confusion. You can make the player feel like they're working by making them do repeated chores devoid of mental challenge. You can make a level seem more natural by leaving the door open to alternate solutions and experimentation, no a set single solution.


edit:

Lord Tim, I liked your 'thinking out of the box' series, though the ideas are repeated a bit. Level 9 reminds me of a game of go. :) Some of your levels feel very natural, in the sense said above.

I liked a lot of these levels. Most of them I would have an idea of how to solve, but it would turn out to be a trap, and the solution being much simpler. I liked the ones that had false starts which would make you think there was a obvious first move like in 9 and 10, or the ones were you can to incrementally move forward like in 3.


From the ones that are actually solvable, I thought it was interesting how you made the puzzle about the movement around the board than just pushing stuff into the right place. It doesn't seem at first that the solution is about symmetry, but it turns out to be pretty simple once you figure it out. Especially Scatter and Combination Lock. The unsolvable ones would be pretty interesting if there was a "fake block" tile that you could walk through.

Nitro Crate's new puzzles:
I really like the last two; 5 being deceptively simple and 6 having me stumped for a good while until I figured out how to get above the last two blocks.

baconman:
You really like making the player work! ;)  6 was my favourite as it required a bit of thought.  10 was pretty neat, but there was too much space, making it easier than it could have been.

Almost:
Really clever.  8 really threw me by having more holes than boulders, 9 stumped me entirely.

Captain_404:
I like how 4 made me think I was blocking off escape routes by putting the blocks in the corners.  I spent some time working out how to avoid placing them there till the last minute, before realising there was enough space that I didn't need to keep the corners free.

TheDustin:
A lot of these felt like variations on a theme (move one block aside so another can be slotted into place).  6 and 9 were the ones that gave me pause.


Sorry, I meant to comment on everyone's levels, but I'm all sokoban'ed out.  I might try and come back later.

I like Rubble and Combination lock here.

Interesting stuff! Not sure how you would apply this kind of thing in an actual game though.

Level 1: very nice, you got me.
Level 2-4: possibly 3 levels is a bit too much for the same trick, although they all spin it differently.
Level 6: pretty good, needed to think more than I expected.
Level 7: disappointingly easy, was expecting a trick or something.
Level 8: the solution is to go into the editor and change it?
Level 9: I don't like how this one forces you to go offscreen (unless I've missed something).
Level 10: pretty good.

Yeah, I didn't spend any time rearranging them after I'd made them. Couldn't really get a grasp on their relative difficulty levels so soon after having created them.

1 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBCABBBBBBBBDABBBBBBBAAAABBBBBEAABABBBBBBAAAABBBBBBAAAABBBBBBBBABBBBBBBBBBBBB), 2 (http://level=BBBBBBBBBBBAAAAABAABBADAAAADABBABABBAAABBABAEEACABBABAEEAAABBABABBAAABBADAAAADABBAAAAABAABBBBBBBBBBB), 3 (http://level=BBBBBBBBBBBAAAAAAAABBADAAAAAABBACBBBBAABBABBBBBAABBAAAAEBAABBBABBBBAABBAAAAAAAABBAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBBB), 4 (http://level=BBBBBBBBBBBAAAAAAAABBBAAAAAABBBABADAAAABBAADCDBAABBABADEAAABBAABAABAABBBAAAAAAABBAAAABEEEBBBBBBBBBBB), 5 (http://level=AABAAAAAAAABAAAAABAABBAABAABEAAAAAAABABAABABAABAAAAAAAABAABAABAACAAAABBAAAAAABABBBABBABAAAABBAAADABA), 6 (http://level=BBBBBBBBBBBABABBAAABBAAAAAAABBBAAABBBAEBBADAAABAABBABADABAABBAAACBAAABBAABAAFAABBAAEAAAAABBBBBBBBBBB), 7 (http://level=BBBBBBBBBBBAAAAAAAABBADAAAADABBABFAAFAABBAEBABAAABBAECBEFAABBAEDBFFAABBADAAAAFABBAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBBB), 8 (http://level=BBBBBBBBBBBAAAAABEBBBAAAAAAABBBADAAFDAEBBAABAEFAABBAAAAFEAABBADAAAFAABBAAAADBAABBAAAAAAACBBBBBBBBBBB), 9 (http://level=BBBBBBBBBBBAAAAAAAABBAEDEDEDEBBADAAFAAABBAAAABDAABBAEDBEDEFBBAAAAAADABBAAEABEFEBBAAAACAAABBBBBBBBBBB), 10 (http://level=BBBBBBBBABBCAAAAAAEBBAAABBBBABBAABADAAABBAABAAAAABBAAABBBBABBBAAAAAFEBBAAABBAABBBAAABBAAABBBBBBBBBDB)

I haven't really tried to arrange this in any particular order of difficulty (except for level 10), nor did I try to make a difficulty ramp. I mostly made these to seem like they were generated randomly, but with eluding solutions, and to provide mild amusement.

All of these are beatable, and I daresay that I didn't put enough brain stumping in these as I could have.

This isn't really relevant, but I took a course where we wrote Sokoban AIs last year. I had pen help me design a tile-set, for the official demonstration.

This is what the final product looked like, but it was animated when in action:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/DunderDacke/sokoban-kth-21.png?t=1278760717)

(level not designed by me)

Yeah, Dacke, I remember you mentioning that elsewhere. It must have been a nice challenge. The tileset is really cute, by the way.


That only depends on the kind of game you want to make.

MindEraser, you screwed up your links!

Fixed links for you.

These don't really fit the original exercise of being simplified to the core puzzle. Many of them could be simplified quite a bit without really changing anything. Some of them don't feel like they were designed to be challenging.

Level 9 having fewer blocks than targets is a bit weird.

I've got 5 done so far. It's pretty late now though, so I'm heading to bed.

[Level 1] (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBAAAABCAAABAAAABEBBABAAAABDBBABAAAABAAAABAAAABBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA) [Level 2] (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBAABCAAAAABAABABBADABAABABAEAABAABAAEABABAABADABBABAABAAAAAABAABBBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAA) [Level 3] (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBAABEABAAEBAABAAADAABAABADBBCBBAABBABBDABAABAADAAABAABEAABAEBAABBBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAA) [Level 4] (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBAAABEAAAEBAAABABDBABAAABADCDABAAABABDAABAAABEAAAEBAAABBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAA) [Level 5] (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBAABEAAADCBAABADAABEBAABEBAADABAABADAABEBAABEBAADABAABADAAAEBAABBBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAA)

I have to say, the difficulty curve on these are spot on!
I envy your abilities.  :coffee:

With the criticism that I received in mind I made my last six levels, enjoy! :)
Level 5-http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBAAAABCAAEBAAAABADDABAAAABAEDEBAAAABBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAA (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBAAAABCAAEBAAAABADDABAAAABAEDEBAAAABBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
Level 6-http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AABCAABAAAAABFAABAAAAABAFAABAAAABFAFABAAAABADAABAAAABAADBAAAAAABEEBAAAAAABBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AABCAABAAAAABFAABAAAAABAFAABAAAABFAFABAAAABADAABAAAABAADBAAAAAABEEBAAAAAABBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
Level 7 (Is a slight variation of Level 6 btw)- http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AABCAABAAAAABDAABAAAAABEDAABAAAABDEDABAAAABEDEABAAAABAEDBAAAAAABAEBAAAAAABBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AABCAABAAAAABDAABAAAAABEDAABAAAABDEDABAAAABEDEABAAAABAEDBAAAAAABAEBAAAAAABBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
Level 8-http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBAAABEAADABAAAABEDDCBAAAAABEDABAAAAAABEBAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBAAABEAADABAAAABEDDCBAAAAABEDABAAAAAABEBAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
Level 9-http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBAAABACDEEBAAABADBDABAAABAADEEBAAABBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBAAABACDEEBAAABADBDABAAABAADEEBAAABBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
Level 10-http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAABBBBAAAAABBAEABBAAABADADABAAABEACAEBAAABADADABAAABBAEABBAAAABBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAABBBBAAAAABBAEABBAAABADADABAAABEACAEBAAABADADABAAABBAEABBAAAABBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)

Edit: And here's my first four levels http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=13717.msg405176#msg405176 (http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=13717.msg405176#msg405176)

1 - http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBAAAAABACABAAAAABAAABAAAAABBDBBAAAAAABABAAAAAAABEBAAAAAAABBBAAA

2 - http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBABAAAAACEBDBAAAAAABBABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBAAAAAAAAAAAA

3. http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBAAABACAAABAAABABBBABAAABADAAABAAABBBBAABBAAAAABADABAAAAABAEABAAAAABEABAAAAAAABBBAA

4 - http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBAAAABAAAEBAAAABAADABAAAABECDABAAAABAADABAAAABAAAEBAAAABBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAA

5 - http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBAAAABAAAABAAAABAABEBAAAABADDCBAAAABAAEABAAAABBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

6 - http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBAAAABEAAABAAAABBABABBAAAABACDABAAAABADDABAAABBBAAEBAAABEAAABBAAABBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Tried to make them with a difficulty curve.. but they became all too easy  :(

Thanks!  I actually wasn't really sure if they were too hard or too easy, glad you liked them :)



Generally, I agree, they ended up being a bit too easy. If you make the last 4, I would suggest trying to make some really tough levels.

Level 1: Fine start. Easy, and clear what you have to do.
Level 2: Not too bad. However, I noticed that it's basically impossible to push the block in the wrong direction - there is literally no way you can mess it up and have to restart (unless you push it off the screen). I would say that if there is no way to lose in a level (unless it's level one) then it's definitely too easy and should be worked on further.
Level 3: This level was fine. It required some thought as to what you have to do.
Level 4: It's not too bad, but I actually found this easier than level 3.
Level 5: About the same difficulty as level 4, and it didn't really add anything new. I felt that at this point, you should try maybe working with a few more rocks and making the levels a bit bigger.
level 6: A lot better, I think it's heading in the right direction. Still pretty easy, but I had to think for a few moments and figure out which block had to go where before I started.

Don't know if my feedback helps very much, but hopefully it does :)

Feedback Round 2 ...fight!


NiallM:
-For a second level, I think your second level s a bit confusing. Both blocks are being pushed around really tight spaces, which led me to initially believe the blocks belonged in the opposite holes that they actually did.
-There are a few spaces which could be eliminated in level 3, and I don't think it's necessary to start with the player and the first blocked moved over to the right like you have them, it forces the player into only one option for a first move.
-Level 6 feels a little weaker to me than the ones before it.
-Level 8 doesn't really stand well as a puzzle for where it's placed in your progression. If you take away its symmetry, it shows more immediately how simple it is. This is one case where visual complexity != gameplay complexity. Furthermore, I'm not sure the symmetry is necessary to the puzzle itself.
-There are a lot of spaces which are never used in level 10, and honestly, I don't know why they're there.
-Overall, it sort of feel like you came up with one idea in your early levels (which involved a certain rearrangement of three blocks) and kept mutating that for your later puzzles. I'd encourage you to come back to this after playing other peoples levels and see if you can't come up with some more interesting levels.

HybridMind:
Agreed. It also drove me nuts that the board was 10x10.
-Level one, ah yes, the press-a-button-to-win level. The player may win this level simply by mashing random buttons on their keyboard, and so it teaches them nothing about the game. Since the player and the block do not move independently from each other, it is never even clear to the player what exactly pressing this button does. Normally, first levels teach the player two basic things: 1. how to move, and 2. how to win. Because the player's area of movement is so strictly limited and the win condition is so ambiguously defined, this level does neither of these.
-I feel the puzzle in level 4 could be achieved through much simpler design than the one you provide.
-I'm not sure what the purpose of the block to the far right in level 5 serves. It seems an unnecessary distraction.
-Level 6 could be whittled down a bit.
-Level 8 could be achieved with much fewer blocks. Yes, I get it, eight on level eight, but you could achieved the exact same puzzle with only two moving blocks.
-Level 9 has a lot of unused space. The entire bottom row is never walked on apart form the player starting in it.
-I think level 10 is more interested from a scoring perspective, ie: do it in under [X] to win, but from a boolean win standpoint it is not very engaging. More specifically, it really only requires the player to deal with one block at a time (a theme in your levels) despite having so many blocks on the playing field at once.

Zaratustra:
-You can fit the basic puzzle of level 1 into a much much tighter space.
-Level 2 is an interesting approach, but you might want to keep in mind that when faced with a left/right decision, most people choose right. This level could also be trimmed up a bit.
-Is there a way to make level 3 turn green? I can't tell. (though it does illicit funkiness in the top right corner...)
-Level 4 is level 1.

Draknek:
-I thought level 1 was a really great introduction of the mechanics, however dizzying and phallic it may be. For that matter, the left side could have been made a bit shorter.
-I love how smoothly the puzzles evolve from level 2 to 4.
-8, 9, and 10 were a tiny bit weaker than the rest, but the whole set is pretty solid.

agj:
-Tutorial, Roundabout, and Ping Pong are more or less the same level and thus redundant. Though I did enjoy how the flow of Ping Pong related to its title.
-You have no idea how much I love your impossible levels. I wish I had thought of it, and I may have to try making a few impossibles myself!

Lord Tim:
-Level 1 made me laugh. For a second, I actually thought the game had glitched up on me.
-I don't think I can justify the presence of level 5 in this set. It too much space for too simple a puzzle and the visual gimmick is, to be honest, not interesting enough to warrant this sort of level.
-In level 6 there is a lot of useless block pushing before getting to the actual puzzle of it. If these useless bits were cut out of the level it could be more engaging.
-Level 7. Too much useless space.
-LOVE LOVE LOVE level 9, and I think there's more room to explore with this mechanic. Despite its originality, it does use too much space for too little a puzzle.
-I was expecting something a little more wacky from level 10, but it was a good puzzle anyway. The point is that the order of levels is important. Even if you don't arrange your levels by difficulty, at least take the time to arrange them.

MindEraser:
-distance != difficulty. A lot of your levels are needlessly complex. Just because the player is moving around a lot of blocks, or moving around one block a lot doesn't mean the level is actually difficult. I really suggest you go back through all these levels and remove anything that doesn't need to be there. A lot of them feel pretty randomly designed.

Noel:
-I don't personally like levels like level 1. They feel like a lot of moving around for very little payoff. Maybe that's just me though.
-There's a little extra space at the outside corners of level 2, but I don't think it's really a big deal in this case.
-4/5 are really excellent uses of space.

Supermini_man:
-I'm assuming 7 and 6 are to be beat by moving outside the level? The way the levels are set up makes it look a bit accidental, as though you there is a real solution and you didn't anticipate the ability to move beyond the level boundaries. I think if you are to make a level that exploits the outside for a solution, there must be a reason the outside is used. This level could easily slide over a few squares to the right and remain unaffected.
-I think 9 is your best level. 8 felt a bit flat to me, though I don't know why exactly. Interesting 10's similarity to agj's combination lock!

Tuba:
-Why is that extra space in level 1 there? Is it to show that the player can move on two axis? I feel to demonstrate this it would be better if the level required the player to move in two axis. This level doesn't.
-Level 2 interests me in the way you don't really need walls to make the player stay in the box.
-You should give a bit more thought as to what the puzzle of level 4 is for you, as there are multiple ways to solve it.
-More often than not in your later levels, there are multiple blocks, but their paths do not intersect each other at all. It's as if you had three individual levels lumped into one. For your last levels, try focusing on how the blocks move, and how in moving one toward a solution it might obscure the solution of another. As your levels are now, the blocks don't really interact with each other. Why do you really need more than one block in a level if the blocks aren't going to get in each other's way? You don't. Make some levels where the blocks bump into each other and get all annoyed at the other block's clumsiness.

A few levels inspired by agj's set.

Hiding (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BBAAAAAABBBAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAABBBAAAAAABB)
The Chosen One (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBAAABBBBBBAAADABBBBBECAAABBBBBAAADABBBBBBAAABBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB)
The Place Where Time Yawned, Stretching its Arms into the Infinite Horizon Until the Man From Another Dimension Clicked a Tiny Red X (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAB)
The Miser and the Miserable (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BBBBBBBBBBBAABBBBBBBBAAAAAAAABBAEBBBBDABBAAFAAFACBBAAFAAFAABBAABBBBBABBAABBBBBABBBBBBBBBABBBBBBBBBAB)
Awry (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBAAABAAAACBAAABAEDEABAAABADADABAAABAEDEABAAABAAAAABAAABBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)

Wow, whilst I was swanning about and sunning myself on cliffs and ledges this has really blossomed.  Excellent work everyone, this is shaping up to be everything I'd hoped it would be.

I've got loads of stuff to respond to, and a bunch of other things to get done, so I might have to batch my feedback a little.  I promise I will catch up before toooo long.  I also might end up repeating some things that other people have already said, for that I can only apologise.

So, launching into it:


... and that's great when trying to create 'real' levels, but it doesn't do much to illuminate or break down the building blocks of the game.


Whilst I don't really wish to aim this comment at anyone, since you inadvertently brought it up.  As a general rule of thumb don't try and screw around with the player, you'll only put them off.  There are of course many exceptions to this, but the rule of thumb remains important.  If in any doubt, play fair!


Simple is fine, simple is the idea.  Quite a few of the levels could have been reduced some without losing anything significant. In particular I noticed recurring use of symmetry.  Symmetry can be great, but when it just makes a player do the same thing twice it's kinda dull.  I find symmetry works best when you subvert it in some way (through player placement, or subtle differences), so that whilst both halves/quarters/whatever *look* the same, they play in a substantially different way.

Otherwise a pretty solid set, the ideas are good if perhaps unspectacular, and the layouts largely clear and concise.  Good work!


I was all riled up and ready to say it's *meant* to be trivial, it's the simplist possible level, but you make a very good point.  It should have at least taught the player something about movement.  It should have been this puzzle (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAABCBBBAAAAABADAEBAAAAABBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)


I convinced myself it was impossible twice, once when I made it, and again when I played through them quickly before I put them up.  I took this to mean it was a good puzzle.


You're right, I umm'd and ahh'd about including them both, and somehow convinced myself that the 3 boulder one added something different.  It didn't, and I shouldn't have included it.


They certainly aren't a great set of levels as far as playability is concerned, and I wouldn't ever release a game with a level set that tedious.  The intention was to try and explore the most minimal space as completely as possible.  This does mean the set is low on ideas, but it did help me gain a more fundamental understanding on the interaction of the mechanics at the base level, which is the real focus of the exercise.



This, 1000x over.  It is really important to note that whilst it's very possible to come in with familiarity to a game like sokoban, or a conventional platformer etc. there will probably be times we'll have to design levels for games we don't yet fully understand the mechanics of, and aren't even sure they'll be compelling.  That is the time to reach for this excercise, to find the smallest chunks of 'playability', and gain an appreciation of what can be done with them.  Leap blindly into trying to make big and final levels and one is likely to make much less interesting levels than they're capable of.


Haha, sorry.  I didn't realise this would be a problem.. Surely though centering say, 6x6 in an 11x11 grid is just as hard though?


The first 3 are exellent examples of exactly the sort of deconstruction I was after.  Four felt weak, there are far too many possible solutions, and it would be improved greatly by preventing many of them in some way (perhaps fill in some of the gaps in the grid?), it would lead to a much more complicated level though.

In fact, the same weakness is repeated through much of the rest of the set.  It's a shame, as there are also some really nice ideas hidden in there too, it's just a struggle to see them.  The set would really benefit from some time spent identifying the underlying ideas, and replacing the puzzles with versions that just contain the core idea and eschew the aesthetic concerns.

...

As mentioned before I'll be batching my responses a bit, more will follow later...

Thanks for the criticism. 7 and 6 are both beatable without moving outside the level, but to be fair to solve them there is way much moving and they also look too intimidating.

http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBABAAAAEACBABABDBDBDBABAAEAEAEBABABDBDBDBABAAAEAAEBABBBBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBABAAAAEACBABABDBDBDBABAAEAEAEBABABDBDBDBABAAAEAAEBABBBBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBAAAAAAABCBAAAAAAABDBAAAAAAABEBAAAAAAABBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBAAAAAAABCBAAAAAAABDBAAAAAAABEBAAAAAAABBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBABEDEAAACBBBAABBBEBBBAAAADADABBAABEBBAABBAAADDAEBBBAABABABEBBAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBBB (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBABEDEAAACBBBAABBBEBBBAAAADADABBAABEBBAABBAAADDAEBBBAABABABEBBAAAAAAAABBBBBBBBBBB)

Quick three...

I really liked this one!

Feeling frisky (?) so I decided to go through a stage-creation process. Maybe this will interest somebody, here is the final level first to play:

Intelligent Design vs. Creationism (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBAAABEAAAABBAABDDABAABAABABEBBABBABADAABAABABABAAEDABABCAADBAEBABEFBAAAABABBBBBBBBB)

EDIT: not totally satisfied with this, even after a few tries reworking I can't make it quite as tight as I would like to. Moving on to other things!
---

Here we go!

http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAEAAAAAAAAAADAAAAAAAAABEAAAAAAAADAAAAAAAAAAAAEDAAAAAAADBAEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAEAAAAAAAAAADAAAAAAAAABEAAAAAAAADAAAAAAAAAAAAEDAAAAAAADBAEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)

First laid out the holes, and the rocks. In starting the level this way, I'm creating a puzzle for myself.

What we want to do next is decide if the blocks should be pushed into the logical hole or not. Let's start with the lowermost. We want to make it so that it won't be pushed directly "up".

http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAEAAAAAAAAAADAAAAAAAAABEBBAAAAAADAABAAAAAAAAAEDAAAAAAADBAEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAEAAAAAAAAAADAAAAAAAAABEBBAAAAAADAABAAAAAAAAAEDAAAAAAADBAEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)

This helps, because the nearest rock is going to have a harder time making it into the second from the top hole.

http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAEAAAAAAAAAADAAAAAAAAABEBBAAAAAADAABAAAAAAAAAEDAAAAAAADBAEBAAAABAAAAAAAAABBBAAA (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAEAAAAAAAAAADAAAAAAAAABEBBAAAAAADAABAAAAAAAAAEDAAAAAAADBAEBAAAABAAAAAAAAABBBAAA)

More limiting on the second from the bottom rock. We'll have space to move around, but first we need to push it to the left. This rock is now almost definitely going to go in the second from bottom or second from top hole.

http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAEAAAAAAAAAADAAAAAAAAABEBBAAAAAADAABAAAAAAAAAEDAAAACAADBAEBAAAABAAAAAAAAABBBAAA (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAEAAAAAAAAAADAAAAAAAAABEBBAAAAAADAABAAAAAAAAAEDAAAACAADBAEBAAAABAAAAAAAAABBBAAA)

We'll put the player up here; we're imagining her first task will be that second from the bottom rock, somehow, so we put her far away from it.

http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBAAAABEAAAAAAAABADAAAAAAABABEBBABBABADAABAABABAAAAEDABABCAADBAEBAAAABAAAAAAAAABBBAAA (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBAAAABEAAAAAAAABADAAAAAAABABEBBABBABADAABAABABAAAAEDABABCAADBAEBAAAABAAAAAAAAABBBAAA)

These walls seem an obvious thing, given our imagined path for the player.

http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBAAAABEAAAAAAAABADABAAAAABABEBBABBABADAABAABABABAAEDABABCAADBAEBAAAABAAAAAAAAABBBAAA (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBAAAABEAAAAAAAABADABAAAAABABEBBABBABADAABAABABABAAEDABABCAADBAEBAAAABAAAAAAAAABBBAAA)

We're trying to railroad the player into dealing with the second from the bottom rock early on, by making her block herself in if she doesn't.

http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBAAAABEAAAAAAAABDDABAAAAABABEBBABBABADAABAABABABAAEDABABCAADBAEBABEFBAAAAAABBBBBBAAA (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBAAAABEAAAAAAAABDDABAAAAABABEBBABBABADAABAABABABAAEDABABCAADBAEBABEFBAAAAAABBBBBBAAA)

Now we're getting somewhere. We added an extra block with a hole as a distraction (attraction for the first move?) and made it so the player will have to walk around and push the top block to the upper right. Well, that's not really required YET...

http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBAAABEAAAABAAABDDABAAAAABABEBBABBABADAABAABABABAAEDABABCAADBAEBABEFBAAAABABBBBBBBBB (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBAAABEAAAABAAABDDABAAAAABABEBBABBABADAABAABABABAAEDABABCAADBAEBABEFBAAAABABBBBBBBBB)

... but it (probably) is now, because otherwise she is going to jam herself in if she tries to move the top rock "left".

So our sequence now is to walk around and push the top rock to the right.

Now I'll take a break and play this a bit, see what it looks like...

I like it so far. One thing that is sort of nice is that if I make a mistake and don't do the intended rock first, but do the second from the top, I can undo my mistake (just barely).

http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBAAABEAAAABBAABDDABAABAABABEBBABBABADAABAABABABAAEDABABCAADBAEBABEFBAAAABABBBBBBBBB (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBAAABEAAAABBAABDDABAABAABABEBBABBABADAABAABABABAAEDABABCAADBAEBABEFBAAAABABBBBBBBBB)

And actually, that's good! I'll call it done. However I wonder something, what if I put an extra block..

http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBAAABEAAAABBAABDDABAABAABABEBBABBABADAABAABABABAAEDABABCABDBAEBABEFBAAAABABBBBBBBBB (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBAAABEAAAABBAABDDABAABAABABEBBABBABADAABAABABABAAEDABABCABDBAEBABEFBAAAABABBBBBBBBB)

... Here? Well, it becomes unbeatable. Let's call it a day!

One last thought: this way of building a level works pretty well, but what about levels with more than one (interesting) solution? Would they need to be at the same complexity to be satisfying? What about red herrings?

These are good, especially level 5.

Level 6&7 would be better with a wall on the left-hand side, but otherwise are good. I think those are the strongest from this set.

I agree that these are quite easy, although for this exercise difficulty isn't strictly required.

Level 6 is heading towards interesting puzzles, try doing more of whatever process you used there.

Level 1 is solid.
Level 2 should either be the very first level in a set (although see discussion earlier in thread about why "push button to immediately win" is bad) or non-existent; level 2 is not where it belongs.
The extra target in level 3 should be removed in my opinion, other than that it's a decent level though.

This level is quite boring: you can basically solve all the blocks separately one after another.

Your "unbeatable" level (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBAAABEAAAABBAABDDABAABAABABEBBABBABADAABAABABABAAEDABABCABDBAEBABEFBAAAABABBBBBBBBB), on the other hand, is a lot better (and is beatable).

one (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBAAAAAAABCBAAAAAABBDBAAAAAABAABBBAAAABAAAEBAAAABBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
two (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBAAAAAAABCBAAAAAABBDBAAAAAABAABBBAAAABAAAEBAAAABBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
three (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBAAAABCAAABAAAABADBABAAAABAAAABAAAABAAAABAAAABADBABAAAABAAAABAAAABBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAA)
four (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBAAABCBAAABAABBABEBEBAABADAAAABAABAAADAABAABBBBAABBAAAAABBBBAAAAAAAAAAAA)
five (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBAAABBEAAABAAABAABDABAAABCAFAABAAABAFBDABAAABBEBAABAAAABBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)

To be continued? Tommorow maybe?

Agreed, and hah! You're right... Just to be clear, I was doing the level creation in a stream-of-consciousness style, so the outcome wasn't really determined when I started, if that makes sense.

Okay, my next batch of responses..

First up, just noticed Nitro Crate slipped some new levels in:


... and the set feels a lot more cohesive and concise now, good job!


There's some decent enough concepts in there, but the flab makes them a bit tiresome.  I'm sure you already realise that though.  Would love to see these tightened up a bit.


I really liked this set, a great little collection of studies in boulder interaction and enclosed spaces.  Very low fat too, although I did see one or two savings along the way.  The arrow level was a really great example of gameplay + aesthetics coming together in a strictly level design enviroment.  I don't think it matters that some of the others were a little dry, this is all about the fundamentals after all.


Truthfully I'd not regularly actual run down and record such simple ideas before leaping into 'proper' level design when actually developing.  I would however at some stage run through situations as basic as these through my head, especially whilst implementing new mechanics, to make sure I haven't missed anything important and simple.  As with so many things in life knowing that you could do something if you needed to is often more useful than actually doing it.


The idea behind it was "the order you push the boulders is important", and rendered as simply as possible.  I'll admit it's a pretty dull idea, especially when there's so many more exciting ones out there, but I was trying to be pretty hard-line with myself on my own "distilling simple ideas" brief.


Thanks, it was definately the favourite of the ones I'd managed.


Yep, I should have binned it.


This is a pretty interesting set of levels, and they do feel well suited to levels in an actual game.  In the confines of the excercise though they lack the narrow-minded minimalistic punch that has elevated the best of the puzzles we've seen here.  At times yours was another set through which the dark side of symmetry (repeated actions without variation) shone through.  Combination lock was beautiful though, I think particularly because despite the symmetry in starting positions the solution is necessarily asymmetric.  The joke puzzles amused me.


A very amusing set certainly, but not exactly what I was after ;)

It's perhaps relevant to note that the actual direct puzzle element of these wasn't generally as good as in the focused/condensed efforts of some of the others.  To me this helps demonstrate why it's worth getting the basics nailed down before you start working on more expansive/creative ideas.


Well, they certainly do appear that way, but it isn't so clear why that might be a good idea.  In the best level designs almost every element is meaningful, and carefully placed to improve the game as a whole.  Randomness is therefore pretty much anti-matter to level design.  I don't mean to say you can't use it, more that it should be handled with far more care than is present in this set.  I'm afraid these largely feel rather flat and tedious.

I think that's my sokoban limit hit for today, I'll resume feedback-ing tomorrow.

This One (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBABBBEAAAABBBAAABBBABBEEFAADAABBEBAAADABBBAABBBBAABBDAAACDAABBAAAABAABBBBBBBBBBBA) is beatable; the only solution I can find is pretty interesting/convoluted, but I'm worried there's an easy solution?

I'm not sure which solution I got, but I was able to beat it on my second try (first try accidentally pushing the rock below you at the start down)

Here's a list of step by step as to what I did. Not sure how clear they are...
 - Went around and pushed the rock on the far right, (below you at the start) up two, to provide a pathway
 - Pushed far left bottom rock up 1
 - Pushed middle bottom rock down 1, went back around, and pushed it left
 - Pushed the two top right rocks into place in the top 2 positions
 - Pushed the top left rock (that has yet to be moved) up one
 - Pushed the top of the two now left directly up until it was on a finish thing
 - Pushed the last one up and then left.


I liked it though, because it took a lot of thought and the blocks didn't always go right where you thought they would. ;D

This was hard! Not that convoluted, though. This is how I solved it (step by step):

http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBABBBEAAAABBBAAABBBABBEEFAADAABBEBAAADABBBAABBBBAABBDADCAAAABBAAAABAABBBBBBBBBBBA
http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBABBBEAAAABBBAAABBBABBEEFAADAABBEBAAACDBBBAABBBBAABBDADAAAAABBAAAABAABBBBBBBBBBBA
http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBABBBEAAAABBBAAABBBABBEEFADCAABBEBAAAADBBBAABBBBAABBDADAAAAABBAAAABAABBBBBBBBBBBA
http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBABBBEAAAABBBAAABBBABBEEFADADABBEBAAAACBBBAABBBBAABBDADAAAAABBAAAABAABBBBBBBBBBBA
http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBABBBEAAAABBBAAABBBABBFEFADADABBCBAAAAABBBAABBBBAABBAADAAAAABBAAAABAABBBBBBBBBBBA
http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBABBBEAAAABBBAAABBBABBFEFADADABBFBAAAAABBBCABBBBAABBAAAAAAAABBAAAABAABBBBBBBBBBBA
http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBABBBEAAAABBBAAABBBABBFFCADADABBFBAAAAABBBAABBBBAABBAAAAAAAABBAAAABAABBBBBBBBBBBA
http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBABBBEAAAABBBAAABBBABBFFFCAADABBFBAAAAABBBAABBBBAABBAAAAAAAABBAAAABAABBBBBBBBBBBA
http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBABBBFAAAABBBAACBBBABBFFFAAAAABBFBAAAAABBBAABBBBAABBAAAAAAAABBAAAABAABBBBBBBBBBBA


edit -


Really liked this one. :) Also, Hiding was surprising.

Ah, that is a lot simpler than my solution. Basically where you diverged (and saved yourself a lot of hassle) was by pushing the middle bottom rock down one, which I didn't think to do. This is a fun exercise, I can't stop:

Not that hard... (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAABBBBBAAAAABAAEBBBBBBBABABEAAABBABDADABABBABABBEBABBABABAADCBBABADEDBABBAAEAAAAABBBBBBBBBBB)

Cute? (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BBBBBBBBBBBAAAAAABBBBABBBBABBBBABADCDABBBABEAEEDEBBABDEDAABBBAAABABBBBBAAAAABBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB)

Jellybeanz! (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAABBBBBAAAABAAAAABAABADBBBAEBABAAAAADEBBEABABABCBBEABABADEBBADBABBAABBAADADAABABEABAABBAAABBBBBAAAA)

I'm actually really happy with Jellybeanz, which I think isn't so much hard as it is satisfying. I remember playing a strategy game here sometime last year (can't recall what it was called) but one of the things that was the most satisfying is when there was a pattern that sort of naturally unwound as you played, but you didn't fully comprehend.

This is still going? I guess I'll finally get around to making some more maps.
Ok, so I've tried to be different. Every puzzle is a small set of objects in an open space, as opposed to a set of objects in a maze.
As a result, most of these are pretty easy to beat. There are no long puzzles, instead there are several unique simple puzzles.
Level 8 is my favourite; it presents a simple scenario that is much more complicated than it appears, forcing the player to think about what has to be done in order to solve for all of the boulders rather than solving for just some of them.

Level 1 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADEAAAAAAAAAFAAAAAAAAAFAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA): introduce the goal and controls
Level 2 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADAAAAAAAABBBAAAAAAAAEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA): first obstacles
Level 3 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEABAAAAAAAADAAAAAAAABAEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA): forcing the player to think about how they are limited when guiding boulders
Level 4 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAFAAAAAAAABDBAAAAAAAAEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA): forcing the player to move a boulder off of the dots
Level 5 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABDABAAAAAAAFFAAAAAAABBEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA): further moving boulders that are already on dots
Level 6 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEDBBAAAAAADAABAAAAAABAEAAAAAAABBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA): intentional misdirection, forcing the player to do the opposite of what he wants to do first
Level 7 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAACAAAAAAAAAEBABEAAAAABEDEBAAAAAADADAAAAAABADABAAAAAABABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA): semisymmetric puzzle
Level 8 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAFEFAAAAAAADEDAAAAAAABBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA): trying to push two boulders onto the same set of dots
Level 9 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABEFEBAAAAAADEDAAAAAAABFDAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA): expanding on the idea from level 8 with increased complexity

@Almost:

Great levels, and taking the approach of removing all outer walls really helps to narrow down on a certain set of mechanics. This was a great progression and really in the spirit of the workshop.

For me the most interesting mechanics of the ones you explored that I ran into while making my levels were "intentional misdirection" and "moving boulders already on dots". One aspect of the level design that I didn't see (but used) when I was making my levels, but that you show quite well, is "push two boulders onto the same set of dots".

This is interesting because it's one way that ordering becomes important; depending on how the squares are laid out, you can deduce what order you need to place them on.

Consider a setup like this (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBAAAAAAABEBAAAAAAABEDDAAAAAABABAAAAAAABEADCAAAAABBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA); there is a very specific order that the spots have to be filled, no matter what. I guess it's not strictly because of next-door-neighbour spots that you get ordering, but it's interesting anyhow.

EDIT: I think maybe the reason that the multiple "dots" together is so compelling is that you know it's a final configuration, so it's a place to start in working the problem from reverse. Other configurations in the level might be order-dependent to, but it's not usually as obvious that to achieve a certain configuration is desirable as with the final state.

Really enjoyed these ones! The first two I got pretty fast, but the last one has got me stumped. Going give it a go every now and then until I beat it.

Another block of feedback..


As in, sokoban solving AI presumably?  That sounds pretty facinating, presumably you can't brute force all but the very simplist puzzles, so you need to come up with heuristics towards solutions?  I'm not sure I'd know where to start.


Cute :)


These are pretty slick.  I would say though that they feel a bit busy and long-winded.  It feels like you'd have a great pure set of 5 levels if you unpicked each of the specific ideas you used and created them as individual mini-puzzles.


Honestly I think whilst these have some improvements on the original set, a lot of the criticism on the original set still applies to these new levels.  6 and 7 are kinda weak, they are repetitive, exploitative (going off the screen), and unexciting.  Level 10 was among the better of the symmetrical puzzles that I've seen though.


There's nothing wrong with easy.  These certainly aren't bad, but do seem to re-tread the same ground a little bit.  There is also some room in most of them to compress things significantly further (and I suspect doing so might have revealed the similarities between the puzzles).


Cute.

I'll finish catching up tonight...

Just as a heads-up, I might not quite manage to get the next exercise up this evening.  Todays been a hectic day and I only slept 4 hours last night.  I'd also originally planned the next exercise to be more sokoban, but as people have quite reasonably been covering the ground I'd intended to cover (making more complicated puzzles using the building blocks), and I for one am a bit sick of sokoban I think I should mix it up.  This means a bit more dev time.  Anyway I'll get something up as soon as possible, bear with me till then :)

...finishing catching up


These felt a bit loose, like there we're lots of solutions available.  They could do with some effort to block some of the alternate paths out, also some shrinking (apart from the middle one, obviously).


Breaking the process down is a pretty great idea, but the actual level isn't that inspiring.  It suffers the same problem as your previous levels, it's a bit loose.  Tried to see if I could tighten it up a bit (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAABBAAAAAABBAABAAAAABADABAAAAABCBEBBBBAABADAEAABAABEBADDABAAABBABAEBAAAABAAAABAAAABBBBBA)


Two seems to be a repeat of one, and three seems broken.  Don't know if something went a bit  wrong or?  The remaining levels have some promise, but I'd like to see more.


This is a lot more like it.  It's not as atomic as I was hoping for with this particular exercise, but it *is* a pretty solid puzzle :)


You can drop the entire top row (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAABBAAAAAAABEBBBBBBAABABEAAABAABDADABABAABABBEBABAABABAADCBAABADEDBABAABEAAAAABAABBBBBBBB) of "Not that hard..." and having done that the top left boulder feels unnecessary (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBAAABBEAAABAABAADABABAABABBEBABAABABAADCBAABADEDBABAABEAAAAABAABBBBBBBB)

The same sort of stuff applies to "Cute".  Jellybeanz seems fairly solid.


Wow, that's really inspiring.  Very clever, and a perfect though surprising way of meeting the exercise.  Excellent!

I've been following this and playing a bunch of the levels - I've found a lot of them pretty cool : )

This exercise has been so great and informative to see all the level ideas created within the 10x10 grid of this editor.  Really quite inspirational.

I appreciate the feedback I've been given on my level designs and feel I almost entirely agree with the criticism they've received. After playing so many of your levels I do believe I would be able to create some much more refined and better levels.

I'm very short on time right now unfortunately to be able to respond in depth like many of you have but I wanted to at least give a few mentions of levels I particularly enjoyed or found noteworthy to my own tastes and preferences. Luckily there has been so much great feedback given it seems no one should feel too wanting hopefully. I'm going to skim through all the levels again and try to capture some of the impressions I remember from playing them. My apologies to those I don't mention. I've played and solved almost everything everyone has posted though and learned a lot from them.


I really found this level to be pretty enjoyable to solve. It took me quite a few attempts and I liked that it looked fairly straightforward at first and only once you started shoving boulders around would you then mess up and have to start again / think it through.

I found your preceeding 5 lead along a nice curve of increasing challenge as well.


While I know this level received valid criticism of being able to be simplified a good bit it was still the first time I encountered the three boulders in a vertical column mechanic. Like I mentioned many posts ago I have not really played much Sokoban before (and not recently at all) so I skipped this level initially as being broken. It was only a little later that I read some feedback of it that made me realize it must have been beatable. I tried harder and then discovered how it was solvable. This made me really excited in just realizing how some puzzles could trick the player into just halting almost or intimidating them and I found that enlightening.  It was not that the level looked over complicated--it was that the level looked so simple and yet I thought it was unsolvable that made me just skip it initially. Well done. Had this been in a game that barred advancement until solving was complete it would have made finishing it all the more rewarding.


Found this level to be a really rewarding challenge.  I liked this best of your series but enjoyed playing a few of the others as well.  This one shined for me though.  I enjoyed how much traversal I had to make around the structure as well as appreciating the fact that it was left so open around the edges. It gave me a tangible feeling of space as I trekked back and forth attempting to accomplish my goals. 


Brilliant and elegant level. So simple in layout yet so insidious in solution. I must've played this at least 6 or more times before cracking it. I just like how so few blocks created so much challenge.


Wow so awesome! I played this over 10 times at least and was mentally sweating as I struggled to figure out how it must be solved. It was SO rewarding when I realized the simple brilliance of the solution and tried to take mental note of that slick mechanic that was used to allow the solution. It made me really wonder how you created this one and impressed by how frugal it was on level piece usage.


Just wanted to mention that I really enjoyed playing around with these known unsolvable levels that were made to encapsulate the idea of the level name. It is examples like this that I am particularly drawn to which show the power of suggestion and pattern matching in our own brains that can lead to experiencing an abstract level concept as art much like staring at an abstract painting with a title (or not) can lead us to seeing "images in the clouds" in a sense. It was also a nice break from the analytical solving I had been doing up to that point and was a welcome palette cleanser.


I haven't had a chance to more than skim a bunch of levels posted by people since agj's levels... but did encounter one level in particular of psysals:


THIS LEVEL IS MY BANE!!! I love it so much and I have not yet cracked it despite over 20 plays. I can't wait to defeat it.

I also appreciated your in depth posts about ways you experimented with various processes of level design. The stepped out levels that showed you adding elements were really great. I had been considering if a process like that might work out when designing my levels. I thought "well maybe I can throw down some goal-holes with boulders on them already and then play the editor to track how the player may push them off and reverse build a neat level." It was great to see that concept outlined as I hadn't had a chance to try it myself.  I am not sure exactly if you used this process to build Jellybeanz! but it is one of the first ones I've been unable to solve. So many times I thought "Oh now I've got you!" and found I was celebrating too early as I then saw to my horror that I was trapped yet again. I feel I need to use a different mode of problem solving to tackle this one but that is just my intuitive feeling/fear now based on so many failed attempts.

agj I love your levels, the aesthetic angle is always welcome, and I think you used it best on the Cage level.

No idea what you were going for with Secret. At first I thought you may have created some sort of pattern in the URL which was broken or something and would make the level beatable when fixed, but that didn't end up being true...

So I changed the URL and beat it.

Secret was just a way to show that the following levels were unbeatable. I initially conceived it as a last level, to make the reveal at the end, but the other levels I came up with were not opaque enough for that.

That's a really clever idea, though; wish it had been the case! (You should've made such a level.)

Right, apologies for being so slow getting round to this but..

Exercise 2: Composition and Pacing

Originally I'd intended this second excercise to an extention of the first.  We'd take the base pieces of the sokoban puzzles and put them together into larger puzzles.  I think now though that we ended up covering a fair amount of that ground anyway, and I for one feel rather sokoban'd out.

So I thought it might be better if we looked at composition from a platform game perspective instead.  For me composition and pacing tie together pretty firmly, so I want to try and cover that a little bit too.,

My composition I mean the combination of the 'little sections' that I talked of in Exercise 1, and the challenge that the juxtaposition of these challenges create.  This can be as simple as two identical jumps placed sequentially, or as complex as entire levels.  It is important to be able to make sound judgements on how these juxtapositions effect the difficulty of a section.

What I mean by pacing is hopefully more obvious.  It is the way the difficulty varies over a level and/or series of levels.  Though actually getting pacing right is far more of a black art.  It is fairly clear that games are generally at their best when they start easy and end hard, but how the difficulty should best curve between the two extremes is something very open to dispute.

Frequently mentioned is the rising sinusoidal difficulty curve:

(http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/difficulty.png)

.. but whilst I do think that's a very sound approach I wouldn't consider it to be the only one with value.  I think most important is that whatever you aim for you should both be aware of the 'curve' that you are targetting, and try to avoid any strongly outlying sections (either easier or harder).

The Task

Create a level, or a short series of levels focused entirely on manipulating difficulty.  Pick an approach; a pacing you want to achieve and a length first, and then build the level around that framework.

As per the first excercise, and I want to make this particularly clear this time: Don't get hung up on aesthetic concerns!  We've got plenty of time to look into how to make levels visually appealing and consistently interesting.  It's something I completely intend to cover in a big way later on.  For now, just focus on difficulty at the expense of everything else.  Doing otherwise risks hiding the lessons that we can pick up from the exercise.

As my link-copying flash sokoban thing seemed to work fairly well last time I decided to continue with that idea.  Whilst you should still feel free to investigate the exercise in something else if you prefer I've made a platformer/editor thing available at:

http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf)

It's pretty much just a bit of a mash-up of the sokoban one and my basic platforming code from Love Letter.  Hopefully it'll work out okay.  As a general point, as I'll probably be reusing this core functionality again in the future, do let me know if there's anything I can do to make using it substantially easier.

Usage is much the same as the sokoban one..


All clear?  I can't wait to see what comes out from this.

Oh, and as an effort to isolate some of the building blocks we'll be using I made this (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=BPDNHJGQJHJHAIHJHJFLHJHJHgIHgIHJHJGgJHJHJHgIHgIHgIHJHJHgIHgIHgIHgIHJHJFhJHJHJHgIHgIHgIHgIHgIHJHJGgJFhJGgJHJHJFhJFhJHJHgIHgIHgIHgIHgIHgIGYJCO).  Might be useful *shrug*.

Error #2046 using your link, and mine.

anyway, assuming that gets fixed, level (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=HCPIFIBgHAgHAgEgBJEgCIEICIEICIHAIHQIHAIAJBICIAICMAIGgAIDIBgAIDIBgAIGgAIGgHAgHAgHAgFIBgFIBgHAgCgEgCIEgCIBIBgFIBgEJBgBPGIAgGIAgBJgBgAgDgBgAgAgBIBgAgAgBgBIAgHAgHAgBgCIBgBICgBgBIFgBIFgBgFgHAgGgAgGIAgAgJCgAgAgYIEgCgEgCgEgCgAgCgCKBIgCgAIAJgHh) I'm too tired to keep going, but basically there's a "warm up" area, that introduces the player to "challenges" that are relatively easy, but educate them on the importance of being able to judge high and low jumps and where to use them, then there is a simple challenge in the middle with more "real" danger (even an experienced player may fumble a jump here), followed by the real challenge area of the level, which will hopefully encourage emergent gameplay and make the player weigh up the cost/benefit of the paths, and which one suits their style. They may even try to cheat the system. Basically, difficulty curve is something like
_----''''^^, don't dwell on the easy bit but don't swamp the level in impossible jumps. I suppose it's a bit of a log graph really.

Anyway, tired, night

Hmm, strange, the links are working fine for me.. anybody else having problems?


The first of the 'low jumps' is pretty brutal, in fact, after the warm up section all of the rest is very hard indeed.  The increase in difficulty is very very steep, and I think the level would have benefitted from longer dwelling on the easy bit.

I wasn't sure I liked the middle section that much.  Something about the layout made it feel like there was one intended route, and the others were there by mistake.  This wasn't so much from the difficulty which was quite similar in each path, but because of the appearance of a natural path (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=HCPIFIBgHAgHAgEgBJEgCIEICIEICIHAIHQIHAIAJBICIAICMAIGgAIDIBgAIDIBgAIGgAIGgHAgHAgHAgFIBgFIBgHAgCgEgCIEgCIBIBgFIBgEJBgAYPAdIAgFYIAgBJgAYgAgDgAYgAgAgZIAYgAgAgZgAYIAgAaBYBgAYAYAZBgAYgaIBgAYICgBgAYIFgZIFgYAgFgYHgbCgAgCbIAgAgJBYgAgAgYIBYBgCgBZAgCgCYAgCgAgAYAgCKZIgCgAIYJgHh) (I traced it in Goals).  I guess mentioning this is a little opposed to my "only consider difficulty message" I gave, but it feels worth mentioning anyway.

Despite my misgivings, there's some nice stuff in here.  I'm particularly impressed by the interestingly difficult challenges at the end.

The links all work fine for me.

Is that last jump on your demo level even possible Jonathan?

It is, though I'm not convinced I'd recommend using it, it does touch on the unfair.

All works for me.

R to reset would be nice, as well as E to switch between edit and test mode.

"Play" and "Edit" gives a larger clickable area than "P" and "E".

And in general, it's nice to have undo/redo in an editor, but that's not essential, especially with as few tiles as we have here.

For this challenge specifically, a checkpoint tile might be nice.

I'll agree that the low jump is a big difficulty spike.

I liked the choice of routes in the middle.

I don't see the button to go into editor/play mode anywhere

Can I suggest that right click be delete the current tile? It'd be a lot easier than selecting the empty one and going over it.

Hey guys, first off I'd like to apologize for not giving my critiques for your sokoban levels -- I've been going through a rough patch lately. Hopping on a library computer and working on these levels has made my day though. Once I get access to the internet regularly I'll make sure to do better, cross my heart.
 
My six levels are meant to be played sequentially, kinda had to rush through them due to a time constraint. Feel free to rip them apart.

level one: http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=PKFQAJGKHJHJHJFLHJHJHJHJHJHJGgJHJHJHJHJFhJHJHJHJHJGKFLHJHJHJEMHJHJHJHJGKFLFLHgIHgIHgIEMHJHJHJGKHgIHgIHgIGKHJHJHJHJGYJHPK

level two: http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=PKFQAJHJGKHJHJEIBJEIBJHJHJCIDJHJHJBPFLHJHJDICJDICJHJHJDICJHJHJHJDICJHJDICJHJHJHJCOHJHJHJFLGgJGgJDIBgJGgJGgJDIBgJGgJGgJGgJDIBgJGgJDIBgJGgJGgJGgJGgJEMDYPN

level three: http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=PKBYIBQKCIDJCIDJCIDJHgIHgICICIgIHgIHgIHgICICIgIHgIHgIHgIHgICICIgIHgIHgIHgICICKHJFgAJCIBgAJCIBgAJFgAJFgAJFgAJDIAgAJDIAgAJFgAJFgAJFgAJDICJDICgIDICgIHgIHgIFPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPK

level four: http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=PKFQKHJHJHJHJHJjBhJHJHJHJGKFLHgIiBiJHgIHJHJHgIGKFLEMHJHJgBkJHgIHgIHJHgIHgIHgIGKHgIFIAgIHgIEIBgIHgIHgIHgIDICgIHgIHgIHgICIDgIHgIHgIjCKHJHJHJHJHJHJFYPL

level five: http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=PKAQPHgIHgIjBLFLHgIHgIHgIHgIHgIFLFLHgIHgIHgIHgIHgIFLHgIHgIHgIFLHgIHgIiBiJHgIHgIFLHgIHgIiAjJHgIGKGKHgIHgIHgICIDgIFLFLEMBPAPIAPIAPIGPIAPIAPIAOCOAPIAPIYPN

level six: http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=POQPBPEgLEgLBPIAPIAPIAPEgLEgLEgLEgLCPBNCNCNCOBPBPHgIHgIiBIBgIhFgIhFgIhBgKgJCgKgJCIjJCICKGgIkCgIkCgJFLFLFLiAhLFLFLFLGgJGgJEMDNFLgAjLFLFLEMDNCOBPBPAYPPPJ

Haven't played through all your levels yet, but I really like the beginning of this one. Asking the player to vault the harmless obstacles, then the harmful ones arranged in the same pattern.

I think it's pretty clever is all :S

EDIT: First Attempt (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=HBnhHIgCQDIgHIgHIgHAgHAgHIgHIgHIgHAgHAgHAkEgDIDgDICIgHIgHIhBIBIgIhBIBICgBIBICgBIhICgDgDgDgDgDgDgBJgDhAIAgDgBJgDgDgDgDgDgDgDgBJgDhAIAgDgBJgDgDgDgDhCgEgDgBJgDgBIAgDgBJgDgDgDgEgDgEgDgBJgEgAIAgEgAIGgAIHAIHAIHAIHAIHAIHYIDNC)

Here is mine that is way too hard. I will try and do one that ramps better later today, though. I just had fun with this one. It has two paths, which are about the same difficulty, and are both beatable, though I haven't done either in one run. I've beaten them with cheater checkpoints.

Oh god it hurts (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=HIBgMAgCIQAJAIBgIBJAgCIBgIAIBgIBJAgCIBgIAIBgIBgIAgCIBJAIBgIBIgBIEIgBgDgAgBgCIiBIDiBgFIBlAIBIgAgCIBiBKBhBJDIBKDIAJgIgBgIALEgIDgBgDgDICgAgBgCgAgBgCIgAgBgCIAgAgBgBgBgDIgAgFgBgEgIAgAgBIBgCIEIBgBgAIgBhChEgDIBIgCiAgIEiAIFhAgIAgIBIgAgFhAgIDiAgDiBgIFIBIAiBIAgAiCgAjDgAjDgAjDgBIiCgBIAiBgAICiYInhAIFYICm)

Here is the level without any pointy bits:
Not sharp (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=HIBNBIBIQAJAIBJBJBIBICIAIBJBJBIBICIAIBJCIBIBIBJAIBJBICIEIHBIFIBIBIDKHAICMAIBJAICICJBKCIBJDIBKDIAJAJBJALEJBIAIGIDICIAIFIAIFJAIFIAIAIEIBIDJAIAIDIBJAIBJCIBIBICIEICIAIAIAKAIBJAICIEMBNHBKHAJBJDIHAIHAIAKEIDIANBJBKDIAKEIAKEIAKFIAKFIAKDICKYPKAIFYICO)
It is interesting, because now the bottom path is a lot more difficult, since you can still fall off the bottom. The top still provides some challenge, but you can keep retrying and easily master the jumps.

P.S. I think I've found a bug in the code. On the very top level, the collision doesn't work the same as on normal levels. For example, try jumping from the back of the fourth L to its top on this level (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=EQLFLFLFLEMFLFLFLDNFLFLFLFLCOEMFLFLBKALDIALFLFLAKAMCIAMEMEPANBIANDNDNCOBPAPPKAPIBPBPAPPPPPPPPPPPPPMHAPIYPPPPPPPM).

I am wondering: do per-level difficulty curves really work that well if you don't have checkpoints? It forces you to replay over and over again the bits you can do before you can get to the part of the level that's actually killing you.

What if instead you put the difficult parts at the start and then made the level get easier as you get further? (The assumption being that previous levels have taught you what you need to know already.)
My level: Inverse difficulty (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=PKDgCJQIgDgJAICgBLAYIgAgIEIgBIEIgAgIEIgAgIFgBIFgAgIEIgBIEIgBIEIgBgHAgHAgHAgHAgEIgBgEIgBIEIgBgDgIgBgEIgBgEIgBgEICIEIAhIEIAhIBiICIEIAhIEIAhIDJBgIDIDIGhIGhIHAIGhIHAIAhAIBhIDIDIAmAIAgGIAIgBIAIAIAgGIAgAlIAgCgCIBgBICIBIFgDhCgDgICgDgICgDgICgDJCgDJCIDICJFPN). It is quite clearly not a good example of level design.

The E/P in the corner does that.

Unfortunately you can't use right-click in Flash but something similar might be click=delete when ctrl is held down.

I didnt complete #1, I might do it later (i hate sokoban though)

but I made this series of levels for #2

Level One: http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=PJHQIHAIHAIHAIHAIHJHJHAIHAIHAIFLFLHJHAIHAIDNDNHAIHAIHAIHAIEgCIGKGhIHAIHAIEMEMEMHAIHAIHAIHAIHAIGIAIHAIHAIHAIHAIHAIFLFLHAIHAIHAIHAIHAIHAIHAIHAIHAIHAIHYPK

Level Two: http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=PJFQBIHAIHAIHJHJHAIHAIFJAIFJAIHAIHAIDJCIDJCIHAgHAgBhEgHAgHAgCOGIAIHAIHAIHAIEICIHAIHAICIEIHAIAIGIHAIHAIHAIFIBIHAIHAIHAIDIDIDIDIHAIHAIHAICOCOHAIHAIEIAIAIEMBIBIAIAIBIFIBPBIHAIHYIGKG

Level Three: http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=PKDIAIAJBIEJAICQBJAPIAIFJAIALAJAIDIAJAIDIAJAIBKAJFgAPIAIHAIEiAIHAIEIAIAIEMHAIHAIGKGKHAIHAIHAIFLFLHAgHAgHAgEICgHAgHAgHAgHAgHAgDIDgHAgHAgHAgHAgJGgYIGgAIFIgAIGgAIGgAIGIAIGIAIDLAJFIBJEICJDIDLAIEIAIAIHAPK

Level Four: http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=PJHQIHAIGhIHAIGhIHAIHAIEiAIHAIEIAIAIEMHAIHAIHAIHAIHAgHAgHAgHAgHAgFgBIHAIHAIFgAgIHAIHAIHAIHIgFJAgDJCgBJEgAIGgHAgHAgHAgHAgHAgHAgHAIHAgHAgHAgHAgCIEgHAIHAIHAIEICIBIFIGIAIHAICIEIBYIEPK

Final Level: http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=PJDQDIHAIHAIHAIGKHAIGhIHAIGhICiAIAIChBIAIHAIGIAIHAIDIAjDgDgDgBIAgDgDgDgAjDgChDKAJHAIHAIHAIHgIGhIGIgIGhIHgIEgCIEhAJHAIHAIHgIDICgIEgAIgIHgIHgOCIBYIEICIAIAIAICIAMCIDgICIgDICMAICICIAICIAICICIAICICIAIhAICICIAICKAIgICIAIAIgIHgJiJiI


I tried to make each level harder than the previous one, and make all of them have a 'climax' by 2/3 of the level, after that it pretty much goes "downhill" and even if there are tricky parts the level stops being too deadly, except the final one.

Also I put a long run towards the door so you can anticipate the fuck yeah!

Here is my level (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=NCgDQICgEMHAgPAJgIgBJAJFIAJCIDJCOCIDJFIAJgIgBJAPIAJHgPAJHJGKHJHJHJEgIgJEMCgIgBgICKBgJBIDgKAIDgBgAgDgKAIDgICIDgIBgIDgICIDgIgBgDgIgBgDgICIDgIDgCgIhCgBgIBgCiICgDgIDgCJChBgJBgCgAJAgEgJgGJGYJEMEMFJgIFIAgIFIAgIHgIHgIHgIHgIHgIHg).

I wanted to make one before trying everyone else's first. I'll go check out the other creations now. :D

Edit: Wgat, mine is nowhere near difficult as some of you guys have made.  :lol:

You're all crazy.

This (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=OCIDQICIEMGgMDgJhICLBICIBIEgLDICJAIhICJDIAgAJgCgAIAJBIhAIAJFIAJFIAJhKgIAICIhCIEgCIEgAhIEgCIBIgAIgBIBIgEgAYIgCPKHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH) is a reasonable level.

Hahah, the only bits of mine I'd call anywhere near "brutal" were at the end (the last jump, climbing the tower and the last long jump over the spikes are the ones that come to mind). Regardless, cheers for the comments about appearances etc. Normally I'd be able to indicate them with pickups or whatever, but I should have adapted to the occasion.Too easy, imho. Beat it first time, and the difficulty curve was fairly haphazard (though I liked the simmer down at the end), but it did look good. Felt like it would be a early/midgame level in a progressive game.

Tim, your one is nuts.
Have to go off to work now <_< might have time for playing more of these tonight, it's good practice.

In.  Reset only resets player whilst playing not editor whilst editing (otherwise it's too easy to lose your work).


Done.


Added (the thing with a stick on it).



Another fantastic set, a really smooth increase of difficulty throughout.  I would say that the challenges of two and three got a bit repetitive, I am sure there are other non "jump x squares increasingly precisely" challenges of appropriate difficulty that could have been included instead.  Otherwise I'm having trouble picking holes in them.


It's a really good trick, very worthwhile.  When using it you do need to be careful that you aren't going to fatigue the player too much though (if you introduce every single mechanic in this way it can tend to drag).


Quite challenging throughout, but it does have a really compelling difficulty curve to it.  It's not a flat rise, but ducks up and down a bit whilst it generally pushes harder.  Excellent!

It's not something that just applies to you, more of a general note, but I think it's worth mentioning that the low-spiked-ceiling jumps are a bit risky from a level design point of view.  Some people (who are otherwise strong gamers) struggle to tap keys for very short periods of time, and these will likely find such areas *highly* frustrating.  At very least they ought to be used with considerable moderation.


Oh my.


Hmm, yes, does look like the behaviour is odd there.  I'll have a look into it when I get the chance.  In the meantime try not to use the top like that (as a general rule it is bad to have the player off-screen unless you are putting in secrets anyway).


Sure they do, but the average difficulty might have to be easier than it has been so far this exercise.  Checkpoints will help though.


Ow ow ow.  I can't even make it out of the start.


Use the number key shortcuts, then all the tiles types are immediately under your fingers.


Given it was the very first spike in your set it's quite unpleasantly placed.  The difficulty spikes considerably.


Again difficulty spikes a little much at the first spikes.


This element gave the levels a very nice flavour, especially when applied as consistently as you managed throughout.  A really very good effort.


It *is* still pretty brutal though.  The progression seems reasonable.


I'd still say it is hard-ish actually, but enjoyable, what curve were you aiming for difficulty wise?


You could really do with adjusting your view of difficulty a bit then.  Bear in mind that typically when designing levels you are making them for other people rather than yourself, and typically those people will be a lot less good at platform games than the average games designer.  Particularly it was the difficult low-but-long jump after a previously easy warm up that spiked the difficulty high out of nowhere.  Such large increases in difficulty are brutal no matter how difficult the high point is.


There is genuinely no such thing as too easy imho.  Levels don't need to be difficult to be compelling (see kyntt), and this level is a long way from being as easy as it could potentially be.

When the object of discussion is difficulty, and you're designing for a skill based platform game (we're not focussing on aesthetics or mood or anything else, just difficulty, so that's the assumption) I think there is such a thing as too easy.
Knytt isn't skill based, it's based on the fact that it has a delicious feel and that the player wants to explore. N, on the other hand, is skill based, and the levels get bloody devilish towards the end as they should. The userlevels are usually at a fairly high level of challenge as well.

HOWEVER I agree that my difficulty perception has been skewed horribly, and I should adjust it. For example, I liked your example level a lot, even though I found it very easy (I was warned about the last jump, so I adjusted my starting point and cleared it first go, and it was a good feeling), I just think that things like this should be challenging. I just haven't found the right balance of fun and challenge in this game though, no biggie. I might do another one later as a relaxation thing.

Whilst we are ignoring aesthetics for the moment, this shouldn't be taken to mean we should be making our levels harder to compensate for the lost aesthetic interest.  Understanding the distinctions between "really ridiculously easy", and "pretty easy" are just as important as understanding the differences between "very hard" and "extremely hard".  More-so in fact, as players will be seeing the easiest stuff first.

Don't be afraid to make levels which are boring here.  The aim of these exercises isn't to make high quality levels, but to learn things about the level design process that we can use to make higher quality levels afterwards.

True, thanks for being frank. I'll try to get one done in a bit, but I might just sleep. We'll see how it works out, I'm keen to do some level design (I haven't done much for my own games, I usually take the procedural route).

Joe Gribs: Your level's difficulty curve was just shy of perfect. Awesome job man.

Nitro Crate: I liked how your level never repeated any jumps but still had a nice curve to it. I know it wasn't part of the exercise but I dug the aesthetics of it as well.

Jonathon: In hindsight I should have introduced a new element for that third level. With the checkpoints present now I might try a second batch of levels, if time permits.

Why don't you guys make use of checkpoints?

Your worst nightmare. (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=PIHQIHAIGhIHAIHAIGhIHAIHAIEgAhIHAIHAIEhAgIHoIHAIFgKChJGoIHANBhEgFgBPBgHAgHAIHoIHAIHAIHAIFgBgBICgBgAYICgBgBICgBgHAIHAIHAIAgGgBIFgHAgHAgHAgAgGgBIFIHoIHAIDhBgIAgBhBgIBIFIGhIGhIHgIHAICjBICIAIAIAIHAgAng)
The same level with less checkpoints. (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=PIHQIHAIGhIHAIHAIGhIHAIHAIEgAhIHAIHAIEhAgIHAIHAIFgKChJGoIHANBhEgFgBPBgHAgHAIHAIHAIHAIHAIFgBgBICgBgAYICgBgBICgBgHAIHAIHAIAgGgBIFgHAgHAgHAgAgGgBIFIHoIHAIDhBgIAgBhBgIBIFIGhIGhIHgIHAICjBICIAIAIAIHAgAng)

I made another level subverting the normal difficulty curve: this time if you fail a challenge you may fall down to an area filled with checkpoints. The only way to continue from where you were is to treat these checkpoints as spikes and make your way to the nearest spike (for the purposes of this level, the reset button does not exist).

Damn checkpoints! (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=PJGQJEICIDYICIEICIDgICIEICIEgCIBoFIHAIHAIHoIGpIHoIAgBJCIAgBoICIAgAgAICIAgGIAgAgEIAgGIAiAICIHAIAoIBgApIHAIBgCpAIHAIGpICQIDIDoICIFoBIFoAoIFoBIHAIBhDQIHAIBIAIAIBIBIEoIBIEoIBIEoIBIEoIBIBICIHAIDhCIFIBIHAIGpIGpIHAIEICIHAIHgIGIgIHgIHAPK)

Not massively happy with it. Perhaps next I will try making a level which actually follows the theme.

P.S. Inverse difficulty with checkpoints (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=PKDgCJQIgDgJAICgAoLAYIgAgIEIgBIEIgAgIEIgAgIFgBIFgAgIEIgBIEIgAoIEIgBgHAgHAgHAgHAgEIgBgEIgBIEIgBgDgIgBgEIgBgEIgBgEIBoIEIAhIEIAhIBiIBoIEIAhIEIAhIDJBgIDICoIGhIGhIHAIGhIHAIAhAIBhIDIDIAmAIAgGIAIgBIAIoIAgGIAgAlIAgCgCIBgAoICIBIFgDhCgDgICgDgICgDgICgDJCgDJCIDIBoJFPN): now actually feasible, though that first fall is still ridiculously difficult.

Better difficulty curve (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=HCPIAICQIBIAIDIBIAIBKBIAIBIDIAIBIDIAIBIDIAIBNDIDgHAgHAgCgNAoAhGoAhGoAhGoAhJEoAhGoAhGoAgHoIHAIHAIHgHgHBgHBIHAIHAIHgHgHAgHBgHBIHoIHAIGIAIEJBICJDICIChICIEIGhIHAIGhIHAIHAIDqBICLBIDoDIAgJgAIhIAgBIAIDgBIAIDgBIYIDgHHB)

Checkpoints make the horrible level much easier (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=GoIBgMAgCIQAJAIBgIBJAgCIBgIAIBgIBJAgCIBgIAIBgIBgIAgCIBJAIBgIAoIgBIEIgBgDgAgBgCIiBIDiBgFIBlAIBIgAgCIBiBKBhBJCoIBKDIAJgIgBgIALEgIDgBgDgDICgAgBgCgAgBgBoIgAgBgCIAgAgBgBgBgDIgAgFgBgEgIAgAgBIBgCIDoIBgBgAIgBhChEgDIAoIgCiAgIEiAIFhAgIAgIAoIgAgFhAgIDiAgDiBgIFIAoIAiBIAgAiCgAjDgAjDgAjDgBIiCgAoIAiBgAICiYInhAIFYICm)

Messing with Pattern Recognition (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=PJHAIHQIHAIBIBICIHAIHAgDIBIAgHAgHAgBIFgBIFgAoIFgBPBIFIHAMgDIBIBICIHAIHAgDIBIAgCgBgBgHAgBIFhAIFhoIFhAPgAIFIHAMgCgIgAIgAICIHAIHAgBgAIgAIAgCgBgBgHAgBIFhAIFhoIFhAPgAIFIHAMgDIHAIGIgIEIgBgEgCgDgDgDIDgDgDgHAgHAgGgAgGIAgDhYIAg)

I feel bad that I have only just gotten round to playing through these, because they are pretty awesome.

There's a great difficulty progression through the levels. I like how some levels begin with the challenge from the end of the last level. It's kind of gently reminding the player of what they've already achieved, and that the level will get more difficult from there.

If I had any criticisms, it would be that some levels (the third for example) seem a bit to spaced out - you could probably accomplish the same design in half the space.

But yeah, aside from that I like 'em.

An Exploration of Checkpoint Exploitation (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=MDIAoBIDgAIBgDgAIAhDgAIBICoIAIAhDgAIBgDgAIBIgCgAIBgAIBgAIDgBIAIgAhBgIAICIBgIAIAIgAIAoIAICpgAgAIgCogAIAIDogogAIDogAIAIDogAgAIBIAIBIAIAIgAIAhAIAhCoIAIAgIAogAIAIAICgAIAIEIgBIBiDIAYCIgBIGgAIjAgAgAIGgAICIhoIAICogAgBIDogCIEogBIFogAIGgAIAIAICgAIAgEgAIAiCgAIAIEgAICgAIAgAJBgCgAgJoIAgAICJDICgIgAgJEICIEgAgAIEgCgEgCgBoEoIEgCgEgCgDoMAjJAJHQIBIAIAL)

I want to apologize, as I don't really have the time to give crits to everyone over the next week. I feel a bit guilty posting this knowing that I won't be able to give back at all. :(

I like this. It's a nice way to introduce new types of jumps.

That's just not nice.

John needs to fix it so when you fall off the edge you die.

Here's my 5:
1. Small Acorns (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHFPKGQJHJGKFLHJHJEMFLHJDNHJBICLHJHJYIFPKHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHF)
2. Downhill (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHDPKQKCgJBIDgJGgJGgJCICgJCJBgJCICgJGgJGgJGgJDIBgJDJAgJDIBgJGgJGgJGgJDIBgJGgJGgJgFgJgDIAgJhEgJhEKiEJiDYPKHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHD)
3. Spikehill (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=HHHHHHHHHHPKGQJHJGKFLBhBhJCIBhJFLHJEgBJBIBIgAJBIBgBJBgDgJBIChJEiJDjJDIiJBPBlJAmJBlJBPDIiJDjJEIhJEiJFhJCgCgJCIgBKCIhBJCOCIBhJEIhJjAMHJlBJHJmYPKHHHHHHHHHH)
4. Spike Valley (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=QIHBgHAhHBIHAIHAgHAgHAgHAgHAgHoIFgHAhHgCIHAgHAgHAgHAgHCIHgHAgHAgHAgHAIGgBIGgBIGgBgHoIHIHgHgHAgHAIHgHBgHBgHAIGiGIHHAiFoIHAgHAgHAgHAgHAgHAIHAgHhHhHhHAIGIHYIH)
5. The Winding Road (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=HHHHHHHHHHHBiHAIgHhCiDICIgAgFhYIgCIBlCoImBKjIgAIBgCIgAIEoIgAIBIhBIAIBhCgAIBgCgBIBgBgFgCgEgDgAIBIDIAICIBhAIgBgAhBhBgoICIgAIgAICgBIBgBgCgAhAgCgCgBgBgCICgAgCIBoIAICgCIAgDgDgDgDgEgAIQIDgHKoIHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHB)
I tried to create a gradually increasing difficulty curve across them, starting from basic principles and working up.  I don't have the patience for really punishing platformers, so I don't think any of these are particularly brutal.  5 does require a little care though.

0 - First Steps (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=HHCIGQAIHAIHAIHJHJHJHJHgIHgIHgIHJHJHJHJEhBIFIBICgDJCIAMCgDJFIBIEhBIHAIHJGoJHJHJHgIDgAIAgIDgAIAgIHgIHJHJHJHJHgIHgIEJAJEJAJHgIHgIHJHJHJHJHAIHAIHAIHAIHAIHJCYIAIAJHJHAI)
1 - Confidence (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=HHCIGQAIHAIHAIHJHJHJHgIHgIHgIHgIHgIHJHJHgIFIAgIFIAgIHgICgDgICgDgIGIgIGIgIHgIEIBgIEIBgIHgIHJDhBJHAIHoIHAIHAIHJHJDgAgAgIDIAJgIDgAgAgIHJHJHAIHAIHAIHAIHAIHAIHAIHAIDgAgBIHAIDIAIAJCOHAIHYIHAI)
2 - Crime and Punishment (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=HHCIHAIAkBQIDJCIBgBIBJBIBIBJBIBIBJBIBgBJBIDKBlJHJHJHJHAIEJgAIDoJgAIHAIHJHKhIDJCgDJCgDgICICIgICICIgICgDgIEIBgIBgBIBgIBIBgBgIBIBgBgIAoIBgBgIBIBgBgIBgBIBgIEIBgICgDgICICIgICICIgICgDgICgDKhIDJHJHJDgCgIBgAIAgAgIBICIAgIBMAJBMAJBICIAJBgAIAgAJDgALDgBLiIBgAIDgBgAICYIBKFL)

Tried to stay away from anything I considered "hard" until the end, and just went for "fun", simple levels. I think I got the curve fairly good.
I did like that checkpoints could be used for an incentive, but didn't really pursue that much.

first.. thanks for the feedback on the Sokoban levels.. I was away on the last few days and couldn't do more, so.. moving on.

Level 1 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=HAgEMHQIHAIHAIHAIHAIHAgHAIHAIHAIHAgHAgHAgHAIHAIHAIHAIHAIHJHAIHAIGKGKGKGKGKGKEMHAIAOAIGIAIHAIGIgIHAIDLAIGIAIGIAIGIAIHAIGIgIGIAIHAICLgAIGgAIHAIGIgIGIAIGIAIEhIAIGIAIGIAIFYIAIHHD)

Level 2 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=HAgEMEQLGKGKGKHAgHAgFIBgHAgGIAgHAgHAgFIBgHAgHAgDIDgHAgHAgHIgHAgHAgGIAgGIAgGIAgGIAgGIAgGIAgHAgHAgHAgFIBgFgBgFIAhHAgHAgGIAgHAgEICgHAgCIDhBhEgBJEgHAgCIEgDgDgDgDgEICgEICgEICgEICgEICgDYICgHHD)

Level 3 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=AQIEYIBIAIkBIFIBIBICIBICiIBIDKBIEgIBgEgIBgDIgIBgEgIBIEgIBgEgIBIEgIBgDIgIBIEgIBIEgIBIEgIAgIDKBIDgJgAIFIBgFIAgIDhIBIEgIBIFIBIFIBJDgIBgJDICgJCIDgJBIEgJAIFgBIFgBgGIAIFgBgFgBgFgBIFJAIEKAIEICIEIBgIEgCIEICIEICIEgCIFgBIFIBIGgAIHAIFIBIEMHHHHHHB)

Level 4 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=HAPLgCIBQJHJHJBIBIBJAKAIBIBgFIBgFIBgDIAJAPIAhBIAhIGhICIChNCgIHJDICJhFJHJHJBIBIBJBIDKBIEJHJAmJAPHgIHgIHgIHgIHgIHgIHgIHgIHJHgIHJHgIHgIHgIGIgIHgIHgIHgIHgIFIAgIEhAgIHgIHgIGIgIhAIDgIHgIAYIBIBgIgPIHB)

edit: @GameRoom, because I'm stupid and forgot to revert it to the original position after changing it to make it easier to test. It's fixed now.

Why does level 4 start out in the middle?

My turn! (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=HCKCgAgBYIAIgAgDIhGgAiGIAiFhAgGIAgEkGIHBIHBgDgDgEICICgAhAoIDgBgAIEIBJGJgHJCoIgCIgHgAgGIBgCgBIALAgBgICIBoIAIBoIgCJCIBgAIBIjBIHgEIgAgHgHHCIAgHgAgHIHAIHAIHBgHAgFIhHAoIHIHhHAIHAIHAgGgAgGIgHIAgGhAgGIEgDhCIAgCIEIBQIGK) It's just a simple run-to-the-left kinda thing. One thing I tried to accomplish is to place nearly all of the checkpoints kinda out of the way, though I'm not sure why I did...Also, I like aesthetics, so I tried to make some neato (if somewhat vestigal) spike patterns.


Very nice! I really like how some of the jumps look hard, but actually aren't once you do them (like in the middle of your first level).

I really liked the checkpoint I had to go out of my way to get to.

First I made four levels, thinking the "checkpoint" icon was a coin. Erm, oops! Here are coined and uncoined versions, use your imagination:

Level1 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=EMEMDQMEMEMHAIHAIHAIHAIEoIBIEoIBIHAIHAIHAIHAIHJGKHJHAIHAIHAIHAIEoIBIEoIBIHAIHAIHAIHAIHJGKFLGKHJHAIHAIHAIEoIBIEoIBIHAIHAIHAIHAIFIBIEJBIDNCODNEJBIFIBIHAICICIAIBYICIAICICIAIHAIHAI)

Level 1 No Coins (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=EMEMDQMEMEMHAIHAIHAIHAIFIBIFIBIHAIHAIHAIHAIHJGKHJHAIHAIHAIHAIFIBIFIBIHAIHAIHAIHAIHJGKFLGKHJHAIHAIHAIFIBIFIBIHAIHAIHAIHAIFIBIEJBIDNCODNEJBIFIBIHAICICIAIBYICIAICICIAIHAIHAI)

Level 2 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=HDPBPAQPBPBIHHENDNDNDNDIHHELFLFLFLHHHHDLFLFLFLHHHHDIHAIHHHDIHAIHHHDIHAIHHHHHBJHAIHAIHAIHHHEJHJHJHJGYJHJHJHJHJ) (I didn't put coins on this in the first place)

Level3 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=HAIHAIHQIHAIHAIGIGoJHAIHHHHHHAIGoJHAIHCIHAIHAIHAIHAIDoKAIGIAIHAIHAIHAIEICIDJCIEICIHAIHAIHAIHAIEMEMEMHHHHHHGMEMEMFIBIHAIHAIHAIHAIDIDICKCIBoKCIBoKCIBoKBYIBoKCICO)

Level 3 No Coins (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=HAIHAIHQIHAIHAIGIGoJHAIHHHHHHAIGoJHAIHCIHAIHAIHAIHAIDoKAIGIAIHAIHAIHAIEICIDJCIEICIHAIHAIHAIHAIEMEMEMHHHHHHGMEMEMFIBIHAIHAIHAIHAIDIDICKCIBoKCIBoKCIBoKBYIBoKCICO)

Level 4 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=EoIHAJHAJHAJCIDgIBQIDgICIDgMDJGJGJHIHAIHAJHgIHgIHgIHJHJHgIHgIHgIHJHJHgIHgIHgIHJHLHgIHgIDIBKCJCJBJEIEoHoHoHHHHGJBJCJDJBICoBIEoHoHHHCIHAJHAJHAJEgCJDgCYIDgBoJFoJFoJE)

Level 4 No Coins (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=FIHAJHAJHAJCIDgIBQIDgICIDgMDJGJGJHIHAIHAJHgIHgIHgIHJHJHgIHgIHgIHJHJHgIHgIHgIHJHLHgIHgIDIBKCJCJBJEIHHHHHHHGJBJCJDJBIFIHHHHHBIHAJHAJHAJEgCJDgCYIDgCJGJGJE)

Very nice. One thing I find with many of the levels people are making here is there is not much sense of space or rhythm; they are just one careful (albeit interesting!) obstacle
after another. That's definitely one type of design, but not what appeals to me.

This level is different, as it has a visible structure: beginning, middle and end, with repetition in the middle section. As well, I died many more times on this level than other levels filled with trickier jumps, because I felt more inclined to "run through" it.

Food for thought!

Hello, this is my first post!

I have created five levels that increase in difficulty from easy to really really hard :)

I actually started with four levels but realized that the transition from 3 to 4 was too much, and created a level between them. I found this the most challenging, creating a level that is harder than one but easier than another.

Overall I am happy with how these levels ended up, check them out:

level 1 - Cupcake Land (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=PPLHJHJDICJDIBKDICJCQICJDICOCJHJHJFLHJHJHJFPIoLFLFJAgHAgFJAgFLFLHJHJHJFLFJAgDKBgDIDgBKCIgBIEJBIEJEIBJEIAoPBJBIEJAYIEIgBIFgBIDJgBIDKBIDKGJgHAgCIBJAgCIBLCIBLFJAgHAgEJBgEMEJBgHAgHAg)
level 2 - The Orchard (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=PMBMAYIBICgHAgHAgDgBIAgDIBKDIBIAgHAgHAgFgBgHAgHAgGIAgFoIAgGIAgHAgCIEgBJhCgCIEgGIAgEIAKgMAIAgEICgEICgBIEIgBIEJBIEIgEgCgHAgHAgAIGgoPIAPIEICICICIAPIAIHAICOCOAIAIEgDIDgEICgHAgFIBgCIBLFLFIBgHAgHAgHAgCIEgCOBQOCIEg)
level 3 - Bingo Town (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=PgIgBICIAIEICIBMBIBIBQIAgIFIBIFIBIDhIBIFIAgIFIBIBIFIAoPBImHALkAIjEICIEICIDgIGhIGKDIBKAIBIBhIHgIHAIHAIAIBIDIAIBIBhIGhIGKGKEJiEJiAoKkHAgBMBIEhBIEiAIAgBgBgAIgBgCgAIHAICgDhCYIDIHAIGiHAgEgCIEgCIDJgAJEgBJEgAKGKFLHAgCgBgAhBgBgCg)
level 4 - The Wastelands (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=jNgHIgHIgDIAIQIgHIgHIgBgNHAgHAgBjCIBIAJgBgDiAoIFgBIHAgHAgEIgAJAICIgAJAIGgHAgEgAIAgEgAIAgFgBgHAgHAgHAgHAgGoIgHAgCIBgBgCgBIBgHAgHAgDlAIgAIDIBhEIGgAIiJioIgAYIEIgFhIGhIHAIGhIDIgAKGKEhKGKHAgHAgHAgEICgAoICIBgBgDgJCIAJBgHAgDgDg)
level 5 - Chuck Norris (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=nhHhAiEgDhAYIgDhCgBIFgBhEgHAgHAgCoIDgHAgGIAIEhBgFgBgFIAIGIAIBkIAIgHAgAngCJgAIAgBoJgAIAgHAgHAgHAgHAgEICgEIgAIgEIgAIgHAgHAgHAIEhBIBiAIhIGoJiAIhBIHAIHAgHAgDgIiIHAgGgAgGIAgGgAgHAgDoICIAIgBgCgAIgAiAhEgCgEICICjBgCIBgBgCgBgBImBgQHIngA)

There are a few spikes in difficulty progression, especially for newer players, but I feel its pretty close to what I wanted. This was a great exercise!

When I think about them as coins, I get out of my path and try to get them all and change the way I play each level. Shows you how important "coins" can be in platform games.

I tried to make mine as tight as possible, and cram the whole curve into one level.

 - Level Only (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=LYIFQIBIFIBgFgBgFgBgFIBIgEIDgICIgDIBgIgBIAICIAhBICIEICIChIAhIAgCICIChIBoIEICIBhAICIAhBICiCgCgCIEgCgEgBgFgBgFIBIgEIDgDIDJBgICgAIAhIEICIDgIBoIEICIDoICIEICIDIDgCgEgBhEgCgAgCgDIgCgEgCgEgCIEgBgIEgAhIEgBgIEICIEIBoIEICIDoIBgIBhAICIAgCIgBIChICIEIAhIAhBICIDgICIEICgEIFgAoIEgL)


I liked how the second level really felt like a natural progression of the first one.  When you put them side by side, you can see how the second adds consequences to failure and tests exactly what you learned in the first.

The third one was a really jarring change though.

Thank you!
Yeah, very true :/ Thanks for the feedback, something to try and recapture I suppose :P

Sorry I've been a bit absent for the last few days, busy busy bee.


Probably because I hadn't implemented them yet :)


Well, it's certainly hard, but there doesn't seem to be a great deal of pacing here, in fact if anything it gets slowly easier as it goes along.


An interesting experiment, but yes, it didn't really work out especially well.  I am finding these experiments quite interesting from a "why is conventional pacing conventional pacing" point of view though.


Whilst it's sort of clever I really don't like the checkpoint abuse to make the first jump possible.  To me that sort of thing comes under the category of "just because you can doesn't mean you should".  Subverting player expectations rarely leads to good quality level design.


They do.. It's okay-ish if still a little frustrating now.. It's also revealed that the top route is the easier by some margin, and that the pacing within both paths is possibly a bit flat, the difficulty doesn't change much within.


Nice level, pretty well paced.  The repetitive jumps didn't matter pacing wise, because the stakes rise as you get higher.


The perma-death traps and false paths aren't really player friendly.  It's certainly exploitation.  If you use such tricks in a game your players will hate you (and not in a VVVVVV I hate you but I love you style).


I'm doing this workshop stuff in whatever time I can squeeze between my day job, my home projects and my social life.  Your tone isn't especially helpfull.

Speaking of which, I'm out of time for now.. Will continue feedback-ing when I get home later..

Two Paths, an easy one with no checkpoints and a hard one with plenty (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=HBPJFYIAgEICgDIgCgDIgBIgDIgCgDIDgDIBIAgCgIDgCgIDgCgIDgCgIAoIAgBKAhAgCJBIAgDIDgDIBIAgDIDgDIDgDIBIAgDIgAIAgBhIDgBhIAIBgBhIDgBKCIgBKDgDIDgDIAoIAgDIBIAgDIDgCgEgCgBgBgCgCIAgBgJBgAgCJBoIgBgJDgCJChDIAjDIBIAgDIDgDIDgDICIhBgIgBIhBgIgBIhCIgBIhAgAIgChAgAIgChCIgBIhBJDgCIHCoIGIHAIHQIHAIE)

I like this - I tried to do something similar but it didn't quite work out as well.

Heheh.

I went and retooled my original six stages and added an additional three. I originally didn't want to make any more stages because the lack of checkpoints would have made them infuriating, but that isn't a concern now. I'm glad you guys dug them, but I agree with you guys in that it got repetitive in some bits. Levels two and three got the most drastically altered.


I kept Psysal's post in mind as well, I tried to make my levels more organic -- if you had all nine stages lined up in succession they'd align perfectly. I just don't know if pacing was sacrificed though. Is the level progression still strong, or did I fix something that isn't broken?

level one:
http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=PNBQNCNELFLFLDNFLFMDgNDOCNDMChLHJHJGLENFMELFKDMHJHJGKFMENFgLEgKFgJDMHJHJHKGgKFgLDPIAPIAPIAPBNDMELFKFLEMDNEMFMFMENDPBPIAPIYJ

level two:
http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=POBQNDMFgJGgJGgKFgLEgMDPBNAIBJHJGKCOBKALHJHJDICJDICJHJHJDICJHJHJHJDICJHJDICJHJHJHJCOHJHJHJFLGgJGgJDIBgJGgJGgJDIBgJGgJGgJGgJDIBgJGgJDIBgJGgJGgJGgJGgJEMDYPN

level three:
http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=PAJAKAJAIHAIHQIAJAJAKAPIDNDNDNHAgHAgIEMEMHgIHgIHgICOHgIHgIGKjCKHgIHgIEIBgICOBoOHgIHgIHgIHgIEMHgIHgIhBNgGgIgGgIgGgIhFgIiCPIAPIAPIAOCOAPIAICgLAICgLEgNAPIAPIAPIAgPAPIAPIAPIYK

level four:
http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=NAOBQOELFLFJHIgHlBjHgIHJHJGKFKgHkBkHgIHJHIgHgIGKFLEMHhHiBmHgIEgBgIHJDgCgIHgIHgIGKHgIoIgCIAgIHgIAIgBIBgIBIEgIHgIHgIDICgIgGgIgGgIgGgICIDgIHgIHgIjCKGKEMEMCOCOBPBPAYO

level five:
http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=IBPAQPHgIHgIjBLFLHgIHgIHgIHgIHgIFLFLHgIHgIHgIHgIHgIFLHgIHgIHgIEoLHhHlAkHgIHgIGKFKgHkAlHgIGKGKHgIHgIHgICIDgIFLFLEMBPAPIAPIAPIGPIAPIAPIAOCOAPIAPIAPIYL
level six:
http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=MAPIQPBPEgLEgLBPIAPIAPIAPEgLEgLEgLEgLCPBNCNCNCOBPBPHgIHgIiBIBgIhFgIhFgIhBgKgJCgKgJCIjJCIBoKGgIkCgIkCgJFLFJgHlAkHgJFLCgBLCgCgJBgDgJAgCMDLgHjAmHgJFLEMDNCOBPBPBPBPAYN

level seven:
http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=ICOBQOCgDJFgAJjBgAJEIgAJCIBgAJoIAgAIgAJCIBgAJCgAIBJBhCKAPIHgNALBJDgIHgIAJANoPIAhCiIHgIlBIHAIHAIHAIHJGKFLEMDNCOBPAoPBPCODNEMFLGKHJHAIHAgDiAhDgDIDgDgDhAiHAgGKGKGKGKGKGKGKGKFYK

level eight:
http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=GKGKFQKHAgHAgHAgHAgHAgHAIEhAgIEhBIDoICgEiAIEICgEiAIGIAIHAIHAIHAIHAgHAgHAgHAgHAgHAIBIAIAIAJBIgIgIgJHAgHAgHAgHoIHAgHAgHAgHAIHAIHAgHAgHAgHAgHAgHAIHAIHALELFKFLEMEMENDOCOCOCOBYL

level nine (victory screen):
http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=KELDQAKFLEMEMENDOCOqOqOqOqPqPrOqOqOqOqNqOpOpPpPpPpPrOrOqPpOqOpOpPpPpPpPpPpOFKCJBJCKBICLBIBYLBICLBJCKBKCJBLFPPPPPPPPPPPPL

EDIT: minor tweaks to four & five

I really like these levels; the early levels being simplistic yet not simple, and the difficulty ramp is fairly smooth to boot. One minor gripe is that, in the beginning of levels two and three you place an emphasis on mastering the "jump with the roof right over your head", and then shelve it until the endgame. Also, while I like how you put some checkpoints out of the way, I felt like level four's checkpoint was just too much hassle for what it was worth. Thankfully, you nailed it with level eight's checkpoint: out of the way, yet still easy to get to and easy to continue from. Also, I thought the pyramid at the beginning of level seven was genius. Overall, very minor gripes about otherwise-excellent level design. Nice job!

@TheDustin I liked these levels as well, I was particularly inspired by the skinny section at the end of level 3. Level 8 was a good challenge, I appreciated that it had the trickiest section near the start which makes the end sort of satisfying (like it's own mini-victory-lap.) I also enjoyed the "arches" on level 1. Nice set!

After playing these I wanted to make a level with "negative space", starting with a "solid" screen and carving out the path for the player:

Negative Space (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=PKQPIAPIAoFJANAJAMBJALBKAKBIAJAJBIBJAIBICJAIAIBIAJAICJAJANAJFIAJCIBIAJAICJAJANAJAICJAJAIAIAJAJCICoPIAPgAOgBNgBNgBIALgBIBKgBICKBIDKAIEKCICOCOBgOBgOCOCOBgOBgOCOCOBgOBgOCOCOBPBPAPIAPIAPIAPIAPIAPIAPIAPIBYPK)

Another level. (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=PJHAIHQIHAIHgIFgBIGgAIHAIHAIHAIHAIGhIGhIHgIHAIHgIGhIGhIHAIHoIHAIHAIFgAgIFgAgIFgBIFgAgIFgAgIHAIGhIHAIFgBIEoIgAIHAIHJHAgHAgBgBgCgAgAIAIgBgEgCgHAgHAgHAgHAgHAgCIEgAhIEgCIEgAhIEgCIEhAgIEhAgIEgCIEgBYIEgCIEgLEg)

Feeling a bit guilty I haven't commented on other people's levels, here's my thoughts:

TheDustin (updated versions): I know this isn't meant to be about aesthetics, but the caverns in level 1 (and the way they follow on to level 2) are a really neat touch.  Your levels felt more like a coherent world, with little patterns carried across multiple levels.

edh: I like the idea of easing off the difficulty towards the end of the level; it makes it somehow more worthwhile when you finally reach the safe part.  My favourite bit is the first spikes on level 1; there's no reason you have to go anywhere near them, but they will catch you out if you're not paying attention.

Nitro Crate: I like the diagonal corridor of spikes.  It looks more brutal than it actually is; it took me a while to realise trying to jump it was not the way to go.

GameRoom (your worst nightmare):  This thing is brutal.  Landing on the edge of a block without touching the spike on top of it is completely beyond me.

Lord Tim: I like the checkpoint staircase.  Even with checkpoints, your oh god it hurts level is too much for me.

JoGribbs: I like this approach.  I remember a music teacher telling me there's nothing wrong with repetition, if it's done right.  I think my favourite levels here are the ones that use repetition in slightly unexpected ways.

Captain_404: I like the idea of using checkpoints to force the player to take a less than optimum path, but this is brutal.

Tuba (1st four): There's a decent increase in difficulty between 1 and 2, but I found 3 much harder than 4 (loved the long jump coming out of the enclosed section).  Partly because it's so long; it could definitely use a checkpoint or two.

F687/s: I liked the out-of-the-way checkpoints.

PsySal: I really like the repeating patterns in your levels.  It gives them a really nice coherence.

ScsiOverdrive: I liked how in level 3 you loop round and go past areas you've already been.  The increase in difficulty seemed to be fairly steady, though 4 and 5 were a bit too much for me.


Anyway, I made another three, aiming for a similar feel to PsySal's levels, though I think they're too repetitious and focused on the aesthetics:
Chompers (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=HHHHHHHDJHKGPMEgKFgIHgIHgIHgJBIDgJBJCgJAQPBJCgJBIDgIHgIHgIAIBICgKBJBgKBPBJBgIAIBICgIHgIHgIHgIHgIAIBICgKBJBgKAgPBJBgIAIBICgIHgIHgICIBIAgIBJBJgMAYLBJBJgICIBIAgIHgIFJgIEPOELGJHHHHHHHHH)
Sunglasses (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=PPJQPIAPIAPIAPIAPIAMBJALDIAKGJCJBKAPIAPIAIFJEJAPIAPBOBKAJDKGKDIBKGKBIDKFLAIDLAJCLAKBLAPIAPIAIEYJAIAOAIAOAICIAKAJDKBJDJBgJCJBgKBJBMAJANAJANAJAMBJBKBKBJBLBgIAMAhIBLBKBKBLBJANAJANAJANAJBLBKBJBMDOBPN)
Stripes (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHEMDKAQICKBJBKBKAKBJALBJBKBJCJBJBIAJEIgAJALgBJAKCKAJCLAICMAgBKAJCKBKAKCKAJBIAKAIBJAKCJgAJCJgBJBJgBKAJgBIgLgBIhKgBICJgBIBIAJBIBIBJAIBIBKCIBJAIgAIBJBIhIYJCNHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHD)

Had a chance to make a level. Haven't been playing others much yet since I didn't want to be influenced too badly before I tried it myself. I did enjoy your aesthetic and easy levels though NiallM. It was just good to sort of explore them without worrying to much about dieing.

The Blind Return (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=HEoIHCIFIHHHDICIHHHHBIEIHHHHAIDIHHHHCIDIHHHHGICIHHHEIFIHHHHIDIHHHHHHGIDIHCIHHHGIHHHCIAIHHHHHHHHEIBIFIBIFIAQIEYLE)

No, despite appearances I haven't forgotten this.  I've been feeling really guilty for not finding the time to wrap this excercise up, sorry!

Anyway, back to the feedback..


I really like this set, you've really understood the difficulty of the challenges you've used.  It's a real steady journey :)


Yep, the curve on this is pretty great, and the space is quite liberating after some of the other sets we've seen.  There was one little difficulty blip in Confidence (the spiked tower 2/3rds through), that was markedly harder than the rest of this level.

I'm not sure whether checkpoints as insentives is a great idea, whilst it certainly wasn't a problem in this set by saying "do this challenge to save" you might risk pissing a player off.  Used well though, perhaps it it's a worthwhile tool?


.. and another great set.  Definitely a nice and smooth curve, and you also managed to work in a good variety of challenges throughout.  I noticed and particularly liked that the difficulty seemed to tone-down for a bit at the start of each new level.



You've got a good mix of challenges here, but the difficulty curve feels very flat.  As a standalone level as part of longer game this wouldn't be a problem, but it doesn't really demonstrate the sort of pacing that I wanted this excercise to be about.


I played the no coins versions..

I was all but ready to say something about telling you to ignore the aesthetics, but this set seems very well paced despite it.  An enjoyable quick little romp :)


One obstacle after another is pretty much exactly what I asked for though, so it's no big surprise that's what we've got lots of :)

I definitely want to take this workshop in more spacious, rythmic and aesthetically pleasing directions soon, but I think it's also important to be able to study a single aspect of design (in this case difficulty) at a time.


Welcome!  It's great to have you :)


Really fantastic work, this is a really well paced and very cleverly layed out set of levels.  Whilst there are a few spikes none of them are so large as to be painful, in fact I'd say they're all small enough that they merely add some texture to the ride..  Particularly well noticed on the need of a 4th level, you're definitely right that the gap would have otherwise been too large.


.. and you did a good job with it, the curve is as tight as the level.  My one criticism would be that the initial ramp up was much faster than that throughtout the rest of a level, which made the first 1/4 feel a little wasted.  It's a minor quibble though.


An interesting experiment, for me though the difference in difficulty between the too was a little large.  Even without checkpoints the top route felt substantially easier.

Gah, I'm out of time again, and I'm going to be away for the whole weekend too.  I'll get back to it, and do another excercise etc. sooooon I promise!

I hope that this hasn't fallen by the wayside -- I've picked up a lot from it, and Jonathon's exercises are way awesome.  :beg:

Agreed.

And if you don't have the time for this right now I'm sure there are some of us who would be happy to help out. :) This workshop has already been tremendously helpful to me, not only in receiving critiques of my levels, but in playing and critiquing others' levels as well. I'd hate to see it forgotten after only two exercises.

I know I know! I'm a terrible person.  I've been really listless and useless the past couple of weeks for some reason, please forgive my rubbishness :beg:

I'm literally just about to go and get a cup of tea and start work on the next exercise, so watch this space :)

hugs for you, jonathan!

.. better really really late than never:

Exercise 3: Structural Atmosphere

Okay, so for the last couple of excercises I tried to make a point of concentrating on just the more mechanical aspects of level design.  I believe that understanding the raw mechanics of design is extremely important, but if that was all there was to it it'd be a very dry craft.  So for this exercise I want to flip things around and spend some time working on just the aesthetic side of level design.

When it comes to envoking a setting within a game I think the most common reaction is to think about what art work will be required to invoke a place, a mood, or a feeling.  I'd argue that (in games that do require level design) the level design can and should be at least as evocative.  A level set in a dark cave should probably have a very different structural feel from a level spent jumping on wispy clouds, even if the challenges the player is given are near-identical.

I think it would be worth us spending a bit of time experimenting with ways one can theme a level without increasing the amount of art, or the number of game mechanics.

The Task

Try adding or changing the 'theme' of a level without substantially changing the gameplay.  Pick a clear concise idea, state it, and then try to change the feel of the level in a way that doesn't interfere with the gameplay that is already there.  With the sparseness of tiles available to you this may be a challenge, but that's (hopefully) what will make it a good learning experience too.

As a level to start off with try this out (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=ANHCIHCIHBQIHCIHCIHDIHCIHCIHBIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHHHHCIHCIHBgIHCIHAKGKHAIHCIHCIHHHEIHCIHCIHHEIHCIHCIHHELHLGgIFIDIFIHCIGIHCIDPCIDICIBIHCIHCIFICJCPDIHCIHDJHDIHDIHDIHCIHCIHBIHBIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHHHHHFgIHHHHHGIHCIHCIHCIHCIHHHHHHHHHHEIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHHHHHFIHHHHHEIHCIHCIHBgIHHHEPHHFIHGIHHHEICIGJHBJHBIHHHHHHHHHHHBIHBYIHCICPIA).  It's pretty bland, but that's the point, can you make it interesting whilst keeping it as essentially the same level.

If anyone else wants to create and share some more 'seed' levels that would be fantastic.  Try and leave lots of blank space, and don't worry too much about making things challenging.

As far as theme goes, do whatever you like, though do let us know what you were aiming for so we can critique appropriately.  If you're stumped for ideas try a cavern; factory; jungle;  or cloud fortress.

The tool (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf) for this excercise works in much the same way as in the last two exercises.  The difference here is that it supports multiple horizontal screens (always 10, wrapping round at the edges).  Use the arrow keys or wsad to navigate between screens whilst editing.

As always do yell if anything is confusing or unclear and so on.  Otherwise get stuck in, I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

General Housekeeping

Obviously I've not been doing a fantastic job of getting these out regularly enough.  I think a part of this might be that I've been trying to be really hardline about playing and commenting on every single thing made.  I should maybe be taking it a bit easier on myself.  I'll still try and critique as much as I can, but if it comes to a choice between more feedback or prepping the next exercise I'll try and lean a bit more on the latter.

There seems to be a lot of healthy discussion/critique going on here, so hopefully this won't hurt things too much.  If anyone is left feeling neglected, or lacking in feedback then do prod me here or in a message and I'll get onto it.

If it looks like I'm slipping badly again at some point I'll try opening the floor for someone else to put up an excercise.  On a related note, is there anything people would particularly like us to cover here?  I'm certainly not out of ideas yet, but I'd welcome inspiration too.


*hugs* Thanks.  It's not a big deal really, I seem to have patches like that every now and again. I suspect it just means I need to recharge a bit.  It'd be absolutely fine except I hate letting people down just because I'm being mopey.

I'm getting error #2032 which is apparently because it's looking for the file http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/textLayout_1.0.0.595.swz which doesn't exist.

Apparently it's some silly runtime library?

pressing 'copy' doesn't copy to clipboard for me (firefox 3.6.8/osx)...

I don't have a clue what's going on here.  As far as I can see it's a silly runtime library that I don't even use..  Do the previous excercises work (I can't see that I've changed anything relevant since)?  Do you have flash player 10?


Gah.  Just tested it on my housemates mac in Safari, no joy there either.  I imagine adobe must be doing something paranoid about disallowing modifications to the clipboard from actionscript, but I thought I was dealing with such behaviour already.  You might have more luck if you download the swf locally, but then it'll be harder to import level data into it.  Frustrating!  Will try and work out why it's not playing nicely.

Previous exercises are broken too, I'm on a new laptop so that's what's changed. I do have Flash 10.

Are you using any Adobe text classes? This page says: (http://www.flashandmath.com/flashcs5/textcols/index.html)


I can't see any evidence that it's looking on the Adobe site though, the only requests it's making seem to be to your server.

I didn't think I was using the text formatting stuff, but it appears that I might be.  No idea why you're having problems though, if it's universally failing for all the excercises I'd have definitely expected somebody else to have encountered the problem at some point already...

Well, I've put the relevant file onto my website in case that helps things.

On the mac copy side of things so far I've only been reminded how poorly documented the whole thing is  >:(

Haha, now I'm getting error #2046, which I remember happening intermittently before, and I'm sure other people have mentioned it in this thread too.

If you post the code I'd be happy to take a look, or you could try adding the compiler parameter -static-link-runtime-shared-libraries=true which I think might help.

Hmm, curious and curiouser.

Source is now available at http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.zip (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.zip)

From what I'd read I'd kind of expected -static-link-runtime-shared-libraries to default to true, but it produced a substantially bigger binary (300k rather than 90k), so I guess it must have been including something.  I've uploaded the static version.

Ah, this is really cool. Thanks a lot for these~! ^^

so I really fail at level design >< But...
Sokoban (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBEBBAADAAAAABBABBBBBBABBABADAAFABBAAABAABABBAAAFAACEBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB)
Difficulty (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=MjLQIDLAIBgAKBIBIAJCgIoIoJCgIAIAJCIBIAgICIBIAJCgBgAJCIBIoJCgBIAJBgIBIAgIAJCgAJoICgIAJCKBMDoJGKCgBgKBoICKCgBgKCICKCgBgKFoKBgBMCjKgFLjBLgAoIoIYJgEgAKBjAKAgoKAKCKAJiAKAJhBgCJhBICJgCKAJgAoKBJgCKAJhBICKgBgCJhBgCJgCKAJgBgIgBJgBgIgBJgBoIgBgIgGgIgGgIgCIgBgIgBgIgBJgBgIgBJgCKAJgCgCJhBgBoKhEPK)
Atmosphere 1 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=APKFNFNEQNFNFNGIHCIHCIHBNFNFNFMGIHDIHHHHHGIHAgIHCMEOCPICPICPJBJHHHEIHBKHAJHHDIHCMGLHHBOEPCgNAIDJEIHCJFIDNAIDPCKBJBIBJHAKHBIFJBJCPICPICOFMHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCICJFICLBMALBPJBPJBMAJEIAIBIHCIHCIHCIGgMHBJHBIHCJFOCPICOEOFMHAIHDIHHHHHGIHBIHBLHLHLHLHLHBJHCIHCIGICIGKAIHCJHBJDIDKCPICPJBgPCPIHBNGOEKBIFJGIBIHCIHBJBICNBPJBPJBKAKBIBIHIHCIHCIHCIHCIHJAJHMFYNFPN) starting with your level, trying to make it feel like a mountain-cliff-thingy-ish landscape... >w<

Atmosphere 2 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=HIHCIHHHHHHCIHCIAIHAKBIDIAOCPJAgPJBPJBPJBPJBPEMFOEPFNDMEIgNCPJAPJBPJBPICLBLHMDPIDOGNEPCPCPJEMDPCPICNBIGIEICKAIGgJHLBPJCPJFPKEMBICLFOBPJBPJBPJBIEKHAJHBKHAIHHHHHFIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHHFYIHLGMHLHAQgIHHGIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHHHHHHHHGIHCIHCIHCIHBgIHCIHHHHHFIHAIHHHHFIHCIHCIGICIHHHHHHHHHHHGIHBgIHCIHCIHCIHHEIHCIHHHHHHHHFIHCIC) and then made one from scratch, this time it's supposed to be a space level, complete with alien caverns to explore xD

Statically linked version works: doing the same for the past challenges too would be useful.

Can't immediately spot anything in your code that would make it use the thing: my gut instinct would be maybe the preloader or something else Flex-related that's built-in.

You might try using System.setClipboard instead of Clipboard.generalClipboard.setData to try fixing the Mac clipboard issue.

A forest (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=PPPIEIBIBJCQICIAKCICIAKCICIAJEIDJEIDIFIHBLBJDIBIBKCIEJDIEJDIEKCIEKHAKHAJDIEJDIEJCgIDJEIDIDKCJBLDICPJBPJBIEIHCIHCIHCICIGICJHBJDIEJDIEJDIEIFIHPICLDJAgIFKBIFIHCKEIDKDIDPCLAICIBKHAIHCIFICJCPICPICIFIEJDIGIBIHAIDIGICJFICKEICKDIDKCIEJDIEIEIHCIHCIEIEIEJHBKHAKHAKBgPIHAJHBIHCJDPICPICIEKCIEKCIEKHAJHBJHBIHCIHHGIGNFNFLHLHJHBIHHHHGIFOHBJHBJHBKBPJBOEPCgIFIHCJHAPEJBIGIDIHGKHHHCICMCPICPICIEIHBIHHHHGIHCIHCJBIEIAJAIEYIAJAIFIAPL)

You're supposed to be on the top of the trees, walking on branches and tree trunks.. a lot of 8-bit and 16-bit platform games had levels like that..

This is a pretty decent puzzle.  It can be simplified a little bit without losing a great deal
 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBEBBBBADAAAABBBBABBBBABBBBAADAFABBBAAABABABBBAAAFACEBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB)


There was a blip in the difficulty just after the 6th checkpoint, otherwise it was really smooth.  Good work.


I really liked the 'rope bridges' in the first of these, they give a really good sense of airyness without actually increasing how treacherous it is.

The first half of the second level felt very sparse, which I guess does fit the space theme, but the small scattered platforms don't fit in so well to me.  For the heck of it I tried converting it to a castle interior (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=MCPICMHCIAgIHLHIAgIHIAgIHLHIAgIFIAIHAPJAgPJBPJBPJBKHAKBgIEKAgIFMgIEKAgIHIBgIEKHgKGMEOEOEOEOHCIBgIDPDLBgIGIHBJBgIEOEKBgIGIGMGPICNBIGIEIBLAIEgLGMBPJBPJGMBLEIBICICJBIEOBPJBPJBOHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIAgIHKAgIFIAgJFLAgIEJAgIGJHBJAgIGLHJAgIHIHAYPPPJHBJAgIEQgLHAIAgIGJHBJHBJHBJHBJHBJBgIGIAgIHKgIGIAgIHIBgIGIHBJHBJHBJHBJHAgJBgIFJAgIHKgIGIAgIHIBgIEKGMHCIHCLCPICPICPICNHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIBgIGIAgIHKgIFJAgIFgJBgIFJHBJHBJAgIHIAgIELAgIEOHIAgIHIAgIHIAgIHIHCIGPICL).


Okay, will do.


Ah, that's excellent.  It felt really very foresty :)

I love this thread. You are a workshop genius.

I thought I'd give this one a try.  Theme is caverns.

http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=PNEKAIHJAIQBJCLBLCPICPDPCIANDIBMDJAMCPDPDPDPDPGMHAJELAIEPCgPDPCPJAPJBPICMCICKEIHCIHMGOEOGJFJCJDLBIEOHCJBNBJBPJAgMBKBKDKHAKEJCLCJCPIBLAJBIBKHAJHBJEICKBPJBPJBPJCMBJEICLHAMDJANCJAMDIBNBJAMCKBLCKBLCPICPICOEPGLHCJHALBgLAKHAJHALGMDLBIEKBJEKBKDKBKDLAKFJALHLHAIHCJHAJHCMCKANBOEOEPDPDKAMGJAIGKHBJEKBIHCKHKHKDPDPICPIBgMBIHCKHPENFJCIFJGLHCIHCIBICKBIBPAIBPJBLEIHCIHCIHCIHCJHBKHCIGIAIAJEYKDJCPN

I really liked this one -- I could see how you'd be able to flesh it out with actual tiles. One caveat: on screen #4, the one tile above the last jump on the right side makes it really difficult to complete. At least, it took me a while and it was kind of frustrating.

Here's my try: Escape from Cavern Mountain! (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=POCPICPIBQPICPKAPJBPJBPJBPJBPJBPJBPJBPJBPJBPIHAJHBLBPJBPIBgOEOCPIAPKAPKAPKAKGIHCIGNFOENHBKCPJBPDOHCICPICLDIBgIFJCIFKHALDIDMBIDPCKBICIBJHBJHBJEICKBPAIBPJBPJCPIEPEPIDOENFPCPCPICPICOEOEPDLBJHBJHBJHBKBgPIHAJHBKHAJDJDJDPDPDPDKCJHBJHBJHBJHBKHALHMCICMCJBMCPICPICPEKHHHHHCMHHHHHAOEOEIHBgIHHHEIBLGNHBJHFKHHHCICMCPICPICIEKHHHHHHHHHHBJHAYJHBJGM)

I thought I may as well try.

This one's a womb level (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WombLevel).

Normally huge link. (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=PPFMFQOFOENENEPDOFMHMGNFNFNFMFLGLFOCPJBLBJHBLFIAPKAPDOEOEPIAgLAJEKBIHCKHBJDJEICKDJBLCJCLCIHCKHBLBJDLBJCLCJAMCOCNDKDICJFIHAgJHBJHCLHODPKAPKAPDMGJHBJHBJHCIHAIALFIANDIAOENDIALFIAIHAIAIHCIHCKFIBMCgIBNCIBMGKDIDIFIDIFIDKHALCIDMBIDLCIDKHAIHCIHCIEIEIDJEICKEICJFICIGICIGICIGICIGICIGICIGICIHHHHHHFIHCIHCIHBYPMHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH)

Huh, interesting tesselode, my concept was similar to yours...
Awesome workshop btw  :)

In the belly of the whale (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=HHLGIQCIEIFIEJBJGIBIHIBIHIBIHIBIGIDIFIDIEIFIEIEIEIEIEIEIDIGICIDIBICIDIBIBIEICIAIHAIAIHAIAIHAIAIDIDIAIDIDIAIDIDJHCIHCIDIAIDIEIEIEIEIEIEIHAIHAIHHDIAIHBIHCIHCIHHHCIAIHCIHCgIGIBhJHlBLhJHgIHBIGICJBICICLHJBIHIHHIBIHAJEIDJCIFJCIEIBIBIHCIHCICIEIAICIEIAICIEIAIHCIHCIHCIBIBIEICJFIBIBIFIAIBIDIAIAJAIDIAIBJEIBIGICIGICIGIDIEIEIEIEIEIDIGICIGICIGICIBJCICIBJCICIGIDIEIGICIGICIFIBIBIEIBIBIEIBIBIHHHHHHHHHGYIGgAIYIAgEgAIYIAgEgAIYIAgEgAIYIAgEgAIYIAgEgAIYIAgEgAIYIAgEgAIYIAgEgAKAgEmHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHB)

New level for people to make into...levels. (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=DgIHCIHHHHHHDQIDIEIHBIHCIHCIFIDIFIDIEgIDIFIDIHCIHCIHDIHCIFIDIHCIHCIHBIFIDIFIDIEgIDIFIDIHHHHCIFIDIFIDIHCIHHHFIDIFIDIFICgIFIDIFIBKHAIHHCIHCIHCIEIHCIDIFIDIGIBYIGIHBgIHCIHCIHHEIHCIHHHHHGIHAIHAIHBgIHCIHHHHHHHHHEIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHJAIHAIAIHCIHHBIHgOHBIHHHBIEIEIAMEIAIHAIAIHAIAIHCIHCIHCIHIBIHIBIHCIHCIHCIFIDIEgIDIFIHHHHHHHEIBgIGIHHHHHHCIDgIEIEIHCIHHHHHAIDIHCIHHHHHEIHCIF)

I tried to make the design of the level as interesting as possible, so go crazy giving it a feel.

This was awesome. The whale was really there.

No worries, listless and useless sums up my past month up quite well. Thanks immensely for this workshop, I  :-* you.

Onto level design! brb

Adventure at sea! (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=HKHAIHBMGIHCJHFIFIHCJCIFKHBJHCIHCICOAIFIBIAIFLAIDIAIAJAIHCIDJAKAIHCIEIAJBIDICIBIFIAJAIDJAIAIAICOAIHCIHCIHHFJHAKHAJHAgIHHHBIHEIHHGIHCIHBJHBIAIHKAIGIDIAICLCJCIEKBMHHGIHCPKANDIAJCIDIAIAKEIAIHAIAKGIAIBKDIAKGIAIHJAJAIAIBJBJAIAIAKAYNBJBIHPIAOCIDQAIAKGIHBLHICKDMGIHBLHIDIBICPICIGICLHLHIHAgMGIHCMHCIFIDIFJCIFKBIGJHCIHCICOAICOAICOAICOAIHCICOAIDKDIDKAJAIEIBJAICIAIAKAICICKAICOAIHCIHCIHCIHBJHAKHAJHAgIHHHBKHBJHCIHCNFJCIFIAKFJHBIAJGKBKDIBJFLHIDIBICMBJCICIAIAICLAIBICIC)

Dear Diary:
Day 1, I bought a new ship. Day 2, it was attacked by pirates. So, Day 3, I went home.

And, with only cosmetic modifications:
The Day The Bomb Went Off! (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=HIDKDIDKCJCLCIDIFIDIHHAIHCIHCIHDIHDIHCIHCIDKDIDKDICLDICIGIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIDKDIDKHLCIHBIHCIHBgIHHHBIHEIHHGIBJGIAIBIEIAICIEIBIBIDIDJEIHBIHCIHBIHHHCIHCIHCIHCICKEKAKEICKEIHCIEKCMAKCIEKCIHCIHBYIHCPMEOBIFQAIBIHIBIGICIGIBKEIDIFIHBIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIDKDIDKCIDLCIDIFIDIFIEIDIGICIGICIGIDIHDIHCIHCIDKDIDKDICLDICIGICIGIDIFIEIEIEIEIHCIHCIHCIHCIDKDIDKDICLCIDIEIEIEIFIDIGIHHBIHDIHDIHCIHCIAKGIAKFIALFIAIHIBIHICIFIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIC)

Also: a maze level (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=hHjHjZDYAjZCYBjDYCjDYCjDYCjZCYBjZDYAjHjHjHhPLHAiAPKAIHCIAJBIBIBICIALBIAJBIBIBICIGIAJBLBIFIDIGICIELBIHCPKAIHCIAMAKAICICICIAMAICIGICIBLAICIAIAICICIBLAICIGICOAICOAKAICICIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAICIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAKAIAIAIAIAICIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAICIAIAIAIAMAIAIAIAICIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAKAICIAIEIAKAOAKAOAICICIQIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAICIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAKAIAIAIAIAICIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAIAICIAIAPIAKGIAIBMBIAICIEIAIDIDIAIEICIAIBMBIAIHAIAICKCIAIBICIBIAIBICIBIALCIBIEKCMHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHCIAKGIAKFIALFIAIHIBIHICIFIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIC).

Inside the mine (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=POCPICPIBQPICPICNGMGMGPCPICPICPICPICPICPIHAKHAKCPICNEgJCIFJCIDLCIBNCIBNCJANCJANCJHCMCPICPICNHBKCPICPICLBIHCICNBJBNBJAgIBKAKBIBKAJHBJHCMBIDPIBIDICIBIHCIHCIFICKBPJBPJBMDICLHBKBIGMHLHLHLGMFLAIAJCKBLCKBLCKBLCIEKCIHFKHAKHANBgPHBJHBJHBKCPICPICPICPICOHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIBJCMBJCLCJCLCJCPICPICOHAKHAKHALCMHBJHBJHDKBLCKBPJBPJAgJEKHAKHPEKHAJCIFIHIBIHCIHCIBICIDIBJGIBJDLBIGJHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCJHMFYOEPN).

I really like this one.

Haven't contributed to this before but thought I'd give this one a quick go.

Linky (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=APKFKHAJHAQJHBKHANGMGJHBIHBIHCKDPKFIHCIHCIHHHHCIHCIHBgIHCIHAKGKHAIHCIHCIHHHEIHCIHCIHHEIHCIHCIHHELHLGgIFIDIFIHCIGIHCIDPCIDICIBIHCIHCIFICJCPDIHCIHDJHDIHDIHDIHCIHCIHBIHBIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHHHHHFgIHHHHHGIHCIHCIHCIHCIHHHHHHHHHHEIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHHHHHFIHHHHHEIHCIHCIHBgIHHHEPHHFIHGIHHHEICIGJHBJHBIHHHHHHHHHHHBIHBYIHCICPIA)

?

Alright, I just found this thread, and decided to simultaneously take a stab at both the 1st and 3rd workshop. Hope that's okay.

6 Sokobans:
One  (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBAAAAAAABEBAAAAAAABDBAAAAAAABCBAAAAAAABDBAAAAAAABEBAAAAAAABBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
Two (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBAAAABBADEBAAAABEDCBBAAAABBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
Three (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBAAAABEBBEBAAAABDDAABAAAABCDAEBAAAABBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
Four (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBAAABACBAABAABBDDAAABAABEAEAAABAABBBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
Five (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBAAAABBEDCBAAAABEDDEBAAAABEDEDBAAAAABAAABAAAAABAAABAAAAABBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
Six (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBBAAABEAEAEBAAABADDAABAAABEDCDEBAAABAADDABAAABAAEAABAAABBBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAA)

For #3, Caves and Cliffs (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=PPPPIAQPIBPIBPJBPJAPICPCPKBPICPJAPKAPJBPJCPIBPICPIAPKBPJBPIBPKBPJCPKAPKAPJBPICPDPCPICPBPIDPCPIBPICPICPICPIBgKHAJHBJHBIHHHHHHHHGIHCJHBMGPIDPDPEOGMHAKHHHFIHCKHANFNFNFNGMHLHAKHAKHAKHBJHBJGIBJFNEgNFNDNENFIHHHHHHHHHHHBJHBJHAKHAKHBJHBJHCIHCIHBJHBJHBJHAKGMFgMHAKHHHHHHHHEKGMHAKHBJHBJHBJHBJHBJHCIHCIHCIHAIAIHJYIGMGMGMHL). I tried focusing on making the environment feel natural.

I liked the blockiness of the beggining areas. That definitely cemented the mine feel.

!

Oh wow I had no idea there was more than one screen in this editor. :coffee:

Another go. (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=PNDKCIEJDQEJHBKCIEOFNFJCIFIDIEIEJDKCMAPKAPDJDIEIEIHCIHIBIHMDgIAOBLBJEJCICIBJCIAIANBIAPKAPKAJHBIHHAIHCLHIHHEIHCNFNHHLCIDLCICgJEIDJHDIHCJCIFIAIBIAPAPKALFIBJHBIFICJDPDPDPDJHBIHHHCIHCLHLHIHAIHCJHBNFNFJHBIHHIHHHEgIHHHDIFIHCJCIFNFNFJHBIHHHHHHHHHHEIHCJHBLHLHJHBIHHHHGMBOENFNFOCPKAPKAPIBgIFIHCIHBKHBOEJCIFIHLHCIHCIBICNBJGIBJFKANBMHKHAKFIBLEPKAIBLHKGIAKFYNFPN)

I've gone for an about-to-collapse ruins theme. Basically lots of arches and columns, and I alternate between enclosed and open air to try and keep it interesting. Also features a couple of backtracking bits to make it a little more explorey.


That was nice, when I saw the final screen though I was expecting another screen past the exit. I like the idea of an unnecessary screen at the end that you can look at optionally. That would help the natural feeling as it's not directly A to B then.

OMG A WHALE! Nice :D


Another try..

Clouds (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=HHHFIHBQJHBJHBIHHHHHGIHCJHBJCIFJBJFJBJFICJHCIGIBJGIBJFJCIEgJHBJHIBIFIAIBIFJHBJHBJHBIHHAIHCJHBJHCIHIHCJHBJHCIHIHCJDJCgJDJDIFIHIBIGJHBJGIBJBIDICIAJHBJHCICIBICJBJBJBJBJBJGIBIHHHHHHAIHCJHBJHCIHIHCJCIFJBJFJBJFJBJFIDIHBJHBJFIDIEgJEIEIDJHBJHBIEIHCJHBJHBJHBJHCIHHHEIHBJHBJGIBJFJCIFJHBJHBJHBJHBIHHHHBIHCJHBJHCIHHDIHCJHBJHAgIHHAIHCIBLEICLHBJBIHIBJHCIHHICIGJHBJHBJHCIHHHHHHFJHBJHAKHYJHBJHBJ)

A Temple (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=FIHCNFIHBQIHCNBICIFJDIEJDPDIDKCIEKCIEKCPICIEKCPICIEKHAKCIEJDIEIEIEIDgOEIEICKEIAPKAPKAPKAPKFJCIGICIGMGICIHCIEIEIEOEIEIHCICPICPIBgIFJCIFJHBJFIDIFICPICJCICIBJHBJHBJEICKBPJBPJBPJCPIEIEIFIDIGICJFOEICKDIDKCIEKCPICIEKCPICPICPIHgKHgKHgKBgPIHgKHgKHgKCPICPICPICPDPHAgJHAgJHAgJHAgJHAgKHgKEPDOENFNFNFIBgJHAgJHAgJHAgJEOHAgJHAgJHAgJCIEgJCPICPIBgIEgJHAgJHAPCLCJDgJCIEgJGMHAgJEOBIFgJBPJBPICIFgIHBgIHBgIHBgIHBgIHBgIHBgJHIgKGPCYPN)

Interesting that using checkpoints as spikes turns them into permadeath because it spawns you above the gap. I thought they were spikes initially though didn't really think to use them after realising they're checkpoints.

I linked to this thread via PlayThisThing so I could spread the love.

I tried making some levels last night but nothing worked out. My redesign of the 2nd exercise went for a cavernous pyramid vibe and I think I pulled it off pretty well; unless I can figure something out with the recursive nature of the screens I don't know what to do for this exercise.


I enjoyed this one, it started out open and expansive but morphed into that cavern. Having the door in the starting screen made it seem like I traversed a miniature planet.  :)


This was pretty cool, very evocative of Donkey Kong Country's first handful of levels.

Military Complex (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=IAOAKEKAKEKANAQKAKAJBKANBKANCJAKALAJANCJANBKAKAJBKANBKANBKANBKANBKAKHAKHANBKANBKAKDgKAKEICKCKCKAKCMAKAIAMAKAIgMAKAIAICIAMEIAKCICIGMAKCICIAKGIAKAIEIAKAOEIEICIGKALANALALBgJEJCJDgJALEIGJHBJCJAOAJCJBJAJHBJHBJAJBJBKAPKAPKAMAIAKCPICPHIAJHLHLHIANBPJBPJBIAIANBPJBIELAgNAIDIEJHCIHBJHCIDIEKHAKHHHCIHCNFIHCNFIHHHHHHHHHHEIHCLHIHCIHCLHIHHHHHFIHHHHHKBIFKBPJBPJAgIHHBJHBPIBIEIFKBJEKBJBLHCIHCIBJBNBPJBPJBJBMHHHHHHHDJAIAIAJAPAJAJBLYJAKALAJAKAOgJ)?

Just thought I'd highlight a glitch. (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=AIDIAIAJAIDIAIAJAIAQBIAIAJAIDIAIAJAIDICJAIDNAIHJAIFLAIHJAIEMAIHJAICOAICOAIGKAIGKAJDMAIGKAIGKAIDNAIGKAKEKAIEMAIEMAIEMAIEMAIEMAIDNAIEMAICOAIEMAIEMAIDNAIEMAIEMAICOAIEMAIEMAIEMEOGMCJCLHBJCKAJAJDJAJAKBIAIAJAKAIDJAKFJAPKAJAIHKHAKAJAIDKAIGJAIHJHBPPPJHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCMEPIAPKAMHCIHCIHBYIHCOAPKAMHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHBJHBJHAKHAKHBJHBJHCIHCIHBJHBJHBJHAKGPPIHHDLHHHGgLHHCMAIHCIFLAIHCIEMAIEMAIHCIFLAIHCIFgKAIGKAIHCIEMAIEMAIHCMBKBIDIAKA)

EDIT: This is a better level that uses the glitch six times. (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level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gYIDPCKBLBMALBMBKBIDIBJBLAJAJDJAJALBJAJALBJAJALBJAJALBJAJAMAJAJAIAKAJAJAIAKAJAJAIAKAJAJAIAKAJAJAIAKAJAJAIAKAJAJAIAKAJAJAIAKAJAJAIAKAJAJAIAKAJAJAIAKAJAJAIAKAJAJAIAKAJAJAIAKAJAJAIAKAJAJAI)

EDIT 2: I'm sorry. (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=IAIFLAIFIAJAIFIAJAIFIAJAIFIAJQIFIAJAIFIAJAIFIAJAIFIAJAIFIAJAIlIALdPOHCPMHBgYHBgYHBgYHBgYHBgYHBgYPMHBPMHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCPM)

That second glitchlevel is really cool! (And the third level, which I played first, is really funny.)

Dungeon Escape (from scratch) (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=IAKDLAKDLAJCIALBIAKAMCIEOBIBOBIBLBIEJAJAKAOCIALAKDLAKDLAKCPIDLAKBgPICOHAKHAKHAMDNHAJHBJHBLBPJBPHBJHBLDOHAKHAKCgPIAPJGgLEJALEJAMAMAMAMAMALBMHLHLGMCKAMAMAJHAgJCICJAJGJBIGJALANALANAJCIDIAJCIBIAIALAIFJCIAJAIAJBgIAJAIAJCIAJAIBIAKAJALEIEIAICIAgIBIEIEIAJAMAJAJAMAJAJAJDJAJAJDJDJCQJDJDJBLAPICPICNEYNAJCNAJCNALANALANAJDMAJDMAJDMAJAPAJDMAKCMAJDMAKAIDJCIAIBLAICIAPKAPKANFNFOEKHHHLAPKBNHHHMBPJBPJBIDMBMGIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIDMBPJBIDIAKBJCMAgIDKDIBIAIAIAIEMAIDLAIAIEKCIBNAPKALANAKAOAKDLAKDK)

Definitely had a good caverny feel.  I liked that you preserved the important bits of the gameplay, despite changing the structural form a little bit.


Also suitable caverny.  I enjoyed the gradual transition from full enclosure to open air.


Oh, clever theme :)  Fairly good organic feel considering you only had square blocks to work with.

One general (and very minor) thing to note is there was at least one place where the blocks at the right edge of a section don't match up with the blocks on the left of the next one.  The resulting collision weirdness is something best avoided.


Haha, wow, amazing concept there.  Quite evocative design, wasn't sure what was going on at the end.


Quite industrial feeling, which definitely works well.


Yes of course, the more the merrier :)


A solid set of puzzles, especially the strict but challenging minimalism of the middle ones.


It's effective, but it doesn't bear much resemblance to the original level.


I think you really nailed that theme.  Good job.  The back-track bits worked okay in this context, but I don't think I'd enjoy them in a proper game.


The clouds level is fantastic, a really strong feel to it.  Sadly the temples themeing doesn't feel as strong to me, there's not all that much distinctive about it.


I saw, cheers!  :coffee:


Interesting subversion of the original level.  I found the themeing a bit difficult to unpiece.  I guess it was a fairly difficult one to manage.


Hah, someone will always try and break it!  The construction in the second glitch level is pretty cunning though.

I made a sewer level (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=OEIEIEIEIEIDQIEIEIEIEIFIEIEIEIEIEIDIEIEIEIEIEIEIEIEIEIEJCJHHHEJCJEIEIEIDgIHCIHAKHJHBIHCIFIDIFIHBIDIEIEIEIEIEIDIEIDIEIEIEIEIEIEIDIFICIGICPIBgIFJCIFJHBJFICJFICPICJCICIBJHBJHBIFICJCPDIHCIHDJFIEIFIEIFIEIEIEIEIEIDIEIDIEIEIEIEIEIFIDIFIDIFIDIHHHHHFgNHHHHEIDIFIDIFIDIFIDIFIDIHHHHHHHHHHIDIFIDIFIDIFIDIFIDIFIDIHHHHHFMHHHHDIDIFIDIFIDIFICgMBIHAIAIHBPCIAOCIAIDIDIAIHIBIGICIGICIBICIDIBLHJHBIHHHHHHHHHHBIGICIFYICIGICPIA), where you're walking through pipes. Because every game needs to have a sewer level.

I love this level.  It feels like a level.

The transition from inside to outside the pipe on the screen 2->3 transition was rather jarring.  Otherwise the themeing was surprisingly effect given it's minimalism :)

What would be a cool (and I'm assuming very simple) addition would be a lighter coloured tile that is purely aesthetic so that your platforms etc. can be extended out into the game world visually but not have an effect on the gameplay.

This isn't strictly atmosphere, but I loved the optional bits of exploring after you win.

You can go left at the beginning and get straight to the exit.

i'm at work waiting for traffic to clear up...
entering the construction site via rooftops (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=APKAKhJZJAPKQPKAKZJZJAPKBPJBJZJhJBPJAPKAKZJZJAPKBLYJYJDJYJYJEOHHHEOEOEIZJhEOCPIgJYJhJZAPKAJYJgJYJAPKHHCMGJgIYGMHHAOEJYIYIgEOHGPICPICIYIZIhICNhIHCIFJHBJDPhKiIAhIAKngKngKkIAhKhPJhIYIZIZJhPJhIYIhIZJiPIjIZIhMhNGMGMGMBJhIYIgIYBIiNBIiIYIYIYAYIiNBIiIYIYIYBJhNHHHHDlIHHAgHDgHDhBIBIEiNCiIBIEiNDgAIBIHHHHHHHHHHBLHIYIYFgALEhALEiIYIYEhALDgHBgHBgHBlIHHHHHEIAIAIAIEIAIAIAIEIAIAIAIDgIAIAIAIHDniPIHHkIFngIHHHEIiIGIHIBPJBPJCnIDmIElIFkIGjIBIEiIBIgEKChCYKDhCPN)  
:facepalm:
lost in the desert (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=BPJBPIYBPJBPJBPJBPJBPIYAPKAPKQPKAPKAPJYAPJYAPKAPKBPJBPJBPIYCPICPICPICPIDOYDPDPDPDPDPENYEOEODgOEOFMYFNFNFNFNGMGLYGMFgMEhMDiMEhLYFhLGgLHLHLHLHKYHgKGhKFiKEjKDkJYEjKFiKGhKHgKHBJHAgIYHhJGiJFjJEkJDkJYEjKFiKGhKHgKHAJYHAJYHAKHgKGhKFiKEiKYDjLEiLFhLGgLHKYHLHLHLHLGgLFgLYEhMDiMEhMFgMFMYFNFNFNFNFNFMYEODgOEOEODOYDPDPDPDPDPDOYCPICPICPICPIBPIYBPJBPJBPJBPJ)

That's awesome! :o



LOL didn't know it was cyclic! :P

Floating Rocks (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=AOEKBLBgIgCNiBQKChDIFgHHAJDgELBhDJDhCIEiCKCiCNAgDMBgDKCiCIEgIgHAhHCgDIHCKDgCgNAhCLChALDhPAIhIHBgKHgICIEiHAiEIChFKBgFJHFIgDJEhCLAIAhCIEiAIGiANCgBNCgBKDIiAIFIiHJgHBJAJBIDKANAJgBJBIBIAhHIAhHIiCICJiPIAgAPIAgANCiAKEiBgIEhEIEIFIHCIDgFIDhDICIAhBgIEiCKCiCMBgDNAgDKCiCIEiHAhHCgHGgJAICgHChHBhHAiCIEiCLCgDNAgDKCiCIEiHAhHCgHHGIHCJHBhEICiEJBiEKBgFLAgFJBiEICiHAhHCgHHAJDgHChHBhHAiBIFiBKEgCKEgBgIFgIgHAgKGIgNFJHBICJFgGJBhHBhHAiICJAIAiKGgAKAIEhIHiHAiHAhHCgHHGgHCgIGIBgJEYJhLDJhPJ)
Simple and a little ambiguous. Not sure anyone would guess the theme was floating rocks with clouds in the background (unless I told them), but still turned out good enough to post I think. Gameplay is open and airy as expected.

Streets of Death (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=gNAIAIGIAIAJFIAIAIYEQIAIAJFIAIAIGNGMGIAIAIGMFNEgIAIAIYFNFNFIAIAIYFNHHHFNEgIAIAIYFNFNDKAIAICKAIAIAIYBIAIAIAIAIYBIAIAIAIAICPJHHDLGgIAIYHLHHBNEgIAIAIYFNDIGKAPKAPICIGICIFJHBJFIDIFIDPCJCICIBIAICICIAIGICICIBIDKAPKAPICIHEOFIAIAIYGMHLHIAIYHLGMDhIAIAIGIAIAIGIAIAIYFIAIAIEhIAIAIHMHHHGMEgIAIAIYGMHHHFNFIAIAIGIAIAIYFIAIAIGNHHHHHHHHHHLHIAIYHIAJHIAJHIAJHLHHHHFkLYHHHHHAOEIALYEIALYDgOHHGPIHHEIHGIHHHEICIGPYCPYCIHHHHHHHHHHHAKFgIYIAIGMAgNAIAI)
Another level with open and airy play, but this time you are on top of buildings! I am happier with this one, though there are a couple of confusing areas. One is supposed to be inside a building, the other is... hey look over there! :)

I tried to stay close the original level on both of these, this turned out to be a fun constraint. I may come back and create a claustrophobic version of this level to contrast the above two.

Cool exercise!

I considered adding some stuff like that for this excercise, but ultimately decided to stick to my guns and keep things really simple.  Whilst extra tiles would add expressivity I'm not convinced they would increase the learning value of the excercise.  It's productive to work within strict boundaries.


I really liked the forms you used in this.  The use of checkpoints and exits was perhaps a bit excessive though, I found the level very hard to 'read' in places (in both gameplay and thematic terms).


I don't think it matters so much how guessable the theme is from just playing it in this excercise, in a real game we'd likely have far more options for how to represent things clearly.  The themeing certainly matches your concept very well, it was very Avatar-y.  The use of checkpoints did make some jump faliures a critical event though (forcing you to restart entirely), which isn't so great.


It worked pretty well.  There are certainly bits of the level that don't lend themselves well to building style structures, but you've done a decent job of incorporating them anyway.


That would be cool :)

The two layered-ness was a bit of a challenge, but a bit of a spelunking adventure (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=JBgLCIDJEIHCJHBIHHEQKBKCKHJAIHIBIHIBKAJCJAJBKBLBgKBLCIDKHAJAIHJAIHAIAIHAIAKBKBIAIHAIAJHIAIHJAKAIDLCJCLBgJCJAJBIDIBIHCIHCIHIBKAIDJAICIDKHAIHFIHCKAIDIBKAIDNAICgMBIDLCIBKHAJHHBIHCJHBJDIHCJCIFJCLDJAYKEJBKDgJBMCJALEIANFKEJBJFICLHIHCKHAIGLFIHAIHBgJAMDIBKHHHHFIHCKHAMEIAKGIAJBJDIAIBIFNFNFMDJALFIAIAJHIAIHCIDLCIAgPJGLHHGIEIEIANDIAMEIAOCIAMGNGKGIAJFKBLCKAJGJALFIAJHBIEIDJDgKBLCLHHHHHHEIDJAgMCJFIDIEIHCIHCJGMgJDLBLHIHHHHHAJCKAIGJAJHHHHDIDKAMCLAJ)

Lummy, I've been meaning to make time for this so rather late to the party:

To the lost city, there's no going back. (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=DPFQJAJGIAKHLHAIAIHAKHAKHAKHJAIHAJHBIAIHAKHAKHLHAJHBKHCIHCIHCIHCIHAKHAIAIHLHAKHAKHAKHIAJGMHIAJHALHALHAKHAKHAJAIHMGMGJALELHKHLHAJAIFMHAJHBIHBJGMFIAIAJDPDMAJFMHCJHAKHCIHCIHHHHAIHCJHALHAKHAKHLHAIAIHBJHHHHHHHCIHBJHAIAIHIAJHLHJAIHKHAIAJHLHJAIHIAJHIAIHALHLHIAIHAJAIHLHIAIHAJAIDIiIAIHAIAJHAIAIHIAJCIjKHAIAJHJAIHIAIHALHLHAKHAKAImKHLHLGMHAIAInhJGIAKFNEOEOEIAIAIAIkOEIAIHAJHBIHCIHCJHBIAIDkOEIAIAIAIDYO)

I really liked the use of 'whitespace' to give bulk and form to the walls/floor.

Asteroid factory (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=CPICJANCIBNBIBQNFNAIDNgIEIAIAIAIEMGIAIAIBICNCIBNCJANCJANFIAIHAKHHHHAKHAIAIHgNFIAIAIEPDIAIAIAICPJBIAIAIAIAICPJHHDLHIAIHALHHBNFIAIAIGNHHPDLGgIFIDIFIHCIGIDJEIDPCKBICIBIHCIHCIFICJCPICNAIDNAJDOGKAIHJAJHKHAIAIHAIAJGLGKAIGKAJFMGKAIGKAJFMHHHHHBgIHHHHHGNFIAIAIGNFIAIAIGNHHHHHHHHHHLHIAIHALHLHIAIHALHHHHHCIHHHHHKBPAIBIAIAIALBIAIAIAJAIAgPJHAKHJAMEKHFIHGKHHHCICMCJHBJHBIHHHHHHHHHHHBJCKCYJCIAIDIDPI)

Welcome!

I really like this take on the level.  It has a real clean-built up feel to it, but the detailing within (whilst simple) really conveys a slightly alien space-y aspect.  Great work!

Tech Base (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=PLAIFIDKBKFIAQIFKBKDIFICKDPDPDPIBNCIBIEJAIBIANAIBIALCIBIELBNHHHFNFIHBgIALFIALDKALBMALBMALBIDIFNHHHLHIHCLHDKCNBICIDLCLAIHAIAKBLAIAIAIBLAKAIAgIFIAIBIFIAIHAIAIEIEOEOCKBICIBIHCIHCIFICKBPAIBIHIBIHDPFPIDMBKCKEICIEKCKAKGNBNCIBIHIBIHIBIHIBIELBNHHHJHJAKAgMAJHJHHHLBNCIBIHIBIHIBIELBPHCJHCIHCIHBJHAJHBLDLCIDIFIDIFIDIFIDICLDLHHHHDMBMHHHHDKBOBIBIHIBIFKAgOHHGOHHGIHGKHHHIBJBNBJHBJHBPIHHHHHHHHHLFJCIEYIDIFIDPA)

I had a pretty good cave level but my computer crashed before I could save it, doh! Might try and re-create it later.

Good use of simple forms and symmetry to create a cohesive feel, good work.

On the second to last screen the layout seemed to encourage me to jump off the platform rightwards below the route that should actually be taken, an instant and unfair death.  I guess it's a little present in my original level too, but the draw felt stronger here. (probably because of the enclosing roof).

I'd like to know if you used separate images for each block, or if you know a way to use just one image and display it several times.

I assume you're coming at this from a fairly 'standard' mainline flash perspective?

This is made in flex, rather than flash.  The approach I'm using is (I assume) much like the approach used by FlashPunk and Flixel.

I'm essentially setting up a more conventional graphics context within actionscript.  In the flash graphics context there is only one 'image' total being rendered each frame, but before this is done I can layer up graphics as I want in a fairly freeform way.  I feel like I'm probably describing this rather badly.  It's essentially much like this technique http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/articles/actionscript_blitting.html (http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/articles/actionscript_blitting.html)

Everyone:

Now that LD is over I guess I should be thinking about setting up the next exercise.  I've got a bit of a general question though...

Previously I've avoided doing exercises based directly on games I've made and/or working on, because I'm worried it'd feel a bit too much like I'm just doing this as a shallow self-hype vehicle (only half true :P).

The flip side is that working with real games is beneficial in a slightly different way to the playgrounds we've previously using.  So I would like to work some in, and if I use my own games it means I can tweak them to try and make the process nice and comfortable here.  Otherwise I'll have to open it up a bit more, and we'll lose the interface consistency (but maybe gain something else? *shrug*).

So, any thoughts, strong or otherwise for either direction?  Am I being overly sensitive?  or are my worries legitimate?  I'd love your input, whatever it is.  :beer:

I wouldn't care if it was a self-hype vehicle. If you feel you would teach people best using an exercise based on one of  your games, by all means, run that exercise. I think I speak for everyone when I say that we understand it isn't self-promotion.

As for interface consistency, I don't think it's a necessary thing. Nice, yes, but a unified aesthetic isn't really the point of the workshop I think.

Personally, I think it would be good to break away from tile-based stuff at some point and work with more interesting geometry.



Also, sorry if it seems like I'm just yelling directions from the sidelines without actually participating. I don't have internet of my own currently, otherwise I'd be making levels and giving critique.

If there's any game you'd know the most about, it'd be your own. I don't have any qualms with that.

Over at Glorious Trainwrecks they have a "Knytt of the Month" club, where people make Knytt Stories levels in two hours. http://www.glorioustrainwrecks.com/node/1113
Outside of that level editor (which I don't particularly care for, honestly) I can't think of many other editors that are available to us. Whatever works best for you is fine by me.

Okay, thats quite reasurring guys, thanks.


My main motivation for interface consistency is to keep the entry-barrier nice and low.  I'd hate to have people who would otherwise be keen put off by it becoming a bit of a learn-the-confusing-interface-of-the-week workshop.  Also I'm trying to slowly manipulate people into thinking that in-engine level editing is a really fantastic idea (which it is!)  You do make a very valid point though.


Hmm, you're right.  That would be good.  I do and have done mostly tile based level editing (even when doing 3d stuff, thanks to Cube), but there's certainly a whole world of other stuff out there which are also relevant.  I'm struggling a little to come up with games that might fit though..  I remember Soldat had a slightly-clumsy-but-okay editor that might merit re-investigating.  There's also the old mega-classic, Doom.  What else?


Not at all :)


I struggled with it myself when I tried it.  Glad it's not just me.  It feels powerful, but not easy.  Typically I prefer the opposite.


There are certainly some, although in a lot of cases I'm left thinking "well that's great but x or y will make it awkward", which isn't ideal.  At some point I'll have to run back through the things I've made levels for and evaluate them a bit.

I've got a sketch of an idea for the next excercise, need to do a bit of groundwork and put it up.  I'm going to be on holiday for a week starting this weekend, so I'd better make sure I get it done soon!

N, though it is grid-based, is actually pretty good at creating a large variety of interesting shapes. I'm not sure what you could cover with it that you haven't already covered. Perhaps designing an environment to facilitate AI navigation? The interface may also be a little complex at first...

I can't think of any other currently, but I'm sure they exist.

I'm sure you could at least reach something less square by building a gridless vector/point based editor. And if you don't want to code that, I'd be happy to help.


I didn't think of this, it's worth considering. (conversely, could people also be drawn in by using a game editor they know well?) If you were to stick to creating custom interfaces perhaps you would have enough control for this to be a non-issue.

It seems for most of the (intuitive) editors out there the scope is pretty limited. They typically can only make levels identical to the game they're built around.


Mockingbird (http://playmockingbird.com/) is a Flash game creation kit, can't say much else because I haven't really dabbled in it. Battle for Wesnoth has a Map Editor (and there are a handful of platformer editors) but I don't think that they would fit this workshop. N does have a pretty solid editor.

Back in the day I loved the Timesplitters 3 editor. I made multi-level campaign levels with rudimentary scripting and everything.  :durr:

I guess. I write the code in notepad and "compile" with mxmlc.

I've used blitting before when programming for iOS.

Really like what you did here!

Perseus Disembarks (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=HHHHHHHHHHBJHAQJHBJHBJHAKHBJHBJHBJHBJHAKHAKHBJHBJHAKHAKHAKHBJHBJHBJHBJHAKHBJHBJHLHLHBJHAKHBJHBJHBJHBJHBJHAKHBJHAKHAKHLGMGMHLHAKHAKHAKHAKHAKGMGMHAKHLHAKHAKHLGMFNFNEODPDPEODPEOFNEODPCPICPICPICPIBPJBPJBPJBPJBPJBPJCPIBPJBPJBPJBPJBPJBPJBPJAPKBPJBPJBPJAPKAPKBPJBPJBPJBPJBPJCPICIBNCIAICKAgKFICIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHAgKHBIAIEICIBOZPJZPPPPI)

I was putting off participating in this thread because I can sink hours into this! =) Anyhow JW keep it up, this is such an interesting exercise even though the lessons learned are somewhat intangible.

I liked the opening quite a lot, though I got a bit bored during the hilly bit.

I didn't use the Timesplitters 3 one, but the Timesplitters 2 one was awesome. The ability to tint the colour on each tile really helped atmosphere-wise.

Timesplitters 2 made editing a 3D environment really easy by reducing it down to a set of tiles, so maybe that could work in 2D too? Tiles of different sizes that could contain anything from a single block to slopes and stairs and stuff. It would allow for more complex level designs but keep it fairly simple to use.

Um, is it ok if I just work on the second exercise for right now? I need some practice, feedback, and advice in that area for this one Jumper-esque game I'm designingthe levels of:

Anyway, here's my first level: http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=HQIHAIHAIHAIHJHAIHAIHAIHAIGKHAIHAIHAIFLGKHJHAIHAIHAIHAIHAIHAIGKHAIHAIEKAIHAIHAIHAIHAIEKAIHAIHAIDIDIHAIDIDIHAIHAIBNAIHAIHAIHAIHAIDLAIHAIHAIHAIBIFIBPHAIHAIHAIHYIHAIHAI

Exercise 4: Teaching Mechanics

Okay, so I'm writing this on a bus, and feeling a little bit motion-sick, so this one might be short text wise..  (see how dedicated i am! :P )

One of the most powerful, and yet challenging things level design can be used for is for teaching the player the games mecahnics without resorting to long-winded tutorials.  Done well enough the player can be introduced to all the concepts they need to know, with very minimal interference.

The Task

The thing I was least happy with in my LD18 entry was my comparative faliure to illuminate all the mechanics of the game naturally.  In particular the ability to get boosted by shots (both your own and your enemies), and through that 'jump' higher than you otherwise can.

I think you guys can do a much better job, so I've rigged up a version for you to work with (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/04teaching.swf).  Hopefully it'll all work out okay, but I've been prepping it whilst travelling, so I've got a worrying feeling I'll have screwed something up.  If so, apologies!

I've tried to make the interface etc. work in much the same way as the previous lessons, so it should be fairly familiar.

In-game controls are arrows/wsad/numpad and zx/shift space.

To make sure you don't miss some, the mechanics that need to be introduced are: Walking, Jumping, Shooting, Holding to shoot faster, reflecting bullets, wrapping, boosting using shots.

I'm going to be climbing in Wales sans laptop and internet connection for the whole of next week, so I'm not going to be able to do any feedbacking for a little while.  I'll do what I can when I get back, but until then you'll have to make an extra effort to criticise each others work.

Really looking forward to seeing what you've come up with whilst I was away.

Is the player meant to be able to move in edit mode?

Sidenote: I'm getting that damn error 2046 again and have spent most of the afternoon trying to find a workaround for it. It seems to be Linux only, which is why I'm the only one who's brought it up here. Fortunately I've just discovered that Google Chrome comes with a different version of Flash Player which mysteriously works.

You can move the player in edit mode and the enemy (is that supposed to be that?) doesn't work.

Hmm, not a roaring success then.. :shrug2:

Being able to move the player in edit mode is a feature not a bug, basically it's really tiresome to have to constantly remove/place start positions when you just want to jump in and test a short sequence.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean re: enemies.  They only work if placed on the ground, but otherwise seem fine.

I was waiting for it to get fixed :P

By "enemies", I mean the guys with white hair, can't seem to make them work.
Are all the different tiles just for decoration or they do something?  :concerned:

Well.. I found a way to teach the player about walking, shooting, jumping and reflecting shots. But it's not saving the player's position, you're supposed to start at the bottom:
http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/04teaching.swf?level=PJHHHHHHHHHGKHHHHHHHHHGKHHHHHHHHHGKHHHHHHHHHGKHHHHHHHHHGKHHHHHHHHHGKHHHHHHHHHFKoHHHHHHHHHGJoHHHHHHHHHGpIHHHHHHHHHHgIHHHHHHHHHHAIHHHHHHHHHHAIHHHHHHHHHvoIHHHHHHHHHPJHHHHHHHHH

Being able to move the player in edit mode is more confusing than anything, it's not really any more useful here than it would have been for the previous platforming challenges.

The enemies only show up when you load from a level string: if you just add them from the editor they don't appear in play mode.

Here's my attempt (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/04teaching.swf?level=CJoLHHHHHHHHHCIBIAgIHHHHHHHHHCIAYIBIHHHHHHHHHAIAIBIBIHHHHHHHHHAIDIAJHHHHHHHHHAIGIHHHHHHHHHAIBIBIAIHHHHHHHHH4IA4IA4IAoHHHHHHHHHAIBoBIAoHHHHHHHHHAIFYIHHHHHHHHHAICIBJHHHHHHHHHAICMHHHHHHHHHELQHHHHHHHHHCMRHHHHHHHHHCKTHHHHHHHHH). Not sure it does a great job at teaching anything, more it just has puzzles that use the mechanics one by one.

Ahhhhh, it took me an age to work out why you were both describing enemy problems that I couldn't reproduce.  Turns out I'd implemented the edit button with a bug that the 'e' key method of switching mode (that I generally use when making games myself, and is therefore intuitive) didn't have.

So I've fixed that problem.  Also, whilst I find the edit-mode player movement very helpful myself if it's just confusing people there's no point, so I changed that to.

The build with these things is in the same place.  Hopefully it'll be a bit nicer to do stuff with now.

Too tired for decent critique right now, so I'll save that stuff for tomorrow.  Oh, and in case it isn't obvious you can press up/down to scroll up and down screens.

I was waiting for a fix as well.  :-[ If I have enough energy after work tomorrow I'm totally going to try my hand at this.

 :facepalm: I thought there was only one screen because trying to go up got the player stuck on an invisible ceiling. Didn't even try going down... (my theory for why is a combination of 1) the starting level having a floor and 2) the game mechanics mean you always want to be going up)

On a tangential note:
I think this is within the scope of this thread? I made a one-level platformer recently: Terrible Tiny Traps (http://www.draknek.org/games/tinytraps/final.php). I'd really appreciate any level design criticism that anyone has.

I didn't realize that shots wrapped until I played this, so I guess your level does a good job of teaching mechanics. :handthumbsupR:

I couldn't figure out exactly what the red blocks did, so I just tried to use them to draw attention to things

http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/04teaching.swf?level=QoQAIALHHHHHHHHHDIAIBIHHHHHHHHHCIBIAgIHHHHHHHHHBIFIHHHHHHHHHBIBICIHHHHHHHHHBQBIBJHHHHHHHHHDYICIHHHHHHHHHDYICIHHHHHHHHHAIBYICIHHHHHHHHHBIAYICIHHHHHHHHHBIBICIHHHHHHHHHBIAIBIAIHHHHHHHHHBIAICYIHHHHHHHHHA4IAIAIAoQHHHHHHHHHKAIAISHHHHHHHHH

Made Ten levels.. Tell me what you guys think.


http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBAAAAAAABACBAAAAAABDABAAAAAABAABAAAAABEAABAAAAAABBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBAAABEAAADABAABEAAAAABAAABADABBBAAABAAAACBAAAABBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBAAAAAABEEEBAAAABAAADBAAAABADAABAAAABABDBAAAAABAAAABAAAABAAACBAAAAABBBBAAAAAAAAAAAA
http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBAAAABEEEDABAAABEBBAABAAABAAADABAAABAADABAAAAABBAAABBAAAABADACBAAAABAABBB
http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBAAAAABAEEEBAAAABAABBAAAABBDDBAAAABAAADABAAABAAAACBAAAABBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAA
http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBBBBAAABAAABAEBAABADADAEBAABAADADEBAABCBAAAEBAAABBBBBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AABAAAAABBABCBAABBAAABABABEEAAABABABEEAAABABBBBBDBABAAAAADABABABDBABABABAAAADAABABAAAAAAABAABBBBBBBB
http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAABBBAAAAAABAAABBBBAABCDDBBAABABAADAAAABAABBBBAAABAAAAABABBAAAAABBAABAAAABEEEABAAAAABBBBAA
http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAABBBAAAAAABEEEBAAABBBEEEBAAABAAADAABAABADDADABAABCABBAABAABBBADDABAAAABAAAABAAAABAAABAAAAABBBBAAA
http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAABBBBAAAABBBAABBAAABADCEEBAAABABAEEBAAABABDBBBAAABABAAABAAABAAADABAAABBADAABAAAABAABBBAAAABBBBAAA

@ Nitro Crate i really enjoyed your levels, they were nice and elegant but really made me feel challenged at some points.

@ Baconman the way you set up your levels initially is really cool. I especially enjoyed level 6, your early ones were quite simple but effective.

@ Captain_404 Your levels i found the most challenging and creative. I really like your use of the pre - "homed" boulders. I think those are really key to making a challenging sokoban puzzle.

Well, it does work in a sort of forceful "you can only do this" sort of a way, it isn't exactly gently easing.  I'll admit a large part of this is probably me not giving you good enough tools at the time.


I suspect it would work as long as you're expecting your players to be happy working things out.  As in, set it up as a puzzle game.


They *are* purely decorative, so that's not a bad call.  It was a bit difficult to realise the relevance in such a small level, but it'd make a good strategy on a longer level/full game.


I like the use of the bottom enemy to teach reflection, though I might have put 'mirror's on both sides of him, just to make sure.  The 4 enemies seem a bit overkill, but were certainly demonstrative.  The final jump seemed like a bit of a large logical jump (as it was in my original game).


Don't have time to study in detail right now, but general text-dump first impression..  It felt very difficult, I was drawn over towards the bottom right, and then got to a state that I couldn't progress past (big moving platform, followed by small moving platform and killer 'minefield').  Part of the problem was I found the jump felt very unnatural, but I wonder if the level design wasn't a bit unforgiving too.  I suspect some of the other equally reachable areas were probably easier, but I wasn't drawn to them first.  The relative accessability of areas may therefore be worth considering (make sure they nail the basics before they can get at the advanced stuff).

With such a small space you don't have much scope to let the player mess around and learn the jumping feel etc. but I'd have certainly welcomed a bit more of an intro.


Welcome :D

I'm afraid I'm shooting off on a climbing trip now, so I don't have time to playthrough your set right, will definitely do so when I get back though.

My thoughts:
Level 2 isn't as compact as it could be (which was one of the stated aims for the sokoban challenge).
Level 4 is less challenging than level 3.
Levels 7 and 8 can be done by moving one block at a time which makes for an uninteresting puzzle.
That throws the difficulty curve a bit so it's an unusual shape.

The bottom right was in fact the only part of the level you can get to initially: the rest of the level is locked until you've been there first. But it's not significantly easier than the rest of the level so your points still stand. I've tweaked that area slightly: nothing major but hopefully it will now be a less frustrating experience.

The difficulty of the whole level is in general fairly difficult: I found that with the pixel-resolution positioning there weren't a whole lot of interesting challenges between too easy and too hard, and (as I generally do) I leaned towards being too hard.

i'm kinda sad that this hasn't had much steam since the second exercise. would anybody be down with constructing some spelunky level sets that teach a specific mechanic? the editor is simple, but it comes with the caveat that the designer has to have unlocked the tunnels for an area to be able to create stages with it's set pieces. someone could upload a version that has this included, at least.

this also restricts mac and linux users, so i dunno. just tossing an idea out in hopes to breathe some life back into this.  :shrug2:

Spelunky works under wine, so 32bit linux users could be included. Something like N would probably be more suitable though.. I'm unsure.

I'm still following what I can of this (and many) thread(s) here, but my job has kept my balls to the wall for the past 2-3 months solid! I haven't even had time to futz together my own projects offline, let alone keep up with all of this. I do hope to see it resurge and continue, however! :)

Here's my attempt at teaching mechanics. (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/04teaching.swf?level=JpIxKHHHHHHHHHFJgIHHHHHHHHHEJBIHHHHHHHHHDJBJHHHHHHHHHDICJHHHHHHHHHHAIHHHHHHHHHCYQzIHHHHHHHHHHYIHHHHHHHHHCJCJHHHHHHHHHDIxIoIHHHHHHHHHDIBoJHHHHHHHHHCQICJHHHHHHHHHHJHHHHHHHHH4IBIBYJHHHHHHHHHMxoJHHHHHHHHH)
One screen isn't much to work with, but I did what I could. In order: meeting the enemy (and shooting him), mirrors, wrapping, and getting shot to bounce higher. The last one was a challenge to explain, but having the enemy show you what to do worked well. The red blocks are placed to make it clear what you're supposed to do at this point.
(You know, this one would look nicer if it had horizontal girders.

Great work on this workshop, jonathan.  Looking forward to future exercises.

Composition:  http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=PLBIAYIgJBQIBgAJCIgCJDIgAgJCIDJCIDJCIDJDhBJCICgJCIBgAJCICgJDgCJDgCJCIDJCIBgAJCICgJDgCJCgBhJBIgDJBIAgCJBIBgBJEIAgJiBgBJEgBJEgBJDICJDIBgJDICJBiCJEIBJEIAgJEIBJFgAJFgAJDhBJFgAJFgAJEIBJEIBJEIAgJDgCJDICJCgCgJCgCgJCICgJBgEJBgEJBgCgAJBIDgJBgEJAhDoJGgJBkPL (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=PLBIAYIgJBQIBgAJCIgCJDIgAgJCIDJCIDJCIDJDhBJCICgJCIBgAJCICgJDgCJDgCJCIDJCIBgAJCICgJDgCJCgBhJBIgDJBIAgCJBIBgBJEIAgJiBgBJEgBJEgBJDICJDIBgJDICJBiCJEIBJEIAgJEIBJFgAJFgAJDhBJFgAJFgAJEIBJEIBJEIAgJDgCJDICJCgCgJCgCgJCICgJBgEJBgEJBgCgAJBIDgJBgEJAhDoJGgJBkPL)
Not particularly great...

Atmosphere(Space Station):  http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=ANFJCIFIDIFICQIFIDIFJBJEJDJDIFIDJDJEJBJFIDIFIDIFIDIFIDIEKBOHHHKBOAIDIFICgIEJDIHAKGKHAIHCIHCPJHDLCMCJCICLCMHDKCNAICJEKCNHHPDPCgIAIDIDLCIHBNBJFIDIEPBIDJAJBIDICIBIFIDIFJBJCPDIHCJHCKEKCJFJCJCMCLHDMCLBJCJDJCJEIDIFIDIFIDIFIDIEKBOHHHHDJCgNHHHHDKBOAIDIFIDIFIDIEKBOHHHHHHHHHMBMCIDIFIDIFIDIFIDICMBMHHHHDJDNHHHHDJBPIDIFIDIFJAgPHHGPFIDIEKBJHFKHGIHCJBIGPICPICJHBIHHHHHHHHDNDJEICYIFJCIFNA (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=ANFJCIFIDIFICQIFIDIFJBJEJDJDIFIDJDJEJBJFIDIFIDIFIDIFIDIEKBOHHHKBOAIDIFICgIEJDIHAKGKHAIHCIHCPJHDLCMCJCICLCMHDKCNAICJEKCNHHPDPCgIAIDIDLCIHBNBJFIDIEPBIDJAJBIDICIBIFIDIFJBJCPDIHCJHCKEKCJFJCJCMCLHDMCLBJCJDJCJEIDIFIDIFIDIFIDIEKBOHHHHDJCgNHHHHDKBOAIDIFIDIFIDIEKBOHHHHHHHHHMBMCIDIFIDIFIDIFIDICMBMHHHHDJDNHHHHDJBPIDIFIDIFJAgPHHGPFIDIEKBJHFKHGIHCJBIGPICPICJHBIHHHHHHHHDNDJEICYIFJCIFNA)
I'm fairly happy with this one.

Teaching(Minimalistic Attempt):  http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/04teaching.swf?level=PAIHHHHHHHHHPYIHHHHHHHHHPAIHHHHHHHHHMDIHHHHHHHHHMDIHHHHHHHHHMDIHHHHHHHHHMAgQoIHHHHHHHHHMDIHHHHHHHHHMCYIHHHHHHHHHMDIHHHHHHHHHPYIHHHHHHHHHPAIHHHHHHHHHPAIHHHHHHHHHPAIHHHHHHHHHPAIHHHHHHHHH (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/04teaching.swf?level=PAIHHHHHHHHHPYIHHHHHHHHHPAIHHHHHHHHHMDIHHHHHHHHHMDIHHHHHHHHHMDIHHHHHHHHHMAgQoIHHHHHHHHHMDIHHHHHHHHHMCYIHHHHHHHHHMDIHHHHHHHHHPYIHHHHHHHHHPAIHHHHHHHHHPAIHHHHHHHHHPAIHHHHHHHHHPAIHHHHHHHHH)
Meh, seems like a more fleshed out level would work better.

ok, so I might've gone a bit too far towards challenge and skimped on the atmosphere, but here's my level (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=PLHAYPJDNFMGMHBJHCIHCJHCKHBJAQJAIEIBJALBIBJAJDIBJAJHBJHCIDICIHHHHAIFKBIHCKHBJHCIBNCIEIAJBIDICIAJCIDIEIBLAJAMGMHIBLAJCIDIGIBJAJEIAJBIBNCIBOBIBOBIHEKHBPJBJHBMAIAJBJAIAKAIBMAIAJBJHBPJAKHAPKHHHDPHHHGNHDIHDIGJDICMEPKDKDLHPDPHFLBLBIAIGJHEIAIAIHHHBgIAJBMAIAKAMAIAIHCIAOAIAIAIAMAIAIAIAMAIAIHAIAKCJBIAKHAKHHIAJHHHCPICPIHHHHHHHHHHHHBIBIBIBIHCIHCIBIAIAIAIAgIBIAIAIDIBOAJHDLAOHAPKCOAICMAIAICKAIAIAIAKAIAIAIAIAKHgKHDIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCIHCPPP). I tried to at least pace it decently (for example, there are no save points until the 5th or 6th screen, when stuff starts to get harder). I kinda subvert that, though.

My original concept was to make the player have to die to beat the level, but then I found out that you have to touch the checkpoints for them to activate, which made the idea impossible. I was really bummed out about that. But by the time I figured that out I was a few screens in so I decided to finish anyway. Congrats to anyone who makes it through without getting frustrated.

edit: sorry for the billionth edit, I just wanna elaborate on what I was thinking with this level.

The first screen is one of those "see the end of the level from the beginning" scenarios that I've seen other people do and I really like because at the end of the level it's kind of a reward to be on the other side. The second screen gives you two options for places to go, I'm assuming that most people will move right, which leads to a little jumping puzzle and then, abruptly, to death on the next screen. I thought it would be a good idea to trick the player early on, especially because you tend to expect death to be coming on the next screen when you've just been through a little jumping puzzle. It's a bit mean of a trick early on in a level, but it can be avoided...I mostly wanted to reward the person who decides to go left, since that's a less common choice.

After going left, there's one longish jump on the first screen and then a leap of faith on the second screen. This is the first time that you have to take a leap of faith without knowing what's coming next so it's followed with a little break: two screens of what the player previously saw, this time on top of the level. I chose to just let both of those have no jumping puzzles so the player could either see that they were rewarded for going left, or to finally be on the right track and see their previous failure. Both of those screens also have weird pseudo block art in them that I wish I could have found more space for after that.

On the fifth screen, there's a few descending jumps, and then you have the choice either go right or jump left. If you go right, unless you go left quickly you get stuck and have to fall down a pit and die. If you go left, you discover for the first time that you can jump above the blocks to get to the next screen.

The sixth screen has the first save point, but you have a choice to go to it or try to do some jumps. The jumps let you shortcut another frustrating screen that you have to go through if you get the save point, but there's also a risk of you dying and having to start the level over again instead of from the save point. So here, there are two choices and both of them are acceptable. I like this part a little better than what I did previously, just punishing the player for going one way.

Once again, you need to take a leap of faith to the next screen, and another leap to get to one side of the screen to the other. This begins the last major jumping puzzle. I let you save there because this part is harder. The first side of the screen involves jumping back and forth from one screen to another to get to the top of a structure. You can also do this without having to jump from one block to another, but I thought it would be reasonable to give the option of using the blocks on this first puzzle. Once you're through there, you go to the next screen which is just a column 1-thick wide of blocks with a save point. Here, you don't have any blocks and you have to jump really carefully to get to the top. This part is frustrating, but it's the last jumping puzzle and there's a save right there so there's less punishment for screwing up.

Once you make it through that puzzle, you have to walk above the level once again, this time for a whole screen. The walking takes you back to the first screen and sends you right down a slide to the exit. You can choose to jump over the part with the slide and walk back to the beginning of the level, but there's little point in doing it. I just thought it would be a nice little easter egg to have it be possible.

Anyway, I'm sorry if I went into way too much detail here, I'm just trying to explain my thought processes because I thought it might be interesting to someone. Hopefully it is.

ella guro:That one was a bit hard. But it was a very nice touch to have the ending screen be identical to the beginning screen.
Not very clear on what kind of atmosphere you're trying to create.

Kuppo: Nice work. Loved the "atmosphere" one, found the "teaching" one a bit too minimalistic, but okay.

I was mainly just trying out a bunch of gameplay mechanic ideas. There isn't really an atmosphere to speak of. I think I'm going to do try to do a more atmospheric level next, because I liked Kuppo's space station level a lot.

I'm going to take a shot at these exercises. Seems like fun :)

[Edit: Check a couple posts below for improved versions of these]

Composition (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=PJCQNDIAIGJFKAIGJHIAICJAKHIAIGJDIAIAIAIGJHIAICJAKAIFIAIAIEJAIAIDNFgAgFgAgAgDNDNFgAgFgAgAgFgAgENDJAIAIDIAIAIDoJAIFIAIGJGgIAIGJHIAICiAJHIAIGJHIAIEIgJGgIAICgCJEgBIAIGJAIFIAIAIEJAIAIDNEgAgAIFgAgIgFgAIAgFgIgAgDgJAgAgDJgAgAgCOBYPAPM)

I was trying to go for a sense of flow in this level. What I mean by that is that by the time you master the level, you'll be able to run through it without ever stopping. You can just hold right, and make it to the goal without ever having to slow down for obstacles.

Atmosphere (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=HCIBLCKAJBJAIBKDJBKFJAJGQIAJHIAKFJALDJBJAIDIAIBIFIBKFIDIFIDIHHHHHEKGMFNEOEODPDPDPDPEOEOFNGMHAKCJHALHLHAJHHHEJHLGNEPDPCPICPDOEODPDPDPDPDPDPEOEOEOEOFPDPIDPIBgPIFOGMGMDJAMCPDPEJAKHAJEJHALHLCIEJHHCJCJEJCJHHHCIHHHFIHHBIHHJHBJHGJFJBJFJHHBIHBKHAKHBIDIHCICJHALCIDLHAJBJHALHLDIDJDIHHHHDIEJEIHHHFIEJHBJHHJHBJYIHGJHNEJBLDJBLCPJBPJCPDPENHJDI)

My theme was "Outer Space/Asteroid Belt".

Teaching (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/04teaching.swf?level=JBKpIHHHHHHHHHYIBKAYIHHHHHHHHHwIBKAYIHHHHHHHHHFIBIHHHHHHHHHFIBIHHHHHHHHHBIDIwIHHHHHHHHHBIoEIHHHHHHHHHBKCgIHHHHHHHHHBIoEIHHHHHHHHHBIDIwIHHHHHHHHHFIBIHHHHHHHHHFIBIHHHHHHHHHAICJAYIHHHHHHHHH4IBKAYIHHHHHHHHHJBKpIHHHHHHHHH)

Your goal is to get to the flashing light in the upper-right corner.

Right off the bat, before the player even gets a chance to do anything, they'll be knocked upwards by an enemy bullet, the enemies will kill each other, and a single stray bullet will bounce around off the mirrors below. Essentially, the player learns almost everything they need to know about the game instantaneously as they start. However, the second half of the level then makes the player execute those actions themselves, making sure that they understood everything that was shown to them at the start.

These are all fairly solid. Some hopefully useful feedback:

The problem with holding right constantly is that after respawning at the checkpoint you almost immediately run into a spike. I think moving them apart would improve that feeling you were going for.

I liked the placement of the goal relative to the easiest path through the level. Personally I would probably have put the checkpoint just before the end of that bottom path though.

I don't think this does a great job at teaching the mechanics.

General rule of thumb: anything that happens immediately when a level begins will not be picked up on and will only serve to confuse. By the time the player has worked out who they are controlling, everything has already happened and they're wondering what that moving blue thing down the bottom is.

Then the next two puzzles require the player to have a detailed understanding of how the game mechanics interact with each other and to use that knowledge to execute a multi-step plan.

I already knew the rules of the game and it took me several attempts to make both jumps.

Thanks for the feedback ;D. I made very small modifications to the first two, and completely redid the Teaching exercise.

• Composition (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/composition.swf?level=PJCQNDIAIGJFKAIGJHIAICJAKHIAIGJDIAIAIAIGJHIAICJAKAIFIAIAIEJAIAIDNFgAgFgAgAgDNDNFgAgFgAgAgFgAgDoNDJAIAIDIAIAIEJAIFIAIGJGgIAIGJHIAICiAJHIAIGJHIAIEIgJGgIAICgCJEgBIAIGJAIFIAIAIEJAIAIDNEgAgAIFgAgIgFgAIAgFgIgAgDgJAgAgDJgAgAgCOBYPAPM)
  
• Atmosphere (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=HCIBLCKAJBJAIBKDJBKFJAJGQIAJHIAKFJALDJBJAIDIAIBIFIBKFIDIFIDIHHHHHEKGMFNEOEODPDPDPDPEOEOFNGMHAKCJHALGgLHAJHHHEJHLGNEPDPCPICPDOEODPDPDPDPDPDPEOEOEOEOFPDPIDPICPIFOGMGMDJAMCPDPEJAKHAJEJHALHLCIEJHHCJCJEJCJHHHCIHHHFIHHBIHHJHBJHGJFJBJFJHHBIHBKHAKHBIDIHCICJHALCIDLHAJBJHALHLDIDJDIHHHHDIDgJEIHHHFIEJHBJHHJHBJYIHGJHNEJBLDJBLCPJBPJCPDPENHJDI)
  
• Teaching (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/04teaching.swf?level=DoIAKHHHHHHHHHEIBgIHHHHHHHHHEICIHHHHHHHHHEIBJHHHHHHHHHCIwICIHHHHHHHHHCIAICIHHHHHHHHHCIDJHHHHHHHHHB4ICKHHHHHHHHHCIDJHHHHHHHHHCIAICIHHHHHHHHHCIwICIHHHHHHHHHEICIHHHHHHHHHEIBJHHHHHHHHHDYIBJHHHHHHHHHDoIYKHHHHHHHHH)
  

Here (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/02atmosphere.swf?level=AIBIBIBIAYPKAIBIBIBIBPKHHHEODQIAIBIFOEIAIBIFOEIAIBIFIAIBIFOEIAIBIFOHHHHHPCgIAIAIAIEIAIAIAIEPDIAIAIAIEIAIAIAIEIAIAIAIEPHHHBPJBPJHHHFNEgIAIAIGNFNFIAIAIGNHHHHHAOCgIAIAIAICPJBIAIAIAIAICPJHHHGMGIHCMGIHCMHHHEOEIBIHANEIBIBIEIBIHOEIBKFKCIHHHHHHFIDIBIBKBIBgIAIAIAKCIAIAIAIAICIAIAIAIAICIAIAIAIAIFJAIAIGIAIAJGLHDIHHHFJAKFKAJELAJDKBIAIDJAJAJBNAKHHHHBJGLHCJHHGKCPAIBIgIAIALBIAJBIAJBIBMAIEJBOBLAIAIAIBIALBJBKHHHGMDIBIBICLBLDIAJAIDLAJAJBPJDIBIBIDKAKHICIHBKHIBIEIBIAIHICIHBJGIAIAIHBYIHIC)'s my attempt at structural atmosphere. I call it "Canabalt homage". I realised you can get quite a bit of a game's story across with nothing but level design, especially if it reinforces other aspects of the story (in this case, just the title). I could probably have done more if I'd had more screens to play with, but then again maybe not.

AndrewFM, I find your "atmosphere" level rather unfair. Once I know which path is the right one to take, I have to go back and start again. This would be slightly alleviated if there was a checkpoint right before the path splits, but really, I don't think the path should split at all. The only way something like that is fair is if the player realises he has made a mistake and knows where, and makes sure not to do it again.

Loving the workshop :)

Sorry I was a little half-assed today, so I only did some  :shrug2:

Exercise 1:
The puzzles are fairly easy.
Because I wanted to teach each step slowly, where the previous puzzle will teach you about the next. The "theme" (whatever it is) continues along each puzzle. I was aiming for a kind of "this is easy" -if- you go through it step by step, but the player would still feel "smart" as if the designer was trying to be tricky, but you caught on.

Puzzle 1 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAABCBAAAAAAABABAAAAAAABDBAAAAAAABEBAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)

Puzzle 2 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABBBAAAAAABAAEBAAAAABADBAAAAAAABCBAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)

Puzzle 3 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAABCBAAAAAABADABAAAAABAAABAAAAAABBABAAAAAAABEBAAAAAAAABAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)

Puzzle 4 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAABBCBBAAAABEADAABAAAABAAAABAAAAABAABAAAAAAABBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)

Puzzle 5 (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/sokoban.swf?level=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABABAAAAABBCBEBAAABEADDABAAAABAADABAAAAABAAEBAAAAAABBBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)


Exercise 4:
Trying to teach everything in such a limited space was challenging. I wanted to avoid the top of the screen too, so it wouldn't have that "warping" effect once you reach it.

Mechanics (http://jonathanwhiting.com/coding/ldw/04teaching.swf?level=KCLxIHHHHHHHHEKCLBIHHHHHHHHEKpALBIHHHHHHHHG4RCJBIHHHHHHHHHJCJBIHHHHHHHHHJBgJxIHHHHHHHHHBoApQBIHHHHHHHHHBQCQBIHHHHHHHHHBICQxIHHHHHHHHHBIBYIBIHHHHHHHHHBIApIBIHHHHHHHHHBMBIHHHHHHHHHANxIHHHHHHHHHCLBIHHHHHHHHEqCoKxIHHHHHHHHE)


I tried to make the "rooms" at the beginning of the level give the player the idea they need to be moving upwards. But when they realise they cant jump up then they would work their way down towards the "bad guy".

I think a problem is that the player might think they "messed up" once the bad guy is dead, but I am hopping they will play around enough to "accidently" shoot themselves up a level. Then use this new found knowledge for the rest of the level.

(I found it hard to teach the player to shoot, since they wouldn't know the controls unless I tell them. And I never really found a reason to need to shoot faster. Soooo I never really taught these two things)

*edit... I didn't see this was from 2010.. sorry for the necro