TIGSource Forums

Yay, it's BirdyWorld again!
If you don't remember/never played the original, it was my entry for the Assemblee competition (http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=9826.0).  It was a Zelda-like game where players collaboratively added to an initially blank world, one screen at a time.  It was also a concept I enjoyed, and so wanted to return to, eventually.

So, here goes.

I've got some changes in mind from the original competition version.  I'm using this Alundra-style engine-thingy I was working on some time back but never got a chance to use, and so there will be a more definite distinction of height.  It's gonna be a tricky thing to work with, though.

There's also going to be other characters besides the birdy, so I doubt the name will stay.


Anyway: BirdyWorld!  Here goes nothin'!

I just tried the original, this looks much better and I did enjoy that one. The game could greatly use some sounds ;) (Assuming my speakers just haven't died on me secretly)

If I'm not mistaken the worlds are taken from the interwebs? Very cool!

looks good

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA I AM SO EXCITED I JUST CANNOT WAIT AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA [/fangirling]

Oh my gosh I am honest to goodness excited to see this be worked on again! I LOVED the original and justaioerbklenblernbkle  :tearsofjoy:

I love the graphics you got going there! So yummy! :D

 :handthumbsupL:>:D:handthumbsupR:
Will there be a co-op mode?
Will there be palettechanged characters?
Will there be online co-op?

I absolutely liked the original. (I even voted for it if remember correctly)
Keep up the good work!

YES YES YES YES YES YES YEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

This is great news.  Man I played the first version for so many hours.  It was awesome when there were other people playing it...  You'd basically be building the dungeon you were fighting in together.  Or when you finished a dungeon, you'd be wandering around getting ready to build the next dungeon and then suddenly someone else made one and you had to hunt around to find out where it was...  Or when I was the first one to beat a boss and got to choose what item it dropped...  Or or when I found someone made a maze and I got to wander around in it...  Man I am nostalgia-bombing already.

I will play this game.  I would even pay money to play this game.

Also, these are features that I dream of:
1. Different regions - i.e. fulfill certain requirements and your world-building tools can be switched to ice-world blocks, desert world, mountain-top area, etc.
2. Safe zones - like, a house you could build that has a policeman or something that prevents enemies from spawning in a certain radius (for making towns, etc)
3. The ability to "undo" the last zone you created (i.e. if you make a mistake)
4. Lots more NPCs
5. Moderators to prevent griefing (e.g. making screens that are completely solid rock)
6. Persistent perks - Beat a world and you get a prize you can carry over into other worlds?  Even if it's just cosmetic...

Although to be fair, I would play it even if it was just the old game re-skinned lol.  As long as other people are playing it too.

are you still using only assemblee graphics?

Cool, I remember playing the original version a lot, it was great fun. Looking forward to how you improve it.  :)

Aaaaaaa, I never got to play the original because I had dialup then...
Finally, another chance!
Super looking forward to this, dude.

This is quite exciting! The first one was great and the concept has much room for expansion!  ;D

Whoa, thanks for the response, guys!

It's still really early in development, so I'm only yet at the point of getting the screen editor functioning and making all the tileset graphics.  It's slow going, but it's nice to see the little things come together.

I'm still trying to decide on some plans that may alter the game structure quite a bit, particularly concerning the dungeons and powerups.  There are some things I'd like to implement, but I kinda don't want to lose some of the original feel... and I'm afraid of overcomplicating things...
Ah well, I guess I've still got plenty of time to work things out.


Hmm, co-op is tricky.  I was trying to think if online play would be feasible, if at least to see other players running around...  I just don't want to have to deal with synching enemies across computers :epileptic:
...And there just might be pallete-swapped characters.


1. Regions are something I've wanted to add, too.  So they'll be there, in some form or another.
2. I like the idea of a policeman house.  As far as making safe zones, it's an elegant solution.
3. I guess some sort of undo could be possible.  Maybe only within a certain time after making the screen, or if you have an item or something.
4. Heh, I guess?  Like in houses/shops, or out and about somehow?
5. I don't know if it will come to needing moderation, but I'll keep the idea open.
6. That's something that I'd like to have, also.  It'd be a tricky thing to balance, though, 'cause it can't be too game-altering.  But I'll try to have something.


Nah, I'm shooting for all original graphics here.  The birdy is only there as a placeholder.

(http://www.l-ames.com/logan/more-birdyworld-2.gif)

Still workin' on getting everything into a makeshift editor.  Then I'll have to give the editor an actual user interface and whatnot to make it usable.


I'm still kinda afraid that having height is really going to complicate things, even just at the editing level...

But it is fun to work with.  I'll try to get it all manageable.

Also, yay!  Landstalker trees!

Aaaaaa that looks amazing so far  :-*

As far as adding height, um I got nothing. Sitting here thinking about it, nothing's coming to me. I wish you the best of luck with that!

Oh wow. It already looks way better than the original, and that's saying a whole lot.

FOLLOWIN'

It was really cool the first time around, though I never got to build much. It was fascinating wandering out to the edges of the world, where things were deserty and... well, neglected.

Whole thing is cool o.o

Can maps be edited once they're committed and finished? Can they be edited by anyone but the original creator?

Looks good! I love how it looks so far.

Perhaps not having sync'd enemies could actually be interesting. Your pal will yell at you to set down traps or something to kill enemies you can't see, for instance!

this is looking great

(http://www.l-ames.com/logan/more-birdyworld-3.gif)

Editor's coming along!  Hopefully I'll be able to move onto other parts of the game soon.
Incidentally, I think I might need a couple testers to try out just the editor, for the sake of usability.


There might be a brief editing period, in case the author feels he messed up on something.
I'm also going in include in-editor testing, though, so hopefully mistakes won't be too much of an issue.  I don't intend that others would be able to edit the page, though.


Heheh, I remember an old Click game that did something like that.  It was bizarre seeing other people running around fighting figments of their imaginations...
Well, we'll see what happens.

I CALL DIBS.

I'd be willing to do testing if it is needed.

Is there an idea as to how many different items and bosses (if that's to be a thing)we will have? I remember designing some parts of a dungeon around having an item from a previous dungeon in the original Birdy World (said item being the item that let you swim) and having fun with that so yeah. I figure you'd add more boss variety. Maybe it could vary depending on dungeon location? Which brings up another question, will there be a way to implement dungeon puzzles and different dungeon themes according to where the dungeon is placed? (Like a dungeon placed in water may be water themed, while a dungeon placed in a mountainous area may be fire/lava themed or mine-themed. Something like that.)

This sounds so frickin sweet, I'm keeping a close eye on this thread. Also, the graphics looks super, I love the unorthodox color palette you're using!

Alright, thanks Ashkin and Mr. LL!
I know it's only the screen editor at this point, but it's a pretty central part of the game, and I really want to make sure it's intuitive enough to use.  Especially with height as part of it now.
Anyway, I should have all of the elements into the editor shortly, and then I'll shoot you two over a quick build.

Heh, thanks!
I'm actually using a palette I made that includes a bunch of unusual color gradients, just to try to break myself out of dependency on some of the more "safe" colors I would otherwise choose.  I'm still not very good at it, though.


I definitely will want themed dungeons, complete with (hopefully) enemies, traps, and bosses to fit, but I'm still toying around with concepts for the dungeon structure/sequence, as a whole.

My plan right now is to have multiple animal/character types that you can choose from at the beginning of each new world.  Say, from 4 different species (selected each round from 6).  Each of the different animal types starts from a different starting point (a sort of temple devoted to that animal), and possesses from the start a unique ability (this part would make things a little tricky...)  Ideally, the different teams would be able to "claim" screens by finding the treasure in each one (each screen's ownership would go to whichever team had the most players travel there and find the treasure).  In a claimed screen, maybe enemies wouldn't be able to hurt the reigning team?  I dunno, it's an idea...  It would hopefully support a sense of "home base", and maybe a bit of competition.
Anyway, in order to earn another animal team's ability, you have to go to their temple at their starting point, and go through a dungeon there, which would be constructed by the other three teams, just as normal.

I've been weighing the pros and cons of this idea for a while, and still can't decide if I like it.  On the plus side, it would mean splitting up the players, initially, maybe giving them a little more room to sprawl.  It might offer a sense of competition in fighting over territory, at least farther away from each team's home, where fewer players would travel.  It would give each team a different ability to play with right from the start, and limit the core abilities that you get to the more useful/interesting ones (which I'd pick for each team).  Plus, it would ensure that these dungeons would be far enough away from one another, in what would hopefully seem an alien environment.

The drawbacks, though, would be that there'd no longer be the sense of camaraderie of everyone working towards a new dungeon, then filling it out and choosing a power at the end; it would sort of interfere with the whole "the game is directed by the players" feel that the first one was all about (though, actually I could add in "to be discovered" dungeons in addition to the "other team's temple" dungeons, if I can manage it without over-complicating things...)  And balancing/restricting each team's powers against one another could potentially be a nightmare.  What's to stop the team that can swim from surrounding their temple with water?  (I actually do have a few ideas, but they all seem awfully confusing...)

Anyway, like I said, I'm playing with ideas for the whole structure of the game.  Hopefully I'll come up with a nice compromise by the time I need to implement it.

Why not start each world with the choice of just one animal type (just one starting point) and allow people to build the other shrines somewhere down the road?

Oh, I see - you mean you pick one and you're stuck with it o:

(http://www.l-ames.com/logan/more-birdyworld-4.gif)

Making some headway at the TIGJam.
I managed to refit some of the old scripts, so it was easy enough to get the world all online once again.  Added the functionality for menus, too, which is something I always dread doing.  I've got a basic collision detection going (can't very well use the MMF stuff when working with extra dimensions), and should get weapons and enemies started shortly.

O:
duuuude
i want to make a house in that void

holy fuck this looked soo gorgeous at TIGJam.

In motion I mean. It looks gorgeous here, too.

Wow, the void looks really pretty.

Maybe, in this version, the void should be more mechanically/story-wise than just a blank space on the map? Maybe you have to build to keep the void from seeping in and destroying the town at the center of the world? Maybe enemies come from portals to the void, and areas farther out are more enemy-infested because they hop right out of the void? It would make building new areas more dangerous, so there's some risk there.

Really excited that you're still working on this. New art looks really lovely. I'd like to be another voice saying that I really liked the collaborative feel of the original; not sure competition needs to take place.

okay so I finally read the stuff. Personally I love the idea of adding a competitive element between players. Perhaps there could be another goal that everyone could be working towards as well, though? Like eventually you'll reach zones that can't be claimed or conquered by any team or something, filled with Terrible Creatures.

Enemies not being able to hurt players in claimed zones seems like it would make a huge area of the area surrounding the spawn places very boring? What if it were a more passive bonus like taking less damage or dealing more, or lower shop prices or something?

Also as far as players surrounding their bases with things only they can surmount, what if there were very expensive or non-base-dungeon-loot one-use items that could be purchased that allowed players to temporarily traverse such obstacles?

Dude, was this game on phuban's livestream at TIGJam when he was walking around showing everyone there? If so, this thing looked glorious.

If not, it still looks good.

I guess it was?  It was on his route as he went around the room pointing his laptop at things.
...So, thanks!


An idea to put some purpose behind the void could be interesting.  I don't know what the best way would be to handle such a concept, but I'll definitely keep it in mind.
I suppose even just having strange, void-based enemies seeping into void-adjacent screens would be a pretty neat peril.  And an incentive to build.


Well, there would still be a collaborative feel within each team, I'm sure.  Nonetheless, noted.


Yeah, "enemies don't hurt" isn't really the best of ideas for claimed areas.  Those passive ideas would work pretty well, though.

As it is right now, the ultimate goal would be a final dungeon somewhere in the middle of the map, where players aren't allowed to enter until they've conquered the other three teams' dungeons.  Were you thinking something more overworld-y, though?

Items that allow players to get past ability-specific obstacles (other than the hammer, which will hopefully work about how it did before) are a thought that I had had, but are also something I'd rather avoid if possible.  I don't want them to be able to trivialize the actual abilities, or ruin potentially challenging screens, even if they would be expensive or limited.

...

Alright, here's my current idea for handling different teams/abilities.  Let me know if it sounds too ridiculous/confusing:


Each team's players would start off with their team-specific ability, but it would start off very limited.  You would initially only be able to use it on screens that have been deemed "cleared", with the treasure placed and opened (by anyone), and all screen exits accessible.  The player would get a per-screen indication as to whether he could use the ability.  Otherwise, the player only has a dumbed-down version that's just slightly helpful (like, instead of being able to straight-up swim, you would only not take damage from falling in the water).

Upon beating another team's dungeon, you would not only receive their team's ability, but also some power-whatever-thingamajig which you can take back to your temple.  Upon returning it to your temple, you (or maybe every member of your team?) earn your upgraded power that you can use anywhere, without limit.

Furthermore, if you bring a second team's power-whatever-thingamajig back to your temple, you get a sweet little bonus addition to your team's ability (maybe something that turns your power into an attack?  It'll have to be something worth getting that doesn't alter the game too much).  So you sorta build on your team's original ability by conquering others' dungeons, as well as gaining their abilities.


...The drawbacks, of course, are that it's confusing, and not particularly intuitive.  You have this unique ability but you're not allowed to use it?  What is that?  And although the later players will get a smooth ride when everything around their base is already "cleared", there would still be little problems here and there (like going off the edge of a screen while swimming?  What if you end up in a non-cleared screen?)

this is a much better idea than what I was imagining.

I really dig the idea of having to take something back to your temple from the others, and limiting your team ability to already-cleared screens seems like a good way to prevent/minimize impossible screens...but yeah unintuitive. Seems kinda weird to be switching back and forth between can-use and can't-use screens and stuff...

What if you just disabled team abilities in the editor's test mode and couldn't accept the screen until you touched at least two/three sides in one go? Would at least ensure that each screen is passable in some way by all players, while still allowing for other ability-specific routes in the remaining directions...?

Then you could just have team abilities be always enabled.

Ooh, that's one I didn't think of.

Seems like it might work.  But it might also restrict the kinds of rooms that people can make.


...Anyway, I've been thinking about it, and I think I found a solution.  I should just be able to just keep tabs on a screen's "passability" per team, and combine the info when the teams acquire one another's abilities.  It should allow each team to use their own abilities freely, allow competing teams to still use workaround items (like the hammer) up until they beat (or just get to) each other's dungeons, and lock it off cleanly afterward, all without bothering the players with convoluted details and restrictions.

I could still work in the little bonuses for bringing things back to your own temple, though.

YUMMY PIXELS

Played the first one, it was cool!

Just polished up the player's main tool for tackling uncrossable screens: the hammer!

(http://www.l-ames.com/logan/more-birdyworld-5.gif)

Able to reduce others' hard work to rubble with just a few swings.

(http://www.l-ames.com/logan/more-birdyworld-6.gif)

Clears trees and rocks, lowers walls and ledges, and builds bridges across water.  Also useful for making hidden passages and other little destructible details.  Functions pretty much like it did before, except this time you actually swing it at what you want changed.

Hammer dmg is temporary right?

Also:

I AM SUPER PUMPED

There should totally be another item that is like the opposite of the hammer that lets you fix stuff!!!

Maybe fix whole screens all at once but is hard to get. Then you could totally have some asynchronous team vs. team action going on!


... oh and along with that, permanent hammer dmg if it's not already, because permanent shit is rad(exclamation marks)

Whoa! Wait a minute!


I was thinking and then I thought to myself, nah, but.

Can you dig tunnels sideways that are really hard to see? 0_0


and finally:

I really like the idea of designing stuff with your team's abilities in mind while other teams can hammer their way through. It'd be interesting, maybe, if a majority of the abilities actually had something to do with perma-editing maps but that might be too much. I dunno!

(It feels like a central part of the game so I'm going off on a wild mutable tangent)

The hammer is sorta permanent/temporary, just like before.  You can use it to clear paths, but when you come back to the screen it will be all healed up.  But all you have to do is strike a spot where the hammer was used, and it will all uncover itself in a chain reaction.

(http://i.imgur.com/0kfNn.gif)

Thus hammer-worn areas become hidden passages and destructible bits.  Or really shoddily-made buildings.

I don't know if I'd really want permanent changes... even if they could be undone, the point of the hammer is mainly to cross the uncrossable.  Some cross-team play based on permanent changes could be neat, but I don't know if I'd want to open the way for outright vandalism.

I plan to have a couple other tools to manipulate an already-finished screen (like a trap-centered anti-hammer and a multi-purpose button), if I can work them in well enough.

whoa that is awesome (the hammer chain reaction thing)

Oh, yes! I remember loving this game from Assemblee! Do you want music? Because I will compose the heck out of some music for this.

This looks awesome.  :)

Why, I will most certainly need some music!

What format do you typically compose in, though?  I'm primarily interested in sequenced music right now (which would I guess be tracker-format stuff), so as to be able to adjust the tracks during play to suit the needs of the area.  It's something I've always wanted to toy with.

Okay, question time.

So, I'm trying to figure out how to approach the enemy placement system, and I was wondering what kind of opinions people had about how it worked in the old BirdyWorld?  (If you don't remember, it had these skull icons (and one treasure icon) at the bottom which you would click to add to this egg, which upgrade it to a higher-level monster.  You'd then click on the map to drop the egg there, which would break and leave the monster.  When all the skulls were spent, you'd get to place the treasure.)

So I'm just wondering if this process, simple as it was, was interesting enough to hold onto?  Was the act of adding skulls and seeing the upcoming treasure interesting enough to give it a benefit over just picking enemies from a list?

I would say it would benefit from more info/transparency to the process (like being able to see what enemy would result from the current egg before placing it, or to the to-be-augmented egg before adding more skulls), but I was fond of being able to see the screen's strife level strewn into a row like that, and of the feel of adding them...
Additionally, I want to ideally have a few different classes of monsters (standard, trap, and specialty, along with environment-specific variations of each), but could probably manage that with a simple category switch...

Anyway, thoughts?

The old system certainly worked well! It was fun to decide between spamming tons of weaker enemies or use fewer stronger enemies! (At least that's how I remember it working it's been forever xD)

You should expand on it for sure though! Experiment with a few ideas and see what works and what doesn't.

If I remember right, the requirement for upgrading/adding more monsters had to do with the "level" of monsters in neighboring screens right?  Something like the sum of half the levels of neighboring screens, though the maximum seemed semi-random.  I remember it being a fun-but-time-consuming mechanic, if you were dead set on leveling up the environment.  I also remember that it sort of broke down in dead-ends, corridors, etc.

All of this correct.

I guess the whole strife system could do with an overhaul, huh?

The core idea behind it was definitely cool.  And even though it was time consuming, it was fun enough that I did it a lot.

Sorry, just saw your reply to my offer of music!


I actually got started composing using MODPlug Tracker back in 8th grade; I usually saved my work as .it back then. It's been a long time since I used that format, but I could probably pick it back up again without too much trouble if I had to.

That said, if all you want is the ability to mute tracks selectively, I could easily just compose some stuff for you and export each track as an individual waveform that you can play simultaneously, muting each at will.

Shoot me a PM and we can hash out the details. :)

I occasionally google Birdyworld because that game made me so happy.  So I'm very excited to see that you're re-making it like this.  Like REALLY super excited. 

One thing I liked about the enemy placement system was that it was sort of a surprise what you got for different numbers, at least when you first started playing. I liked the eggs, but maybe each enemy egg could have a different pattern to make remembering each of them a little easier.

As far as the strife system is concerned, I do remember it being intuitive but slightly tedious. Maybe some combination of how far away the room is from the starting point, plus how many rooms there are total on the map (to prevent people from just plunging into the abyss in a straight line for the greatest treasure) would determine how much there was available in that room. Could be sort of the same thing for a dungeon: the farther away it is from the entrance, plus the more rooms in the dungeon, the greater strife there is until you can place the boss. 

I feel like making players compete might reduce the world-building aspect into some sort of contest of efficiency.  Part of the joy of the first iteration was building pointlessly thematic stuff, like forest lakes and villages.  When you start adding competition into the mix, it increases the impetus to be effective/efficient, which doesn't necessarily spur creativity.

But I'm kind of a grumpy old man about change, so take that with a grain of salt.

It'd be kind of cool if rooms had donation boxes, where you could give coins to people who made nice maps. Nothing obtrusive, just a little placeable object. People could even design little challenge areas with the reward box at the end, for the hell of it.

I love this idea. Yes.

Seconded. It would be annoying to have to place it physically though- would it fit on the HUD as just a tiny box that you click to drop a coin in? Or maybe you could just have a plain ol' + button.

Its a great concept and a nice art style.

I would like to say (as the initial human) that I'd much prefer a physical object to a + on the HUD or something otherwise removed from the level!

Obviously there's been nothing to hint that it'd even make it in, but. In case it does.

Donation box, huh?

It might be possible, but I think I've already used up every space in my tileset.  I might be able to work something in, though.  I also don't know quite how I'll be handling individual players' information, so we'll see what happens.

It is a pretty neat idea, though.  It would make for a nice bit of player interaction.

That does remind me that I promised I'd make it so you can see each screen's author, though.  I'll have to remember to save some room on the HUD for that.


Well, I already put together another little algorithm for the strife (similar to last time: the farther from home, the higher the danger), but I do like the idea of basing it off of the number of screens placed so far.  If I can find an elegant way to work that in, I'll try and do so.

And I'm kinda already decided about the multiple teams idea.  If it really doesn't work, I should be able to scrap it, but I think it should be a fun thing to try.


Awesome, good to hear!
Overall, I would still prefer sequenced music, if possible.  I'm just fond of it over streamed formats like mp3.
But I'm afraid I can't really give you any real direction for what I'm looking for music-wise until I'm a little further in the development.
Sorry about that.

That's cool, the more I think about it, the more faith I have that people will still design interesting stuff regardless of total efficiency. Plus, y'know, don't let the players design your game and all that. We don't know what we want, haha.

(http://www.jakobhaglof.com/items/birdy.jpg)

following

Oh wow that's so awesome!  I feel honored to have been included amongst your sticky note illustrations!

And man, I need to get back to working on this.  I kinda got overwhelmed after I implemented the enemy-adding system.  So many enemies to make...

Get to it!

YES.

Alright, time for some update time.  I think I'm overdue here.

(http://www.l-ames.com/logan/more-birdyworld-8.gif)
The strife system is in place, working much like it did before, where you use the screen's strife tokens to make more power enemies, or else distribute it amongst weaker enemies, until you're out of tokens and get to place the chest.  The main difference is that there are two categories of strife, red and blue, broken up into varying tiers.  The two strife types can be roughly thought of as "movement" and "attack", but they're more loose than that, and can be combined to create a bunch of different enemies with disparate costs.  Hopefully it won't end up being too confusing.

Beyond that, the enemies are slowly being added, some old and some new.  It takes much longer when I actually have to design and draw them (I'm pretty lousy at both of these tasks), but the enemy roster is filling up.

And oh yeah, that's an otter there.  He'll be the swimming guy.  I started working on all the different animal types some time back, but haven't quite solidified them all, or their different powers.  The bird's around too, and is looking pretty different.  But there will be more of that once I've actually finished spriting all the different animals.
...And I still have no clue what I'll actually end up calling the game, what with the bird being only one of the six animal types.

Anyway, I've decided to start work on shops and such, and was wondering if anyone had any shop-type ideas that should be in here.

Old ones that should stay:
Gossip (which should actually have a purpose this time)
Save (naturally)
Bakery (for health)
Info
Warp
Meta tools
Potions (also hopefully functional)
Relics (for one-time rare items)

New ones so far:
Guardhouse (for keeping enemies out of town zones (thanks, J. R. Hill!))
Weapons/Armors/Tools shop (for those non-game-changing upgrades)
Quest house? (haven't quite figured this one out, but meant to serve as a way to create extra little quests and challenges)

Anyway, any ideas?

BIRDYWORLD NEWS! <3



How do guard houses work? Can they change hands (i.e. team they're "working for")? Are they permanent emplacements that reject enemies, or do they just pour guard-enemies out to fight non-team dudes?

Exchange House - players can store items for other players to take. If you want to take something out though, you have to put something else in.

Temple - pray to your animal god for various temporary boons. If you pray to the wrong animal god you will be SMOTE, MOTHERFUCKER.

Workshop - construct mechanical familiars to aid you in your travels, from materials you collect.

Chance/Fortune House: Put an item or money at stake and try your luck.

Club House: Members/allies only. Store items/money/etc for common use or trade.

Edit: Posted this before reading about your teams idea, disregard if it doesn't fit.

Very fun game, regarding the first version. I had never seen it before, but what I did play of it was pretty fun and enjoyable. It was a little hard to find the dungeons, so maybe an overworld compass could be a purchased item available.

As for having other players visible, that would be a great idea. Here are a couple of solutions (Maybe not the best, I am not the best programmer) to the issue of syncing monsters. First the harder one, then the possibly easier one. Well, it's going to be hard either way, but here they are:
________________________________________________________________________________________

A) The first person in each room is the "host" who sends the position of the monsters to the other players in the room. When that player leaves the room, the next player in line becomes "host" and sends the position to others in the same room.

Pros: Multiplayer (which seems like a necessary feature for this game type), synced enemies

Cons: Space(number of players in a map or dungeon can ruin the experience of fighting), might be hard to code, might desync or cause lag, "Host" player could cheat the location of enemies locally, "hosts" with laggy connections
________________________________________________________________________________________

B) Have a hub town where all the players can see eachother, and form a party of up to three or four. Outside the town, you only see yourself, and if applicable your party members. The party's "host" will send data regarding enemy locations. If that player quits or leaves the party, they can play solo, and the next available party member will send the location of enemies to the rest of the party. You may have to limit party members to the same screen, sortof like what Wanderlust does.

Pros: Better on space, Co-op multiplayer, synced enemies, need only send data between party members on the same screen and not everybody else in the game, perhaps less lag, seems easier to code?

Cons: "Host" player could cheat the location of enemies locally (though not as bad of a problem if players can leave party, and since it's co-op), "hosts" with laggy connections, may need to limit players to the same screen a la Wanderlust style depending on how your system works
________________________________________________________________________________________

Personally, I like the second method best. Again, they aren't the best solutions, but they should work well enough for something that isn't a AAA MMO :) If anyone has any better solutions, feel free to chime in.

Another suggestion, chat is kindof iffy in these types of games. It can either add to it, or take away from it. I like what Slime Online did, which is to use preset hotkey emoticons. Stuff like the traditional smilies, and other stuff like "Help" or "Follow me" or whatever else.

At any rate, I hope you take this into consideration. Multiplayer would add quite an edge to your game! :)

EDIT: As for buildings, I really like the Chance/Fortune house suggestion. Gambling for the chance to win items at the expense of loss of gold or hearts would be entertaining.

cool game!

http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=9748.0 (http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=9748.0)

why would u do that?! my :blink::blink:!

ASHKIN!!!!!! cool game btw, can't believe I have never seen this before.

Man, I still really want to do right by this project.  I still love the concept and everything about it.

But I'm just so terrible at this whole game making/devlog thing.  I don't think I've even touched the game in half a year, now, and I feel like I've betrayed everybody who was interested in it.  And so I have become afraid to touch it again.

As far as I can tell, I have about everything I need to just make this thing, but yet... I don't know.  There's some sort of impediment before me.

I'm not sure what to do.  I feel like I have no place making games.

Ech... :tired:

Boy do I know that feeling. I can't even garner negative feedback.

I also know the "haven't worked on x game in y months" thing. It actually helps you get a fresh view on things.

You seem to have quite a few people excited about it (myself included) and you love the idea. Just start working on it. Find a feature not implemented yet and implement it. The rest will follow. :)

Allow me to present the opposite viewpoint:



There is no shame in abandoning projects.

They can't rise from the dead if you're pretending they're still alive, either!

I love BirdyWorld a whole lot (what it was, what it is, and what it might be) and would love to see it progress and grow, and I don't doubt that you're capable of creating it and finishing it: but it's rarely anything so simple as one's capabilities that prevent a game from being made. I have begun & loved many projects in the past, and I have abandoned many beloved projects. Not all of them come back, but the ones that do come back with a beautiful vengeance.

There are plenty of people who will disagree with me, of course (just look at the previous post, and probably the next one) -- but I think if being mired in this one project (and not knowing quite why; that's the worst part) is making you feel out of sorts with making games in general? Drop it. You don't even have to start something new right away. Just open your mind to chasing new and exciting things.

Hey everyone, Fifth's working on BirdyWorld again, sweet!

What do you mean, you have no place making games? That's nonsense! People want to see this game made, and you are literally the only one who can do that. It is not only your place to make this game, it is exclusively your place to make this game.

Go to it, sir! :coffee:

What Droqen said.
I also know a lot how that feels.
It's not good to wade in sorrow about something you cannot get yourself excited about anymore (at the current time).
Leave it where it is, it won't go away, and move on.
Eventually you may find yourself stumbling about it again, or find some of what you lovedabout it within something completely new and different.

I hadn't even considered that.

It's a good point. If you're feeling, I dunno, held back by the project then it may be time to try and move on to a new project.

Okay, I guess I should specify that BirdyWorld itself isn't responsible for the whole "I have no place making games" feel, but rather that it's the biggest victim of the feeling, as it is the project I have with the most meaning.  There were many other elements behind this mentality that I simplified and omitted, as I didn't want to go off on some whiny rant.

But I do appreciate the advice.  I know that there comes times when you have to look at even your most beloved projects, realize that they have become little more than dead weight to you, and cut them loose.  I've had to do that, myself...

That said, I don't believe that BirdyWorld is such a case.  I still look at the game with a degree of love and excitement.  I've picked back up development, and am plodding along once more.  Things were just as I left 'em, no worse for the break.

...But I still suck a devlogs, so... sorry about that.

...And thanks for the support, everyone!

I've loved every game of yours that I've played so stop being so mean to such a great developer. I don't even think it's possible to have no place making games.

Okay, screw it.  I want to make BirdyWorld again.

yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

!!!!!! this is an exciting development!  :tearsofjoy:

I didn't know what BirdyWorld was until today.

That being said I can now say about time, and that I was hoping you'd continue work on this.

Looks pretty cool though.

subscribe.

HEY LOGAN YOU STILL WORKING ON THIS? IF YOU WANT FREE ART HMU

Still going!

I've been mostly working on tiles, which is a painfully slow process.  For me, at least.

Here's the start of a "zen garden" tileset.  It was supposed to be a mine, but somehow along the way it just started looking more like a zen garden, and I sorta ran with it.

(http://www.l-ames.com/logan/more-birdyworld-11.gif)

You might also notice there's now a dark outline above where any ledge/obstacle cuts off.  Adding that was sort of a gamble, 'cause I wasn't sure if it would be possible in Multimedia/Clickteam Fusion, or at least work at a decent speed.
But it worked, and I don't notice any performance hit, so it stays!  I'm hoping this will help a bit with map readability.

And thanks, tok, but I don't think I need help with the art.  At least not yet.  I'll keep it in mind, though.

cool, im excited. keep at it

Oh cool!  Excited about this coming back :)

Man, I don't know what I was thinking when I figured making six different player characters in an eight-direction top-down game was a good idea.  This is ending up being a lot more pixelwork than I bargained for.  And don't get me started on the tilesets.

So, I've finally made the body graphics for what I hope will be the final choices for the six playable animals.  Most of these guys spent the past few years as just heads and tails, so it's been due.

(http://www.l-ames.com/logan/birdspin-1.gif)  The Bird.  All characters can jump, but the bird is able to flap a few times in the air, for higher, longer jumps.  Which will be pretty important, given how easy it is to play with height in the editor.

(http://www.l-ames.com/logan/birdspin-2.gif)  The Otter.  This one has been in a few screenshots.  Can swim in water.  A straightforward solution to a straightforward obstacle.

(http://www.l-ames.com/logan/birdspin-3.gif)  The Dog.  Can dig in soft ground for a short distance, able to go under walls and obstacles.  Kind of like the teleportation cloak from the original game, though a little more limited and a little more lenient.  Kind of a tricky power to get the hang of, especially when there's height in play.

(http://www.l-ames.com/logan/birdspin-4.gif)  The Dragon.  Can breathe fire, which lingers for a while before going out.  The fire can be used as an attack, and can also burn small trees and other obstacles.

(http://www.l-ames.com/logan/birdspin-5.gif)  The Bear.  Can lift and throw small rocks and other obstacles.  There's admittedly some overlap with the Dragon in terms of what the power helps you surpass, but I'm hoping it acts differently enough to make it feel distinct.

(http://www.l-ames.com/logan/birdspin-6.gif)  The Armadillo.  Can roll into a small, invincible ball.  Useful for getting places quickly and safely.  Doesn't have a lot of practical use as far as getting past tricky terrain, but is pretty fun to use.

The idea is that each game session will have four of these to choose to start from, and that you'd eventually obtain the powers of all four in the session.  And then if you play a separate session you can start as something new.

I guess we'll see how that goes.

(http://www.l-ames.com/logan/more-birdyworld-12.gif)

Getting to the point where I'm happy with the forest tileset, though I may end up separating the ruins from this one, depending on how many tilesets I want to end up with.

I'm experimenting with the larger trees here.  A large tree will pop up when you draw four regular tree tiles together, same as with rocks.

Like so:
(http://www.l-ames.com/logan/birdy-trees.gif)

Following. Really interesting tiles. The colors seem a bit strange, but I like it, I think. I also really like the animals - they're well animated and have a pretty good amount of character to them.

Thanks, it really means a lot!

The colors are strange because I'm using an unusual palette I made to try to keep from relying on "safe" colors.  Particularly neutral-looking greens, browns, and greys.  I can't really say for myself whether it's working or not, so I just hope things look alright, for the most part.

As for progress, I've started making headway into a mine tileset, which will be the armadillo's home turf.
It still needs quite a bit of work.

(http://www.l-ames.com/logan/more-birdyworld-13.gif)

Also, since the game is no longer exclusively about the bird, I think I might need a new name for this project.  I have no ideas of what, though.

Woah, what did I just stumble on? Game conceps sounds super interesting, subbed!

Alright, time to dust off this devlog a bit, now that I've actually been working on the game again.

So, mostly I've still been working on the tilesets, finishing up some old ones and fleshing out some of the new ones.  It's still a huge chunk of work, but the different environments are a pretty important part of this.

Anyway, I've also got a rudimentary version of the environment selector working in the editor:

(http://i.imgur.com/VPHmfsu.gif)

Tilesets aside, I've also added in support for different weapons, so a bunch of new weapons are in.  They'll take a bit of balancing and polishing to get right, though.

Beyond that, there's been a bunch of little things fixed, and a number of decisions finalized.  The shops/shopkeepers are pretty much all decided, but still need to be implemented.

Looks great so far!

I'd advise you to watch the value of your colors so that the unwalkable areas don't get confused for ground, and vice-versa. Also, watch to make sure you're not pushing too much noise into the tiles and sprites (the green trees from the previous pic, for example).

You mentioned weapons - are there also enemies in the game at the moment?

Keep it up!

IT IS ALIVE!

those colors are out of this world!!
it's awesome you decided to pick this up again!

This looks really nice

liked, subscribed

Thank you!

I know, the readability isn't the best.  It's one of those things I've been struggling with.  I've mainly ever dealt with platformer tilesets, which are a bit more forgiving, so I've been having to try to figure out readability vs interest.

Where there any bits in the gif there that stuck out?  Maybe the rocky ground tiles on the Tropical tileset?  Or the stone platform?

And I'll see what I can do about the trees in the Mine tileset.  But since they're solid obstacles, it shouldn't be too vital.


...As for enemies, I'm still not sure how to approach them, organization-wise.  I feel like there's this perfect way to set them up, be it categorically or thematically, that's just eluding me...
I have got a few implemented, but they're a random bunch.  A slime, a mouse, a few traps, a bird-thing, a couple plants, and a shark-bomb.

But, yeah... enemies are on the to-do list.


In the meantime, maps!
(http://www.l-ames.com/logan/more-birdyworld-14.gif)

Been working on the portable map, which included some larger (and more important) steps such as detecting what edges of a given screen are "passable".  This map here also shows the difference in environments, and also where adjacent voids are.
If you pass by a a screen that was previously a void, it will show a ? on the map to indicate that there's been a change.  I'd like to work in a system where you can automatically scan all the known voids at once for changes, but I'll have to see if that's doable, database-query-wise.  It may end up being a paid shop service of some sort.

Oh, and shop icons are still pending.

Nice maps! In the previous GIF, the trees in the Tropics and Forest zones, and the rocks in the grasslands and Savannah zones stand out, and look a bit awkward. Not too bad, just kinda "off".

I love the tropics rocks - they're really smooth.

Nice map system - will it map any other interesting locations, like the weapons and stuff for each character? Or are those going to be in the shop as well?

Keep it up!

Alright, thanks!  I'll have to take a look at those and see what I can do.  Although I thought the Savannah rocks turned out pretty well...

For the map, most items and weapons and upgrades will actually be handled at the shops.  ...Though "shops" is kind of a broad term in this case, as they'll include a lot more than just buying stuff.  You'll also get some important stuff from treasure chests, but the way those are handled won't really make them location-specific.

Beyond that, there's also dungeons and the players' starting screens, both of which will definitely be on the map.

---

Anyway, I just added two new meta-tools, which shall join the Hammer as a means of manipulating a screen after its creation.

The Shovel
Whereas the Hammer is there purely to help - to build bridges or smash paths through wall and stone - the Shovel's only purpose is to hinder.

You'll be able to use the shovel to dig pits of spikes, like so:

(http://i.imgur.com/6vKedIr.gif)

Which, like the hammer, become hidden once you return to the screen.

But when someone wanders back onto it, there's a SNAP, a brief pause, and then...

(http://i.imgur.com/XSWfEk7.gif)

Instant pitfall!


...And, as a side effect, the shovel ended up being good for building timed platforms.
But nobody's gonna use it for something like that, right?

(http://i.imgur.com/7wW42s3.gif)


And the other addition is

The Button
(http://i.imgur.com/7KOMNHV.gif)

...which I am admittedly still working on.  But it's going to do... various things.
Like uncover paths/traps, reveal/destroy enemies, act as a springboard, and whatever else I can think of.  It should add just a bit of variety to screens.

Like the Hammer, they're going to be a limited resource (I haven't decided if they'll draw from the same resource AS the Hammer, or else each have its own collectable amount), and they can only be used on a screen that hasn't been considered "cleared" yet, meaning all exits and the treasure are accessible.

This is really impressive, and I'm loving the idea. Good luck, dude!

Alrighty, update time!

I've been mostly mulling over the enemy setup, trying to get an order to things that I'm satisfied with.  I think I've finally come up with something I can work with, except it's not really much to show.  But if I can pull it off, it will a bit of enemy variety to the different environments while also classifying the enemy groups into something that will HOPEFULLY make some sense to the player.

(http://www.l-ames.com/logan/birdyworld-strife.gif)

So, this appears at the bottom of the screen whenever you want to place enemies.  Each screen will have its own "Strife" level based on how far you are from the start.  This Strife level is represented by Strife Tokens, which look like little skulls.  You can fit the tokens into the red/blue bars, filling up the slots to create a more powerful enemy, which you can then place on the map.

The top bars, Red Strife, correspond roughly to movement, health, and intelligence, whereas the bottom bars, the Blue Strife, are attack, special abilities, and general threat level.  So in any given screen you can use the tokens to create a bunch of small, weak enemies, or else make fewer, but more dangerous enemies.

But this is all old stuff.
What I've decided since was sort of an overall classification of the different strife levels, and ways to vary that amongst the environments.

The first three levels will be elemental, and cover 0: traps, 1: crawlers, and 2: bouncers.  Low-level enemies and hazards that pretty much do their own thing.  The next two will be based on altitude, and include 3: critters, and 4: beasts.  These levels will be able to react to the player and (hopefully) some of the other enemies.  The last group is for sapient creatures, and will be based on territory.  They are 5: warriors and 6: magicians.  Like the player, they'll be bipeds who carry weapons and tools, and (again, hopefully) will be able to more readily predict/fight the player.

The three major groups will vary their coverage of the environments in different ways, so that each environment has its own unique set of the recurring enemies.

...But if that doesn't work, I should always be able to dial it back.


Otherwise, I just tackled the Info Shop's map, which was something I was kinda dreading having to do.  Turns out it went pretty smoothly!

(http://www.l-ames.com/logan/more-birdyworld-15.gif)

You'll only get to see this from an Info Shop.  Like last time, it'll be free to look at.  It's not supposed to be an exact thing, but instead give the player an idea of what's around.
(colors subject to change)

(http://www.l-ames.com/logan/more-birdyworld-16.gif)
Playing with colors and proportions a bit more.  This one's closer to the Grasslands tileset.
Also, I can fit 7x7 screens comfortably on the map like this (instead of 5x5 screens), but to do so I have to make vertical tiles 1.5 pixels high.  That is, alternating 1 and 2 pixels.  I've been deliberating between this and 2x1 pixels, but the latter just doesn't look right...

Anyhow, I hope this will work well enough.

I hope your still working on this! I saw your post in the glitches thread and this game looks really nice.

The characters and animations are really good. I suck at animating. Keep it up!

Hey, does anybody still remember this game?

I've actually been working on it again recently but I'm not really sure how to share what I've done so far.  So here's a little sampling of things:

There's been a lot of progress on the environment tilesets.  The Savannah is an old one, but it's pretty much good to go now:
(https://i.imgur.com/pBXQ9XE.png)

I've got a bunch that are really close, like the Volcano:
(https://i.imgur.com/iEp2iCL.png)

And the Swamp was one that I was looking forward to, so it ended up being no trouble:
(https://i.imgur.com/TpaP3Uw.png)

I finally got the menu bar functioning, along with persistent inventory and equipment changing.  Which may not seem like much, but was actually a big step towards everything becoming more of a game.
(https://i.imgur.com/1AXoHGy.png)
I've got a good set of weapons all working, but they might need some balance before they're ready to go.
I still need to get to the gear and magic, though.

A lot of the basic shops are functioning, including Gossip:
(https://i.imgur.com/H5yYKvM.png)

Saving:
(https://i.imgur.com/G5RSq1D.png)

Potions:
(https://i.imgur.com/jp9WBi9.png)

And Weapons/Armor:
(https://i.imgur.com/wG2P3Z9.png)

There's still a bunch to go, and I still need to come up with shopkeepers for a few of them.  But it's going well enough.
...Also the shopkeepers are just still images right now.  I'll have to think of ways to animate them that don't look super-weird.


...Onto enemies, I reworked the enemy system into what will be (I hope) the final setup.
Now there are different tiered categories of enemies, with a few of the categories being element-based, according to what environment you're in.  And each category has four different enemy types.
Both higher categories and stronger enemies require more skulls to access.
(https://i.imgur.com/R0GJYBv.png)

I finally got around to animating the Projectile Trap.  It really gives it a lot more life:
(https://i.imgur.com/zJjC0pQ.gif)

The Hive is as intimidating as ever (especially when there's five of them on a screen):
(https://i.imgur.com/MT1cZx5.gif)

And I got a simple enemy scripting system up and running, so it's a lot easier to implement enemy behaviors, like for this dragony thing:
(https://i.imgur.com/JU6r90Y.gif)

So... it's been going!

This is looking really nice! 

:blink: O :blink: wow!

One of the best things to happen on TIGForums is if you get an unexpected update from a devlog that has been slumbering :coffee:

Love the colors! Very unique and cool!

Very good art and animations. Posting for follow!

Looks great! I love this style. What are your plans for music?

I still fondly remember this!

Hope it gets revived at some point in time. Early access?