TIGSource Forums

My good friend and I, as some of you know, are working on a PC Role-Playing Game- formerly known as Zak LeRoi, which is the name of the main character until we worked out the story and came up with a name. We are naming this project The Lost Keys of Alraith. Here's the single-paragraph spiel my partner wrote up:

As with any day we begin it by waking up. Zak LeRoi, a young peasant villager in the rolling hills of Alraith wakes up to the sound of crackling fire and whistling wind. He finds the village charred black and reduced to ashes. Zak's memory is all but gone, he remembers one thing: He was there when the fire erupted and the culprit he'd seen commit the crime was King Rizya, the king of Alraith. There were only a few survivors from the fire, none of which were Zak's family... he leaves the destruction and swears vengeance under his breath, "King Rizya must pay."

We welcome any constructive feedback! We'd love to hear great suggestions, and more than that we'd love to use great suggestions.

Note: the old thread is at http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=25300.0, and if this project sounds interesting to you we'll first and foremost post updates on our blog at http://play-dd-games.blogspot.com/

i think you should put this in devlog or feedback thread, and you can change the name on the old one, so you don't really have to create a new thread about that.

TBH we don't have anything to show yet, game-play wise...I was more looking for a discussion of RPG elements, my bad if that wasn't evident in the OP.

As far as RPG elements go, the moment I saw 'young peasant villager ... finds village destroyed... vows revenge on...' I mentally pressed spacebar through the rest of the background.

Might be a good idea to read through some RPG cliches lists.  Preferably not with the intention of copying them.

Hm...ok. That's certainly something to consider, we'll see what we can do.

I think you might get more useful feedback if you put story and background discussion aside and concentrate on what game elements and mechanics you want to feature.

What one element of gameplay do you want to focus on?  Be it combat system, leveling, strategy or tactics or exploration, etc. this should be what you start with and iterate on most.  Playable prototypes and trailers that show your gameplay will help you sell your game to potential investors, developers, and customers.

What do you want to do that you haven't seen being done in other RPGs, or that you want to do better?  I don't mean this in a dismissive "if you haven't got anything new, get out" kind of way, but more how you can sell your game to people who have "seen it all".

Basically, I'm suggesting drill down to the one thing you want to showcase, then use your story to showcase that.  For example, if the one thing you think Zelda games really need are huge dragons that are whole levels (that move while you're running around on them), then your intro probably needs a huge dragon, not an evil king.  Just as an example!

OK, thanks. (sorry for my slow reply, btw)

I think one of the main elements we're going to focus on is memory - when the game starts, the player doesn't remember very much. As he progresses throughout the game, he gains memories and eventually, at the end of the game, remembers everything. What we want is to have the memories be playable levels. Like, when you beat a level, the screen goes wavy and a new level shows up - very linear, it's all kind of handed to you, but you're still playing it and choosing, kind of. Do you think it would be better if it was just a cutscene? My partner and I have both noticed that we tend to tune out during endlessly long cutscenes, and we're hoping if it was playable it would be at least a little bit more engaging. What do you think?

Playable memories is definitely something worth exploring. Chrono Trigger had a very memorable playable memory scene involving Lucca and her Mother that could effect the present. Perhaps depending on how the player acts in the first memory, it effects what options they have available in the next or which characters will appear?

That definitely sounds like something worth focusing on.  In that case, you want a story opening that leaves the player wondering about the character's past.

The classic 'lost memories' ploy is, of course, amnesia -- your main character wakes up not knowing who he or she is, but other people believe your character is important, to the point of wanting to kill him or her, or steal something he or she has, or give her something of great value, to be taken somewhere else, etc.  Then there's the 'false memories' ploy.  Your character might always believe that things have been normal, but then strange things begin to happen that can't be explained.

I don't think you need to worry about memories being linear.  The important thing about memories being playable is that the player is an active participant.  You could have puzzles to be solved or combats to be won. (or lost, if you want to say the enemy has beaten the player in the past, reinforcing the enemy's menace)

So, armed with this notion, let's go back to Zak LeRoi.  What if, instead of him having the convenient explanation that the King of Alraith had done the deed, he doesn't remember who did it-- maybe it looks like he suffered some kind of concussion-- and things are arranged so that it looks like he had some involvement in the disaster?  Now he has to clear his own name.  In the trial, maybe he has a flashback that allows him to remember King Rizya.  But since it would be insane for the King of Alraith to burn his own village, the Low Justice decides that he's clearly deranged and sends him to the mines to labor until he dies.  Somewhere along the way, he gets a chance to escape, and off you go with the story.

theRayDog, I'll be sure to check that out, I've never played Chrono Trigger myself but I'll look into it.

(spoiler alert)
Wow, Lynx, thanks, these are great suggestions. The way we were kind of thinking things to be is that Zak wakes up, figures some stuff out and hears from some people that a man in a black cloak, riding a noble steed, committed the act. Ergo Zak (somewhat rashly, admittedly) assumes that it was the king, and goes on a quest to avenge his village; however, things don't add up, and from the memories you learn about Zak's past, his dysfunctional home life, et cetera. When you finally fight the king at the end of the game, he tells you that it was you the whole time; which makes things make more sense to the player. It's a little weak right now, and has a few kinks to be worked out.

Now now, you can't have it be the player who did it, especially now that you've put it in a post. :)

But an interesting tack to follow would be allowing players to shape the ending by the choices they make in memories.  You could have the player deciding whether to be obedient or rebellious, turn in a childhood friend who wants to rebel against the King or join with their cause, and so forth, and these could alter what the player finds-- when he runs into a rebel camp, will they attack him or welcome him?

The key to this is respecting your player's choices.  Your player is assuming the role of Zak.  If he has been acting like a nice guy all through the game, he may legitimately wonder if he is suddenly informed that his character is a disaster-prone trouble-making brat who set it on fire to kill his family.  He might be more willing to accept it if it is presented as a well-meant accident.  And if the player has been acting like a jerk, then maybe he should have the opportunity to frame someone for the incident and get away scot free.

You can still have players visit the same locations, but with totally different motivations.

More spoilers;
The way it's going to be presented to the player is, in fact, as a well-meaning accident - coming from a family where he's always been second fiddle to his very successful brother (who you get to fight as one of five main bosses), in an attempt to "show off" as it were, to show his family he's actually good at what he does (pyrotechnics are Zak's field of choice), he tries to put on a surprise firework show. So he hides somewhere (to make the surprise better) and sets off the fireworks; however, a horrible accident occurs and he ends up destroying most of the village, and killing his family who happen to be nearby. Said explosion also knocks Zak out; he wakes up, the game starts, he doesn't remember anything but the king running away (being the coward he is), he assumes it's the king and sets off on his quest.

Shhh.   :ninja:

You may want to avoid spoilers!

Yeah, I probably should have spoilered that, or just sent it to you in a PM; anyways, what do you think of the story?

I'll bounce back a PM, I think!

Thanks, 'preciate it.