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I'm looking forward to both new titles.

If you have differing opinions, fite me brah.

I am in no position to convince you otherwise (even if I do have criticisms for the game). Bloodtained: Ritual of the Night looks pretty fucking awful in a lot of ways, and yet I am looking forward to it (also, I actually really liked the Castlevania 64 games).

(http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/040/447/Haters_gonna_hate.jpg)

So yeah, carry on my friend. :coffee::toastR:

lords of shadow is the best selling castlevania game in the history of mankind

I can't wait for both of these games, and the fact that Metroid: Samus Returns is now less than 2 months away from release is AWESOME!!! I don't think any of us thought they would be releasing it that soon after announcement.

august 7, 2016, less that one year ago
japanese exec 1: "those americans sure love that metroid shit"
japanese exec 2: "why didnt they buy metroid multiplayer shooter game, they like shooters"
japanese exec 1: "dont know, lets hire some western freelancer team to make some shit for those dum pigs. Are Comcept available?"
japanese exec 2: "no, they are somehow working on 7 project and every japanese AAA game thats about to be released. I have that mercury stream contacts since they got that game on that 3ds though"
japanese exec 1: "cool"
next morning, Spain, Mercury Stream programmer bedroom:
"Wheres that Mirror_of_Fate_final.unity at?"

how can there be a metroid prime 4 if 4 isn't a prime number

Because Metroid Composite 4 doesn't roll off the tongue?

Well, 1 isn't a prime number either. They've been toying with us since 2002.

There was never a game called "Metroid Prime 1" however....

The first one simply stated that prime numbers existed. The other two gave examples of prime numbers. The fourth one is just a false statement, just like the announcement of this game.

There is one problem with Metroid, it is directed by child-friendly Nintendo.

If you want not-child-friendly Metroid, you can check out Axiom Verge.

You can't morph into a ball in Axiom Verge.

Explain.

Also, Axiom Verge may have a little more in the way of gratuitous effects (at least compared to 2D Metroid,) but I'd hardly consider it a major step up from "child-friendly" Metroid, whatever that means.

In short:

The only mature themed Metroid game is Super Metroid. Despite the very limited resources it had to work with Super Metroid established a mature atmosphere, the visuals and sound tried to convey nuanced details. The bosses were vicious creatures which were supposed to terrify. Take a conscious look at that and compare it to Metroid Prime for example. What do we have here, dumbed down "dudududu" soundtracks (few are not too bad though), empty environments, oversaturated colors, poorly defined enemies which look like blobs.

You didn't get very far then.

Using a drone might appear as an original replacement for the morph ball, but there are fundamentally different aspects to it. Besides, I don't like the mechanics in Axiom Verge in general.

*axiom verge spoilers*

Eventually, the drone becomes functionally identical to the morph ball.

*spoiler over*

Also, why don't you like Axiom Verge's mechanics? I'd be interested in knowing.

The drone cannot become functionally identical to the morph ball. Only boring level design can force it to be functionally identical, in a cumbersome way.

Why can't Metroid crawl?

I'm gonna spoil the game for you, but since you didn't answer my other question and since you seem uninterested in axiom verge anyways, I'm not gonna feel bad about that.

You eventually get the ability to teleport to your drone, which not only makes the drone functionally identical to the morph ball, but extends your movement options because you can teleport to it in midair. You even get an upgrade that lets you shoot your drone really far, which extends movement even further.

Does that count as "boring level design" in your book?

I know. But you are lacking mechanical understanding. It is still not functionally identical to a morph ball. The fundamental difference of a morph ball is that you don't break dynamism, you remain the same actor and don't split yourself. This allows for deeper gameplay in regards to the main actor himself, potentially (I am not saying Super Metroid lives up to its potential, but it introduces powerful principles so many fail to see and elaborate on). But it is not like Axiom Verge cares about that. The mechanical interactions are flat, and so is the combat.

Look at it this way. A transformation of the same object remains one single, but deeper continuation. Splitting yourself into multiple objects increases your quantities but ultimately reduces depth of a single one by breaking continuation. Given that you are not playing Starcraft (where you have rough control over quantity of units), but a game where you have full control over an actor instead it tends to result in more flat gameplay.

But you're essentially shooting yourself out of your own gun. Sure, Axiom Verge's conservation of momentum is practically non-existent, but the drone does allow you to do some mechanically interesting stuff that you wouldn't see in a Super Metroid or whatever.

Axiom Verge's thing is not mechanically deep combat (and neither is Super Metroid), it's about variety in gameplay options, a dark existential theme, and the exploration of an alien world. I recommended Axion Verge to you because you seemed to be interested in dark themed metroidvanias.

And yet we argue about what counts as a morph ball or not. I'm not continuing this conversation.

You asked me. I told you. Btw. I didn't say I haven't played it. I said that I don't like it.

Well, that's too bad.


Which is a boring world because everything is mechanically flat.

If dark themes alone don't make you enjoy a game, then don't complain about new Metroid games not having them, and don't cite the lack of dark themes as the ONLY flaw with modern Metroids, because someone might do something as atrocious as recommending you a dark themed metroidvania.

Child-friendly themes imply child-friendly gameplay in Nintendo land.

Yeah, you wipe out aliens in Metroid...not exactly kid friendly.

You mean those blobs with oversaturated colors, yeah I am not afraid of aliens :P

j snake again proves himself to actually be a group of bees on a typewriter

For real though, the original Metroid II is a game about genocide.
You go to planet SR388 to KILL ALL METROIDS.

Then you accidentally become the 'mother' to the last Metroid, as it hatches and Samus is the first thing it sees.
THE LAST METROID IS IN CAPTIVITY, THE GALAXY IS AT PEACE.

Nintendo is ostensibly the Disney of video games, but occasionally they have games with darker themes.

---

Also I very much enjoyed Axiom Verge. Idk where the hate is coming from, it's a great game.

the last metroid is not in captivity... Trap Them

How much time would you spend in the toilet to compose this statement without Mark Mayers help?

I've certainly had my fair share of differing opinions (I for one didn't particularly enjoy Axiom Verge,) but I feel like we're nitpicking here. I hardly consider the Metroid Prime series "child-friendly" because it has oversaturated colors, to name one of the points. Metroid Prime 2 in particular stands out to me in terms of atmosphere, particularly the wasteland and swamp areas.

Don't get me wrong. I am not hating on it. I just don't like it. If you can immerse yourself into it, that's great, more power to you. I just need certain mechanics and challenges to go along with it, exploration alone doesn't do it for me.

Hey now, J-Snake is a real stand up guy, by which I mean he makes me want to stand up and leave the room! Ha ha ha. But in all seriousness, J-Snake, you know all of us here wish you well. As in, we all wish somebody would throw you down a well!

In all fairness, that is where for me "open world" games lost their luster. At some point all their mechanics started to blur together and while I do crave a really good open world game there is only a handful that really are mechanically entertaining to me.

Sometimes a game is just missing that special spice you're looking for even if it's got the right flavor for everyone else.

Yeah, that is often true.

I don't think Nintendo is even able to produce a game with mature content as their mentality is conditioned to stay within a child-friendly bubble. They perceive every idea through this mental filter and that is reflected within all their games. I guess it happened to be an exception that they had someone with a mature vision for Super Metroid who is long dead now. And I can imagine his vision wasn't greatly received within his own company.

Here is the Crocomire fight in Super Metroid. Just recall how detailed and terrifying he looks and sounds. Then take a look at these Metroid Prime bosses. What are those? Child toys? Take a look at the boss 22:20, is this chunky toy supposed to make an impressive entrance with that dumbed down monotonous music? This is not how vicious creatures look like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONxKm8uApSc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj6SO2WMA7s

j-snake i dont know why you posted "i eat ass" fifty times but to answer your question: metroid fusion is better and darker than both

don't forget even  at the beginning of super metroid there's dead everywhere.  SNES had some pretty dark and gruesome games on it for it's time, clock tower is still a fantastic horror game. ....though for some reason even with that they wouldn't allow mortal kombat to have blood..

Weird joyless men like J snake who complain bitterly and at length about video games being "child friendly" are ironically less mature than most literal children.

Me, stupid millennial with a funnily named brain disease: Hurr durr i dont think blood and violence necessarily make something better. Give me participation trophy nao

Cool, erudite 45 year old with the correct opinions about childrens entertainment: Heh, triggered much? Need a safe space LOL? Anyway, I think Barney the Dinosaur should have eaten all the children on camera.

where samus tity

I like classic Nintendo game Killer Instinct

J snake experienced a spiritual and political awakening at age 12 when he tried to get rob the nes robot to jack him off

So wanting more interesting and more immersive games makes you less mature. Explain to me that logic.

On that note, however, everything that you don't want doesn't become less immersive or less mature just because you don't want it, dissenting tastes does not mean you have to roll your eyes at everything that is not your flavor (which is a pretty immature thing to do for someone claiming to seek mature things).

I think maybe you've backed yourself into a corner debate-wise (I've been there plenty of times), which is probably why this thread has progressively become J-Snake character assassination spree (which is fucked, mind you, but you're not helping things). I can see where you are coming from on the topic to a degree, Nintendo definitely has the child-friendly air about them but that does not by default mean that everything coming from Nintendo is childish in nature and bright saturated colors do not mean child anymore than dark mute colors means adult. On a technical, mechanical level most of the games Nintendo builds can be equally appealing and challenging to a child or adult (both in mechanics and in themes).

The problem isn't that Nintendo can't build "mature" games for adults, the problem is that Nintendo is apparently not making games that appeals to one adult (I assume) in particular, you. Which is absolutely fine, you are entitled to your tastes and thresholds for whatever reason you have them and there is nothing wrong with them, I imagine they will probably guide your creative efforts well, but it is not a good idea to try and hold them up as if they are the standards by which everyone should be applying things. Maturity is knowing your boundaries, that is why parents spend much of a child's early life teaching them not to get angry when the world doesn't conform to their thoughts and wishes and instead teach them to accept and adapt to the differences.



Anyways, all that said, I am not really impressed with the new Metroid games. Nintendo has a weird way of going through waves where they make a few really good games and then they absolutely butcher a series and then a few more really good ones come out and then its back to more butchering. I think Metroid's been on the chopping block for a while now.

Lol,ok, look. I am not telling anyone how they have to enjoy their time, make whatever works for you. And I am not even saying that child-friendly games are bad or don't have a right to exist, that's nonsense as there can be value, not only for children but also for adults. For example I love Mario Kart and I have a blast playing it with friends. All I am saying is that not all games are greatly suited to be shoehorned into a child-friendly bubble as they simply don't reveal their intended potential. And that's the case with Metroid. And I know I am not the only one who is feeling this way. Someone asked, I explained. But I am not going to justify myself everytime to teenagers who aren't able to perceive a message without bias. If they perceive me as a weird unpleasant dude, then so be it, but it really does tell more about them than it tells about me.

"teenagers"

even programgamer is at least 20. rj 24. schoq 30.

the reason i perceive you as unpleasant is because you make asinine arguments and then constantly backtrack and go "that's not really what i was saying, if you weren't such a stupid child you'd know that"

The problem is "child-friendly" is a really subjective term in this case. It is not as if they've reduced Metroid down to the level of Teletubbies or dumbed down its mechanics. The real problem is that the series, especially mechanically, really isn't moving forward anymore. Look at Zelda: Breath of the Wild, it's not that they made the game more mature it's that they've brought new mechanics to the table. The game is still "child-friendly", that didn't stop it from introducing more interesting things into the gameplay.

You're not, at least not entirely. As I've just said, I too think they are squandering serious potential I just don't agree that it is because of some "child-friendly" straightjacket that is doing it, I think it is just lazy design work (and in the case of Samus Returns shoddy presentation and execution).


I don't think you're weird or unpleasant, I just think you're making a faulty argument and you're stuck on it. That's fine, it's a discussion not a personality contest. I don't know who you are assuming is the teenager here (I am halfway from 30 to 40) but the reality is of course much worse, we're a bunch of adults debating the child-friendly-ness of Metroid on the internet. Right now we are all Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons.

(http://15149-presscdn-0-14.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Comic-Book-Guy.png)

Let's try something different and go the other way with this: if it were in your ability to do so, how would you make Metroid more mature?

Reminding admonition to be respectful and decent.

I don't. Many people in a debate make the fallacy of assuming an unnecessary extended context which really isn't there in a debate, which is called bias. And it is not exclusive to teenagers. So they fail at being rational where it counts. I don't backtrack or twist, only elaborate: I said the problem with Metroid is child-friendly Nintendo. I went on to say that they try to shoehorn every game idea into a child-friendly bubble. So as a logical conclusion then is that it happens with Metroid too. But where did I say "the problem with EVERY GAME is child-friendly Nintendo". I offered no basis where this statement logically follows. So it is objectively your bias and irrationality that makes it up.

all you ever need is to be nice and friendly
all you ever n-oops is to oops oops oops oops

j snake i think the issue we take primarily comes from the assumption that metroid has any problems stemming from child-friendliness whatsoever (they really don't); thise same arguments made by you are very analogous to arguments made by babymen who want more bloodgun, so i think it's pretty fair to read that context you're pretending doesn't exist

you don't live in a vacuum

im either case, metroid, no, will never be an r-rated gorefest, but also it doesn't need to be. the game isn't about that. pushing its envelope too much in the wrong direction would distract from where the game's actual horror lies- samus's absolution of loneliness in a cold world. these games are existential horror wrapped in sci-fi exceptionalism and they aways have been, especially in the cases of metroid 2, prime 2, and fusion

this is also part of why other m suck

let platinum make a metroid game

To your information, Super Metroid took strong inspirations from films like Alien in regards to its atmosphere. I recommend you to play/reply that game to recall how its atmosphere actually feels like, and then put it right to Metroid Prime or the later game-boy versions and feel the difference. Now given stronger hardware than snes Super Metroid would certainly be closer to the intended vision, but you could see well where the tone was going (means it didn't look like a typical Nintendo game). Of course, in case you are a person who is not very perceptive for atmosphere then there is not much point debating it.

Metroid OtherM will make you happy then.

There you go again.


"I'm not backtracking or twisting, just 'elaborating' by changing my argument." If you're going to sit here and blame me for "inferring" that you're saying that child-friendly gameplay (or Nintendo gameplay) is less mechanically nuanced than games with mature themes, it's on you. You can't just spit out what you have and then later add "context" and then blame us for not reading it how you wanted. Not that I believe your backtracking is your original intent.

I even wanted to bring up how much deeper mechanically games like Tropical Freeze and most Mario games are compared to AAA games with mature themes, but I knew you'd just backtrack and try to throw it back at me that you don't care about mechanics only "immersion" which is essentially meaningless and subjective. Or you'd argue that those games aren't mechanically deep. I don't even know what you actually value because it always seems to change to serve your argument.

You can keep sitting back under your guise of "rationality", but eventually people are just going to stop engaging with you completely because it's just not worth the effort. I mean a mod has to step in and tell us (probably me) to be decent, but you can just sit there and hurl remarks like and You are not more rational. You just pretend you are.

I don't think he is arguing it needs to be a gore fest or gritty FPS or whatever, he might just be having trouble nailing down exactly what the feeling is. If you look at the early Metroid games they had a kind of dark atmosphere to them, like something out of Aliens. The games were moody, to a degree, and you got the feeling of desolate isolation they were trying to convey:

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ISmrNlOMHMw/UTls3LaoWXI/AAAAAAAAAFI/UC4yVmfcu3Y/s1600/Metroid-NES-review.jpg)

(https://r.mprd.se/media/images/69197-Metroid_II_-_Return_of_Samus_(World)-3.jpg)

(http://images.eurogamer.net/2014/usgamer/supermetroiddc-spot1.gif)

With the GBA Metroid games they kept the isolated feel but they started drifting away from the moody environment schemes to something more colorfully "Nintendo", maybe an after-effect of Samus being in Super Smash Bros. The games also started drifting away from their difficulty levels, becoming much more accessible to a general audience. The Metroid Prime games did a decent job of trying to capture some of the feel of the first games, but with the latest Metroid games they have moved into being more accessible, more colorful, and more action-focused than being exploration and experimentation-centric.

(http://www.freeroms.com/roms_screenshot2/gba_metroid_-_zero_mission_2.jpg)

(http://img.game.co.uk/ml2/6/9/6/6/696641_scr3_a.png)

I think that may be what J-Snake is getting at (or maybe I am completely wrong). I think by "child-friendly" he means the Metroid games have been progressively made more accessible, more generally appealing (with their Nintendo-ified color schemes), and have lost their (maybe niche) original appeal for a lot of people (the Castlevania series also comes to mind in that regard). They feel less creepy "sci-fi" and more action cartoon-like.



:handmetalL: Oh fuck yes!!! :handmetalR:

EDIT: My post got all fucked up, lol. I had to fix it.

This is how I feel as well. That being said, I find it interesting how different people latch on to different aspects of a game, to the point where mentally the game's entire identity is wrapped up in that single element. I think one great example is difficulty, and I can sympathize with this one even if I don't always agree with it on a case-by-case basis. Tweaking "foundational" aspects can feel akin to video game sacrilege.

That being said, save for maybe the last couple of entries, I don't feel like Metroid has strayed very far from what made it a great franchise. I'm also genuinely interested in "Samus Returns" as well. But I'm also not a "diehard" Metroid fan, so I guess take all of this with a grain of salt?

you have to take into account that gba games were given a brighter palette to account for lack of a lit screen on the handheld. playing gba games in emulators is not the same experience as it would've been at the time.

I know, I had the games on the GBA (handheld, not emulator). But that doesn't quite hold up because I also had the original Metroid on the GBA too, and there was no problem with its visibility either.

(http://jinjabobot.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Lista-Juegos-GBA-classic-Ne.jpg)

The context is obviously Metroid from the beginning. I am not twisting anything in. Yes, I want more immersive games, and more immersive Metroids would provide them. Where do I say child-friendly gameplay is generally bad? I don't want it in a Metroid game. Take a look at the boss fight footage in the new Metroid Returns remake for example: Feels very simplified and gamey to me. Do you expect vicious creatures to behave like that? And the overall visual style isn't atmospheric anyway. So gameplay and aesthetics can go hand in hand here.


Your claim is essentially "Nintendo gameplay" is mature because it can be deeper than the gameplay in some mature themed AAA games. But a mature theme doesn't imply mature gameplay. So you make a logical fallacy. Of course I care about mechanics, and I don't see why I have to twist any argument.

i didn't play the gba version of metroid because zero mission existed, but from what i can research the palette of the nes port was different not that i can verify it or determine how much impact it had on visibility
(https://tcrf.net/images/c/ca/NES_Metroid_Enter_Your_Password.png)
(https://tcrf.net/images/8/8c/Metroid_ZeroMissionVersion_PasswordEntry.png)
this is from the unlockable version in zero mission. the classic nes cartridge might be different, but from what i know about the nes palette it was never really set in stone because of how tvs worked anyway.

regardless i don't think it detracts from my argument. i'm trying to find the article i read recently on the palette from fire emblems before and after lights were introduced in the handhelds and it's very noticeable. it might've not been necessary, but it was something nintendo did, and it still affects how many gbc and gba games look today now that backlights are everywhere.

Yeah, that's right.

The point was you make the same fallacy in the opposite direction.

You captured it well with "cartoon-like". And "more generally appealing" by going cartoon-like is actually what is mind boggling, given that the game actually wanted to live up to an Alien-like atmosphere, and I think that is where it would live up to its full potential as mature gameplay can be combined with mature atmosphere. So "more generally appealing" actually means "more appealing towards the younger demographics", I would assume.

What I am saying is that if the Nintendo game has a child friendly look to it, then it has to have child-friendly gameplay. Haven't seen exceptions at least.

(Btw. as a contrast, this is not true for my puzzle-game Trap Them. It looks a bit cold and dry but it has a child-friendly look to it. Yes, I even removed blood, as ridiculous as it sounds, after few requests for the kids. But it does not have child-friendly gameplay. In the beginning it looks like it has as you have room to successfully toy around with relative ease. But later a high degree of abstraction and conceptual thinking is required to succeed. And that is an area where children lack. Mario can be hard in terms of dexterity but those are natural skills children develop, it doesn't require a high level of abstract thinking in order to be played.)

holy cow i finally found the gba palette comparison i was talking about
http://cyangmou.deviantart.com/art/Pixel-Gameart-101-04-687587548 (http://cyangmou.deviantart.com/art/Pixel-Gameart-101-04-687587548)

maybe it's not really relevant but it'd be interesting to do a similar study between metroid fusion (before sp) and zero mission (after sp). metroid zero mission being a remake/reimagining of the first metroid probably makes it a little bit more difficult to compare as different setting compared to fire emblem being just here's the grass and trees in this game vs the grass and trees in this game.


Edit: nice edit

gba ports of snes games usually looked both brighter and less saturated than the originals.

comparison here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP4mAPpQ_HY

It's not about the brightness, it is about the choice in color palette. The GBA Metroid games use a more vibrant color scheme, something more along the lines of a WayForward game. The GBA games themselves were still good, they still managed to create some interesting atmospheres, but my point is they moved away from the more grittier look of the first three Metroid games. The palettes are more poppy.

Some of that choice may have been motivated by the issues of the GBA screen, sure, but I think primarily it is just in line with the shift Nintendo has made to give their characters and game worlds a sort of unified color range which has worked great for games like Super Smash Bros. (etc.) and also for selling their Amiibos and whatnot. Nintendo games are becoming very identifiable by their color palettes and how all the games seem more and more to be staying within a certain color range (especially their saturation levels and hue warmth).

(https://fangirlsarewe.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/supersmashbros.png)

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-Tiz1LL7ik8/maxresdefault.jpg)

It is not necessarily a terrible thing, I just think it has kind of driven the Metroid series away from its roots color-wise and mood-wise. For some this is preferable, for others not so much.

J-Snake, all I wanted you to do originally was justify why you felt that, despite having dark themes, Axiom Verge was not fun to you. Instead, you decided to argue about the drone in AV being inferior to Metroid's morph ball and going on about theming.

Also, I'm no teenager. I don't know why that's relevant to you, but I'm a young adult, as someone else pointed out.

I was going about theming in Metroid because it was an important point that has been discussed here. I really don't care much about Axiom Verge so I mocked that you can't morph-ball in this game. But since you insisted on it and I like discussing mechanics, I added few slices of thoughts regarding that. I still study the flaws and missed potential in Axiom Verge. It is at least a lesson for me how to not make a metroid-like game. So in case I decide to go for it, I actually want to create a Metroid-like game, not just a metroidvania.

Anyway, child friendly nintendo that has been shoving idea about death to all children, I mean mario galaxy is about discovering that a mother is dead and that the galaxy will die at the end ...

Let's not talk about the fuckery that is OOT and MM, especially majora's mask, it's all about dead people, coping with pain and death and even the seemingly happy ending don't wash everything (hello deku butler). Even other game have dark implication when you start thinking about them 2 seconds because they have fucked up canon lore. There is a reason people are so into "deepest lore". Nintendo don't hit you at the visual gritty looks, they hit you with existential dread.

About Morph ball, fuck axiom verge, TURRICAN IS WHERE THE COOL KIDS ARE (have a morph ball). But if you want to discuss the dynamic of transforming into ball conserving momentum, that's sonic for you, I know there is a lot of similarity (labyrinthine level, doing a spin jump attack, running fast, going into a ball to get into tight corridor).

THAT said Anybody who know the metroid canon know that Samus had a prover left for unconfirmed dead, wait for later metroid bringing that point back because they need a new daddy adam malkovich, given they have been sexing up samus armor since other m (and even more in the new 3ds game), they really want us to not forget samus is a "girl".

No my friend, the true power of morph-ball belongs to me, that means to my version of Metroid. It will show you how real traversal puzzles and combat-usage looks like.

As long as it is in 3d, ie not backward.

Also that sweet c&d letter in the waiting, don't forget to post it

I see great untapped potential in 2D here. My version of Metroid is of course in spirit, not in skin. Nintendo can't copyright morph-ball.

Find a good visual designer too, right now you are not in a good place :P

In spirit I am a billionaire, in skin I am eating budget mac'n'cheese. One day our spirits will be set free and we can play your Metroid while eating gourmet mac'n'cheese on my yacht made of gold. One day.

So much talent wasted in 2d game, that's being lazy

Smelling a hidden Trap Them joke:P

:handshakeL: >:( :handshakeR: Don't you speak ill of 2D!!!  :handpointL: :noir: :handknifeR:



 :(



 :'(

y u not like 3d?

this thread is pretty bad, just letting u all know

Duly noted. I've sent a memo to corporate.