i'd like to re-underline the irony of anyone getting mad at being called nerd by me and focusing on that over any other argument i may be doing, because this is exactly the nature of this subject, only the "insult" or source of feeling-bad is a lot more important than someone named the monster king calling you a nerd

like use this energy to see how other people would feel, i guess

I feel like this argument has devolved into you guys calling each other names, then nitpicking over the smallest opinions.

impmaster not only is this false, but an empty post like this does nothing to help the situation. please say something on topic or don't say anything. what do you think about rape depiction in a video game

What a cop out.

I would not presume that rape victims themselves would even agree on what's "tasteful".

ding ding ding you would probably presume right

I don't care if you criticize bad art, I'm just here to say your criticisms are worthless and won't change anything. All you do is piss people and yourself off and argue online with people you don't know who will never be sympathetic to your ideas, and that's all you will ever amount to.

dont project on me noob, ive had people pm me that they were glad i was saying stuff like this. if i matter to one person im happy! who are you trying to matter for!!!

i dont know what tasteful depiction of rape is, but i trust someone who has experienced it to know a lot better than anyone who posted in this topic

it is not for us to say

uh i've been really really nice this time, i've said the nerd-word a few times but most of it was explaining why it was super harmful to put rape in games. again, you guys are just focusing on me calling people nerds.

stop getting offended ; )

i told you i was making an inclusive game, but im allowed to do more than one thing and i am not going to write forms asking for your opinion on how to make it better, especially considering it's an issue you don't care about

All I'm saying is that if you posit that trivialization is the key to whether something is allowed or not, you're saying mentioning rape should never be allowed, in any case. It can almost always be arguably a trivialization. Fine if you're saying that, but just being clear.

no, im saying dont depict rape unless you know what the fuck you are talking about and not just a little, and if you wanna talk about rape make it tasteful and not an action video game scene

Certainly they won't feel "different" and "not fun" if they aren't even aware, and they would probably appreciate not mentioning it in their presence. Not that I have a Jewish friend.

Gross jokes are gross jokes. Doesn't mean they can't be funny. I can recall some instances that were damn funny to me - and again, it's subjective.

of course they can be funny, else people wouldn't say them at all. but this is not about you, or the other people who find those jokes funny

even if your hypothetical jewish friend would never know about it, it would still make this atmosphere of "oh no s/he is here we cant have fun". you will make them different to the rest of people. you will make some people, "people who i can make every joke around", and those are gonna be the REALLY COOL ONES and the other ones are gonna be THE ANNOYING ONES WHO ALWAYS PLAY THE RACE CARD.

except spoiler it's really easy to have fun without making sexist/racist/homophobic/transphobic/queerphobic/etc jokes!!! stop making fun of minorities. geez!

I think you need to pick up a dictionary before you use words in such a way. There can be black, poor, female nerds, because nerd doesn't mean all the things you claim and attack, not that they necessarily need to be attacked over it anyway.

and i think you need to read all my posts instead of getting mad about the nerd part! you are correct in the fact that nerds can be of all groups though.
obsession makes the nerd. when you are so obsessed with your video games (or other nerd target of obsession) that your enjoyment of them is more important than respecting other people, then you're being a gross nerd. don't do it!! you can enjoy things without being a nerd about it
nerds ALWAYS get mad about being called nerds, because ironically they always get mad about what they are being called while simultaneously being SUPER MEAN to other groups. dont be hypocrites!!

You make a lot of good points but (off-topic for a second) can I just say one thing, that what you say comes across a lot better when you aren't tearing people down. I know you may feel it's necessary, but people (dumb nerds, whoever) will be more receptive to your opinions when you aren't treating them like dirt. Not saying you have to respect their (our) opinions, but if you calm down on the hateful hyperbole it will do you more favors in the long run. The angry and loud tone doesn't do you a whole lot of favors, is all I'm saying.

thats kinda funny comin from you, heh. i think nerds deserve to be torn down, first and foremost because they never hesitate to tear down others themselves, also because everyone needs to be scolded once in a while. like thats what is flying above a lot of nerds heads is that, comparatively to what happens to minority groups, I'm REALLY REALLY NICE. this issue doesn't touch me personally at all, im an adult white hetero man/monster who can afford to buy videogames every so often. i speak because i like yellin' and care about what happens to other people, and nobody should have to be nice to people who arent nice. that's one of the many "male privileges" every nerd hates hearing about, to feel like you are entitled to ask other people to play nice but you never do it! and when you are talking about something that directly touches other people but not you and they are mad and then nerd goes like "whoa let's not get EMOTIONAL here" it's super insulting, a lot more than me calling a nerd "nerd". nerds always get mad about the nerd. stop getting offended!!! derp

I agree, that's why I asked for eva's and other people's opinion on my game "A Good Husband". I didn't want to fuck it up and offend anyone, because the game wasn't meant to provoke or be offensive. cactus may feel different about that, and his scene may be intentionally provocative. It's not something I would do, but when making art I don't think it's fair to demand that artists cater to my or anyone else's feelings or disorders or whatever. And I don't think game developers have any such obligation to be inclusive if they don't want to be. Paul says they do, but only in the sense to make more money. Which I don't feel is the completely right attitude to have about works of art.

I agree that it's harmful and disrespectful, but in the end I think it's inevitable and is something we just have to deal with. The world isn't fair or nice, and humans especially aren't. Pretending that the world is a wonderful magical happy land where everything is inclusive and everyone is equal and nothing bad happens just isn't realistic, and never will be. It's an impractical goal, and I just think it isn't worth worrying about.

why wouldnt you help if you could help it though, and a lot of people just dont understand or are aware of these issues.
like is it really important that your main character is male only? i dont mean for your game, im assuming that one called "the good husband" probably is, but im saying that giving you a simple character creator for games where it doesnt matter probably helps a lot. mass effect and saint's row get a lot of praise for that, for example

Why don't you spend your time making things that you want to see, and support things you want to see get made. Don't you think that will have more of a positive outcome than spending an inordinate amount of time on some internet social justice crusade? Ranting on forums with only a few hundred readers? Games like dys4ia and Depression Quest and similar titles that deal with social problems will reach a wider audience than you or eva's posts ever will, and you both have enough talent and enough to say to make things of that caliber and more.

Instead of demanding change from other people, I just think it's more fruitful and beneficial to be apart of the change. Instead of arguing and bringing people and their art down, why not try to educate them instead of ridicule them? Tell them why their work is hurtful instead of calling them hateful bigots or mra supporters.

i like arguing, tho ahahaha
also i have affected people in the past and i will again. it also helps me think about things, and i am sure it will help others, even if just a few. i could ask you the same thing, why bother telling me this when you could work on your game! except i have even more reason to do it, because i want to affect more people, not just me and eva

also i am making an inclusive game. you will see it if i finish it i guess ahahahaha.
but it's always ok to discuss and talk about things, and not everyone has the tools we have (to make games that are inclusive).

----

am i a white knight game inquirer
will you love me if i white knight
yeah drop the white knight thing, like just dont say it. that shit's mad stupid

Would you say gun violence, gore and other sources of trauma can be trivialized because it doesn't specifically target an ethnic or gendered group in spite of the fact that it affects no small amount of people in the world, including the developed world? It's certainly dehumanizing to 'virtually' kill people, but we tolerate it, simply because it doesn't seem to offend our sensibilities enough. If 'offense' is really what it comes down to, then it should be a simple matter of self-segregation of those who are offended, from those who aren't. This is partly why comedians get away with everything - everyone knows before hand that they can expect potentially offensive material.

comedians shouldnt "get away with everything" though
like i said earlier i dont feel very good about war games because its usually "USA USA kill not USA people w guns!!" and because, as you say, some countries still are war-torn and people die every day
other than that though i think most scenarios involving gun violence in video games are either super detached from reality or genuinely global in their treatment or both, like in GTA you can kill everyone but you dont get special moves to do to women or slurs for people of different colors or whatever; everyone gets dead equally from a maniac's rampage. of course, gta has a bunch of problems of its own, and the whole fuck-a-prostitute-kill-a-prostitute is of course super gross but those are two separate actions i guess.

 As for trivialization - I dislike it when it happens insofar as this refers to a meaning that "rape is okay", but any usage of rape can arguably be a trivialization (and it is to some), so if potential occurrence of trivialization is a no-go (which can be up to interpretation), you couldn't ever bother.

you are talking about "couldnt even bother" as if there was this slew of people who had really important things about rape to say but couldnt because they are super distant from it but those people don't exist

When we tell holocaust jokes without hesitation, we tend to be pretty sure potentially sensitive Jews aren't listening. It's a case of knowing your audience. Hm2 now seems to be absolutely dictating its audience with this coverage.

telling gross jokes when the people who could be offended by it aren't listening is still gross, honestly

because you are making them "different" and "not fun", by making your so important holocaust only available to you and the other precious people who do not have that baggage when they are not there

the feeling becomes "oh we cant have any fun now, a JEW is in the room"

and nobody likes to feel like weird like that, especially not because of what they were born as

Because the rest of the violence can be just as traumatic for people if they survive

yes but the violence is usually treated as the main aspect of the game: war games are about war, but there is no rape game, it's always a cheap plot device
correct me about rape games if you want, i am sure the ones you will name are going to be very respectful to women and not the grossest porn ever ahahahha

don't pretend like it's some nebulous concept only women who've had first hand experience are familiar with, when it's just as easy if not easier to obtain information about rape than war.

i didnt, but i am saying that the way you relate to it becomes a lot more attached to your gender. i also very much doubt that the rape scene in hotline miami has very much to do with actual rape, unless the words "finish her" really do appear during gross shit like that

and because of how detached we, as men, can be from the subject, on top of how different people already deal with it in a myriad of ways, it can be hilariously(except no one laughs) easy to fuck it up and make a bunch of people hate you, and you would deserve the hate, because you approached a really complex, emotional, painful,  disgusting subject with the same way you approach powerups and game secrets and high scores, and that is disrespectful to real people who don't matter any less than you do

of course a bunch of nerds think that their precious respect is earned, see bolded text where i call out nerds on thinking that their opinion is a magical important powerful thing
i guess the plot twist ending is that no one wanted their respect in the first place because they are mean assholes who already gave it all to an anime visual novel or whatever

That's a very logical argument.

My only problem with it is that if everyone wrote fiction on topics that only they were 100% familiar with, it wouldn't really be fiction. However, I guess that is neither really here nor there in this situation.

nobody has any experience with laser swords and dragons
it's not a real social issue that affects millions of people a lot worst than others
it's a made-up thing and on top of that everyone deals with it equally
so yes you can make a game about it

real wars are a thing and i dont think everyone on the call of duty team has been in an actual war combat situation, however it's very easy to do research. Also, every person in a combat situation is pretty much treated the same, in call of duty's case (unless the new one makes women have different stats or whatever, which i doubt) every soldier is pretty much the same and can do the same things. imo war simulators are a bit gross but that's for another discussion

its really all about the difference of power and the dehumanization, making certain people "different" and less or not important

your mind can make the difference between the power structures of the situations, as well as the links they have to the ones we find in the real world

wait, so we can understand everything else, but rape?

if you're a white guy you're probably not the best person to make a piece about experiencing racism in the USA, for example

like yeah you can try and understand it but probably never experience it, and even though rape COULD happen to a man, you can't experience the world's opinion on rape and your body the way women do

[YOU NERDS ARE HELL TO DEAL WITH AND YOU PISS PEOPLE OFF AND YOU ARE UNLIKEABLE AND IF YOU WOULD JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP AND LISTEN IT WOULD DO A LOT OF GOOD]

whoa okay

so yeah uh

im not sure exactly whats the point of putting a you-do-the-rape scene in, i guess its to make people feel sick about it just like you were supposed to feel bad about the violence in the first game
the parts with the one woman in the whole game already felt pretty weird

imo its a really shitty thing to do, to have a rape scene, especially an animated one i think? in a video game
some really good arguments have been made both by evelyn-j and Gimym TILBERT
namely that the perspective of the artist on the rape seems to be as distant from the actual act itself as possible
this isnt a rape victim's message, nor even a rapist's

this is as far as i understand it (and like Gimym said) a "look at how dumb this is!" while still making the same dumb shit, just as an (even more) exaggerated version of it probably with a twist ending or whatever idk


also saying that he should put whatever he wants as artistic integrity is kind of a completely empty argument, why do you participate at all if all you have to say is "he can do whatever he wants people should shut up"
like if all you have to say about it is that you dont care what other people think or feel then why bother participating in a discussion at all

this topic is about what it means to include a rape scene in a superviolent intentionally gross arcade action game. What's the message it sends, is it the best way to explore the subject, is it a good way to explore it at all

in the same line of thought "it's just a game!!! why do people even care" is a stupid thing to say because it's not exactly a secret that people are influenced by media, and if games are "JUST GAMES" why do you, the whiner, would even spend so much time posting these posts about games? it's just a game... don't write on tigs go do something IMPORTANT instead wow



like it's really hard to have these discussions without getting mad when there's a bunch of nerds saying shit like "waaa feminism are trying to ruin videogames" when the point is just to try to get people (mostly men, duh) to understand what very common things ruined video games for a bunch of people, most of these being women

but often mra nerds just end up trying to silence people just because like evelyn-j said they are trying to have video games as a "safe" place for them where they can escape and see and live whatever crazy gross fantasies they have without having to be judged or criticized, because being an adult is obviously too hard for them, and of course the big irony is that they dont care at all about other people's escapism let alone enjoyment of video games and always end up saying shit like "well if they dont like it they can leave!!" and then complaining that there are homosexual romance options "pandering" to gays or whatever. man i hate nerds


of course we'd need to talk, sigh, again, about how rape is different than other forms of violence because it's dehumanizing torture (ok all torture is dehumanizing but i guess this one underlines that part even more) mainly targeted at specific groups of people (women. i said mainly. rape also happens to men and should never be trivialized, and it is, usually by making fun of the man to have something happen to them that should happen to women only (haha should happen to women ahahah. fuck you, people))

getting cut in half by a magical samurai sword is not something that any one group of people have to live with (except me because i am the monster king and humans try to kill me with magic swords all the time) so even if your game features extra gory decapitation you're not going to disenfranchise a minority group, because members of the video game audience all deal with this violence in roughly the same way.

rape on the other hand is something that almost only affects women, and it affects them a LOT in the real life of the real world, and considering how video games already have this "GUYS ONLY!!" stigma and nerds still have this "love it or fuck off and die" attitude which makes it a huge pain for people to criticize anything and im guessing a lot of them don't talk about it because YOU NERDS ARE HELL TO DEAL WITH AND YOU PISS PEOPLE OFF AND YOU ARE UNLIKEABLE AND IF YOU WOULD JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP AND LISTEN IT WOULD DO A LOT OF GOOD and it just isn't worth it for people who would otherwise REALLY LOVE playing video games to go in and say "yeah, i loved hotline miami but the rape scene made me feel sick" because they will get brushed aside as best or get "you should get raped" comments at not-best.
So they either learn to shut up and enjoy videogames regardless of the gross parts, or decide that they aren't worth it. congrats nerds you have made women shut up!!!! clap clap


edit: I'd like to add to the bold part that YOU ALWAYS END UP BELIEVING THAT YOUR OPINION IS THIS DAMN MAGICAL PERFECT SNOWFLAKE THAT IS IMMUNE TO EVERYTHING BUT YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND THAT YOUR THOUGHTS, COMBINED WITH THOSE OF ALL OTHER GROSS NERDS, ARE ACTUALLY HURTING REAL OTHER PEOPLE WITH REAL ACTUAL FEELINGS AND THEY DON'T MATTER ANY LESS THAT YOU DO AND IF DRAGON'S CROWN DIDNT HAVE GIANT FUCKING TITS AND SOFT PORN IN IT THOSE PEOPLE WOULD LOVE PLAYING IT WITH YOU


--
anyway yeah i dont think playing as a maniac who violent-cartoonishly rapes a woman is the best way to explore the subject in a video game.

http://www.angelfire.com/anime2/antism/quiz.html

ahahahaha what the fuck question 29

Your score is 35.5 out of a possible 100.
That means you are exactly 35.5% obsessive.

Dr. Miewth’s interpretation:
You are officially obsessed.

On a side note, you chose 1 of the stupid / silly answers, out of a possible total of 32. Gotcha! That makes 3.125% of your answers stupid ones.
That is good, you made very few stupid decisions.

anime anime anime

hey its not fair if you dont do it tho

like i said earlier, the "you could be caring about something more important" always feels really nasty to me, like... why arent YOU caring about something more important, then? why are you posting that instead of going to super poor communities and making the best difference you can make

like we can't all help in the same way and there's also different things we want to do and it's fine

and while im not sure why paul eres needs to make a weird top ten of gender issues, women's (and other minorities ofc) representation in media IS a very big social issue, because if you have seen people you probably have noticed that they are affected by the media they consume immensely. And even if it was THE LEAST important gender issue (if there could be such a thing) it would still be ok to talk about it geez
like "YOU COULD DO BETTER/MORE IMPORTANT" is never a good argument but especially not if you aren't personally doing better and more important

id also like to remind you that the author (anita sarkeesian) likes video games, so ofc it would make sense for her to wanna talk about it

these are the funniest stretch goals

man i wish i could just ask nobuo uematsu to use his name on a page and split 300k$ off the asses of nerds

"The game draws you in with its breathtaking fantasy world, deep storyline, Japanese character designs, and a memorable cast, most notably, the band of heroes under your command."

japanese characer designs

for purchase? man fucking pop in an emulator and im sure you will have a better experience playing suikoden2 or whatever jrpg nerds' favorite game is

hm yes i see convincing explanation

superb joe you are being very unfair to the game

for example wouldnt you be super inspired by a song called

"the orcish clans"
or "dwarven war"
or MY personal favorite, "battle"

like you go on and on about how this is a cliche'd J A P A N E S E role playing game when you could just be allowing amazon to take 60 of your precious powerful american dollars and give it to them in exchange for a phoenix hatchling who will follow you in your wonderful, WONDERFUL adventures in the captivating world of azuregard, where MANY tiny footed elven archers wearing the SHORTEST DRESSES await you


why do you need a cape to identify you as project phoenix founder in a single-player game and why does it cost 35$

superb joe i am assuming you are one of the two lucky "bosses" who will get to have dinner with the devs

wow what an imaginative and interesting archer girl design


ahahahah the 80$ bonus is an in-game mount