Avadon: The Black Fortress, if you're into old-school RPGs. Also, the rest of Spiderweb Software's superb (if somewhat samey) back catalogue.

Benedict Cumberbatch. Duh.

My GOSH yes this game was awesome! Me and my brother played it all the time. "My" character was always Ed. And yes, it was Monkey Farm Software - we used to laugh at their title animation but of course in retrospect it wasn't very funny.

Half English, half Cypriot. Grew up in Wales so I gotta bit of that in my too (dwi'n siarad cymraeg wrth gwrs).

So.. you're looking for an RPG were the player has no objective, he's just there going with the flow huh? I don't think there is an RPG like that, sooner or later you gotta have a macguffin.. how would you make a final boss without it?

Maguffin ≠ Objective.

There are countless games which use the oh-so-simple objective "kill all the baddies". No maguffin needed.

Somebody needs a few classes on marketing.

I agree, and in fact so does he. He says so frequently on his blog. Good job he has fans like me to post it on forums eh!

Personally I'm more tired by the way most RPGs involve the world (or universe) being imperiled. A plot that had an obvious MacGuffin to provide the longterm goal would still feel relatively fresh to me just so long as that MacGuffin wasn't involved in the fate of the world...

If an RPG simply started with the protagonist being asked by a friend to help get a bag back and the game ended when the bag was recovered, without the contents ever being specified beyond the fact that they were important to your friend, I think that would actually make me happy.

I think at least a few Knytt Stories did this.

The One Ring is a very well thought out maguffin indeed, but it's still a maguffin, in my opinion (it could easily be replaced with the One Hat of power and, while making it considerably more silly, wouldn't fundamentally change the story). But don't get me wrong, a maguffin isn't always a bad plot device. Lord of the Rings is an excellent example of a maguffin used well.

However, the term MacGuffin literally means "the driving plot element" so technically the Princess and ultimate victory are both MacGuffins even though they aren't inanimate objects.  The only way to have no driving plot element is either to have an incredibly complex plot (i.e. oversaturate your game with MacGuffins so that none are really that important) or to have no plot at all.

Only in the context of the "quest" archetypal story. I'll try and explain by giving example:

Here's a story that uses a maguffin:
Timmy was playing with his ball in the yard, when he accidentally kicked it over the fence. Unable to climb the fence, Timmy went and asked his elder brother, Derek, for help and he told him he would retrieve the ball only if Timmy did his chores. So Timmy did Derek's chores and in return he climbed the fence to get Timmy's ball back.

And here's a story that doesn't use a maguffin:
Derek bullies Timmy because Timmy gets more attention from their parents and Derek feels jealous. Confused and upset, Timmy confronts Derek one day and they have a heated and emotional argument ending with a fight. Eventually they are both bruised and exhausted and they stop and talk over the issue. They return home where they both get in trouble for fighting, but they're happy because they have resolved the issue and are both in trouble together.

The plot device driving the first story is the ball. You could replace the ball with any item that needs retrieving, be it a frisbee, an item of clothing off the clothes line etc. and the story would be relatively unchanged; Timmy would still have to complete Derek's chores in order to get the desirable object back.

The second story is driven by the relationship between the two brothers. This isn't a maguffin because it's irreplacable and not a tangible thing.

The first story goes hand-in-hand with gameplay: there is a task that needs to be competed in return for a reward, which is why it's far more common in games than any other kind of story. Whether or not bad guys that have to be defeated count as a maguffin is debatable.

Spot on Chris!
"Hey guys I'm bored. Let's pop down to Mordor to drop a ring in the volcano!"
"Any particular reason why?"
"Um.. It'll look totally cool..?"
 

But seriously, MacGuffins have their place in stories and they're not always a bad thing, I just get bored of them sometimes.

How about Vampire The Masquerade Bloodlines? Then again, you could argue the Ankaran sarcophagus is the mother of all MacGuffins.

Actually I'd reserve that titles for Lord of the Rings. Or should that be "the one MacGuffin to rule them all"?

That's a nice list to be getting on with. Thanks!

There's one thing that has always bothered me a bit about RPGs, JRPGs in particular.
One of the main draws of an RPG is its story, and so many RPGs use maguffins* as plot devices, which I see as weak storytelling. I can't speak for the Final Fantasy series, which despite being the second-bestselling JRPG series I've never managed to get into due to its mechanics.

I was wondering if anyone could recommend a good RPG with a story that doesn't revolve around a maguffin.


*I would define a maguffin as an arbitrary object that the plot revolves around, be it something that needs to be retrieved, destroyed, stopped or rescued from destruction etc. An example might be fragments of the Triforce in The Legend of Zelda or Horcruxes in Harry Potter. Here's an "official" definition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacGuffin

I'd totally rock Cave Story on the DS! Problem is, I don't have a DSi, only a DS Lite

I was planning on holding out for the 3DS...

I'm in the same situation. Still, I've been wanting this ever since the fan port was started.. then Nicalis came along and made them stop. Hrumph.

Also, here's a source confirming that you can transfer all DSiWare games to the 3DS: http://uk.ds.ign.com/articles/112/1124179p1.html

[http://www.spiderwebsoftware.com/]

Just thought I'd give a shout out to any indie RPG fans out there: the crowned king of indie RPGs, Spiderweb Software, is having their regular October Blues sale, only this time they're also celebrating their fifteenth birthday!

I'm a massive fan, so I just thought I'd spread the word a little.

http://www.spiderwebsoftware.com/

I'm surprised you didn't mention the original games.

Ha, well I'm not a very old person, and I only played the first two generations on an emulator, so I don't have a lot of nostalgia for them. I think our preference in Pokemon music is largely influenced by the point in time that we were introduced to the franchise.

Fair enough, I won't deny that nostalgia plays a part in my preference. Here's versions of the same songs you might be more familiar with:



(spoiled the impeccable timing at the beginning if you ask me )

Hi,

I'm ashamed to say that my first post on this forum was an advertisement for a game (to spark up interest from potential contributers, not to sell anything!) and I've only just found this thread.

Anyway I regularly read the TIGSource blog and have always loved indie games before I even knew the difference between indie and commercial. I'm interested in game development, particularly gameplay design and soundscape design, though I've never made anything beyond some experimentation whilst trying to learn Construct and musical contributions to open-source projects.

I'm a big fan of atmospheric side-scrollers like Super Metroid, Ecco the Dolphin and Knytt. My favourite indie company is Wolfire cos their blog is awesome.

If I were to design my ideal game it might be a 3D first-person action platformer (a la Mirror's Edge) set entirely in the sky, aboard giant airships, zeppelins and floating cities. The player would have full freedom of movement, with non-linear environments, and exceptional climbing and jumping skills, but being in the sky you would often have to battle strong winds. There would also be some combat of some kind, but you would always be massively outnumbered or outgunned so it would be extremely tactical and you would have to run away most of the time.

I've also always wanted to make an enormously detailed and huge sci-fi sim with both flying around in space and running around on planets and in cities. It would take a development team of hundreds at least a decade to make (and might also be massively multiplayer).

Yeah I'm a bit of an idealist, to say the least. But that's me! Hello!

I've always liked the idea of DF but never managed to get into it because of its interface. I sincerely hope that toady takes a few leaves from this guy's book (or the Goblin Camp ends up being as complex, detailed and fun as I've heard DF is).

I'm surprised you didn't mention the original games. They have by far the best Pokemon soundtrack imho! The original Trainer Battle music was the best battle music because it so perfectly fitted the battles (the ding sound you got when the trainer you're battling moved into place is timed perfectly with the music, and the track properly kicks in as you actually start battling) whilst also being interestingly composed.





And your rival's theme is easily the most badass of all rival themes. The "Oh s***!" moment as you hear this music is always accompanied by an "Oh yeah!" (I always let this music play for a bit before starting the battle).





Both themes were, of course, remixed for Fire Red and Leaf Green but my nostalgic side will always prefer them in their 8-bit glory.

Oh man I love video game music! I would even like to go into video game soundscape design professionally one day, if I get off my arse and get employed.

I'm not sure if any of these have been posted cos I can't be bothered to read the whole thread, so I'll try to keep from posting anything too obvious. Here's some favourites:



(catchy and psychedelic - a nice break from the dark, moody music of the rest of the game)
Within a Deep Forest - Adventures (mp3) (adventury and old-school!)


(8-bit for the win)
Pokemon Red/Blue/Yellow - The Road to Cerulean (it has a fantastic adventury feel to it that epitomises the game for me)
Braid - Undercurrent (the tense moment when you hear this track played forwards at the end of the game and you get the horrifying revelation...)
Spyro: Year of the Dragon - Super Bonus Round (one of the best game soundtracks ever composed. nuff said.)
C&C Red Alert 2 - Hell March 2 (f***in' badass!)
Metal Slug - Stage 1 (for some reason I just can't get enough of this track!)
And possibly an all time favourite:
TETRIS!

No mention of Metroid? It's the game that (arguably) started the whole solitude/isolation feeling in games.

On-topic, I don't think you can call "solitude" a genre any more that "fast-paced" or something.